Mafia Round 6 (Town Wins!)

[Conia]

http://forums.dctp.ws/viewtopic.php?p=98915#p98915

is where "my" official  rules are. 

And considering Okiya's First Aid:

    * May alternatively choose one player to give First Aid at night. Someone who received First Aid will not die immediately if killed, but will instead be severely wounded. A severely wounded character can not vote for lynching, and will die at the next nightfall, but has learned his attackers identity (unless it was a sniper) and may freely talk about it (and anything else, of course - until he dies).

It does make Okiya a stronger character, but choosing the right person is the bitch, so I get why you say it is a weak character. mmm... so, if a BO (not sniper) "kills" somebody on Night 1, but the character has First Aid, he/she will be severely wounded. Day 1 comes, the GM announces there's a character wounded? or the GM just says nobody died last Night?
cause revealing the name of the wounded will leave the BO heavily exposed.

[Callid]

http://forums.dctp.ws/viewtopic.php?p=98915#p98915

is where "my" official  rules are. 

And considering Okiya's First Aid:

    * May alternatively choose one player to give First Aid at night. Someone who received First Aid will not die immediately if killed, but will instead be severely wounded. A severely wounded character can not vote for lynching, and will die at the next nightfall, but has learned his attackers identity (unless it was a sniper) and may freely talk about it (and anything else, of course - until he dies).

It does make Okiya a stronger character, but choosing the right person is the bitch, so I get why you say it is a weak character. mmm... so, if a BO (not sniper) "kills" somebody on Night 1, but the character has First Aid, he/she will be severely wounded. Day 1 comes, the GM announces there's a character wounded? or the GM just says nobody died last Night?
cause revealing the name of the wounded will leave the BO heavily exposed.

I think the wounded is revealed, but not his identity. And yes, that will most likely lead to the death of one BO, just as Sonoko can do.

[Conia]

http://forums.dctp.ws/viewtopic.php?p=98915#p98915

is where "my" official  rules are. 

And considering Okiya's First Aid:

    * May alternatively choose one player to give First Aid at night. Someone who received First Aid will not die immediately if killed, but will instead be severely wounded. A severely wounded character can not vote for lynching, and will die at the next nightfall, but has learned his attackers identity (unless it was a sniper) and may freely talk about it (and anything else, of course - until he dies).

It does make Okiya a stronger character, but choosing the right person is the bitch, so I get why you say it is a weak character. mmm... so, if a BO (not sniper) "kills" somebody on Night 1, but the character has First Aid, he/she will be severely wounded. Day 1 comes, the GM announces there's a character wounded? or the GM just says nobody died last Night?
cause revealing the name of the wounded will leave the BO heavily exposed.

I think the wounded is revealed, but not his identity. And yes, that will most likely lead to the death of one BO, just as Sonoko can do.

Ok. Added

[Kleene Onigiri]

• Lovers: When two people become lovers, they must commit suicide if one of them dies either by lynching or at the hands of the mafia.  They both know the identity of the other and are allowed to and expected to consult with each other on who to lynch. The lovers can achieve a lover's victory if they are the only ones remaining at the end of the game or if Yumi is dead and there is a stalemate between the townspeople and the mafia.  This is the only way for the lovers to win the game. If they are both townspeople then they do not win if the Townspeople win and if they are both mafia they do not win when the mafia wins.  It is possible that a Poor Lover is chosen at the start of the game.  They are in love with one of the lovers and, if the targeted dies, they also die.  However, if the secondary lover dies then poor lover will save the targeted lover from committing suicide and they will become lovers afterward.

* Yumi, Amor

• [li]Investigator 2
• Chooses one or two pairings (depending on the number of players) in the preparation phase. They become lovers, and either kills himself if the other dies. No protector can protect a lover from suicide and no healer can heal him/her afterwards.
• May also choose the Poor Lover. (S)He is in love with one of the lovers, but the target of his/her love isn't. If the targeted gets killed, both the true lover and the Poor one kill themselves. However, if the other lover is killed, the targeted one will be hindered from suicide by the Poor Lover, and they become lovers afterwards.
• May arrest anyone at night for any crime (killing, disguising, slandering, abetting a murder). Again, the action has to be specified (mangaluva killed Callid). However, if the person did NOT commit the crime it has been accused of, the arresting fails and the police officer has to leave the police (becoming a commoner) and his identity gets revealed. An arrested person may still talk freely and its identity remains secret, but it's otherwise considered dead (and can therefore not get killed).

Yumi doesn't choose a poor lover, but in the keyword section you didn't strike-through the poor lover part. (just a notice )
You don't explain how the lovers will win. That they win together with the town or with the BO if they are town/town or BO/BO. And that they have to kill everybody when they are BO/town and that they win in a stalemate between BO vs. town. (afaik, these are the current rules?)

Other Rules

• [li]Bo can kill BO if they so wish.
• During the night, several actions may be taken.  In order to avoid confusion, some actions have been given precedence over others.  This is most easily written as...
  Arresting > Killing > All other actions
  So if Takagi decides to arrest Vodka for killing Heiji, Vodka decides to kill Takagi, and Takagi also decides to investigate something or other, the activities of the night will be such.  Takagi will successfully arrest Vodka and will therefore not be killed and he will also get his investigations in.  If Takagi does not or fails to arrest Vodka then Takagi will be killed and he will not get to investigate.
• Don't ask the moderator for information about other players' roles or try to influence moderator tasks (e.g. ask them to not include players in dreams).  It is frowned upon.
• The mafia is allowed to and is expected to consult with each other on who to kill during the night and who to lynch during the day.  You may all vote differently if you wish.
• If Vermouth and 1412 are somehow in the same game and somehow choose the same person to disguise as, they will both disguise as the same role and the targeted individual will get a new role.
• Mafia members can only kill once until all other mafia members have killed once.  Then they each get a second turn to kill.

Maybe add/modify:
- You may not copy/screenshot etc. the PM from the GM to proof your role to someone else. But you can claim to be your role, whether it's your real role or not.
- You can PM people and post without restrictions (except the GM stuff, see above) when you're alive. You may not talk about your investigations/suspicions/clues when you're dead (PM or not). But you may still talk about other stuff not concerning the gameplay. (You may complain to the BO for being killed for example. But you may not complain to a specific player and "hint" that he could be a BO member)
When you're arrested, you can still talk freely (PMing or posting in the thread). Also about your clues/investigations etc. Otherwise you're considered dead (can't use abilities, can't vote...)
- Note: When you checked your PMs and/or wrote a PM, people can check this on the status page. So to not reveal your actions, just refresh the index page of the forum before logging out.
- You have to PM the GM to vote/use your ability. Posting in the thread doesn't count. Everybody may vote for the lynching (BO too) and the votes will be posted in public. [that's already described in the "you don't know how to play mafia?". But the "votes will be public" isn't. And it's better to have that repeated so people will definitely know ;p]
- If you don't have time or you'll travel somewhere and can't play for some days or you want to quit the game completely, at least notify the GM.

* Gin, Mafia slanderer.

• Can slander anyone at night, this will make their "alignment" change to the opposite as far as detectives are concerned.
• Has a part in deciding whom to kill.

• Can kill at night if ordered by Anakota, but only if no other alive BO member were assigned to kill someone less often.

* Vermouth, Mafia disguiser

• In the preparation phase, she'll choose a player (not a role) to disguise as. She'll be just like this role by any means and will even have his special abilities (if any), yet she still remains a member of the Mafia. If she chooses someone also active in the preparation phase, it will be treated as if she had chosen a commoner. The one she disguised at will get a new role. Her disguise is discovered if she dies.  If she is interrogated she will appear as non-BO (only if she is disguised).  Sherry's sense and investigations still work on her, though.
• Has a part in deciding whom to kill.

• Can kill at night if ordered by Anakota, but only if no other alive BO member were assigned to kill someone less often.

Slandering works just against interrogation, and not on investigation.
Since KID has investigation 3, I suggested to give vermouth a ability too in case that slandering doesn't affect the investigation. [ in the role-discussion thread: http://forums.dctp.ws/viewtopic.php?p=103028#p103028Dunno if I was simply ignored or whatever, but no one said anything about my suggestion D:

* Vodka, Mafia intimidator

• Can intimidate people so that they can't take their night action.
• Not in game yet
• Has a part in deciding whom to kill.

Not implemented? 

* Pisco, Mafia Eraser

• Has a part in deciding who to kill

• Can kill at night if ordered by Anakota, but only if no other alive BO member were assigned to kill someone less often.
• Once per game the Eraser can remove the body of the victim of the nightly killing. The town and the BO will only learn what player died, but not his/her role. If the victim didn't die during that night or if the action was hindered it can be used again.

I would also explain whether Pisco get's to know the identity or not.

*Irish, Mafia Abductor

• Can kill at night if ordered by Anakota, but only if no other alive BO member were assigned to kill someone less often.
• Irish will abduct one character that is not played by any player during might 1. The GM will send him the name of one random town-sided character not in the game.
• When Irish is killed his abducted victim will be discovered and the name becomes known to the town.

Not sure if I got it right. But I think it's supposed to be like this:
Kogoro is not in the game and Irish abducts Kogoro. So Irish will pretend to be Kogoro I guess? Does that mean he'll get his abilities too or not? (like Vermouth) If he doesn't get the abilities, I don't see the use of this ability. Since you can ask Bourbon what character isn't ingame and pretend to be him/her. Only use would be when there is no Bourbon ingame and you get a character that's not ingame for sure.
Also, if Irish pretends to be Kogoro, and Okiya checks if Kogoro is ingame. Does he get a "yes, Kogoro is ingame" or "no, there is no Kogoro"?

* Megure, police leader

• Investigator 4
• May arrest anyone at night for any crime (killing, disguising, slandering, abetting a murder), even after taking another action. Again, the action has to be specified (mangaluva helped Conia in killing Callid). However, if the person did NOT commit the crime it has been accused of, the police officer has to leave the police (becoming a commoner) and his identity gets revealed. An arrested person may still talk freely and its identity remains secret, but it's otherwise considered dead (and can therefore not get killed).
• May order a house search at night. This action cannot be hindered, since even the Trickster can't trick the many police officers involved in the search. This will reveal everything about the target, all its doings since the start of the game, its disguise, role etc.. However, if the target did not commit a crime, Megure is forced to leave the police, becoming a commoner and his identity gets revealed.

* Satou/Takagi/Shiratori, police officer

• Investigator 4
• May arrest anyone at night for any crime (killing, disguising, slandering, abetting a murder). Again, the action has to be specified (mangaluva killed Callid). However, if the person did NOT commit the crime it has been accused of, the police officer has to leave the police (becoming a commoner) and his identity gets revealed. An arrested person may still talk freely and its identity remains secret, but it's otherwise considered dead (and can therefore not get killed).

@arresting: If a police officer arrests someone and he/she didn't commit the crime. Will he/she still be arrested or not? (there were 2 version once "yes, still be arrested" "no, won't be arrested")
@leaving police: He will become a commoner. So he will lose his arresting/search ability. But will he/she lose his investigation ability completely too? Or maybe still be able to investigate 1? (becoming a private detective)

* Makoto, foreign protector

• Does not reside in Japan. As long as he does not decide to travel to Japan (which would require either the following day or night), he is handled as if he were arrested. He may also leave Japan at any time, to the same conditions as above.
• May choose to protect any number of people at day. If one of the protected people is going to get lynched, he will jump in and stop the lynching. Since he's much better in self-defence than Ran, he will not die in the process. Therefore the meant-to-be-lynched stays alive (and his identity remains secret).
• May also choose one individual to protect at night. If said individual is about to be killed by the BO, he again protectes the individual. The protected individual and Makoto then learn the identity of the attacker (!).
• If tricked while protecting, the protection will fail, but Makoto will still stay alive and learn the attackers identity.
• Can protect only once (if his protection was not needed, he can simply go on protecting). After he successfully protected (or was tricked and failed), he will get called away instantly to a Karate championship and can not return to Japan for the rest of the game.

There was a version, that if Makoto protected someone, he'll fly to the karate championship the next phase. He has to stay 1 phase and can fly back the next phase and can protect someone again.

* Sonoko, best friend

• May choose someone to be her best friend in the preparation phase. She learns everything he knows, and may pretend to be him in public so that he's saved. If he's killed, she learns the attacker's identity. They both are aware of each others identity.
• To choose someone, she gives a number of suggestions to the GM.  The GM randomly chooses someone out of these for her to befriend.  She may not befriend any BO member except for Vermouth.  In this case she will befriend Vermouth's disguise and not learn her true identity.

You wanted her to choose 5 players, maybe adding that to the description.
You also said that she can't befriend BO, but you weren't sure about Vermouth. You also said she can't befriend DBs/lovers. Maybe adding that to the description too?

Sonoko: Will choose 5 players to befriend on the Prep. Phase. The GM will rule out BO,DBs and lovers out of that list And picks randomly from the remaining players.

* Mitsuhiko/Ayumi/Genta, Detective Boys

• Know the identities of all members of the Detective Boys (except Conan and Haibara).
• Cannot be disguised as.
• Decide to investigate one person role (Akonyl is Sonoko, Callid is Eisuke, mangaluva is Bourbon) together during the day.

Is it possible to slander them? Although it's called investigate, it's not the normal investigation. Just asking
To hinder/trick them, do you need to only trick (maybe slander) one DB? Or the one that's "in charge"/that did the investigation?

* Matsuda, sort of ghost

• Matsuda is an NPC, controlled by the GM. Every night, random people will be given dreams containing correct random information, and other players will receive random false information.  The information is either all true or all false. 

Dreams: This is what I planned for dreams (I'm still accepting more opinions): Every night, I'll send only 1 dream to 1 player picked randomly (can be BO) with 3 facts: 2 false facts and 1 true fact. So, dreams will only give 1 true fact (which you have to figure out which one is real). Of course, the other 2 false facts can also help you [/list]

You wanted to change the dreams?

[Schillok]

Slandering works just against interrogation, and not on investigation.
Since KID has investigation 3, I suggested to give vermouth a ability too in case that slandering doesn't affect the investigation. [ in the role-discussion thread: http://forums.dctp.ws/viewtopic.php?p=103028#p103028Dunno if I was simply ignored or whatever, but no one said anything about my suggestion D:

Vermouth is already one of the strongest BO. I think there is no reason to give her even another ability.
Maybe we can allow her to chose a second player during preparation. Then if she can't take the role of the first one (BO, DB or active during preparation) she will get the second role. Of course the player will not know if his/her first choice was not available.

* Pisco, Mafia Eraser

• Has a part in deciding who to kill

• Can kill at night if ordered by Anakota, but only if no other alive BO member were assigned to kill someone less often.
• Once per game the Eraser can remove the body of the victim of the nightly killing. The town and the BO will only learn what player died, but not his/her role. If the victim didn't die during that night or if the action was hindered it can be used again.

I would also explain whether Pisco get's to know the identity or not.

He should not get to know the identities.
As I said, to strengthen him a bit we could make that all of his victims (players he is assigned to to kill) will not be identified. (So if he gets to kill twice there will be two unknown bodies).

*Irish, Mafia Abductor

• Can kill at night if ordered by Anakota, but only if no other alive BO member were assigned to kill someone less often.
• Irish will abduct one character that is not played by any player during might 1. The GM will send him the name of one random town-sided character not in the game.
• When Irish is killed his abducted victim will be discovered and the name becomes known to the town.

Not sure if I got it right. But I think it's supposed to be like this:
Kogoro is not in the game and Irish abducts Kogoro. So Irish will pretend to be Kogoro I guess? Does that mean he'll get his abilities too or not? (like Vermouth) If he doesn't get the abilities, I don't see the use of this ability. Since you can ask Bourbon what character isn't ingame and pretend to be him/her. Only use would be when there is no Bourbon ingame and you get a character that's not ingame for sure.
Also, if Irish pretends to be Kogoro, and Okiya checks if Kogoro is ingame. Does he get a "yes, Kogoro is ingame" or "no, there is no Kogoro"?

Yeah, this is how I intended that role. He just learns the name of someone not in the game. He does not have his abilities. Bourbon will take a while to find a role not in the game (at least sometimes). Irish will have one right in round 1. In exchange he will not be able to search for more.
If we want to make him stronger we might remove the "The abducted victim will be discovered" clause - that way other BO members could use the same cover without having to fear to be exposed when Irish gets killed.
Okiya will not find the abducted person. So he should be a priority target for Irish, if they get to know each other.   

@arresting: If a police officer arrests someone and he/she didn't commit the crime. Will he/she still be arrested or not? (there were 2 version once "yes, still be arrested" "no, won't be arrested")
@leaving police: He will become a commoner. So he will lose his arresting/search ability. But will he/she lose his investigation ability completely too? Or maybe still be able to investigate 1? (becoming a private detective)

@arrest: No, if the accused crime is not correct then the individual will not be arrested. At least that is the latest version of arresting.
@leaving police: I think he should lose all of his/her abilities. No more investigating.

* Mitsuhiko/Ayumi/Genta, Detective Boys

• Know the identities of all members of the Detective Boys (except Conan and Haibara).
• Cannot be disguised as.
• Decide to investigate one person role (Akonyl is Sonoko, Callid is Eisuke, mangaluva is Bourbon) together during the day.

Is it possible to slander them? Although it's called investigate, it's not the normal investigation. Just asking
To hinder/trick them, do you need to only trick (maybe slander) one DB? Or the one that's "in charge"/that did the investigation?

Slandering only changes the allignment. So it has only effect on interrogations (performed during the night). Slandering has absolutely no influence on investigations.
Though I agree we should change what they do into "questioning", "asking", "following" or something else that shows it is different from interrogation and investigation.

[Callid]

As far as I understand my rules  ;D
Therefore I'll only answer questions on MY roles  ;)

Slandering works just against interrogation, and not on investigation.
Since KID has investigation 3, I suggested to give vermouth a ability too in case that slandering doesn't affect the investigation. [ in the role-discussion thread: http://forums.dctp.ws/viewtopic.php?p=103028#p103028Dunno if I was simply ignored or whatever, but no one said anything about my suggestion D:

Vermouth can kill. That's enough of compensation. Also, slandering does only work against interrogation. Yes, that's true, slandering isn't that strong - but actually, with our incredible amount of rules and roles, nothing is extraordinary strong anymore. Instead, everyone has more or less equal chances.

@leaving police: He will become a commoner. So he will lose his arresting/search ability. But will he/she lose his investigation ability completely too? Or maybe still be able to investigate 1? (becoming a private detective)

No, nothing. He'll lose everything. But he has the large bonus that everyone will trust him, because he is obviously townsfolk, and he may become the one to connect the various "town unions" together. And, after all, it is a punishment. He shouldn't be better off afterwards.

There was a version, that if Makoto protected someone, he'll fly to the karate championship the next phase. He has to stay 1 phase and can fly back the next phase and can protect someone again.

Yes. That was because he actually "died" or gaming purposes. Now he's just "out of order" for three phases. I'd suggest to change that.

You wanted her to choose 5 players, maybe adding that to the description.
You also said that she can't befriend BO, but you weren't sure about Vermouth. You also said she can't befriend DBs/lovers. Maybe adding that to the description too?

I'd suggest to let her choose any number she wishes. Therefore she can make sure she befriends someone, but than it will be completely random, or she may choose only three or so, but then  it may happen that she can befriend noone.

Is it possible to slander them? Although it's called investigate, it's not the normal investigation. Just asking Cheesy
To hinder/trick them, do you need to only trick (maybe slander) one DB? Or the one that's "in charge"/that did the investigation?

Read carefully. It says during the day. You cannot trick, slander or whatever during day.

You wanted to change the dreams?

Obviously he does. Although I don't agree, these dreams are pretty much useless. The former dreams were stronger. Also, it doesn't make for Matsuda to send a dream that includes more false than right information.
BTW, as noone did so before, I'd explicitly allow to quote dreams and post or PM them, even after they've been altered. That was what I had in mind when I created them, but it seems to me that this is rarely done. Also, I'd allow fake dreams, so everyone might "write" a dream by themselves and present them as a GM dream. However, you'd need to explicitly allow this, because it's near the rules that you mustn't quote the GM's messages.
I even thought of re-establishing Matsuda as a PC (and allow him to speak to those who died, so that he'll be counselled by a court of the death, therefore allowing both Matsuda and the dead to actually do useful communication), but we would need much more players to do so, otherwise the townsfolk will miss this one player.

[Sakina]

Obviously he does. Although I don't agree, these dreams are pretty much useless. The former dreams were stronger. Also, it doesn't make for Matsuda to send a dream that includes more false than right information.
BTW, as noone did so before, I'd explicitly allow to quote dreams and post or PM them, even after they've been altered. That was what I had in mind when I created them, but it seems to me that this is rarely done. Also, I'd allow fake dreams, so everyone might "write" a dream by themselves and present them as a GM dream. However, you'd need to explicitly allow this, because it's near the rules that you mustn't quote the GM's messages.

I also agree that quoting dreams should be an exception to that rule. 

[Schillok]

Obviously he does. Although I don't agree, these dreams are pretty much useless. The former dreams were stronger. Also, it doesn't make for Matsuda to send a dream that includes more false than right information.
BTW, as noone did so before, I'd explicitly allow to quote dreams and post or PM them, even after they've been altered. That was what I had in mind when I created them, but it seems to me that this is rarely done. Also, I'd allow fake dreams, so everyone might "write" a dream by themselves and present them as a GM dream. However, you'd need to explicitly allow this, because it's near the rules that you mustn't quote the GM's messages.

I also agree that quoting dreams should be an exception to that rule. 

I am against quoting dreams. It is a dream - you can't retell exactly what you dreamed. You will have to use your own words to tell other players what you dreamed about.

[Kleene Onigiri]

Slandering works just against interrogation, and not on investigation.
Since KID has investigation 3, I suggested to give vermouth a ability too in case that slandering doesn't affect the investigation. [ in the role-discussion thread: http://forums.dctp.ws/viewtopic.php?p=103028#p103028Dunno if I was simply ignored or whatever, but no one said anything about my suggestion D:

Vermouth can kill. That's enough of compensation. Also, slandering does only work against interrogation. Yes, that's true, slandering isn't that strong - but actually, with our incredible amount of rules and roles, nothing is extraordinary strong anymore. Instead, everyone has more or less equal chances.

Why can KID investigate then? He's a magician not a police officer. He'll be too strong then. And there is nothing that can prevent investigations yet. And most disguises have abilities against the BO actually, so she can't do much with them. And like the other game showed, even if you think you got that role out of the game, Kid could have disguised as the same role.
And imo, the BO has pretty weak abilities right now and still can't do much against the town.

@leaving police: He will become a commoner. So he will lose his arresting/search ability. But will he/she lose his investigation ability completely too? Or maybe still be able to investigate 1? (becoming a private detective)

No, nothing. He'll lose everything. But he has the large bonus that everyone will trust him, because he is obviously townsfolk, and he may become the one to connect the various "town unions" together. And, after all, it is a punishment. He shouldn't be better off afterwards.

Just asking, since that was discussed some time ago too

There was a version, that if Makoto protected someone, he'll fly to the karate championship the next phase. He has to stay 1 phase and can fly back the next phase and can protect someone again.

Yes. That was because he actually "died" or gaming purposes. Now he's just "out of order" for three phases. I'd suggest to change that.

With the current rules, he's not "out of order" for 3 phases, but is "arrested" actually.

You wanted her to choose 5 players, maybe adding that to the description.
You also said that she can't befriend BO, but you weren't sure about Vermouth. You also said she can't befriend DBs/lovers. Maybe adding that to the description too?

I'd suggest to let her choose any number she wishes. Therefore she can make sure she befriends someone, but than it will be completely random, or she may choose only three or so, but then  it may happen that she can befriend noone.

Maybe changing it to: "choosing 3 or more" But my point was to write it into the description.

Is it possible to slander them? Although it's called investigate, it's not the normal investigation. Just asking Cheesy
To hinder/trick them, do you need to only trick (maybe slander) one DB? Or the one that's "in charge"/that did the investigation?

Read carefully. It says during the day. You cannot trick, slander or whatever during day.

I know it's during the day. But afaik last round Ai was tricked and it worked for the day too (or sakina forgot to tell the results to Ai)
Well, since it's doesn't seem clear, whether the night activity will affect a day activity or not, maybe that should be cleared too.

You wanted to change the dreams?

Obviously he does. Although I don't agree, these dreams are pretty much useless. The former dreams were stronger. Also, it doesn't make for Matsuda to send a dream that includes more false than right information.
BTW, as noone did so before, I'd explicitly allow to quote dreams and post or PM them, even after they've been altered. That was what I had in mind when I created them, but it seems to me that this is rarely done. Also, I'd allow fake dreams, so everyone might "write" a dream by themselves and present them as a GM dream. However, you'd need to explicitly allow this, because it's near the rules that you mustn't quote the GM's messages.
I even thought of re-establishing Matsuda as a PC (and allow him to speak to those who died, so that he'll be counselled by a court of the death, therefore allowing both Matsuda and the dead to actually do useful communication), but we would need much more players to do so, otherwise the townsfolk will miss this one player.

Would be good to know what you can actually do and what not. I thought you may not quote GM dreams.
But I like the new dream system from conia better. (but he didn't implemented it into the roles yet)

Slandering works just against interrogation, and not on investigation.
Since KID has investigation 3, I suggested to give vermouth a ability too in case that slandering doesn't affect the investigation. [ in the role-discussion thread: http://forums.dctp.ws/viewtopic.php?p=103028#p103028Dunno if I was simply ignored or whatever, but no one said anything about my suggestion D:

Vermouth is already one of the strongest BO. I think there is no reason to give her even another ability.
Maybe we can allow her to chose a second player during preparation. Then if she can't take the role of the first one (BO, DB or active during preparation) she will get the second role. Of course the player will not know if his/her first choice was not available.

Like I said, I think the BO doesn't have enough abilities compared to the town.

* Pisco, Mafia Eraser

• Has a part in deciding who to kill

• Can kill at night if ordered by Anakota, but only if no other alive BO member were assigned to kill someone less often.
• Once per game the Eraser can remove the body of the victim of the nightly killing. The town and the BO will only learn what player died, but not his/her role. If the victim didn't die during that night or if the action was hindered it can be used again.

I would also explain whether Pisco get's to know the identity or not.

He should not get to know the identities.
As I said, to strengthen him a bit we could make that all of his victims (players he is assigned to to kill) will not be identified. (So if he gets to kill twice there will be two unknown bodies).

Just my point. I'd think it's better when Pisco get to know the identity.(well, he sees the body, so he can investigate who it is) If they don't get to know it, then it's a disadvantage for the BO. And having a ability that is disadvantageous  for themselves is strange. (Example: Pisco erases Sherry and doesn't get to know it. They will still look out for sherry since she's a big thread.)
Since it's not clear how it is, it's good to write it into the description.

*Irish, Mafia Abductor

• Can kill at night if ordered by Anakota, but only if no other alive BO member were assigned to kill someone less often.
• Irish will abduct one character that is not played by any player during might 1. The GM will send him the name of one random town-sided character not in the game.
• When Irish is killed his abducted victim will be discovered and the name becomes known to the town.

Not sure if I got it right. But I think it's supposed to be like this:
Kogoro is not in the game and Irish abducts Kogoro. So Irish will pretend to be Kogoro I guess? Does that mean he'll get his abilities too or not? (like Vermouth) If he doesn't get the abilities, I don't see the use of this ability. Since you can ask Bourbon what character isn't ingame and pretend to be him/her. Only use would be when there is no Bourbon ingame and you get a character that's not ingame for sure.
Also, if Irish pretends to be Kogoro, and Okiya checks if Kogoro is ingame. Does he get a "yes, Kogoro is ingame" or "no, there is no Kogoro"?

Yeah, this is how I intended that role. He just learns the name of someone not in the game. He does not have his abilities. Bourbon will take a while to find a role not in the game (at least sometimes). Irish will have one right in round 1. In exchange he will not be able to search for more.
If we want to make him stronger we might remove the "The abducted victim will be discovered" clause - that way other BO members could use the same cover without having to fear to be exposed when Irish gets killed.
Okiya will not find the abducted person. So he should be a priority target for Irish, if they get to know each other.   

Somehow that ability is pretty useless without him getting the abilities of the victim imo. And Okiya will get a "Kogoro is not in the game"? Even more useless then. (that's my opinion :x)

@arresting: If a police officer arrests someone and he/she didn't commit the crime. Will he/she still be arrested or not? (there were 2 version once "yes, still be arrested" "no, won't be arrested")
@leaving police: He will become a commoner. So he will lose his arresting/search ability. But will he/she lose his investigation ability completely too? Or maybe still be able to investigate 1? (becoming a private detective)

@arrest: No, if the accused crime is not correct then the individual will not be arrested. At least that is the latest version of arresting.
@leaving police: I think he should lose all of his/her abilities. No more investigating.

That's why I'm asking. In one version it was like that, in another it was different again. And new GM, new rules I guess? So I better ask beforehand, so everyone knows how it is this time. (I know I'm annoying with my questions :p)

* Mitsuhiko/Ayumi/Genta, Detective Boys

• Know the identities of all members of the Detective Boys (except Conan and Haibara).
• Cannot be disguised as.
• Decide to investigate one person role (Akonyl is Sonoko, Callid is Eisuke, mangaluva is Bourbon) together during the day.

Is it possible to slander them? Although it's called investigate, it's not the normal investigation. Just asking
To hinder/trick them, do you need to only trick (maybe slander) one DB? Or the one that's "in charge"/that did the investigation?

Slandering only changes the allignment. So it has only effect on interrogations (performed during the night). Slandering has absolutely no influence on investigations.
Though I agree we should change what they do into "questioning", "asking", "following" or something else that shows it is different from interrogation and investigation.

Well, it could affect the DB's (but that depends if the night ability can affect a day ability) Since it could change the alignment from "yes" to "no" XD Again, just asking before hand to make things clear D:


Btw. how much of an disadvantage do you want to give the BO? If day activities can't be touched by night activities, then you can't do anything agains Sherry, DB's etc, "besides" killing them. And you need to kill the DB 2-3x
Also Vermouth can be easily discovered by investigation too. Once there is a "he/she is disguised" she's as good as dead.
I dunno, but for me the BO has a pretty low chance to win the game with the current rules/abilities. (and where is my Vodka? T-T)

I think conia should say which versions of the roles/rules are in this game/round. Since it's his game.

[Conia]

I'm already regreting being the GM 0_0 ...
jk

I updated a lot considering the last posts. You should re-read Rules and Keywords and discussed roles Things that were discussed and are not in the first post, means I decided not to include them.

[Schillok]

Why can KID investigate then? He's a magician not a police officer. He'll be too strong then. And there is nothing that can prevent investigations yet. And most disguises have abilities against the BO actually, so she can't do much with them. And like the other game showed, even if you think you got that role out of the game, Kid could have disguised as the same role.
And imo, the BO has pretty weak abilities right now and still can't do much against the town.

Kid usually investigates before a heist. He usually knows beforehand of traps and alarms. He is great in following people without them noticing. And listing and watching what they do. Investigation suits him.
Without abilities, Kid would just be... the person he  copies? Then he could be that person in the first place.

Like I said, I think the BO doesn't have enough abilities compared to the town.

But Vermouth is among the strongest already. She is immune to interrogation while disguised. She gets another ability (sometimes helpful for the BO, sometime just to "prove her role") from her victim. If anyone needs a boost, it is the other BO roles.

Just my point. I'd think it's better when Pisco get to know the identity.(well, he sees the body, so he can investigate who it is) If they don't get to know it, then it's a disadvantage for the BO. And having a ability that is disadvantageous  for themselves is strange. (Example: Pisco erases Sherry and doesn't get to know it. They will still look out for sherry since she's a big thread.)
Since it's not clear how it is, it's good to write it into the description.

Then they shouldn't remove bodies with his ability randomly. Beside, unless there is a Bourbon in the game the BO would not have known there is a Sherry anyway.
I think it is best used for foolish people like me last game where I told my identity to a BO person and no one else. If they killed me in that situation (and believed my identity) they would have gained information the rest of the town did not get.

Telling him the identity directly is bad. As I said, if I were Pisco I would use the skill in night 1 all the time to find a name I (or other BO) could assume, knowing that the original owner was killed the first night.

Somehow that ability is pretty useless without him getting the abilities of the victim imo. And Okiya will get a "Kogoro is not in the game"? Even more useless then. (that's my opinion :x)

We really don't need another disguiser. Interrogation does not work on Vermouth and Anakota, and can be manipulated by Gin. It is pretty weak the way it is. What the BO needs in my opinion is a way to avoid claiming to be a character that is already in use by another player.

Well, it could affect the DB's (but that depends if the night ability can affect a day ability) Since it could change the alignment from "yes" to "no" XD Again, just asking before hand to make things clear D:

You could make the DBs investigation (which they had before) a night-ability, like all the other investigations. That way slandering and Vodka (should he make it into the game at some time...) could interfere with them.
However, remember that acting during the day also has disadvanages: The game starts with Night1 and the results of day-activities will only become known AFTER the lynching for that day. So day-actions are slower.


Btw. how much of an disadvantage do you want to give the BO? If day activities can't be touched by night activities, then you can't do anything agains Sherry, DB's etc, "besides" killing them. And you need to kill the DB 2-3x

Also Vermouth can be easily discovered by investigation too. Once there is a "he/she is disguised" she's as good as dead.

No, you have to investigate: "he/she is disguised as ". "Investigate if Kleene is disguised" would not do anything. Only "Investigate if Kleene is disguised as Ran" would work. And even that way you could still get Kid with the same chance by accident.
You could hardly catch Vermouth otherwise anyway. Because otherwise only Sherry would be able to find her.

[Callid]

I do also think we have to make the BO stronger. But we should stay to what is logical for them. And it strongly depends on the players. I haven't lost any game so far 

Also, all this discussion does not belong here. There is a role discussion thread!

Oh, and now something that's not a role: I'd say we agree on some rules, and the GM has to use these rules. Similar to what happened when I suggested a bunch of roles.  Turned out one of them was too strong, but that got corrected. Actually, I think we have to try out most rules before we can predict how they'll work - it's not that once we accepted a role, it has to stay that way.

[Kleene Onigiri]

I'm already regreting being the GM 0_0 ...
jk

I updated a lot considering the last posts. You should re-read Rules and Keywords and discussed roles Things that were discussed and are not in the first post, means I decided not to include them.

I'm sorry for being annoying T-T
But it's good that things are clear now :x

I do also think we have to make the BO stronger. But we should stay to what is logical for them. And it strongly depends on the players. I haven't lost any game so far 

Also, all this discussion does not belong here. There is a role discussion thread!

Oh, and now something that's not a role: I'd say we agree on some rules, and the GM has to use these rules. Similar to what happened when I suggested a bunch of roles.  Turned out one of them was too strong, but that got corrected. Actually, I think we have to try out most rules before we can predict how they'll work - it's not that once we accepted a role, it has to stay that way.

I lost all games so far D: So, the team I'm in will lose, and the team callid is in will win. So if Callid and me are in the same group, there will be a draw? XD

Continued/moved the discussion to the Rule thread ;p

Agree. There are some new roles this round too. We just have to try them out I guess

[Conia]

I'm already regreting being the GM 0_0 ...
jk

I updated a lot considering the last posts. You should re-read Rules and Keywords and discussed roles Things that were discussed and are not in the first post, means I decided not to include them.

I'm sorry for being annoying T-T
But it's good that things are clear now :x

Just the opposite: Thank you for making things clearer

I do also think we have to make the BO stronger. But we should stay to what is logical for them. And it strongly depends on the players. I haven't lost any game so far 

Also, all this discussion does not belong here. There is a role discussion thread!

Oh, and now something that's not a role: I'd say we agree on some rules, and the GM has to use these rules. Similar to what happened when I suggested a bunch of roles.  Turned out one of them was too strong, but that got corrected. Actually, I think we have to try out most rules before we can predict how they'll work - it's not that once we accepted a role, it has to stay that way.

I lost all games so far D: So, the team I'm in will lose, and the team callid is in will win. So if Callid and me are in the same group, there will be a draw? XD

Continued/moved the discussion to the Rule thread ;p

Agree. There are some new roles this round too. We just have to try them out I guess

I also won every game so far I was always on the townspeople side, and the only Round that the BO won was the Round I didn't played

[Tanner-kun]

I also won every game so far I was always on the townspeople side, and the only Round that the BO won was the Round I didn't played

I can't remember how many I won or lost does any one know? I was town on game 1 and 4, mafia on 2 and 3, and Lover on 5.