Mafia! Mafia! Mafia! Character Role Discussions

[Kleene Onigiri]

I'm double posting this to bump up the topic as well,

but anyway, I just noticed the whole thing of "when a BO member is lynched, it's revealed who they have killed via poison and night-killings" is missing from the list, is that going to be done this game?

Is that in Schilloks list? D: I dunno what it's good for to reveal this. If you almost killed every BO, and one is left. You'll definitely know who he killed and you can arrest him. This will give the town an advantage at the end when there are fewer BOs left. And in that case, the town doesn't need an advantage anymore imo.

@steal: Yeah. I didn't finish it yet D: I was in a hurry to add stuff to the roles and forgot to update the "steal" section. And forgot ayumis panties too XD
Well, there won't be any items that just occur at BO's. Only thing that occurs just at town is school book. But that's like saying "it's a teenager" and a lot of people have that.
I'll update it. Maybe I'll remove it completly D: Dunno.


Moooore feedback? XD I wanted to try some things out. But you can tell me what you think about that or make suggestions :p More like I want you too XD I went through Schilloks list. But maybe I missed something and didn't add it because of that too. So tell me if you want something in for testing purposes ;p
I changed James, added Akemi and Ran doesn't die anymore too etc. :p And I added the "investigation 5 for Gin" which Akonyl suggested.

[Kleene Onigiri]

Edited the list:

Edit:
Changed:
- "Can steal one item from one person per night. Can steal from that person again on the next night". (instead not being able to steal from the same person again)
- Updated stealing list.
- Police has less Investigations.

[Schillok]

Well, at least Ayumi wears panties now... 

Maybe it is just me, but the town seems to have gotten stronger once more (especially concerning Ran, stealing and due to arresting stopping poisoning).
Giving Gin investigate 5 is... don't know, it seems a bit odd considering I have never seen him investigate anything. He is more some kind of "executive" agent, and much less specialized on gathering information himself. It might also ruin some of towns tactics (like announcing fake roles for themselves, hoping to draw out APTX).

Well, at least the FBI is now a bit different from the other roles and not just a "police that can't arrest" or "detective that can't interrogate" anymore. Not sure about the usefulness of James's ability, but I guess it is worth the try...

I guess Ran surviving her own action might be better form the player playing her, considering she was among the weakest town anyway.

I don't think allowing Vermouth to travel if she disguises as Makoto/Hakuba is a good idea. Especially disguising as Makoto can turn out to be very problematic since she could protect her BO fellows from lynching then repeatably. Or get immune from being lynched herself while traveling. Or force strange game situations when she is the only BO left...
I would prefer to make the preparation roles again. Missing night 1 is bad enough. But also missing the first lynching vote by default (Which could help the BO to identify the travelers) sounds too much of a disadvantage, especially for Hakuba.

Stealing is... well, I am worried it becomes too strong, especially in combination with dreams. Maybe I am worrying too much, but too me it sounds stronger than the investigation 3 Kid had before.

Finally, Kazuhas charm is really worrying me. If Vermouth disguises as Kazuha the town won't be able to kill a BO unless they outnumber the BO 2:1 and they all vote for the same player. Announcing a player to lynch in the thread itself is part of the game. Kazuha will ruin this by halfing the number of votes. A smaller number (-1 or -2) would be better I think.

[Akonyl]

I'm double posting this to bump up the topic as well,

but anyway, I just noticed the whole thing of "when a BO member is lynched, it's revealed who they have killed via poison and night-killings" is missing from the list, is that going to be done this game?

Is that in Schilloks list? D: I dunno what it's good for to reveal this. If you almost killed every BO, and one is left. You'll definitely know who he killed and you can arrest him. This will give the town an advantage at the end when there are fewer BOs left. And in that case, the town doesn't need an advantage anymore imo.

It was in the list of things we were thinking of implementing before pofa's game. And for the last BO, that was sort of the point because if there's only one BO left, and you know who it is, the game's probably going to end anyway and just having him arrested makes things go quicker. Also, I just think it would be funny to know who killed me.

[Schillok]

It was in the list of things we were thinking of implementing before pofa's game. And for the last BO, that was sort of the point because if there's only one BO left, and you know who it is, the game's probably going to end anyway and just having him arrested makes things go quicker. Also, I just think it would be funny to know who killed me.

Well, after the game the GM can release all the actions of all players, like pofa did last game.
I would prefer to keep it secret who killed whom even after lynching a BO. Of course, if that lnyched player wants he can give his "will" to the GM beforehand and confess everything. If he wants. And if the town wants to believe what he tells.

[Kleene Onigiri]

Well, at least Ayumi wears panties now... 

Yes, most important thing in the game!

Maybe it is just me, but the town seems to have gotten stronger once more (especially concerning Ran, stealing and due to arresting stopping poisoning).
Giving Gin investigate 5 is... don't know, it seems a bit odd considering I have never seen him investigate anything. He is more some kind of "executive" agent, and much less specialized on gathering information himself. It might also ruin some of towns tactics (like announcing fake roles for themselves, hoping to draw out APTX).

Although the town seems stronger, they have less investigation power. And there can be just a certain number of townpeople anyway, so not every strong role will be in the game anyway.
And I also tried to make the BO stronger in the way that the BO can pretend to be BO better.
Well need to see if it's unbalanced again or not  Well, last game the town gave out too much info and got killed with the APTX fast too.

Well, at least the FBI is now a bit different from the other roles and not just a "police that can't arrest" or "detective that can't interrogate" anymore. Not sure about the usefulness of James's ability, but I guess it is worth the try...

Oh yeah, it's a big bet I do here (James ability). Either it's way too powerful. Or it's good enough to stay like it is. Or it's completely useless (but I doubt that).

I guess Ran surviving her own action might be better form the player playing her, considering she was among the weakest town anyway.

Ran players always seemed to not want to protect and die. And I don't blame that Especially since you could protect a BO and die and thus loose a townie. That's why I changed it.

I don't think allowing Vermouth to travel if she disguises as Makoto/Hakuba is a good idea. Especially disguising as Makoto can turn out to be very problematic since she could protect her BO fellows from lynching then repeatably. Or get immune from being lynched herself while traveling. Or force strange game situations when she is the only BO left...
I would prefer to make the preparation roles again. Missing night 1 is bad enough. But also missing the first lynching vote by default (Which could help the BO to identify the travelers) sounds too much of a disadvantage, especially for Hakuba.

You're right D: Especially since the whole town tends to vote even on night 1 now. They didn't do that the earlier rounds.
I wanted to change it back because that traveling isn't used much anyway. But change it to prep.phase again and the player can choose his starting point. (nooo.... editing the list again D: )

Stealing is... well, I am worried it becomes too strong, especially in combination with dreams. Maybe I am worrying too much, but too me it sounds stronger than the investigation 3 Kid had before.

Yeah that's possible D: That's why I made those stolen items very general (no yoko fan article for example XD)
But both sides can have steal. So both can use the dream and steal together. Well, we'll see my dear test subjects >D

Finally, Kazuhas charm is really worrying me. If Vermouth disguises as Kazuha the town won't be able to kill a BO unless they outnumber the BO 2:1 and they all vote for the same player. Announcing a player to lynch in the thread itself is part of the game. Kazuha will ruin this by halfing the number of votes. A smaller number (-1 or -2) would be better I think.

Well, Kazuha need to give the charm the night before. So she won't know for 100% who'll be lynched the next day. Since one night can change everything D:
But yeah, 1/2 could be too much D:
So making it generally -1 vote?
Or maybe making it more random, so it reduces randomly 1-3 votes? Random FTW!

I'm double posting this to bump up the topic as well,

but anyway, I just noticed the whole thing of "when a BO member is lynched, it's revealed who they have killed via poison and night-killings" is missing from the list, is that going to be done this game?

Is that in Schilloks list? D: I dunno what it's good for to reveal this. If you almost killed every BO, and one is left. You'll definitely know who he killed and you can arrest him. This will give the town an advantage at the end when there are fewer BOs left. And in that case, the town doesn't need an advantage anymore imo.

It was in the list of things we were thinking of implementing before pofa's game. And for the last BO, that was sort of the point because if there's only one BO left, and you know who it is, the game's probably going to end anyway and just having him arrested makes things go quicker. Also, I just think it would be funny to know who killed me.

There won't be any fast rounds here. You'll all have to suffer and die a slow and horrible death! >D This is SPAARTAAAAA Hell round!

Well, I prefer using hints to point towards the murder instead of revealing everything after the BO's death D:
And BO can also leave a "will" like Schillok said :3 Maybe I'll add this to the rules too. So that people know they can do that.

[Schillok]

Beside, if I get the chance I will kill you again, Akonyl. 

Don't think that killing you once was enough to revenge Ayumi-chan. And of course I won't let the town catch me, so no will and you will never know who killed you. 


For the travelers it was okay to miss night 1 I guess. It could help to survive the night after all... So there is no reason to make them start in japan completely.

Random is bad... this is a game about strategy and planing (and getting foiled and fooled by other players), not about being beaten by a lucky roll... So I think Kazuhas charm should be fixed (or at least not random). -1 vote, -2 votes, -X votes (X depending on the number of remaining players)... whatever. Just not too much and not random.

[Akonyl]

Well, Kazuha need to give the charm the night before. So she won't know for 100% who'll be lynched the next day. Since one night can change everything D:
But yeah, 1/2 could be too much D:
So making it generally -1 vote?
Or maybe making it more random, so it reduces randomly 1-3 votes? Random FTW!

The game's random enough at the start imo, I don't think there should really be any dice rolls in the game itself. Though, maybe it could be 2 votes. Having to give it to the correct person does lessen its effectiveness a fair bit.

Beside, if I get the chance I will kill you again, Akonyl. 

Don't think that killing you once was enough to revenge Ayumi-chan. And of course I won't let the town catch me, so no will and you will never know who killed you. 

So, not only did you steal my ability to heal myself, but you murdered me also?

Curse you, Schillok.

[Kleene Onigiri]

Good, guess I go with -1 vote then. Since frighten can just prevent 1 vote too.

So, want me to add kobayashi and azu too? But I think the spot ability could be too strong if there is stealing + dreams too D: And if there is another role with detect, then he/she is as good as bourbon, lol XD But on the other hand, bourbon has 1 role more to pretend as. hmmm...

[Akonyl]

You might want to keep them out for now, imo. See how this round goes, because there were a fair bit of changes.

Also, even though Tequila is -1 vote also, that's basically always useful because it gives the BO a vote advantage over the town, while Kazuha's is only effective if it's the right person it saves, and even in that case she has to hope the person isn't in the BO, which is a problem Tequila doesn't have. I have no problem keeping it as 1 vote either, but I'm just saying to make it -1 because Tequila has -1 isn't necessarily balanced.

[Kleene Onigiri]

You might want to keep them out for now, imo. See how this round goes, because there were a fair bit of changes.

Also, even though Tequila is -1 vote also, that's basically always useful because it gives the BO a vote advantage over the town, while Kazuha's is only effective if it's the right person it saves, and even in that case she has to hope the person isn't in the BO, which is a problem Tequila doesn't have. I have no problem keeping it as 1 vote either, but I'm just saying to make it -1 because Tequila has -1 isn't necessarily balanced.

Yeah, know what you mean. But if I make it -2 and kazuha gives it to a BO, then the BO got an advantage of 3 votes in case they have tequila.
And so it's just a max of 2 votes.

Sorry for changing so much :p

[Akonyl]

You might want to keep them out for now, imo. See how this round goes, because there were a fair bit of changes.

Also, even though Tequila is -1 vote also, that's basically always useful because it gives the BO a vote advantage over the town, while Kazuha's is only effective if it's the right person it saves, and even in that case she has to hope the person isn't in the BO, which is a problem Tequila doesn't have. I have no problem keeping it as 1 vote either, but I'm just saying to make it -1 because Tequila has -1 isn't necessarily balanced.

Yeah, know what you mean. But if I make it -2 and kazuha gives it to a BO, then the BO got an advantage of 3 votes in case they have tequila.
And so it's just a max of 2 votes.

Sorry for changing so much :p

no problem with changing it, I just don't want the game's balance to go completely out of whack and require more fixing to make people happy about it.

And that's true about Kazuha, but then that's her fault, and the town can all blame her when everybody dies. Sounds good to me imo.

[xpon]

sorry for asking ... so in current rules and roles... i want to ask if this is true=

1. Vermouth dont have scent. and dont get revealed by observation! (if thaat true .. how on earth we can detect her anyway?)

2. Sherry can follow in the next day even if she got a scent the day before! (no penalty?)

3. black suitcase is not just 1x a game but an every day ability like the bow-tie

4. camel and jodie lose their abilities to investigate! ( if this true.. then why dont we make them chose when ever they want to observe or investigate)


also i notice that you dont tell that vermouth cant be disguise as eri... the previous round prevent this right?


got another question!. what if kid is in jailed. ( we know him is kid.. and eri is in the game.. if eri decide to let him free.. then the police will immidiately arrest him again!

[Schillok]

1. Vermouth dont have scent. and dont get revealed by observation! (if thaat true .. how on earth we can detect her anyway?)

Vermouth HAS a scent. So Sherry will find out she is BO when she follows Vermouth.

The most easiest ways to do that are:
- Sherry following her
- Detective Boys identifying her (either by looking for Vermouth directly (true) or getting a false result when checking for her claimed role)
- Kaito Kid stealing an "impossible" item combination from her (like schoolbook + gun)
- Investigator looking for her disguise
- Investigator catching her kill
- James using Special Investigate to find out one of her previous killings
- protector/healer saving her target
- Sonoko, when Vermouth kills her BFF
- dreams

2. Sherry can follow in the next day even if she got a scent the day before! (no penalty?)

It depends on the GM; but I would suggest she has no scent penalty.

3. black suitcase is not just 1x a game but an every day ability like the bow-tie

Yes, the suitcase can be given out every day (like the other items as well), so except during night 1 it can be used during each night. However, since it has to be given out during the day it requires some planing ahead and since it will not give any results the town is not completely defenseless against it.

4. camel and jodie lose their abilities to investigate! ( if this true.. then why dont we make them chose when ever they want to observe or investigate)

Because they should be different from the other investigators we removed their investigate ability (they where just Detectives who couldn't interrogate or police with slightly more investigations that could not arrest). Being able to choose what they want to do would be too strong.

also i notice that you dont tell that vermouth cant be disguise as eri... the previous round prevent this right?

Yes, Eri can't be disguised as. This is mainly because the ability to get people out of jail is too strong for the BO to have and pretty much useless for KID to have since he is the one most likely ending up in prison.

got another question!. what if kid is in jailed. ( we know him is kid.. and eri is in the game.. if eri decide to let him free.. then the police will immidiately arrest him again!

If Eri frees a player that player can not be arrested for exactly the same crime again. If Vermouth was arrested for disguising as Araide the police can't arrest her again because of that crime (but for any other crime - e.g. killing - she can). Similar for KID: If he was arrested for having his role revealed to a police then freeing him will prevent another arrest, even if there is still police in the game. However he could still be arrested for stealing or disguising. If KID was arrested for stealing and is released then he might be auto-arrested again once the police learns he must be KID (and not Akemi).

[xpon]

okay... now that make me glad.. and sorry for the vermouth part.. i mean this

* Vermouth, Mafia Disguiser
- Prep. action: Disguise
- Interrogation: "not BO", if not disguised: "BO"
- Scent: yes
- Disguise: no
- Steal-able Items: gun, car-keys, panties, alcohol + items from disguise

i mean the interrogation... so she can pass shinichi / conan/heiji/hakuba right?

this and the observe make her more hidden right but at least if she still have a scent then it's still okay... because if we have 1 more BO member that dont have a scent ... then it is a BIG TROUBLE!

---

4. camel and jodie lose their abilities to investigate! ( if this true.. then why dont we make them chose when ever they want to observe or investigate)

Because they should be different from the other investigators we removed their investigate ability (they where just Detectives who couldn't interrogate or police with slightly more investigations that could not arrest). Being able to choose what they want to do would be too strong.

but if they reveal thei observe result.. then it look like they claimed as either Jodie nor camel....(aptx easy target)

and it also happen to okiya.. if he is okiya then telling the result.. then the BO will know for sure right! that is a disaster for okiya...

because bourbon dont need to really check the BO member right!

how about we use a drop box.. a postal box.. so if someone want to gave a result as anonim they can put it there... only the truth info only...