BO or Kira?

[Introuble]

Well, I don't hate Death Note fans. Just the ones that, you know....
I love Death Note too, almost as much as DC and I don't want fans of both series bashing each other.
It's just that, a lot of Death Note fans bash DC out of the blue. And most of these fans don't even know a thing about DC.
I wish everyone were like you Rachel T_T.

[arielrachel0527]

Well, I don't hate Death Note fans. Just the ones that, you know....
I love Death Note too, almost as much as DC and I don't want fans of both series bashing each other.
It's just that, a lot of Death Note fans bash DC out of the blue. And most of these fans don't even know a thing about DC.
I wish everyone were like you Rachel T_T.

Well, some people are just ignorant in life so there's nothing that we can do to change the fact. But, yes I agree with you. I don't think different anime fans should bash each other when they don't even thought what they're talking about! Just like you have said, if they have seen DC and don't like it, I guess I can understand.

Btw, thanks a lot. I guess we'll just have to recruit more people like us! XD

[kkslider5552000]

Well, I don't hate Death Note fans. Just the ones that, you know....

the ones that are internet "it's popular and not an internet darling, now it sucks" fatties or the people that work at Hot Topic?

[Eve]

Ack, Death Note fans who bash DC are so annoying.

A lot of them aren't even aware of this show's plot.
Some of them don't even know about Shinichi's shrinking and think that Conan is Conan.
They say that L is a better detective since he's facing a stronger opponent when the Org is actually superior (IMO).
Majority aren't even aware of the Organization's existence in Detective Conan.
Majority of those who know of the Organization (which is like 10% of Death Note fans) think of it as a one-two punch (Gin and Vodka) instead of a large crime syndicate.
Practically none of them are aware of the FBI and CIA's existence in Detective Conan.
Majority of them haven't even watched Detective Conan.
Practically all of them believe that Shinichi is nowhere close to L. When it's actually the other way around (crossing out the "nowhere close").
They think DC is an anime for kids. "for me there's no way we can compare death note with that childish detective Conan anime" - some idiot

And some of them, are just too biased to accept the real thing. The only place where Detective Conan can win in terms of "L vs Shinichi" or "BO vs Kira" is in a Detective Conan forum where people are mature and highly knowledgeable in both animes.

This is ridiculous...

Yes it is. But I'm a Death Note fan and a DC fan at the same time though because I love both of them!

Yah, I'm a DN and DC fan also, plus the poll is really subjective, it'll be RIDICULOUS if the vote wasn't biased...

[Girl19]

It's just that, a lot of Death Note fans bash DC out of the blue. And most of these fans don't even know a thing about DC.

Most of the people who bash DC don't even know what DC is. Either they've never watched a single episode or they didn't watch enough episodes. Either way, the're making an unfair judgement.

[Akonyl]

I'm not gonna talk about the rest of your post, but to say

And some of them, are just too biased to accept the real thing. The only place where Detective Conan can win in terms of "L vs Shinichi" or "BO vs Kira" is in a Detective Conan forum where people are mature and highly knowledgeable in both animes.

is really funny to me.

[Introuble]

If only Death Note fans could accept the fact that Conan is at least up to par with L.
I don't care if they think he's better. That's their opinion. The fact that they think that he's leagues behind L is stupid.

I'm not gonna talk about the rest of your post, but to say
"And some of them, are just too biased to accept the real thing. The only place where Detective Conan can win in terms of "L vs Shinichi" or "BO vs Kira" is in a Detective Conan forum where people are mature and highly knowledgeable in both animes."

is really funny to me.

Well, I'm sure majority of the members over here have watched both Detective Conan and Death Note.
I mean, who hasn't watched Death Note? Probably only a handful of people haven't watched Death Note in DCTP.
So the votes over here are more reliable in comparison to other anime sites since majority of the people in other fourms haven't even watched Detective Conan.

[Akonyl]

If only Death Note fans could accept the fact that Conan is at least up to par with L.
I don't care if they think he's better. That's their opinion. The fact that they think that he's leagues behind L is stupid.

I'm not gonna talk about the rest of your post, but to say
"And some of them, are just too biased to accept the real thing. The only place where Detective Conan can win in terms of "L vs Shinichi" or "BO vs Kira" is in a Detective Conan forum where people are mature and highly knowledgeable in both animes."

is really funny to me.

Well, I'm sure majority of the members over here have watched both Detective Conan and Death Note.
I mean, who hasn't watched Death Note? Probably only a handful of people haven't watched Death Note in DCTP.
So the votes over here are more reliable in comparison to other anime sites since majority of the people in other fourms haven't even watched Detective Conan.

a fair enough point. Your post at first just sounded like the typical "I hate talking to Group B people because they fail to acknowledge that what I advocate, as a Group A member, is superior" fanboyish-type mindset.

[ranger]

If only Death Note fans could accept the fact that Conan is at least up to par with L.
I don't care if they think he's better. That's their opinion. The fact that they think that he's leagues behind L is stupid.

I'm not gonna talk about the rest of your post, but to say
"And some of them, are just too biased to accept the real thing. The only place where Detective Conan can win in terms of "L vs Shinichi" or "BO vs Kira" is in a Detective Conan forum where people are mature and highly knowledgeable in both animes."

is really funny to me.

Well, I'm sure majority of the members over here have watched both Detective Conan and Death Note.
I mean, who hasn't watched Death Note? Probably only a handful of people haven't watched Death Note in DCTP.
So the votes over here are more reliable in comparison to other anime sites since majority of the people in other fourms haven't even watched Detective Conan.

Well, the fact that this poll is in a Detective Conan based forum is going to bring skewed data my friend. 

I like both, but I believe Kira could destroy the Black Organization.

I mean, it's a supernatural notebook that kills things!  The Black Organization's not going to walk around and kill anyone they see, they are a clandestine group, so Kira would be pretty much safe.

And, you have to remember, Kira had the world's best detective on his ass who had UNLIMITED resources such as the USA, Japan's entire military force, Interpol, and L STILL died!

The Black Organization, while powerful, can't seriously contend with the entire world's police force.  The thing is the Black Org in DC is really intensified due to the amateur-like portrayal of the DC universe police force - it makes it seem like no one can help out Conan at all and for the most part a good portion of the officers are horrible.

And, seriously, Shinigami eyes man.  That is the greatest weapon ever!  In my opinion, I think it's fair to say that Yagami Light share's the same cunning and guile as Conan, perhaps not the same intelligence level when it comes to cases, as Conan is a specialist and a human library, but I'm sure Kira would be able to find a situation where he can get like Teru Mikami to see the BO members - and boom, game over.

[Introuble]

I like both, but I believe Kira could destroy the Black Organization.

Destroy? You sure about that?

I mean, it's a supernatural notebook that kills things!

With a lot of limitations. The BO as said in my above post can do almost anything!
Plus, Light only kills bad people or people who get in his way. You know, those behind bars, etc. On the other hand, The Organization kill people from both sides. And besides, If one mere disk was said to "set the fate of the rest of humanity" I think that speaks for itself.

so Kira would be pretty much safe.

If you were to pit both groups against each other. Who do you think would win? The Organization have connections everywhere! While, Kira on the other hand can't even move as freely a they do. Kira's moves, actions and choices are subtle and limited giving the Organization a major advantage. Besides, even with the eyes. How will Kira know who is and who is not from the Organization. Remember, due to their several connections and impressive investigatory skills the Organization can find people easily. Let's say the FBI have a couple of leads on Kira. The Organization will send an informat inside and BAM, he's screwed. The Organization could also get to him through his accomplices, who are far more inferior to Kira. Kira has a butt full of weaknesses and limitations while the Organization is pretty much tight. (though they do have a couple of weakspots: Kir and Vermouth)

The Black Organization's not going to walk around and kill anyone they see, they are a clandestine group, so Kira would be pretty much safe.

Sure they are an organization sworn in secrecy but that doesn't stop them from doing whatever they want. Being a clandestine group just makes their work bulletproof. Sure they can't reveal themselves to the public eye but that doesn't affect their way of operating. Did that stop the Organization from barging in that hotel looking for Sherry? Or scheduling an assassination right in an open park? Or, subcutaneously spurring 3 deadly incidents which caused the swarming of Haido Central Hospital? Did it stop them from chasing Kirs' car right in the open? No, It didn't. The Organizations secrecy doesn't prevent them from doing these tasks. The Organization has always operated from the shadows and will always do. They've spent the past 50 years lurking in Japans shadows and they've been successful in doing so. No leads have been found on them, (excluding Vermouth's fingerprints) which goes to show how efficient they are. The Organization's secrecy doesn't limit them in any serious way but instead provides a huge advantage. Do their tasks require going out in the  open. Yes, but experience always keeps them in check. Need connections? You got them! Need weaponry/advanced technology? You got them! Need professional killers? You got them! This can go on forever but i'll get to the point. The Orgqanization can continue on with these dangerous public acts and will still never be caught. Murders done by them will seem like suicide. Incidents caused by them will seem like accidents. And they will still remain hidden. The Organization with their money, technology, members, connections can accomplish anything! And of course, disguises always come in handy. But hey, once their goal is achieved/close to being accomplished, the Organization will most probably, show themselves to the world but until that day comes they will remain hidden.

can't seriously contend with the entire world's police force.

And, you have to remember, Kira had the world's best detective on his ass who had UNLIMITED resources such as the USA, Japan's entire military force, Interpol, and L STILL died!

The FBI, USA, etc were srsly useless! Kira only had the world's greatest detective and a bunch of loyal policemen on his ass. And that, isn't much of a threat as to what you said above.
Besides, The Organization is a society sworn into secrecy. They didn't shove their middle fingers at the entire world and announce their presence. However, if the Org went public just as Kira did. I'm sure they'd be getting the same attention.

it makes it seem like no one can help out Conan at all and for the most part a good portion of the officers are horrible.

Taking out the Detectives such as L, Near and Melo. (who didn't even help L) Death Note's officers have been horrible as well. I mean, aside from Ray Penbar's and Lights father. Who else would fit that "above average" category. In Detective Conan you have Akai Shuichi who would kick Ray Penbar's wife all the way to Uranus. And Kir, who showed her worth as an undercover agent during the CORAB arc. You also have Jodie who plays an active role in Shinichi's fight against the Org. Other Death Note officers would probably fall into the "average or below average" category. Just like DC's James Black and Andre Camel.

And, seriously, Shinigami eyes man.  That is the greatest weapon ever!  In my opinion, I think it's fair to say that Yagami Light share's the same cunning and guile as Conan, perhaps not the same intelligence level when it comes to cases, as Conan is a specialist and a human library, but I'm sure Kira would be able to find a situation where he can get like Teru Mikami to see the BO members - and boom, game over.

Even with Misa and Teru's shinigami eyes... How? Organization = No face. No Name. Unknown members. Sworn to secrecy. Several thousands of members. Use of disguises. Unknown location. Professionals in doing their job. These people are ghosts...

I'm running short on time and this post may seem rushed but I'll work/finish it in a couple of hours. (going somewhere)

[ranger]

With a lot of limitations. The BO as said in my above post can do almost anything!
Plus, Light only kills bad people or people who get in his way. You know, those behind bars, etc. On the other hand, The Organization kill people from both sides. And besides, If one mere disk was said to "set the fate of the rest of humanity" I think that speaks for itself.

Well, we are talking about a situation where Kira is pitted against the BO, so Light WOULD kill the BO because they are getting in his way and is his enemy

If you were to pit both groups against each other. Who do you think would win? The Organization have connections everywhere! While, Kira on the other hand can't even move as freely a they do. Kira's moves, actions and choices are subtle and limited giving the Organization a major advantage. Besides, even with the eyes. How will Kira know who is and who is not from the Organization. Remember, due to their several connections and impressive investigatory skills the Organization can find people easily. Let's say the FBI have a couple of leads on Kira. The Organization will send an informat inside and BAM, he's screwed. The Organization could also get to him through his accomplices, who are far more inferior to Kira. Kira has a butt full of weaknesses and limitations while the Organization is pretty much tight. (though they do have a couple of weakspots: Kir and Vermouth)

The problem is that the BO would have a lot of trouble finding Kira as Light.  Like I said, L had more resources - while I acknowledge the fact that BO has many connections, they are all ILLEGAL connections which brings limits as well!  L, he can actually pretty much do what he wants - he wants to build a bigass skyscraper for his Kira investigations in downtown Tokyo? DONE.  He wants the USA pres to send in some FBI agents? DONE.

The reason why Kira was even suspected in the first place, if you remember, was the broadcast he did using a fake L.  The Black Org wouldn't have able to do that, because they are not a legitimate and legal organization.  The reason why the FBI, in Death Note, had leads on Kira was due to L's plans.

If the Black Organization can't catch Shinichi, who has the same DNA/facial profile as he did back when he was 17, I think it'll be even harder to trace Kira.  For all they know, they might think the killings are done by other organization, and not by a single person!

Sure they are an organization sworn in secrecy but that doesn't stop them from doing whatever they want. Being a clandestine group just makes their work bulletproof. Sure they can't reveal themselves to the public eye but that doesn't affect their way of operating. Did that stop the Organization from barging in that hotel looking for Sherry? Or scheduling an assassination right in an open park? Or, subcutaneously spurring 3 deadly incidents which caused the swarming of Haido Central Hospital? Did it stop them from chasing Kirs' car right in the open? No, It didn't. The Organizations secrecy doesn't prevent them from doing these tasks. The Organization has always operated from the shadows and will always do. They've spent the past 50 years lurking in Japans shadows and they've been successful in doing so. No leads have been found on them, (excluding Vermouth's fingerprints) which goes to show how efficient they are. The Organization's secrecy doesn't limit them in any serious way but instead provides a huge advantage. Do their tasks require going out in the  open. Yes, but experience always keeps them in check. Need connections? You got them! Need weaponry/advanced technology? You got them! Need professional killers? You got them! This can go on forever but i'll get to the point. The Orgqanization can continue on with these dangerous public acts and will still never be caught. Murders done by them will seem like suicide. Incidents caused by them will seem like accidents. And they will still remain hidden. The Organization with their money, technology, members, connections can accomplish anything! And of course, disguises always come in handy. But hey, once their goal is achieved/close to being accomplished, the Organization will most probably, show themselves to the world but until that day comes they will remain hidden.

You've clearly found a lot of evidence proving that they are capable, and I admit, very powerful.  But that's not going to help when they have no clue as who Kira is!  IF, and thats a big if, they even found out that Kira was a single person, it's like picking a needle out of a haystack.  It goes back to the point of resources - they don't have the manpower like L did.

The FBI, USA, etc were srsly useless! Kira only had the world's greatest detective and a bunch of loyal policemen on his ass. And that, isn't much of a threat as to what you said above.
Besides, The Organization is a society sworn into secrecy. They didn't shove their middle fingers at the entire world and announce their presence. However, if the Org went public just as Kira did. I'm sure they'd be getting the same attention.

Whaaat, the FBI were very useful in Death Note! The pressure it gave it to Kira allowed L to get the final confirmation that Light is the culrpit - after that he decided to find evidence to bring him to justice by introducing himself as Ryuzaki, and allowing him into the investigation!

It may seem like he only had a bunch of "loyal policemen" but he had infinite cash, the best technology the world can offer, and the backing of almost every single country in the world.  The BO, sure it's got lots o dough, and nice guns and stuff, but L has the WOORLLD.

If the Org went public like Kira did, it would be a lot easier to catch them because one - they have a lot of members which can be vulnerability, and two - you seem to forget that Kira kills in a supernatural way that's impossible to catch, a freaking notebook?  NO WAY anyone would believe that.  The Black Organization kills by human needs - and if Conan, one person, can deduct the BO's actions, imagine the World's brightest minds working together.

Taking out the Detectives such as L, Near and Melo. (who didn't even help L) Death Note's officers have been horrible as well. I mean, aside from Ray Penbar's and Lights father. Who else would fit that "above average" category. In Detective Conan you have Akai Shuichi who would kick Ray Penbar's wife all the way to Uranus. And Kir, who showed her worth as an undercover agent during the CORAB arc. You also have Jodie who plays an active role in Shinichi's fight against the Org. Other Death Note officers would probably fall into the "average or below average" category. Just like DC's James Black and Andre Camel.

You forget Wataru, Aizawa (who plays a big role in how Kira gets caught in the end), Mogi, and Ide! I think they are all very good officers compared to the likes of like Megure or Takagi, who really just sit back and watch Conan do all the work.

Another thing to bring up is that Kira has Shinigamis.  While they technically don't work for him, he can abuse their powers for his own good like he did many times in the series.  Plus, remember Kira's got some buddies too, Teru Mikami, and Kiyomi Takada, which are pretty damn smart.  And then there's Misa...I don't want to talk about her. 

[Introuble]

But that's not going to help when they have no clue as who Kira is!  IF, and thats a big if

The problem is that the BO would have a lot of trouble finding Kira as Light.

Plus, remember Kira's got some buddies too, Teru Mikami, and Kiyomi Takada, which are pretty damn smart

Okay, here's the thing. If were planning on putting Kira, L and the Org into this scenario. The Organization would easily find him. The Organization would simply slip a couple of informats into L's team and boom, with all those leads, he's screwed. However, if we were to take all Detectives out of the scenario leaving Kira and Company to battle the Org one on one. That would be a completely different story. Though I admit, without L's head to head battle with Kira. Light would be much harder to spot. But here's the thing.

As I said in my previous posts. Aside from their numerous connections and influences. The Organization have IMPRESSIVE investigatory skills and I can't stress this enough. The Organization have extremely clever detectives, spies and informats. Not to mention, all of these people are experts and their deduction skills are way over the top. I mean, even without witnessing Kirs' accident they were still able to find the only witness to the incident (the little boy) and ask him a couple of questions. Seriously, even without looking at the witnesses' face, witnessing the incident, or even it's location they were still successful in locating him. Amazing right? You also have Gin who was able to put together Conan's little trap in episode 311. He literally "stepped" on Conan's plan, explaining each and every detail. Seriously, this isn't even Gin's area of specialization. You also have Bourbon, the only member of the Org whom Gin praised directly for his "Sherlock Holmes-esque" deduction abilities. The BO were also able to plant several spies around Haido Central Hospital resulting in the confirmation of several FBI members monitoring the hospital. And besides, if the police came up with any leads about Kira, the Oranization as usual, would have their informats report on these leads. Due to this, The police forces in Japan will now become fishing lines for the Org.

Another thing would be the clues left behind. If Kira and the Org were to be pitted aganist each other, I'm sure the Org would assign teams responsible for monitoring his movements. Due to this, Kira's movements will be analyzed, and based on the results the Organization would gain several leads.
a) Based on his victims being concentrated in Japan. Kira most probably lives in Japan.
b) Based on his killing patterns Kira is most probably a student/high school student.

Another lead they could follow.

Spoiler:

Remember when Misa mailed her tapes to Sakura TV in Death Note. Imagine what would happen if the Organization would see this. (The Kanto region will be heavily monitored by the Org. Especially the areas nearing Sakura TV's station)

Though it make take a while, The organization will slowly narrow it down. Especially with my point in the below paragraph.

But the biggest and greatest weakness of Kira would have to be his accomplices. Kira, Misa, Teru and Kiyomi (who come much later in the series) aren't as smart as Light. Aside from Teru, Kiyomi and Misa aren't the brightest among the bunch. Misa is capable of being beyond stupid. She is careless and prone to mistakes. I mean, if she were to mail that videotape to Sakura TV. Man, that would be the end of her. The BO would probably wait for them to hook up and catch them both. Misa needs Light's guidance in order to work efficiently. She is not capable of making her own decisions. Kiyomi on the other hand, may not be dumb. But let's be realists here, she's not a genius. She too, is prone to mistakes. Teru on the other hand, is a genius! However, his independent actions have also caused Light's downfall. So, Teru, who may be very reliabe is still capable of committing mistakes. The BO, using their numerous connections, detectives, informats and technology would probably get to these people and connect them to Kira. (Just as L did to Misa).

they are all ILLEGAL connections which brings limits as well!

These connections are unknown and secure thus, they don't have any serious limitations.

he reason why Kira was even suspected in the first place, if you remember, was the broadcast he did using a fake L.  The Black Org wouldn't have able to do that, because they are not a legitimate and legal organization.

Yes, due to the fact that they are an organization sworn into secrecy. This sort of stunt would have been impossible. However, they could gain several leads by just monitoring his movements or by getting to his accomplices, just as I said earlier in this post..

If the Black Organization can't catch Shinichi, who has the same DNA/facial profile

They aren't even aware of his presence. Gin slipped apotoxin down his throat with the knowledge of it being a murderous drug and nothing else. Shinichi was pronounced dead by Sherry's team who was responsible in investigating him. Ever since that incident, Shinichi has disappeared from the public eye, making his death even more convincing. Shinichi is now living with a different family, different look, different name, and different age! Shinichi is currently living a completely different life as a pre school student. Hanging out with different friends, cementing new relationships with other people, doing other things, etc. Honestly, who would actually believe a teenager being shrunk into a little kid?

Whaaat, the FBI were very useful in Death Note! The pressure it gave it to Kira allowed L to get the final confirmation that Light is the culrpit - after that he decided to find evidence to bring him to justice by introducing himself as Ryuzaki, and allowing him into the investigation!

Yeah, their deaths were useful (because of their deaths, L was able to narrow his prime suspects to two). However, aside from dying, what else did they do? I know their deaths were very important to the story but they weren't even a threat to Kira. Aside from dying, what else did they do? Investigate? I wouldn't call that "very useful". Sure, their deaths led to a huge discovery, but their actions when they were still living were barely anything.

It may seem like he only had a bunch of "loyal policemen" but he had infinite cash, the best technology the world can offer,

The Organization practically have infinite cash as well and they certainly have the best technology the world can offer. Wait, maybe even better! Come on. A perfected sniping simulator? Thermal scanners? Seriously, they have numerous scientists who have received the best education. I think that speaks for itself.

and the backing of almost every single country in the world.

Uh huh. So remind me, what did "almost every single country in the world" do for L during the Kira case?

Okay, to clear things up. I'll give a breakdown of L's (not Nears) backup during the series.

First part of the series - The FBI backs out of the Kira case together with several other officers and the Japanese police. Leaving L with a bunch of loyal officers.

Second part of the series - Together with his bunch of loyal supporters. The Japanese police decide to help L in his fight against Kira.

I never saw the "world" backing up L during this case but I did see the Japanese police alone as a group helping L out. Seriously, no offense to the FBI agents in Death Note (RIP) but aside from dying and giving L a major lead. They didn't do anything else....

but L has the WOORLLD

Okay, so what exactly did the "WOORLLD" do for L during the Kira case.

If the Org went public like Kira did, it would be a lot easier to catch them because one - they have a lot of members which can be vulnerability

Yeah, they'd obviously be a lot more vunerable, but take note. The Org will most probably go public once their goal is completed. And if their goal gives them that much confidence, I'm sure they could do anything.
Remember, their goal was said to "set the fate for the rest of humanity". Oh wait, that was one of their projects. Imagine, how dangerous their main project is if one of their smaller ones was said to do this much damage.
And remember all of those points I mentioned in my earlier post.

Spoiler:

Black Organization
- No face. No name (Shinichi just calls them "the Organization"). Unknown members. Unknown goals.
- Have a lot of connections and influences in hollywood, the media, the goverment, the police, the FBI, etc).
- Control a lot of wealthy/influential people.
- Control a number of highly trained killers
- Unknown goal however, it seems to something dangerous especially since one of their projects was said to "set the fate for all of humanity"
- Are extremely filthy filthy filthy super extremely wealthy.
- Have the power to do almost everything (The Organization simultaneously started 3 deadly incidents in the CORAB arc which led to the swarming of Haido Central Hospital)
- Their efficient/structured ways of operating and their brilliant ways of secrecy.
- Their ability to leave no traces at all.
- By having several members planted in different places, companies and organizations. The Organization could use these positions in order to complete tasks such as assassinations, information gathering, etc.
- They also own several companies, companies which are headed by their members, to be exact.
- They have been successful in persuading several influential people to their side.
- Use advanced technology.
- Experience (The Black Organization has been in existence for more than 50 years)
- They can get anything they want via connections, bribery, blackmail, etc.
- Their incredible ways of investigating. (Even without knowing the boy-who-witnessed-the-rena-incident's face or the incident for that matter. Vermouth was still, able to locate that boy and ask him a couple of questions)
- The Organization's assassins are highly trained in several ways. They have efficient sure-shot snipers, People who are capable of pulling off flawless disguises, cold blooded killers like Gin, highly experienced members who specialize in information gathering and amazing detectives like Bourbon.
- Have several thousands of members.
- Control a large amount of highly intelligent and educated scientists who have studied overseas.

The Organization is capable of "becoming a person".
(click to show/hide)

Oh my god.
(click to show/hide)

Their mere presence alone could drive an escapee insane!
(click to show/hide)

The insanely huge amount of information they have on people
(click to show/hide)

The Black Organization's only weakness.
1) Vermouth

Kira's weaknesses.
1) Can't kill without a name or face
2)His allies who obtained the Shinigami eyes can't kill without a face.
- Due to the obvious clues of him...
a) Being a student
b) Living in a certain area in Japan
c) Having connections to the police (His father's files)
Kira cannot move as freely as the Black Organization.
4) You can get to Kira by fooling his subordinates, since they're much inferior in terms of strategic thinking. (Just as they did to Misa)

The Organization wins this one, HANDS DOWN.

Trust me, it's not gonna be pretty. With all that power being contained in one small box being released all in one go. Dang, that's Pandora's box for you.
Not to mention, There's a big possibility of the Org having several ties to America.  :D

The Black Organization kills by human needs

Should this even be considered as "human". The Org has soooooo much power as I explained in my posts that it technically, isn't even human. Besides, they can call anyone they want (through connections, disguises, professional killers, snipers, poison, etc) just not in a snappy manner like Kira.

if Conan, one person, can deduct the BO's actions

Yeah, just like L and Near can deduct L's actions.

imagine the World's brightest minds working together.

If you mean L, Near and Melo as "World's brightest minds" then I could easily imagine Kira's defeat. Sure, it will still be hard but I'm sure it'd take a lot less than 6 years to finish the case.
Besides, even if you do combine those 3 to fight the Organization. Bring it on! Let's break things down. Imagine how catching the BO would be without Conan.

Without Conan...
a) Sherry would have died.
b) Episode 345, 425 and the Clash of Red and Black would have never happened.
c) Kir would have never been caught.
d) The target in episode 425 would have been assassinated.
e) That disk developed by "i forgot his name" would have been recovered making the Organizations goal a mile closer.
f) Vermouth wouldn't have any soft feelings for anyone, thus, elimating her as a weakness.
g) The FBI would still be chasing a ghost. With no leads except for Vermouth and Kir who has been visiting Araide's clinic for quite some time.
h) Without Conan, Sherry would be dead resulting. Due to this, the Vermouth-Araide disguise would never have happened. Leaving the FBI with only one clue, her fingerprints.

I wonder if the "worlds brightest criminals" could catch this ghost. It will obviously be more of a challenge than fighting Kira, who leaves all these facts on the table. Without Conan, everything would be reset. Leaving the trio (L, Near and Melo) with nothing.

Kira kills in a supernatural way

Yeah, with a lot of limitations. And at least he kills the scum of this world. Though an act like this is considered immoral, Kira's actions definitely make the world a better place.

a freaking notebook?  NO WAY anyone would believe that.

I'm sure the Org would reach the same conclusion. Not to mention, there are also several other facts which would make this believable. Such as:
a) Only a certain amount of criminals die each day.
b) Criminals are the only victims in these killings.
c) Numerous criminals die each day with a pattern in intervals.
d) These criminals are only those reported on the internet, news and the television.
e) Criminals with unknown names are not affected/Criminals with unknown faces are not affected.
f) All of them die of heart attacks.
g) There is a certain pattern each day as if the person is unable to so in certain points of the day. Patterns, fitting a student's life.
h) Even criminals inside prison cells are dying.

Though, the Org may not reach a "killing notebook" right away. They will obviously take note of these strange facts and conclude that someone in this world recently gained supernatural powers. And sooner or later, they'll figure out that, that certain person needs a name and face to kill.

You forget Wataru, Aizawa (who plays a big role in how Kira gets caught in the end), Mogi, and Ide!

I didn't forget them. These guys, in my opinion, do not fit the above average category. These guys are practically extras who give importance from a time to time basis. Everyone knows that L does everything. This is L's case and he alone handed out the rules. Without L, these guys would be useless. Sure they did a couple of good things. Like one of them was responsible for finding out that Kiyomi and Light conversed via notes. And, Matsuda, proved that he wasn't an Eisuke by beating the hell out of Light at the end. But hey, without L, these guys are nothing. In my opinion, these guys fit the average category together with Detective Conan's Andre Camel and James Black.

I think they are all very good officers compared to the likes of like Megure or Takagi

These guys are in no condition to fight the Organization. They aren't even capable of killing. These people are obviously not fit to take on such a heavy role. It's not their job. These people were created for regular cases and not for the (BO) plot. If you want to compare officers, use those in the FBI/CIA for your comparison. Use those who are fit in carrying such role. These guys shouldn't even be part of this discussion.

Another thing to bring up is that Kira has Shinigamis.

 
Yeah, Ryuk and Rem.  ;D

And, seriously, Shinigami eyes man.  That is the greatest weapon ever!  In my opinion, I think it's fair to say that Yagami Light share's the same cunning and guile as Conan, perhaps not the same intelligence level when it comes to cases, as Conan is a specialist and a human library, but I'm sure Kira would be able to find a situation where he can get like Teru Mikami to see the BO members - and boom, game over.

Even with Misa and Teru's shinigami eyes. How? Organization = No face. No Name. Unknown members. Sworn to secrecy. Several thousands of members. Use of disguises. Unknown location. Professionals in doing their job. These people are ghosts...

While they technically don't work for him, he can abuse their powers for his own good like he did many times in the series.

Yeah. you have a point here. Sure, Ryuk might inform Kira that someone is following him but either from that. Against, the Organization, they can only do so much. Since, as you said they technically don't work for them. And also, since he doesn't control Rem completely, Misa does. Leaving Kira with one loyal Shinigami.  Anyway, aside from informing him of followers/cameras given that he (Ryuk) wants to in the first place. What else can they do? Changing the rules of the Death Note don't seem so useful against the Organization. Though helpful, these Shinigami can only do so much against the Organization. Another thing I noticed. The Organization may have a hard time in discovering Kira's identity but I also don't see Kira bringing this entire, massive, Organization down. Even with help, I still can't imagine it. Even if he does kill a BO detective. That's only one person and besides, a death would only serve as a marker for the Org. If a person following (Light) him dies, the BO will even send more people after him. And if those people die, they'd probably kill him. So it's either Kira acts innocently or kill the dude and make himself a target. Besides, BO members are usually careful when trailing somebody. They usually blend with the crowd or act normally and they'd probably switch/use disguises from time to time as well. But if ever they do get caught or choose to follow carefully but expose themselves to the Shinigami by doing the "follow-stop-follow-hide-follow" process. That still leaves Kira would a dilemma: Act regularly or make himself a target. Besides, I doubt if Kira will view the Org as a criminal society planning on taking him down at the start. But he eventually will, and even when he does realize this, what would he do? But one thing's for sure...

The Organization will make the first move.

Why?

Answer: Because the Org knows of this person killing people supernaturally but Kira has no knowledge of the Organization. Thus, making them act first. However, IF the Organization fails to realize that a person is killing people supernaturally despite all those facts. Then, they wouldn't even start a search in the first place. Making this battle impossible to begin with. So, in order for this battle to even start, the Org must conclude that a person is killing people supernaturally and go after him. Otherwise, this entire one on one thing, would be impossible.

Well, the fact that this poll is in a Detective Conan based forum is going to bring skewed data my friend.

Well, posting anywhere else is no different from posting in a Death Note forum anyway. As I've said in my earlier post.

Well, I'm sure majority of the members over here have watched both Detective Conan and Death Note.
I mean, who hasn't watched Death Note? Probably only a handful of people haven't watched Death Note in DCTP.
So the votes over here are more reliable in comparison to other anime sites since all majority of the people in other fourms haven't even watched Detective Conan.

The only place where Detective Conan can win in terms of "L vs Shinichi" or "BO vs Kira" is in a Detective Conan forum where people are mature and highly knowledgeable in both animes.

Hey Ranger, I'm glad that our debate so far has been smooth and I'd like to keep it this way. So, if you feel like I'm bashing your beliefs/writing in a irritable manner please, tell me.  :)
Compared to other Death Note VS DC debates. This debate is obviously the best I've in a while and I wouldn't want it to turn sour.

(I'll check this thread again in two days. I'll be out until then do don't expect a reply today or tomorrow. Night Ranger.)

[ranger]

Not going to Lie.  THIS IS A hyping PAIN TO QUOTE.


And nah, I don't think you're responding in a irritating way..its the internet, you can't take things too seriously.


I'll edit this for my response later.

[Introuble]

Not going to Lie.  THIS IS A hyping PAIN TO QUOTE.

Looool! 

[ranger]

YOOSH *sips coffee

As I said in my previous posts. Aside from their numerous connections and influences. The Organization have IMPRESSIVE investigatory skills and I can't stress this enough. The Organization have extremely clever detectives, spies and informats. Not to mention, all of these people are experts and their deduction skills are way over the top. I mean, even without witnessing Kirs' accident they were still able to find the only witness to the incident (the little boy) and ask him a couple of questions. Seriously, even without looking at the witnesses' face, witnessing the incident, or even it's location they were still successful in locating him. Amazing right? You also have Gin who was able to put together Conan's little trap in episode 311. He literally "stepped" on Conan's plan, explaining each and every detail. Seriously, this isn't even Gin's area of specialization. You also have Bourbon, the only member of the Org whom Gin praised directly for his "Sherlock Holmes-esque" deduction abilities. The BO were also able to plant several spies around Haido Central Hospital resulting in the confirmation of several FBI members monitoring the hospital. And besides, if the police came up with any leads about Kira, the Oranization as usual, would have their informats report on these leads. Due to this, The police forces in Japan will now become fishing lines for the Org.

The Black Organization has a lot of strong and qualified members that excel in their own expertise- but don't you think L shares those same abilities?  In Death Note canon, he was the greatest detective in the world.  It's not completely unreasonable that L could have pulled the same actions that Gin does.

Regarding the hospital setup, I think you may be giving more credit than deserved...what the BO did sounds like what any military organization can accomplish.  FBI members are quite easy to track - so easy that a high school boy with a shinigami can track (har har..), but in all seriousness FBI members do have identification and records - they aren't ghosts.  If you were to put the SAS or Interpol in the Black Organization's position as enemies of the FBI, they could of pulled off that stunt as well.

Another thing would be the clues left behind. If Kira and the Org were to be pitted aganist each other, I'm sure the Org would assign teams responsible for monitoring his movements. Due to this, Kira's movements will be analyzed, and based on the results the Organization would gain several leads.
a) Based on his victims being concentrated in Japan. Kira most probably lives in Japan.
b) Based on his killing patterns Kira is most probably a student/high school student.

It's true that the Black Organization would have the resources and intel to probably isolate Kira in the Kanto region with his concentrated killings in Japan, but there's still no way to distinguish if the killings are done by a single person or multiple.

But the biggest and greatest weakness of Kira would have to be his accomplices. Kira, Misa, Teru and Kiyomi (who come much later in the series) aren't as smart as Light. Aside from Teru, Kiyomi and Misa aren't the brightest among the bunch. Misa is capable of being beyond stupid. She is careless and prone to mistakes. I mean, if she were to mail that videotape to Sakura TV. Man, that would be the end of her. The BO would probably wait for them to hook up and catch them both. Misa needs Light's guidance in order to work efficiently. She is not capable of making her own decisions. Kiyomi on the other hand, may not be dumb. But let's be realists here, she's not a genius. She too, is prone to mistakes. Teru on the other hand, is a genius! However, his independent actions have also caused Light's downfall. So, Teru, who may be very reliabe is still capable of committing mistakes. The BO, using their numerous connections, detectives, informats and technology would probably get to these people and connect them to Kira. (Just as L did to Misa).

Okay, Misa is super retarded and is probably the biggest flaw in Kira's plan and the Black Organization's greatest chance to kill him.  However, the only way Kira (Light) could respond to Misa in the first place was due to the fact that he was with L, and L has infinite connections and allowed a TV broadcast.  Secondly, the first video that Misa put actually didn't have any hair traces, but simply fingerprints.  L did not have the resources to allow a worldwide fingerprint collection, so I doubt the Black Organization could do so as well - its just impossible.  The other videos that Misa did in response to Kira were the ones that had hairprints/incriminating information such as Shinigamis and "eyes".  But due to the fact that L doesn't exist in this battle of Kira vs BO, Light would have just sat back and watched what happened - he wouldn't needlessly interfere so he would be safe.

BTW, the FBI come much later, faar later in Detective Conan compared to Death Note so that can't be an excuse.

These connections are unknown and secure thus, they don't have any serious limitations.

But, they have more limitations than a legal worldwide supported organization such as L's investigation team.  It's like to compare the real world's Black Market, which is very strong and powerful, to the world's legal economy; their are things the Black Organization just can't do which will limit their investigation.

Yes, due to the fact that they are an organization sworn into secrecy. This sort of stunt would have been impossible. However, they could gain several leads by just monitoring his movements or by getting to his accomplices, just as I said earlier in this post..

How would he have gained his location/identity/ his movements?  His accomplices are almost impossible to trace because L did not exist and thus the information that he created and gave to Near does not exist.  His accomplices, which are Teru Mikami and Kiyomi, would be untraceable as well because the only reason Light had these accomplices were to release pressure off of him since Near suspected him so much.  There's no way the Black Organization could have done this to Light because, they are an illegal company sworn to secrecy and wouldn't have been able to pressurize Light as much as Near did, who had the backup of the United States.

They aren't even aware of his presence. Gin slipped apotoxin down his throat with the knowledge of it being a murderous drug and nothing else. Shinichi was pronounced dead by Sherry's team who was responsible in investigating him. Ever since that incident, Shinichi has disappeared from the public eye, making his death even more convincing. Shinichi is now living with a different family, different look, different name, and different age! Shinichi is currently living a completely different life as a pre school student. Hanging out with different friends, cementing new relationships with other people, doing other things, etc. Honestly, who would actually believe a teenager being shrunk into a little kid?

But the Black Organization aren't aware of Light's presence either.  If they managed to narrow down Light's position to Japan and his occupation as a High school student by studying the beginning crime deaths, that's still picking  a needle out of a haystack.  And Shinichi hasn't exactly disappeared from the public eye - he's made a lot of appearances only to tell people "hey don't tell anyone I was here!"  You talk a lot about the Black Oranization slipping in informants to find Kira, but remember Desperate Revival?  Shinichi appeared in front of maybe 200 high school students and the only thing Hattori said was "hey don't tell anyone".  If the Black Organization is as powerful at intel as you say, don't you think they would have found Shinichi by his stupid appearance?  If the B.O. couldn't have picked up clues regarding Shinichi being alive from that, I DOUBT they can even trace Light.

Yeah, their deaths were useful (because of their deaths, L was able to narrow his prime suspects to two). However, aside from dying, what else did they do? I know their deaths were very important to the story but they weren't even a threat to Kira. Aside from dying, what else did they do? Investigate? I wouldn't call that "very useful". Sure, their deaths led to a huge discovery, but their actions when they were still living were barely anything.

Deaths are important    The point is that even though they may not have done a whole lot in their life when they were living, but they were still very useful in capturing Kira.

The Organization practically have infinite cash as well and they certainly have the best technology the world can offer. Wait, maybe even better! Come on. A perfected sniping simulator? Thermal scanners? Seriously, they have numerous scientists who have received the best education. I think that speaks for itself.

But L has MOORE infinite cash   The BO are rich of course, but in all seriousness L had more money.  The Sniping simulator..I have no response to that, that's just absurd lol.

But it's not reasonable to think that the greatest scientists in the world are coming over to the Black Organization instead of going to legitimate prestigious companies like NASA or w/e - people are going to question why their are shady members talking to MIT grads in the career fair.

Uh huh. So remind me, what did "almost every single country in the world" do for L during the Kira case?

Okay, to clear things up. I'll give a breakdown of L's (not Nears) backup during the series.

First part of the series - The FBI backs out of the Kira case together with several other officers and the Japanese police. Leaving L with a bunch of loyal officers.

Second part of the series - Together with his bunch of loyal supporters. The Japanese police decide to help L in his fight against Kira.

I never saw the "world" backing up L during this case but I did see the Japanese police alone as a group helping L out. Seriously, no offense to the FBI agents in Death Note (RIP) but aside from dying and giving L a major lead. They didn't do anything else....

Well in the beginning of the series, L did have the backing of every single country in the world.  During the ICPO press conference in the beginning of the series, he asked for special help from Japan, and the rest of the organizations in their respective countries.  People started backing out because they were afraid, they are only human after all... L may not have had more FBI agents flown to his will, but he still probably received a lot of cash and technology (such as database computers/etc/tracking shit).

And I believe the Black Organization would have been in the same situation regarding countries backing out.  People started to quit once they saw how powerful Kira was and how no one was stopping him for a while.  The BO are human also, they fear and get scared - new members would probably be afraid to join with Kira dominating the world.  Their resources would dry out as well.

Okay, so what exactly did the "WOORLLD" do for L during the Kira case.

addressed this above.

Yeah, they'd obviously be a lot more vunerable, but take note. The Org will most probably go public once their goal is completed. And if their goal gives them that much confidence, I'm sure they could do anything.
Remember, their goal was said to "set the fate for the rest of humanity". Oh wait, that was one of their projects. Imagine, how dangerous their main project is if one of their smaller ones was said to do this much damage.
And remember all of those points I mentioned in my earlier post.

Spoiler:

Black Organization
- No face. No name (Shinichi just calls them "the Organization"). Unknown members. Unknown goals.
- Have a lot of connections and influences in hollywood, the media, the goverment, the police, the FBI, etc).
- Control a lot of wealthy/influential people.
- Control a number of highly trained killers
- Unknown goal however, it seems to something dangerous especially since one of their projects was said to "set the fate for all of humanity"
- Are extremely filthy filthy filthy super extremely wealthy.
- Have the power to do almost everything (The Organization simultaneously started 3 deadly incidents in the CORAB arc which led to the swarming of Haido Central Hospital)
- Their efficient/structured ways of operating and their brilliant ways of secrecy.
- Their ability to leave no traces at all.
- By having several members planted in different places, companies and organizations. The Organization could use these positions in order to complete tasks such as assassinations, information gathering, etc.
- They also own several companies, companies which are headed by their members, to be exact.
- They have been successful in persuading several influential people to their side.
- Use advanced technology.
- Experience (The Black Organization has been in existence for more than 50 years)
- They can get anything they want via connections, bribery, blackmail, etc.
- Their incredible ways of investigating. (Even without knowing the boy-who-witnessed-the-rena-incident's face or the incident for that matter. Vermouth was still, able to locate that boy and ask him a couple of questions)
- The Organization's assassins are highly trained in several ways. They have efficient sure-shot snipers, People who are capable of pulling off flawless disguises, cold blooded killers like Gin, highly experienced members who specialize in information gathering and amazing detectives like Bourbon.
- Have several thousands of members.
- Control a large amount of highly intelligent and educated scientists who have studied overseas.

Trust me, it's not gonna be pretty. With all that power being contained in one small box being released all in one go. Dang, that's Pandora's box for you.
Not to mention, There's a big possibility of the Org having several ties to America. 

Everything you listed there, L has as well.  He had connections to companies as the world's greatest detective on the world's biggest murder case.  He has access to organizations such as SAS, Interpol, FBI that have existed far longer than 50 years.  He has access to sharpshooters, excellent military personell, mucho dinero..

Regarding the goal, there's not much I can say about it because it's still unknown and very mysterious - I would have no idea how it would play out, and when this goal will ever be achieved.

Regarding Kira's weaknesses - the only ones I truly see are as a student and living in Japan, which will allow the Black Organization to thoroughly investigate, i don't see how being the son of a police officer will be seen as a weakness - plus, the shinigami eyes can be pulled any time.  If he feels he has to, he will do it.

Kira can move pretty freely because no one suspects him - he is innocent until proven guilty, he's not some shady organization that is sworn into secrecy - he can do what he wants with his notebook.

So no, I don't believe the Black Organization wins this hands down.  at least not with a fight.

Should this even be considered as "human". The Org has soooooo much power as I explained in my posts that it technically, isn't even human. Besides, they can call anyone they want (through connections, disguises, professional killers, snipers, poison, etc) just not in a snappy manner like Kira.

Those are very human ways of killing. Snipers, poisons, professional killers, disguises - these ways of killing have been existent for all of humanity and police have catched numerous criminals in these heinous acts.  Having power doesn't change the fact that these killings are still traceable and can't compare to the Godly like killings of the death note, where no one would suspect due to the supernatural aspects.

Yeah, just like L and Near can deduct L's actions.

I don't get what you're saying here

If you mean L, Near and Melo as "World's brightest minds" then I could easily imagine Kira's defeat. Sure, it will still be hard but I'm sure it'd take a lot less than 6 years to finish the case.
Besides, even if you do combine those 3 to fight the Organization. Bring it on! Let's break things down. Imagine how catching the BO would be without Conan.

Without Conan...
a) Sherry would have died.
b) Episode 345, 425 and the Clash of Red and Black would have never happened.
c) Kir would have never been caught.
d) The target in episode 425 would have been assassinated.
e) That disk developed by "i forgot his name" would have been recovered making the Organizations goal a mile closer.
f) Vermouth wouldn't have any soft feelings for anyone, thus, elimating her as a weakness.
g) The FBI would still be chasing a ghost. With no leads except for Vermouth and Kir who has been visiting Araide's clinic for quite some time.
h) Without Conan, Sherry would be dead resulting. Due to this, the Vermouth-Araide disguise would never have happened. Leaving the FBI with only one clue, her fingerprints.

I wonder if the "worlds brightest criminals" could catch this ghost. It will obviously be more of a challenge than fighting Kira, who leaves all these facts on the table. Without Conan, everything would be reset. Leaving the trio (L, Near and Melo) with nothing.

It's true that a lot of Conan's accomplishments would have been lost, but L, Near, Mello could get these clues or get as far as Conan can in other means.  There's not much I can say because I would be making up situations in my mind and it's not fair to say it would have "worked".  The Death Note brightest minds can act far more freely than Conan, who's main resource is Agasa, and the fact that he's a child that no one takes seriously.  Compare that to L or Near's resources..

You can't just list all these actions that Conan did and what Conan saved because we are starting from scratch and pretending he never existed.

Yeah, with a lot of limitations. And at least he kills the scum of this world. Though an act like this is considered immoral, Kira's actions definitely make the world a better place.

Yup that's what I love him.

I'm sure the Org would reach the same conclusion. Not to mention, there are also several other facts which would make this believable. Such as:
a) Only a certain amount of criminals die each day.
b) Criminals are the only victims in these killings.
c) Numerous criminals die each day with a pattern in intervals.
d) These criminals are only those reported on the internet, news and the television.
e) Criminals with unknown names are not affected/Criminals with unknown faces are not affected.
f) All of them die of heart attacks.
g) There is a certain pattern each day as if the person is unable to so in certain points of the day. Patterns, fitting a student's life.
h) Even criminals inside prison cells are dying.

Though, the Org may not reach a "killing notebook" right away. They will obviously take note of these strange facts and conclude that someone in this world recently gained supernatural powers. And sooner or later, they'll figure out that, that certain person needs a name and face to kill.

.. -_- There's no way the Black Org would even come to the conclusion that its a notebook that kills people.  That's absurd!  No one would ever think of that - the only reason the notebook was even suspected in Death Note (the series) was because they actually found it.

  You can't just say the BO would reach the same conclusion, its not fair - its like if I said "Kira would probably just find the same shit Conan did", it's not fair and I don't have evidence.  Even with these rules, no one in their sane mind would ever believe that supernatural causes would be the solution - and if they did, they would probably fear for their lives and quit.

Even with Misa and Teru's shinigami eyes. How? Organization = No face. No Name. Unknown members. Sworn to secrecy. Several thousands of members. Use of disguises. Unknown location. Professionals in doing their job. These people are ghosts...

Well...let me toss back the question at ya - How?  How will the Organization find Light - They don't have a name, they don't a remote location other than the fact in Japan, a student..which limits it to like..some absurd million number..  Light is a ghost!

Yeah. you have a point here. Sure, Ryuk might inform Kira that someone is following him but either from that. Against, the Organization, they can only do so much. Since, as you said they technically don't work for them. And also, since he doesn't control Rem completely, Misa does. Leaving Kira with one loyal Shinigami.  Anyway, aside from informing him of followers/cameras given that he (Ryuk) wants to in the first place. What else can they do? Changing the rules of the Death Note doesn't seem so useful against the Organization. Though helpful, these Shinigami can only do so much against the Organization. Another thing I noticed. The Organization may have a hard time in discovering Kira's identity but I also don't see Kira bringing this entire, massive, Organization down. Even with help, I still can't imagine it. Even if he does kill a BO detective. That's only one person and besides, a death would only serve as a marker for the Org. If a person following (Light) him dies, the BO will even send more people after him. And if those people die, they'll probably kill him. So it's either Kira acts innocently or kill the dude and make himself a target. Besides, BO members are usually careful when trailing somebody. They usually blend with the crowd or act normally and they'd probably switch/use disguises from time to time as well. But if ever they do get caught or choose to follow carefully but expose themselves to the Shinigami by doing the "follow-stop-follow-hide-follow" process. That still leaves Kira would a dilemma: Act regularly or make himself a target. Besides, I doubt if Kira will view the Org as a criminal society planning on taking him down at the start. But he eventually will, but even when he realizes this, what would he do? But one thing's for sure...

Well, Light can always just use apples to convince Ryuk to help him out with stupid stuff like telling him about cameras or if someone's following him. 

Kira doesn't need to completely KILL the Black Organization I guess to win; what I said before of "destroying" the BO was wrong.  Kira simply needs to gain total dominance like he did during the second half of the series as a God of the new world.  Everyone will follow him, and people who oppose him are sinners.  The Black Organization would be a minority group  - and ultimately wouldn't have a chance against Kira - and perhaps just completely ignoring him or dissolving into nothingness, or even supporting Kira in the end.  This is how Kira can win.  The BO can only win by forcing Kira to quit or to kill him.

Light has a strange sense of justice, no mercy for heavy-duty criminals, but for petty crimes and for criminals who have given up their ways and have repent, he doesn't have a problem with.  So, he technically doesn't need to kill them.

The Organization will make the first move.

Why?

Answer: Because the Org knows of this person killing people supernaturally but Kira has no knowledge of the Organization. Thus, making them act first. However, IF the Organization fails to realize that a person is killing people supernaturally despite all those facts. Then, they wouldn't even start a search in the first place. Making this battle impossible to begin with. So, in order for this battle to even start, the Org must conclude that a person is killing people supernaturally and go after him. Otherwise, this entire one on one thing, would be impossible.

I don't understand; how does the BO know Kira is killing supernaturally?  Of course the BO would take the first move because Light would probably have no clue in who the BO is at first.  I agree with that.  But it's what happens after the first move that I'm debating - who wins the chess match.

Well, posting anywhere else is no different from posting in a Death Note forum anyway. As I've said in my earlier post.

Well, I'm sure majority of the members over here have watched both Detective Conan and Death Note.
I mean, who hasn't watched Death Note? Probably only a handful of people haven't watched Death Note in DCTP.
So the votes over here are more reliable in comparison to other anime sites since all majority of the people in other fourms haven't even watched Detective Conan.

The only place where Detective Conan can win in terms of "L vs Shinichi" or "BO vs Kira" is in a Detective Conan forum where people are mature and highly knowledgeable in both animes.

Meh..that's not very good reasoning - sounds very biased haha.  The fact that this is in a DC forum means that DC is far more favored than other manga/anime series - this show is most likely their favorite.  It's true that Death Note is probably more popular than DC and more people watch it - but there is less bias if posting this in a general anime forum rather than a Death Note or DC forum.  It's like if I posted "what's better, Call of Duty or Halo" in a Halo thread.  What do you expect will happen eh?  I can say that "currently more people play Call of Duty than Halo so if I post it on a Halo forum, who  have members probably have played both, the polls will be more fair".