Kleene Onigiri wrote:
Parkur wrote:
How the hell is giving the BO amazingly overpowered abilities "good balance"? I personally think the game was perfectly fine before these killing actions. Nobody (outside of schillok sometimes :x) ever said that the BO or the town was too strong, this only started because of the killing actions. I was gonna take them out completely, but I wanna see if some level ground can be reached by restricting them a little. If anything, people just wanna make the BO overpowered.
Schillok, Akonyl and me wanted to make the BO stronger, in order to balance it.
Pofa liked the killing actions too, besides maybe the sherry one.
So I wouldn't say "Nobody" :p
And it's like pofa said. People will say what they think about the changes and suggest stuff. But it's up to the GM what he does in his round. The next GM will probably change things again.
Well, there is always room for improvement in this game. I liked the killing actions (despite being town all the games) because it achieved several things that make the game better IMO:
1) It allowed to reduce the number of BO and still having them have a chance to win.
Too many BOs means the town has hardly any room for mistakes (misslynches), and with several members the BO is faster in finding out town roles to poison them - which usually means a quick end for the game. One the other hand, too few BO means that they were not able to compete against the many townies. The lack of members makes it much harder to find out roles, makes poisoning slower - the town just overwhelms them.
2) We could have "overpowered" BO abilities.
Yeah, the killing abilities are strong, stronger than any regular ability (well, in most cases...). However, this is already balanced by its own, because only one BO can kill each night. This prevents unpredicted combinations of those abilities and also makes sure that one ability can't be used over an over again (unless it is the last BO).
3) It made it matter who is killing.
Before the BO did not have to care who they sent out to kill each night. With the exception of Pisco and the two snipers all the others were pretty much the same. Deciding on who goes and kills just based on who can stay without appearing "guilty" by X-examination and who was less likely to get tricked offered a lot less of depth than an unique ability for each BO member.
4) The BO roles get more unique.
Well, with the new killing abilities the roles are also more different from each other. Depending on which BO are in the game, the game plays more different. Also, the town has more reasons to find out which BOs are in the game. (Does Kir still have Betrayal? I think she was not in the game for a while now...)
5) They are easy to tweak.
If we really find something that does not work or is too strong we just have to change one killing ability.
6) It gives the BO still a chance after losing some of their members.
Once the number of BO gets too low... well, we had that already: Less BO means less actions to find out townies to poison and less actions to mess with the town to slow them down. The killing ability somehow compensates for this since it gives the BO an extra ability, no matter how many of them are dead already.
7) If only 1 BO remains he/she still has a chance to win.
Usually the BO has lost when there is only 1 member left. However, with the killing ability getting used over and over again that last BO might still have a chance to deceive the town and kill enough townies to make a turnaround...
8) It makes defensive town roles matter more.
Tricking, Healing and protecting the correct target is hard. How many think "Yay, I got a defensive role!", when they got Ran, Eisuke or Araide? Now, since preventing the death of the target also stops the killing action these roles should be a bit more attractive, since they can have a huge impact on the BOs play.
So.... yeah, I really liked their introduction, I think they are a good addition to the game (no matter what side you are on). In the end a GM can change them how he/she wants, but as a player I would prefer to keep playing with them.
Not like you have to listen to any of the suggestions, since we've agreed to play anyway whether you take our suggestions or not.
no worries, a mastermind does not use the same trick twice 
)
