Mafia Round 16 - Yarrharr~ (BO wins!)

[Kleene Onigiri]

Conclusion:
BO was lucky, Town was not, Lovers not lying good enough XD lol

Lucky? Nah, people just trusted us way too much.

I wonder why *cough*PT*cough* it seemed I only see BO actually discussing and deducting... overall Besides Abs. who was killed soon after

True. Most people that were discussing were the BO. Of course, abs, schillok, yurikochan etc. were too. But the BO still was more talk active D: Surely, that made them more trustworthy too ^^

Anyway, I'm quite satisfied with the BO now. The BO can actually try to infiltrate the town more now, and I planed to make less BO, but because of BO/town lover, I gave them Dus :V

Also, I think the town can be modified a bit too. Like the revenge think totally killed the last officer available. Maybe, since they have abilities now, we could exclude arresting with that? Dunno.

And Akais "protect" also helps out the real protectors. But healers have a hard time. ANd the protectors too. So maye 1 healer more and 1 protector more for the town roles?

Also, MAYBE changing Kir  a bit to make her a bit better. But dunno. Since she's actually pretty good when she's in a ally I guess.
But I'll tell more tomorrow *goes to bed*

[Eve]

Yeah, I was astounded at that, too, though maybe my stall with the DBs helped my case. (Though this is the second round I've pulled that, so I doubt I'll ever be trusted by them now. )

don't worry pofa, I'm sure the next time you pulled it, you'll be a real townie

[pofa]

Yeah, I was astounded at that, too, though maybe my stall with the DBs helped my case. (Though this is the second round I've pulled that, so I doubt I'll ever be trusted by them now. )

For the record: when I was a DB and you pulled that, I knew you were BO before we ever identified you.

Good for you, PT. I didn't have a lot of options.

[Dus]

And I was surprised virtually no-one voted for pofa on day 2.

Except YOU, Dus. And Edo.

Yeah, I was astounded at that, too, though maybe my stall with the DBs helped my case. (Though this is the second round I've pulled that, so I doubt I'll ever be trusted by them now. )

You weren't on the chop last time, though. You had actually been interrogated as NOT BO before. If you hadn't meddled we would have lynched a townie.

[pofa]

And I was surprised virtually no-one voted for pofa on day 2.

Except YOU, Dus. And Edo.

Yeah, I was astounded at that, too, though maybe my stall with the DBs helped my case. (Though this is the second round I've pulled that, so I doubt I'll ever be trusted by them now. )

You weren't on the chop last time, though. You had actually been interrogated as NOT BO before. If you hadn't meddled we would have lynched a townie.

>_< *tries to forget that round ever happened*

[Schillok]

I agree that 8 BO was a lot; I totally didn't expect to get Dus. But it's also true that Edo was screwing us over and would have continued to do so if we hadn't killed him ourselves--he was the one responsible for no one dying on Night 3. And by the end he was lying about what he'd stolen from people, so if we'd listened to him we'd have run out of APTX more quickly.

Which would also mean that the game would have been even more one-sided if Edogawa wasn't a lover...
I wonder how Kleene decided to make Dus a BO anyway. I mean, at that point she knew all the roles, disguises, lovers, etc. already.


Well, I have to calm down. This game felt so... unsatisfying. Frustrating.
So before I make more bad accusations and continue to insist how unfair this game was I should take a break.  

Update: Ohh, a new post... I will take the break later...

I disagree. There was a BO/town pair. Which is against the town and BO, so the BO was actually just 7man strong.
The town was quite balanced too. Interrogators, investigators, observe, even house search and identify.
Like I said, the town had bad luck and used it on the target that was killed. Or some didn't use their actions at all or did it completly randomly. As a town, you need to be careful and not blindly tell your role and trust someone blindly. But also, you can't simply just be passive and be in no contact at all.

The BO managed to gather information quickly, since almost everyone of them was in contact with someone. So, even with just 7 people(with 1 lover), I think the BO would have done good enough. Tho maybe not have won so fast.
Also, you guys didn't believe breva, tho breva didn't explain herself good enough after she already hinted to the BO that she did a Day action, which pointed towards Kogoro.
And the BO found out quite a lot of stuff and took the risk of APTXing. At the same time, a lot of good interrogations were around. So I couldn't make obvious hints for either side.

Well. Exactly as you said you have to be careful and you can't be too passive at the same time. But when a 24-people game ends during day 4, something went wrong.

Especially with the new APTX rule you have to be even more careful with your role. And not to forget the BO having 4 slander (2 Gin, 2 Calvados) per night, their new observer and whatever options Vermouth and the new Irish open for them. I have no idea how the BO found out so many of us, and I am sure they did some good work (and people were just too trusting) gathering those information.

I guess there was some bad luck involved, loosing strong roles like KID and Haibara right in the beginning. But the town never seemed to have a real chance during the whole game. I kow, sometimes things can go exactly the other way around (like Round 14), but usually it is more like this game: They need time to get organized, especially with so many players. Having 8 BO against them and only 16 players - or rather: only 14 players since someone dies almost every time during night 1 and since one was a lover - was too little. Some players being inactive like it seemed didn't help either. And Tequila makes the game even shorter.

[PT]

If we hadn't have had Gin, the game would've been a lot more difficult for us, I think. He was our primary investigator, since Parkur only got 1 investigation a night, plus with slander, it was lucky for us. (And slandering DT on Night 2? Total luck on our part.)

But, then again, we had Edo working against us, too, and though it didn't set us back too much, he could've done a lot worse than he did before he died. I'm actually surprised he didn't try harder to get us all killed.

I think the thing that set you guys back so much, honestly, was that Sakina wasn't around much, DT wasn't around much, Holmes didn't read a lot of the posts, it seems, and one of the DBs was way too trusting. So I don't think it was so unbalanced, just a string of bad luck.

[Dus]

If we hadn't have had Gin, the game would've been a lot more difficult for us, I think. He was our primary investigator, since Parkur only got 1 investigation a night, plus with slander, it was lucky for us. (And slandering DT on Night 2? Total luck on our part.)

What did I investigate though? Pofa's interrogation on night 2 and randomly looking for Kid. Night 2 was similiar. Night 3 confirmed Kain's and eric's actions but we would have killed them off anyway, I guess.

The slander was pretty useful tho, I guess. Otherwise pofa would have been the first two go and then breva would probably have interrogated Akonyl or even nom.

[pofa]

If we hadn't have had Gin, the game would've been a lot more difficult for us, I think. He was our primary investigator, since Parkur only got 1 investigation a night, plus with slander, it was lucky for us. (And slandering DT on Night 2? Total luck on our part.)

But, then again, we had Edo working against us, too, and though it didn't set us back too much, he could've done a lot worse than he did before he died. I'm actually surprised he didn't try harder to get us all killed.

I think the thing that set you guys back so much, honestly, was that Sakina wasn't around much, DT wasn't around much, Holmes didn't read a lot of the posts, it seems, and one of the DBs was way too trusting. So I don't think it was so unbalanced, just a string of bad luck.

Yeah, this time the BO happened to be all people who are online often enough to plan with each other and saturate the thread. If we hadn't been, that would have made the game go a lot harder for us. *experience*

Tbh, the people who are gone all the time are usually the people who don't bother giving a teammate power over their action. So I don't think that's been too much of an advantage for the BO in practice, even if it is in theory.

But yes, this round made me realize how strong Tequila is.

[Dus]

If we hadn't have had Gin, the game would've been a lot more difficult for us, I think. He was our primary investigator, since Parkur only got 1 investigation a night, plus with slander, it was lucky for us. (And slandering DT on Night 2? Total luck on our part.)

But, then again, we had Edo working against us, too, and though it didn't set us back too much, he could've done a lot worse than he did before he died. I'm actually surprised he didn't try harder to get us all killed.

I think the thing that set you guys back so much, honestly, was that Sakina wasn't around much, DT wasn't around much, Holmes didn't read a lot of the posts, it seems, and one of the DBs was way too trusting. So I don't think it was so unbalanced, just a string of bad luck.

Yeah, this time the BO happened to be all people who are online often enough to plan with each other and saturate the thread. If we hadn't been, that would have made the game go a lot harder for us. *experience*

Tbh, the people who are gone all the time are usually the people who don't bother giving a teammate power over their action. So I don't think that's been too much of an advantage for the BO in practice, even if it is in theory.

But yes, this round made me realize how strong Tequila is.

Yeah, the moment I read who my allies were I thought "There's no way we're gonna loose this".

[breva]

If we hadn't have had Gin, the game would've been a lot more difficult for us, I think. He was our primary investigator, since Parkur only got 1 investigation a night, plus with slander, it was lucky for us. (And slandering DT on Night 2? Total luck on our part.)

But, then again, we had Edo working against us, too, and though it didn't set us back too much, he could've done a lot worse than he did before he died. I'm actually surprised he didn't try harder to get us all killed.

I think the thing that set you guys back so much, honestly, was that Sakina wasn't around much, DT wasn't around much, Holmes didn't read a lot of the posts, it seems, and one of the DBs was way too trusting. So I don't think it was so unbalanced, just a string of bad luck.

Eric tried to make your more bad, he wanted Akonyl to be interrogated but I didn't trust him and told pofa so the posibility or another slander was less, you were lucky with DT

[PT]

What did I investigate though? Pofa's interrogation on night 2 and randomly looking for Kid. Night 2 was similiar. Night 3 confirmed Kain's and eric's actions but we would have killed them off anyway, I guess.

The slander was pretty useful tho, I guess. Otherwise pofa would have been the first two go and then breva would probably have interrogated Akonyl or even nom.

Also, you proved Conia as the protector, so that helped.

And also, I wouldn't have been able to fight off DT's interrogation as easily. It made it easy on me because he had previously been interrogated as BO.

But yes, this round made me realize how strong Tequila is.

^ And I'm sure the DBs were just so thrilled to know we had him.

[Eve]

I don't see Schillok's point, There were two interrogators, Haibara, two DBs, and Lovers-not to mention Asami and Eisuke, two tricksters, Kir, Shiratori-House Search/Arrest... not having Gin is going to be "unfair" for BO .... That is to say if townies were a little more active XD

[Akonyl]

Well. Exactly as you said you have to be careful and you can't be too passive at the same time. But when a 24-people game ends during day 4, something went wrong.

Especially with the new APTX rule you have to be even more careful with your role. And not to forget the BO having 4 slander (2 Gin, 2 Calvados) per night, their new observer and whatever options Vermouth and the new Irish open for them. I have no idea how the BO found out so many of us, and I am sure they did some good work (and people were just too trusting) gathering those information.

I guess there was some bad luck involved, loosing strong roles like KID and Haibara right in the beginning. But the town never seemed to have a real chance during the whole game. I kow, sometimes things can go exactly the other way around (like Round 14), but usually it is more like this game: They need time to get organized, especially with so many players. Having 8 BO against them and only 16 players - or rather: only 14 players since someone dies almost every time during night 1 and since one was a lover - was too little. Some players being inactive like it seemed didn't help either. And Tequila makes the game even shorter.

yes, something did go wrong. That was the townies telling the BO their roles and having 5 people die in one day.

Also, saying that the BO has 4 slanders isn't really a good statement to make, because that point will be made, and then later on in the argument, "2 steals" will probably also be brought up. Yes, calvados can give an extra slander or an extra steal, but not both at the same time, and he's only as strong as any other BO member can be.

your "and people were just too trusting" part in the parentheses are the big factor here. The very reason APTX was introduced was to stop people from this behavior, yet people still do it, and get poisoned as a consequence. You can't just ignore the deterrent, lose a lot and then go "oh, things are imbalanced because we got APTXed", that's just missing the point.

The town would have had their time to organize, if they didn't get APTXed so quickly. And you can't just say "it was really 14 townies instead of 15 because someone dies on night 1 all the time", because that's just like saying "a BO will tend to get interrogated on night 1 anyway, because they're a third of hte town and there's usually ~3 interrogators, so it's like the BO has one less member", which doesn't make sense either.

[Dus]

What did I investigate though? Pofa's interrogation on night 2 and randomly looking for Kid. Night 2 was similiar. Night 3 confirmed Kain's and eric's actions but we would have killed them off anyway, I guess.

The slander was pretty useful tho, I guess. Otherwise pofa would have been the first two go and then breva would probably have interrogated Akonyl or even nom.

Also, you proved Conia as the protector, so that helped.

And also, I wouldn't have been able to fight off DT's interrogation as easily. It made it easy on me because he had previously been interrogated as BO.

But yes, this round made me realize how strong Tequila is.

^ And I'm sure the DBs were just so thrilled to know we had him.

Totally forgot about conia. And it wasn't really needed, was it? There's no way you would have been lynched any earlier.