Yes, but not in the way the BO has them.but don't you think L shares those same abilities? In Death Note canon, he was the greatest detective in the world. It's not completely unreasonable that L could have pulled the same actions that Gin does.
There are two people with a gun. Your average policeman and robber. The average policeman can only shoot for certain reasons. His role is to protect the community from criminals and thus, he cannot do as he pleases. Since, he is a good person and wishes for the best of the community. The robber on the other hand, is a foul person with different ideals. He could do whatever he wants. He could shoot a person, rob a bank, start a hostage, steal a car. Despite these two people having the same weapons. The robber can do sooo much more. Making him faaaar more dangerous. He doesn't care if someone gets shot, to hell with them. While the police on the hand, has restrictions and boundaries which he cannot cross. Your average policeman can't rob a bank or steal a car. During hostage situations, he can't shoot the robber but the robber could shoot him as much as he wants. You see my point? But wait, there's more...
True.No face. No name (Shinichi just calls them "the Organization"). Unknown members. Unknown goals.
Nope, L does not have connections in all these places. Sure, he may have a lot, but they surely aren't as strong as those in the BO. Besides, remember that robber-policeman description I wrote above? Yeah, add that. L's connections in a few of these areas such as Hollywood, media, goverment are NO WHERE close to being as strong as those of the Organization. If L has connections though hollywood/media for "befriend-this-person-or-tell-me-things-about-him/her purposes. These connections are no where close to the Organization's: "kill this person - kill him and take over his identity- tell us about him-befriend him/spy on him - give us details on the people you interviewed/other extra information the media have - tell him to go to this place so we could kill him (this list could go on forever) - purposes. And even if L has some of these connections such as "interviewed/other extra information the media have", they obviously aren't as powerful as the Organization." Don't forget that, not only do the BO have connections to regular people but also to the tops of the tops. They have connections to exectutives, popular actors,etc. While L probably only has connections to lower people who provide information. Not to mention, several people are also under the Organization's control. Not only do they have connections to exectutives and Actors. But they also control Executives and actors.Have a lot of connections and influences in hollywood, the media, the goverment, the police, the FBI, etc).
The BO control much more wealthy/influential people. Unlike L who only has connections. The Black Organization also CONTROL people. Not only do they control a lot of people just because they are members of the Organization but they also control people via blackmail and bribery. Don't forget the good cop - bad cop description.Control a lot of wealthy/influential people.
Seriously, Wendy and Aiber? I know there are probably more but seriously, L doesn't control these type of people. Sure, he may get a couple but these numbers only add up to a handful. Detectives don't really control a lot of highly trained killers since they don't really need them. The Organization have SEVERAL other people like Wendy and Aiber. The Organization have SEVERAL other people who are much more dangerous than Wendy and Aiber in the many different areas. You have snipers, assassins, cold blooded killers, super sleuths, highly trained informats and much more.Control a number of highly trained killers
L doesn't have this.Unknown goal however, it seems to something dangerous especially since one of their projects was said to "set the fate for all of humanity"
L does not have this.By having several members planted in different places, companies and organizations. The Organization could use these positions in order to complete tasks such as assassinations, information gathering, etc.
L does not have this.They also own several companies, companies which are headed by their members, to be exact
a) The Organization CONTROL these people.They have been successful in persuading several influential people to their side.
b) HIGHLY INFLUENTIAL PEOPLE.
c) Good cop-robber description.
Technology that world has not even seen. A perfected sniper simulator? APTX? Wow much? I know it's absurd, but hey, it's anime. Everything is absurd! :D An orange ninja, a killing notebook, a drug which shrinks people, blah blah blah.Use advanced technology.
The Organization can get anything they want as the bad guys. (good cop - robber)They can get anything they want via connections, bribery, blackmail, etc.
The Organization's impressive deducing skills can crush whatever deducing skills the FBI, CIA, SAS, etc have. Seriously, this is a hands down win for the BO. While L as an individual shares the same skills. The Organization is a group and not an individual. They actually go out of their shells and investigate. Unlike L who stays in his room. (Excluding that helicopter scene)Their incredible ways of investigating. (Even without knowing the boy-who-witnessed-the-rena-incident's face or the incident for that matter. Vermouth was still, able to locate that boy and ask him a couple of questions)
Seriously? L doesn't even control people like these. But he can ask help from other local police people in the area/agencies from other countries. Sure he can call for some killers/criminals like Wendy and Aiber but they are limited. The Organization control thousands of these people and are set all over the place. Not to mention, these killers are over the top as I said in the quoted post above: "The Organization's assassins are highly trained in several ways. They have efficient sure-shot snipers, People who are capable of pulling off flawless disguises, cold blooded killers like Gin, highly experienced members who specialize in information gathering and amazing detectives like Bourbon." No Organization have killers as skilled as those. May it be the Sas or interpol, etc. The Organization's assassins are the best of the best.The Organization's assassins are highly trained in several ways. They have efficient sure-shot snipers, People who are capable of pulling off flawless disguises, cold blooded killers like Gin, highly experienced members who specialize in information gathering and amazing detectives like Bourbon.
L does not have this.Control a large amount of highly intelligent and educated scientists who have studied overseas.
The amount of "years" do not matter in terms of the FBI. These executives, directors in FBI, all die and the cycle repeats. The experience level is set to zero. And same goes for the FBI, so both agencies should have the same amount of experience at the moment.SAS, Interpol, FBI that have existed far longer than 50 years
Not trying to be rude here. Tbh, not even close.Everything you listed there, L has as well.
He can't control these people with a flick of a finger. ("Flick" 100 of you military people kill this criminal for me!) And where were these sharpshooters, excellent military personell, etc during the Kira case? And the people he could order around such as snipers from the FBI, sharpshooters, military personell are highly limited. Especially when compared to the Org. Not to mention, foreign agencies such as the FBI need permission to enter foreign countries. Aside from that, the members these agencies bring are limited. While the organization can bring out as many members as they want. The FBI can't just bring 3000 FBI agents in Japan! The people the FBI will send, no matter how big the case, will never reach atrocious numbers like 1000. This is a foreign case and as a Organization there has to be a lot of processing before they could even send a group of agents to another country like Japan. As far as I'm concerned, since the incident is set in one country. It is that country's responsibility of fixing that problem. The FBI may send a helping hand or two but that's it. It's a foreign case and it's not their business.SAS, Interpol, FBI that have existed far longer than 50 years. He has access to sharpshooters, excellent military personell, mucho dinero..
It's not what they did. It's how they did it. Just by looking at the hospital and it's surroundings. The BO have been able to confirm that there are several undercover FBI agents monitoring the area.Regarding the hospital setup, I think you may be giving more credit than deserved...what the BO did sounds like what any military organization can accomplish
These connections are unknown and secure thus, they don't have any serious limitations.their are things the Black Organization just can't do which will limit their investigation.
A) 200 High school studentsAnd Shinichi hasn't exactly disappeared from the public eye - he's made a lot of appearances only to tell people "hey don't tell anyone I was here!" You talk a lot about the Black Oranization slipping in informants to find Kira, but remember Desperate Revival? Shinichi appeared in front of maybe 200 high school students and the only thing Hattori said was "hey don't tell anyone". If the Black Organization is as powerful at intel as you say, don't you think they would have found Shinichi by his stupid appearance? If the B.O. couldn't have picked up clues regarding Shinichi being alive from that, I DOUBT they can even trace Light.
- several of them will keep it a secret
B) Why would the BO spy on a little class play?
C) For the people who won't keep the incident a secret.
- Would people believe them? Why would a person who suddenly disappeared appear in a little school play? Knowing that Shinichi has a massive ego, would people even believe that he appeared and told everyone to keep it a secret? People would most likely pass this of as some rubbish gossip. Everyone knows he's been missing from school and that he's gone missing. His cases have been missing the newspapers and he's no where to be found? If someone told me that Micheal Jackson faked his death and sang Billie Jean for his 8 year old brother during his birthday. Would I believe that? The Black Organization already dismissed the Kudo case and confirmed his death. Why would they even believe a little gossip like this.
D) Let's say, for some weird reason. the BO were able to take this rumor seriously. Would they be stupid enough to investigate even if...
- Sherry's team confirmed his death.
- After investigating his house they confirmed that they were no signs of entry and everything was dusty and untouched just as they went there last month.
- Gin killed him.
- He disappeared from the public eye and cases with his name on it completely disappeared from the news.
- There have been no sightings from him and even people from his school say he disappeared.
Side Note: Thank God Vermouth didn't squeal on the play. If it were Vodka or anyone else this series would have ended in the 300s.
And I believe the Black Organization would have been in the same situation regarding countries backing out. People started to quit once they saw how powerful Kira was and how no one was stopping him for a while. The BO are human also, they fear and get scared - new members would probably be afraid to join with Kira dominating the world. Their resources would dry out as well.
There's no way in hell that the BO would back out on this.I don't understand; how does the BO know Kira is killing supernaturally? Of course the BO would take the first move because Light would probably have no clue in who the BO is at first. I agree with that. But it's what happens after the first move that I'm debating - who wins the chess match.
How does the BO know Kira is killing supernaturally?
1) Several Patterns
a) Only a certain amount of criminals die each day. (And these killings only happen during certain hours)
b) Criminals are the only victims in these killings.
c) Numerous criminals die each day with a pattern in intervals.
d) These criminals are only those reported on the internet, news and the television.
e) Criminals with unknown names are not affected/Criminals with unknown faces are not affected.
f) All of them die of heart attacks.
g) There is a certain pattern each day as if the person is unable to so in certain points of the day. Patterns, fitting a student's life.
h) Even criminals inside prison cells are dying.
2) The definition of God (God is omniscient and does not have any limitations)
- Why would God leave so many patterns after his killings?
- Why does it seem like his powers are limited? (See patterns)
- Why do these killings concentrate on Japan? Only a few criminals from other countries are dying and those criminals are those who are popular. While in Japan, even those criminals who aren't doing much are being killed.
Why Japan? Does God hate Japan? What about other countries? Why does he only kill people reported in the news? Why can't God kill us, the most powerful crime syndicate in the World? Why do our members, who do so many cruel things not die? (Kir, Vermouth or those who are undercover and live good lives on the surface). God can't kill us. God has limitations? Then he is no God.
For me, it's really obvious that these killings are done supernaturally. Considering that the Org's brains are just as smart as Conan.
Word would get out in the Org, that they can't be killed due to their secrecy and the supposed God Kira is no God. The Organization would continue to act in secrecy and continue on their goal. And once that goal is finished, they would go public, announce their presence and unleash Pandora's box on Japan. Then, that will probably be the begin of the Org's face to face battle with Kira. And this is how the Org will beat Kira. (most likely possibility of the Org beating Kira) Now Kira will be faced with a bigger crisis. Instead of fighting a good cop with limitations he is now facing a robber. Leaving Conan and L out of this situation (since if L were present the Org would win and kill Kira before going public). Who do you think would win? Remember, killing a BO member trailing him would only make Kira a target. And that death, would only serve as a marker. So Kira, has no choice but to act innocently around BO pursuers. Now, who do you think would win? I think the BO would win this one.
Kira without L (Take note)
Note: Can we make this debate a bit shorter? I can't reply to this thread during weekdays and I would like to enjoy my weekend too. Thanks. :)
- Majority of the members in this thread don't have DC as their favorite anime. (Reference: Top 10 anime and manga thread or something across those lines.)Meh..that's not very good reasoning - sounds very biased haha. The fact that this is in a DC forum means that DC is far more favored than other manga/anime series - this show is most likely their favorite. It's true that Death Note is probably more popular than DC and more people watch it - but there is less bias if posting this in a general anime forum rather than a Death Note or DC forum. It's like if I posted "what's better, Call of Duty or Halo" in a Halo thread. What do you expect will happen eh? I can say that "currently more people play Call of Duty than Halo so if I post it on a Halo forum, who have members probably have played both, the polls will be more fair".
- Practically everyone on DCTP has watched both DC and DN.
- And I don't really care about DC vs DN arguements because both animes are pretty much tied for the number 3 spot in my stop 5 list. What I care about are L vs Shinichi and BO vs Kira topics because in those topics I really see both Shinichi and the BO winning. And other DN fans out there are vote for L/Kira right away because they view DC as a childish anime and won't even bother watching it. Everyone in any other anime forum is a DN fan while barely anyone watches DC. You have no idea how badly DC is being viewed out there. A lot of people, especially DN fans bash DC for no reason. Barely anyone in other anime forums have even watched DC and it isn't given a fair chance in these contests. I think you, who are obviously a harder DN fan than a DC fan (Just as I am a harder DC fan) should admit this. DCTP, is probably the most reliable source in terms of "L vs Shinichi and BO vs Kira topics (not DC vs DN threads)." Since a lot of us here are mature, quite old (over 14) and are able to put aside, majority of our bias. (every opinion has a bias). But most importantly, everyone here is knowledgeable in both animes.
Tbh.