Forensic Science Questions

[Akonyl]

I'd have a question o/

Well, not sure if it fits or if you can answer it D:
But in DC the poison usually used is Potassium cyanide. But I heard that this isn't the best poison to use, since you can track it easily for example. Is it also used a lot in real crimes (in case someone was poisoned) or not then?

Googling for "cyanide" and "murder" suggests yes. I am surprised to hear it is easily trackable. (I'm thinking chemically trackable like cyanide A produced by Sigma Aldrich has x contaminants and ratio isotopes.) Maybe if you have some powder left over, but after it's been ingested?

I'd imagine it'd also just be one of those things where if you buy potassium cyanide, red flags go off and your information is holed off somewhere because it's one of those things normal people don't usually buy.

I think you are overestimating things...

When I see how many poisonous substances most labs have - and if I consider how many labs exist - there should be a lot more people buying such substances than you might imagine. Though, at least for university they are organized by a central department that handles most of the orders of all lab groups. Maybe it might be slightly different if you tried to order such substances in a pharmacy, though.

perhaps I am, as without my own knowledge on the matter what I know is limited to what I see

and yeah, I know that it would be common to find in a lab, but I would hope labs would have some monitoring of their lethal chemicals' traffic. Though, I could be wrong on that.

[Kleene Onigiri]

I'd have a question o/

Well, not sure if it fits or if you can answer it D:
But in DC the poison usually used is Potassium cyanide. But I heard that this isn't the best poison to use, since you can track it easily for example. Is it also used a lot in real crimes (in case someone was poisoned) or not then?

Googling for "cyanide" and "murder" suggests yes. I am surprised to hear it is easily trackable. (I'm thinking chemically trackable like cyanide A produced by Sigma Aldrich has x contaminants and ratio isotopes.) Maybe if you have some powder left over, but after it's been ingested?

I'd imagine it'd also just be one of those things where if you buy potassium cyanide, red flags go off and your information is holed off somewhere because it's one of those things normal people don't usually buy.

I think you are overestimating things...

When I see how many poisonous substances most labs have - and if I consider how many labs exist - there should be a lot more people buying such substances than you might imagine. Though, at least for university they are organized by a central department that handles most of the orders of all lab groups. Maybe it might be slightly different if you tried to order such substances in a pharmacy, though.

I don't think you can simply buy potassium cyanide legally without giving a good reason and being checked.
On the other hand, I got that with just signing a paper and no one cared if I actually used it in the lab or hid some of it in my pocket D:

@chekhov: What do you mean with "ingested"?

@akonyl (who red messaged me): on the really poisonous stuff, they usually check who get's that. But stuff like Sodium hydroxide etc. isn't checked. So no one would notice if you took that with you or another substance, that isn't "very poisonous", but can still damage/kill you

[nomemory]

I asked my sister who is a pharmacist about if they have it in the pharmacies. She says they don't and she also doesn't think that they have it on any pharmacies since it is such a lethal poison. And if someone were to be legally poisoned there are better ways and poisons.

So I doubt any pharmacies have it. At least if we are talking about pure potassium cyanide, I know to little of it to know if it is possible to make your own with stuff that can be found there.

[Abs.]

On the other hand, I got that with just signing a paper and no one cared if I actually used it in the lab or hid some of it in my pocket D:

Noted.  8)

[Chekhov MacGuffin]

@chekhov: What do you mean with "ingested"?

To take into the body, as in eating something or drinking something. It doesn't seem feasible to me to be able to chemically track down who made the cyanide after it's already been introduced to the body.

[kyuuketsuki]

I'd have a question o/

Well, not sure if it fits or if you can answer it D:
But in DC the poison usually used is Potassium cyanide. But I heard that this isn't the best poison to use, since you can track it easily for example. Is it also used a lot in real crimes (in case someone was poisoned) or not then?

Okay, what most people said were correct.... Here is the thing... ALL drugs are traceable, because all CHEMICALS are traceable. This is done on the off chance a chemical WILL be used for a crime. So usually chemical manufacturers put an identifier in the solution they make. So even if it is stolen it can be traced. You could make it, but the original components could be tracked as well... It is very hard to poison people these days without using animal venom.

Truth be told, there are many forms of animal venom, and some are extremely hard to detect. Reason being that they move through the body... Also, if it is obtained from the animal directly.... well I'm sure you can guess it wouldn't be traceable. However... much like chemicals, animal venom for testing is monitored SEVERELY, and though I am not entirely sure... I think some labs add a marker to venom as well...

SO! To make clear some points.... The chemical system that is in place today is very good, it is extensive and there is a code for all chemicals made as well as usually a marker in the chemical itself so that it CAN be traced.

Yes, many chemicals CAN be traced even after ingestion, either by a special configuration, or by way of radioactive isotopes that are safe to humans (relatively). This is part of the reason household chemicals are used more often to commit murder these days than regular chemicals and poisons... Can it be traced? Probably... but each bottle of Clorox does not have an individual marker, so it makes it infinitely harder to trace. Same as animal venom that is obtained not from a lab or a supplier.

Also... red flags go off if ANYONE buys stock chemicals that are outside the realm of the normal areas... you know... labs and educational facilities? As well as hospitals and clinics.... It also helps that chemicals are potentially EXTREMELY expensive... Chemical pricing Mind you... I didn't find the most expensive grade which is called Prime Pure iirc.

Again... this is not actually my area of study, but I do have conversations with people whose concentration is toxicolgy... I hope this answers everyone's questions

EDIT: Just to add a quick something to this... A quick look at the FBI's expanded data table of murder methods shows that poison is SELDOMLY used.

I think the main reason poison is rarely used is that poison would suggest premeditation, and you can't say that you poisoned someone by accident... SO it is murder in the first degree NO MATTER WHAT! Most people don't want to guarantee themselves a life sentence or a death sentence from the get go...

[Kleene Onigiri]

Thanks
So, they use venom from animals rather than Potassium Cyanide (or other chemicals).

On the other hand, I got that with just signing a paper and no one cared if I actually used it in the lab or hid some of it in my pocket D:

Noted.  8)

[ChibiTantei]

I've got a question (though it is more of an experience question than a science question).

You're studying exactly what I want to study (Criminalistics and Molecular Bio), so I'm wondering where are you studying? Or, I guess I should say, where would you reccomend studying? I read somewhere that the courses you take are more important than where you go, is this true?

Right now I'm at a good community college, getting my general ed out of the way (it's nice having such small classes for the basics), but I'm planning on transferring soon, so I am interested in your thoughts. Thanks!

[kyuuketsuki]

I've got a question (though it is more of an experience question than a science question).

You're studying exactly what I want to study (Criminalistics and Molecular Bio), so I'm wondering where are you studying? Or, I guess I should say, where would you reccomend studying? I read somewhere that the courses you take are more important than where you go, is this true?

Right now I'm at a good community college, getting my general ed out of the way (it's nice having such small classes for the basics), but I'm planning on transferring soon, so I am interested in your thoughts. Thanks!

I'll answer this one in a PM, since that will reveal where I am....

[Shin101]

this topic needs more ema skye

[JohnTitor]

Wow, impressive topic. Maybe someday when I need help I will ask here... if you don't mind. 

[kyuuketsuki]

Wow, impressive topic. Maybe someday when I need help I will ask here... if you don't mind. 

Feel free. It's the reason why I created this.

[Vylash]

this topic needs more ema skye

[NightxBaroness]

OMG I should have found this topic earlier!! OMGG

I have lots of questions but i'll make it one by one xD

Im a Nursing graduate and I would like to take Forensic as my field. If I would study it, how many years would I take it? And would Criminalistics be available for Forensic Nursing?

[kyuuketsuki]

OMG I should have found this topic earlier!! OMGG

I have lots of questions but i'll make it one by one xD

Im a Nursing graduate and I would like to take Forensic as my field. If I would study it, how many years would I take it? And would Criminalistics be available for Forensic Nursing?

Question #1: Depends on if you are going for your masters or your Ph.D (Assuming you already have your undergraduate) Like any graduate program, it could take anywhere from 3 years minimum - about 6 (if all goes well for your Ph.D). Undergraduate Forensics takes 4 years like any other degree.

Question #2: To my knowledge... there is no such thing as forensic nursing. There is forensic anthropology, forensic odontology, criminalistics, molecular biology as well as a few others. Naturally there is also being a Medical Examiner...