New Member Here - A few theories

[Soragirl6]

Seriously, Akai is a lot like Shinichi....he would rather look like himself. If he could use a mask and wig all along, he would have used a mask the whole time he was in the BO, unless someone taught him to be a "disguise master". But knowing Akai's personality as it is so far, its definitely a weird assumption to theorize he is Okiya. Not to say it isn't possible, but I can't see Akai doing something like that. Kaito Kid is someone I can see doing it because he is a magician and master of tricks.  Akai....he is no Kaito Kid....

[Chekhov MacGuffin]

I just mentioned his alias "Rye" wasn't that successful when Akai infiltrated the BO, was it? When he was trying to pretend to be different from the FBI, he was busted then. He could have very well gone into the BO as a totally different person, but he didn't, did he? All he did was change his name... And that's one of the places he SHOULD have totally disguised himself. That tells me he is not that kind of person. He wouldn't be able to pull off being a totally different person for very long based on that.

The Org didn't know Akai's face then, or he couldn't have infiltrated. There was no need for Akai to disguise anything but his true employment much like Kir's situation. Also he did fine acting; it was Camel's mistake that blew his cover. I think those two points renders this argument pretty much moot.

There are also different forms and stages of depression. James Brown said that he had been mentally messed up since the death of Akemi, in the Clash of Red and Black Case, so I doubt he would waste time pretending to be Okiya. His thing is preparing a plan of attack and going for the solution....He has a hard time being energetic anymore, so I can't see him being as smiley as Okiya is. Not that easily.

You're seriously twisting the words of the quote. The exact conversation is below.
Jodie to James: "That reminds me... Do you know where Shuu is?"
James "Nope, I'm looking for Akai-kun myself. He knows our situation, right?"
Jodie: "Yes... even about the devices this boy implanted [sic] on them... And his reaction was..."
Akai: "I see..."
Jodie: "Since then, I've heard nothing from him."
James: "It looks like he is closing himself up even more, now that he's lost his lover... That isn't to say he was friendly before though... "

Spoiler:

Basically James' point was that he isn't sharing his thoughts as much anymore, not that he did much in the first place. That's a completely different from "mentally messed up" and "has a hard time being energetic anymore."

[CC]

I just mentioned his alias "Rye" wasn't that successful when Akai infiltrated the BO, was it?

Speaking of "Rye", anyone want to join me on doing an alcohol analysis?   

All the other BO members have a name that's some form of alcohol.  The women are named after wines (Vermouth, Sherry, Chianti, etc), the men after spirits (Gin, Vodka, Calvados, Pisco, etc).  But rye isn't a spirit...it's a grain that can be used in the making of spirits, most notably whiskey, of which bourbon is a subset  8).  So maybe Bourbon's career in the BO was somehow fermented...err, I mean, fomented...by Akai's attempt to infiltrate as Rye?  Probably connected to the reason he hates Akai so much...

Also, kir isn't any one alcohol, it's actually a cocktail, a mixture of blackcurrant liquor and white wine, perhaps as an indication of her double-agent status.

[Sakina]

I just mentioned his alias "Rye" wasn't that successful when Akai infiltrated the BO, was it?

Speaking of "Rye", anyone want to join me on doing an alcohol analysis?   

All the other BO members have a name that's some form of alcohol.  The women are named after wines (Vermouth, Sherry, Chianti, etc), the men after spirits (Gin, Vodka, Calvados, Pisco, etc).  But rye isn't a spirit...it's a grain that can be used in the making of spirits, most notably whiskey, of which bourbon is a subset  8).  So maybe Bourbon's career in the BO was somehow fermented...err, I mean, fomented...by Akai's attempt to infiltrate as Rye?  Probably connected to the reason he hates Akai so much...

Also, kir isn't any one alcohol, it's actually a cocktail, a mixture of blackcurrant liquor and white wine, perhaps as an indication of her double-agent status.

I do not know much about wine but you make a pretty good point.  Based off what you said, Bourbon could be someone related to Akai.  We don't really know anything about his family.  After all, he only came into the BO after Akai was killed.  Perhaps they thought Akai would recognize this person if he became a member.... or something.

[soratothamax]

I just mentioned his alias "Rye" wasn't that successful when Akai infiltrated the BO, was it? When he was trying to pretend to be different from the FBI, he was busted then. He could have very well gone into the BO as a totally different person, but he didn't, did he? All he did was change his name... And that's one of the places he SHOULD have totally disguised himself. That tells me he is not that kind of person. He wouldn't be able to pull off being a totally different person for very long based on that.

The Org didn't know Akai's face then, or he couldn't have infiltrated. There was no need for Akai to disguise anything but his true employment much like Kir's situation. Also he did fine acting; it was Camel's mistake that blew his cover. I think those two points renders this argument pretty much moot.

There are also different forms and stages of depression. James Brown said that he had been mentally messed up since the death of Akemi, in the Clash of Red and Black Case, so I doubt he would waste time pretending to be Okiya. His thing is preparing a plan of attack and going for the solution....He has a hard time being energetic anymore, so I can't see him being as smiley as Okiya is. Not that easily.

You seriously twisting the words of the quote. The exact conversation is below.
Jodie to James: "That reminds me... Do you know where Shuu is?"
James "Nope, I'm looking for Akai-kun myself. He knows our situation, right?"
Jodie: "Yes... even about the devices this boy implanted [sic] on them... And his reaction was..."
Akai: "I see..."
Jodie: "Since then, I've heard nothing from him."
James: "It looks like he is closing himself up even more, now that he's lost his lover... That isn't to say he was friendly before though... "

Spoiler:

Basically James' point was that he isn't sharing his thoughts as much anymore, not that he did much in the first place. That's a completely different from "mentally messed up" and "has a hard time being energetic anymore."

The BO is the type of organization that can find a person's look and know if it is the FBI. that would make Akai even more suspicious to go into a "top-dog" organization like the BO and not know he is risking them discovering him, especially based on his identity. It would've made clearer sense to go into that kind of organization disguised as someone else. But he didn't. It is the risk of them knowing what he looked like by pulling up files from DNA, and finding his FBI badge and ID, anything the BO finds will risk his life. Just because they never saw hm doesn't mean he wasn't risking it. There is more information on FBI than regular commoners.

I don't see why he didn't choose to disguise himself then. Since he didn't, I can't see him randomly disguising himself as Okiya. People are playing into the coincidences that Ai had the same reaction to Okiya as she did Akai, and both seem to be good though related to the BO, and they both  brawny, and somehow seem related based on certain cases. I feel it is not going the way people think it is.

I personally think Okiya knows Akai from a previous engagement....but aren't the same person.

As far as the James Rye quote, my Japanese translation said "isolating" so to me, that means he is isolating himself for a reason. He lost his girlfriend, so how is that making him feel? Either he is angry, he is depressed, or just plain intense in personality. That type of person would not be disguising himself as a smiley, Sherlock Holmes fan, with glasses, and a wig on....

And if there are going to be hints like that, shouldn't he be drinking Rye or something?

[CC]

And if there are going to be hints like that, shouldn't he be drinking Rye or something?

Err...well, technically, he kind of is...rye is not an alcoholic beverage, it's a grain, so you can't drink it straight (well, I guess you could make a thin gruel of it, or maybe you can make rye tea, like barley tea or something).  Rye can be fermented and used in the process to make certain hard liquors, like whiskey, and bourbon is a type of whiskey...

I'm not really interested in getting in on the great debate about whether Okiya is Akai, but I just wanted to share my technical knowledge  :-\ .



Edit:  Allow me to correct myself...after looking up Maker's Mark on wikipedia, I've discovered that one of it's trademarks is that, unlike traditional bourbon, it contains NO rye and increases the amount of barley and red winter wheat in the recipe.  So...I guess Okiya was specifically drinking the brand of bourbon known for not containing any rye...not sure what to make of it yet...

[Chekhov MacGuffin]

The BO is the type of organization that can find a person's look and know if it is the FBI. that would make Akai even more suspicious to go into a "top-dog" organization like the BO and not know he is risking them discovering him, especially based on his identity. It would've made clearer sense to go into that kind of organization disguised as someone else. But he didn't. It is the risk of them knowing what he looked like by pulling up files from DNA, and finding his FBI badge and ID, anything the BO finds will risk his life. Just because they never saw hm doesn't mean he wasn't risking it. There is more information on FBI than regular commoners.

I don't see why he didn't choose to disguise himself then. Since he didn't, I can't see him randomly disguising himself as Okiya. People are playing into the coincidences that Ai had the same reaction to Okiya as she did Akai, and both seem to be good though related to the BO, and they both  brawny, and somehow seem related based on certain cases. I feel it is not going the way people think it is.

I'm sorry to sound blunt, but you have no idea what your talking about. I can't claim to know everything either, but it is common sense that random people and people in lower level law enforcement do NOT have the authorization to just pull up FBI agent's profiles like that, especially when the agents are undercover and doing infiltration missions. There isn't an organized national DNA databank with everyone's DNA; the FBI's Combined DNA Index System is comprised mostly of forensic samples and criminal samples (or potentially innocent people arrested in California for a felony...) and even then you have to go through red tape to get the identities of potential matches from the databank. Even for fingerprints, which is a much more extensive database and allows for civil as well as law enforcement searches, the FBI monitors requests to the database and I can very much imagine they can serve up a false profile if needed. And hell no is there more information available about the FBI than regular US citizens: at least info that isn't classified. Seriously, how could you think that was the case? True, some FBI agents do not work undercover, but those that are have their identities carefully protected. Also, consider the location: Japan. It's a whole new level of red tape and bureaucracy (or perhaps impossibility altogether in some cases) to slog through if the request comes from a foreign country. Kyuu might be able to comment further on this since last time I heard he/she is in the US and was pursuing a degree in forensic sciences.Are you just making this stuff up? Basic research and common sense!
Later Edit: It wouldn't make much sense for the FBI or Japan's equivalent to have comprehensive information on citizens of the other country. If Akai is a US citizen, and entered Japan as Moroboshi Dai, then he's going to be in the Japanese system as Moroboshi Dai, not an FBI agent. I have no idea what fingerprint or DNA databases are like in Japan, or what the accessibility requirements are for the law enforcement and the public, but a doubt that IDing Akai correctly would be possible.

If Akai's face was known to the Org, he wouldn't have been able to infiltrate - even in disguise. If the BO could just tell a person was FBI, then Akai would have been killed long before he became Rye. Akai was obviously NOT a known threat to the Syndicate when he started infiltrating. It would be moronic to carry around an FBI badge or real ID or wear a mask anyway; the Org probably searches agents at first to make sure they are trustworthy - I mean how would they get a tracker on Hidemi's suit without her noticing?

As far as the James Rye quote, my Japanese translation said "isolating" so to me, that means he is isolating himself for a reason. He lost his girlfriend, so how is that making him feel? Either he is angry, he is depressed, or just plain intense in personality. That type of person would not be disguising himself as a smiley, Sherlock Holmes fan, with glasses, and a wig on....

From the context of the quote, I think it is rather likely that the original meaning was along the lines of being less outspoken. I'll leave it up to someone with better japanese to confirm if that's the case. And Akai is plenty smiley already. 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10. And that isn't even a fifth of the scenes where he has some sort of smirk of smile. Since we know that he is still feeling the loss of his girlfriend, aren't all the times he is smiling a testament to his ability to bury his feelings under a mask and act like nothing is wrong? If you want proof Akai can act, that's it.

And if there are going to be hints like that, shouldn't he be drinking Rye or something?

Then why write a mystery in the first place and not just tell the readers the answer from the get go? Because Gosho doesn't want to spoonfeed us the answers, which is why he dropped hints like the prescription glasses in the deer, boar, butterfly case, Okiya's handedness, Conan recognizing Okiya's address before he met him, Haibara and Ran's reactions to Okiya, the name references to Char, and so on and so forth.

[soratothamax]

The BO is the type of organization that can find a person's look and know if it is the FBI. that would make Akai even more suspicious to go into a "top-dog" organization like the BO and not know he is risking them discovering him, especially based on his identity. It would've made clearer sense to go into that kind of organization disguised as someone else. But he didn't. It is the risk of them knowing what he looked like by pulling up files from DNA, and finding his FBI badge and ID, anything the BO finds will risk his life. Just because they never saw hm doesn't mean he wasn't risking it. There is more information on FBI than regular commoners.

I don't see why he didn't choose to disguise himself then. Since he didn't, I can't see him randomly disguising himself as Okiya. People are playing into the coincidences that Ai had the same reaction to Okiya as she did Akai, and both seem to be good though related to the BO, and they both  brawny, and somehow seem related based on certain cases. I feel it is not going the way people think it is.

I'm sorry to sound blunt, but you have no idea what your talking about. I can't claim to know everything either, but it is common sense that random people and people in lower level law enforcement do NOT have the authorization to just pull up FBI agent's profiles like that, especially when the agents are undercover and doing infiltration missions. There isn't an organized national DNA databank with everyone's DNA; the FBI's Combined DNA Index System is comprised mostly of forensic samples and criminal samples (or potentially innocent people arrested in California for a felony...) and even then you have to go through red tape to get the identities of potential matches from the databank. Even for fingerprints, which is a much more extensive database and allows for civil as well as law enforcement searches, the FBI monitors requests to the database and I can very much imagine they can serve up a false profile if needed. And hell no is there more information available about the FBI than regular US citizens: at least info that isn't classified. Seriously, how could you think that was the case? True, some FBI agents do not work undercover, but those that are have their identities carefully protected. Also, consider the location: Japan. It's a whole new level of red tape and bureaucracy (or perhaps impossibility altogether in some cases) to slog through if the request comes from a foreign country. Kyuu might be able to comment further on this since last time I heard he/she is in the US and was pursuing a degree in forensic sciences.Are you just making this stuff up? Basic research and common sense!
Later Edit: It wouldn't make much sense for the FBI or Japan's equivalent to have comprehensive information on citizens of the other country. If Akai is a US citizen, and entered Japan as Moroboshi Dai, then he's going to be in the Japanese system as Moroboshi Dai, not an FBI agent. I have no idea what fingerprint or DNA databases are like in Japan, or what the accessibility requirements are for the law enforcement and the public, but a doubt that IDing Akai correctly would be possible.

If Akai's face was known to the Org, he wouldn't have been able to infiltrate - even in disguise. If the BO could just tell a person was FBI, then Akai would have been killed long before he became Rye. Akai was obviously NOT a known threat to the Syndicate when he started infiltrating. It would be moronic to carry around an FBI badge or real ID or wear a mask anyway; the Org probably searches agents at first to make sure they are trustworthy - I mean how would they get a tracker on Hidemi's suit without her noticing?

As far as the James Rye quote, my Japanese translation said "isolating" so to me, that means he is isolating himself for a reason. He lost his girlfriend, so how is that making him feel? Either he is angry, he is depressed, or just plain intense in personality. That type of person would not be disguising himself as a smiley, Sherlock Holmes fan, with glasses, and a wig on....

From the context of the quote, I think it is rather likely that the original meaning was along the lines of being less outspoken. I'll leave it up to someone with better japanese to confirm if that's the case. And Akai is plenty smiley already. 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10. And that isn't even a fifth of the scenes where he has some sort of smirk of smile. Since we know that he is still feeling the loss of his girlfriend, aren't all the times he is smiling a testament to his ability to bury his feelings under a mask and act like nothing is wrong? If you want proof Akai can act, that's it.

And if there are going to be hints like that, shouldn't he be drinking Rye or something?

Then why write a mystery in the first place and not just tell the readers the answer from the get go? Because Gosho doesn't want to spoonfeed us the answers, which is why he dropped hints like the prescription glasses in the deer, boar, butterfly case, Okiya's handedness, Conan recognizing Okiya's address before he met him, Haibara and Ran's reactions to Okiya, the name references to Char, and so on and so forth.

I didn't say lower law enforcement can pull up files from the FBI.  ???The Bo has connections....They know who to get from what. They aren't stupid. And Akai was risking his identity being known.

I hate to be blunt but you are simple-minded to think that the BO would not have been able to find out Akai's identity sooner or later, with small evidence, and Akai risking his alias. To me, that would've been the perfect time to disguise himself, and yet he didn't.

Akai was not a known threat, but the FBI should've had common sense to know what type of organization they were dealing with, and how fast the BO could find identities even before they sent Akai into it. With that being said, a smart person would've disguised himself. But Akai didn't, which tells me that he's confident enough not to hide himself behind a mask.

All of his smiles were small smiles, and they were not happy ones either. They were confident cocky smiles, kind of like the ones Ai gets when she's slightly amused...but hurting inside.

To me, I can't see him doing it. I'm not trying to prove a point or debate like you are. I just can't see the man doing it, is that so wrong? In all the chances he had to disguise himself, I wouldn't see him disguising himself now either. I see him lurking in the shadows planning his next move.....

For me, that is just an analysis on the type of character he has been portrayed. All your so-called "evidence" is from your analysis which you feel you have been tracking or whatever. But I don't see it in his character. It would be awkward, considering the type of person Okiya is vs. Akai. Is that such a wrong idea that you have to demean me? I feel it is absurd.

Those "hints" are what you interpreted from Gosho, which is fine, I'm not against your "hints", I still find it absurd, and something about his character's nature tells me Gosho is fooling you all and leading you down a goosetrap to believe that Okiya is Akai, when really he might be a totally different person.

No one can read Gosho's mind, so your "hints" are just what they are: YOUR interpretations.

[Soragirl6]

The BO is the type of organization that can find a person's look and know if it is the FBI. that would make Akai even more suspicious to go into a "top-dog" organization like the BO and not know he is risking them discovering him, especially based on his identity. It would've made clearer sense to go into that kind of organization disguised as someone else. But he didn't. It is the risk of them knowing what he looked like by pulling up files from DNA, and finding his FBI badge and ID, anything the BO finds will risk his life. Just because they never saw hm doesn't mean he wasn't risking it. There is more information on FBI than regular commoners.

I don't see why he didn't choose to disguise himself then. Since he didn't, I can't see him randomly disguising himself as Okiya. People are playing into the coincidences that Ai had the same reaction to Okiya as she did Akai, and both seem to be good though related to the BO, and they both  brawny, and somehow seem related based on certain cases. I feel it is not going the way people think it is.

I'm sorry to sound blunt, but you have no idea what your talking about. I can't claim to know everything either, but it is common sense that random people and people in lower level law enforcement do NOT have the authorization to just pull up FBI agent's profiles like that, especially when the agents are undercover and doing infiltration missions. There isn't an organized national DNA databank with everyone's DNA; the FBI's Combined DNA Index System is comprised mostly of forensic samples and criminal samples (or potentially innocent people arrested in California for a felony...) and even then you have to go through red tape to get the identities of potential matches from the databank. Even for fingerprints, which is a much more extensive database and allows for civil as well as law enforcement searches, the FBI monitors requests to the database and I can very much imagine they can serve up a false profile if needed. And hell no is there more information available about the FBI than regular US citizens: at least info that isn't classified. Seriously, how could you think that was the case? True, some FBI agents do not work undercover, but those that are have their identities carefully protected. Also, consider the location: Japan. It's a whole new level of red tape and bureaucracy (or perhaps impossibility altogether in some cases) to slog through if the request comes from a foreign country. Kyuu might be able to comment further on this since last time I heard he/she is in the US and was pursuing a degree in forensic sciences.Are you just making this stuff up? Basic research and common sense!
Later Edit: It wouldn't make much sense for the FBI or Japan's equivalent to have comprehensive information on citizens of the other country. If Akai is a US citizen, and entered Japan as Moroboshi Dai, then he's going to be in the Japanese system as Moroboshi Dai, not an FBI agent. I have no idea what fingerprint or DNA databases are like in Japan, or what the accessibility requirements are for the law enforcement and the public, but a doubt that IDing Akai correctly would be possible.

If Akai's face was known to the Org, he wouldn't have been able to infiltrate - even in disguise. If the BO could just tell a person was FBI, then Akai would have been killed long before he became Rye. Akai was obviously NOT a known threat to the Syndicate when he started infiltrating. It would be moronic to carry around an FBI badge or real ID or wear a mask anyway; the Org probably searches agents at first to make sure they are trustworthy - I mean how would they get a tracker on Hidemi's suit without her noticing?

As far as the James Rye quote, my Japanese translation said "isolating" so to me, that means he is isolating himself for a reason. He lost his girlfriend, so how is that making him feel? Either he is angry, he is depressed, or just plain intense in personality. That type of person would not be disguising himself as a smiley, Sherlock Holmes fan, with glasses, and a wig on....

From the context of the quote, I think it is rather likely that the original meaning was along the lines of being less outspoken. I'll leave it up to someone with better japanese to confirm if that's the case. And Akai is plenty smiley already. 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10. And that isn't even a fifth of the scenes where he has some sort of smirk of smile. Since we know that he is still feeling the loss of his girlfriend, aren't all the times he is smiling a testament to his ability to bury his feelings under a mask and act like nothing is wrong? If you want proof Akai can act, that's it.

And if there are going to be hints like that, shouldn't he be drinking Rye or something?

Then why write a mystery in the first place and not just tell the readers the answer from the get go? Because Gosho doesn't want to spoonfeed us the answers, which is why he dropped hints like the prescription glasses in the deer, boar, butterfly case, Okiya's handedness, Conan recognizing Okiya's address before he met him, Haibara and Ran's reactions to Okiya, the name references to Char, and so on and so forth.

I didn't say lower law enforcement can pull up files from the FBI.  ???The Bo has connections....They know who to get from what. They aren't stupid. And Akai was risking his identity being known.

I hate to be blunt but you are simple-minded to think that the BO would not have been able to find out Akai's identity sooner or later, with small evidence, and Akai risking his alias. To me, that would've been the perfect time to disguise himself, and yet he didn't.

Akai was not a known threat, but the FBI should've had common sense to know what type of organization they were dealing with, and how fast the BO could find identities even before they sent Akai into it. With that being said, a smart person would've disguised himself. But Akai didn't, which tells me that he's confident enough not to hide himself behind a mask.

All of his smiles were small smiles, and they were not happy ones either. They were confident cocky smiles, kind of like the ones Ai gets when she's slightly amused...but hurting inside.

To me, I can't see him doing it. I'm not trying to prove a point or debate like you are. I just can't see the man doing it, is that so wrong? In all the chances he had to disguise himself, I wouldn't see him disguising himself now either. I see him lurking in the shadows planning his next move.....

For me, that is just an analysis on the type of character he has been portrayed. All your so-called "evidence" is from your analysis which you feel you have been tracking or whatever. But I don't see it in his character. It would be awkward, considering the type of person Okiya is vs. Akai. Is that such a wrong idea that you have to demean me? I feel it is absurd.

Those "hints" are what you interpreted from Gosho, which is fine, I'm not against your "hints", I still find it absurd, and something about his character's nature tells me Gosho is fooling you all and leading you down a goosetrap to believe that Okiya is Akai, when really he might be a totally different person.

No one can read Gosho's mind, so your "hints" are just what they are: YOUR interpretations.

I get what you are saying. Everything on this board is based on analysis. Its just some people choose to analyze Okiya instead of analyzing the type of character Akai is.  Their choice in analyzing makes them state it as a fact, even though nothing that anyone said about Akai being Okiya is a fact. Its an opinion. I agree, that for Akai, who is intense and too cool, its just too random for me. Not to say it isn't possible, but Akai seems like the type of person who'd just lay low without having to put on a mask.

Kor, what the heck does this have to do with love? We're talking about Akai being supposedly okiya. 

[soratothamax]

The BO is the type of organization that can find a person's look and know if it is the FBI. that would make Akai even more suspicious to go into a "top-dog" organization like the BO and not know he is risking them discovering him, especially based on his identity. It would've made clearer sense to go into that kind of organization disguised as someone else. But he didn't. It is the risk of them knowing what he looked like by pulling up files from DNA, and finding his FBI badge and ID, anything the BO finds will risk his life. Just because they never saw hm doesn't mean he wasn't risking it. There is more information on FBI than regular commoners.

I don't see why he didn't choose to disguise himself then. Since he didn't, I can't see him randomly disguising himself as Okiya. People are playing into the coincidences that Ai had the same reaction to Okiya as she did Akai, and both seem to be good though related to the BO, and they both  brawny, and somehow seem related based on certain cases. I feel it is not going the way people think it is.

I'm sorry to sound blunt, but you have no idea what your talking about. I can't claim to know everything either, but it is common sense that random people and people in lower level law enforcement do NOT have the authorization to just pull up FBI agent's profiles like that, especially when the agents are undercover and doing infiltration missions. There isn't an organized national DNA databank with everyone's DNA; the FBI's Combined DNA Index System is comprised mostly of forensic samples and criminal samples (or potentially innocent people arrested in California for a felony...) and even then you have to go through red tape to get the identities of potential matches from the databank. Even for fingerprints, which is a much more extensive database and allows for civil as well as law enforcement searches, the FBI monitors requests to the database and I can very much imagine they can serve up a false profile if needed. And hell no is there more information available about the FBI than regular US citizens: at least info that isn't classified. Seriously, how could you think that was the case? True, some FBI agents do not work undercover, but those that are have their identities carefully protected. Also, consider the location: Japan. It's a whole new level of red tape and bureaucracy (or perhaps impossibility altogether in some cases) to slog through if the request comes from a foreign country. Kyuu might be able to comment further on this since last time I heard he/she is in the US and was pursuing a degree in forensic sciences.Are you just making this stuff up? Basic research and common sense!
Later Edit: It wouldn't make much sense for the FBI or Japan's equivalent to have comprehensive information on citizens of the other country. If Akai is a US citizen, and entered Japan as Moroboshi Dai, then he's going to be in the Japanese system as Moroboshi Dai, not an FBI agent. I have no idea what fingerprint or DNA databases are like in Japan, or what the accessibility requirements are for the law enforcement and the public, but a doubt that IDing Akai correctly would be possible.

If Akai's face was known to the Org, he wouldn't have been able to infiltrate - even in disguise. If the BO could just tell a person was FBI, then Akai would have been killed long before he became Rye. Akai was obviously NOT a known threat to the Syndicate when he started infiltrating. It would be moronic to carry around an FBI badge or real ID or wear a mask anyway; the Org probably searches agents at first to make sure they are trustworthy - I mean how would they get a tracker on Hidemi's suit without her noticing?

As far as the James Rye quote, my Japanese translation said "isolating" so to me, that means he is isolating himself for a reason. He lost his girlfriend, so how is that making him feel? Either he is angry, he is depressed, or just plain intense in personality. That type of person would not be disguising himself as a smiley, Sherlock Holmes fan, with glasses, and a wig on....

From the context of the quote, I think it is rather likely that the original meaning was along the lines of being less outspoken. I'll leave it up to someone with better japanese to confirm if that's the case. And Akai is plenty smiley already. 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10. And that isn't even a fifth of the scenes where he has some sort of smirk of smile. Since we know that he is still feeling the loss of his girlfriend, aren't all the times he is smiling a testament to his ability to bury his feelings under a mask and act like nothing is wrong? If you want proof Akai can act, that's it.

And if there are going to be hints like that, shouldn't he be drinking Rye or something?

Then why write a mystery in the first place and not just tell the readers the answer from the get go? Because Gosho doesn't want to spoonfeed us the answers, which is why he dropped hints like the prescription glasses in the deer, boar, butterfly case, Okiya's handedness, Conan recognizing Okiya's address before he met him, Haibara and Ran's reactions to Okiya, the name references to Char, and so on and so forth.

I didn't say lower law enforcement can pull up files from the FBI.  ???The Bo has connections....They know who to get from what. They aren't stupid. And Akai was risking his identity being known.

I hate to be blunt but you are simple-minded to think that the BO would not have been able to find out Akai's identity sooner or later, with small evidence, and Akai risking his alias. To me, that would've been the perfect time to disguise himself, and yet he didn't.

Akai was not a known threat, but the FBI should've had common sense to know what type of organization they were dealing with, and how fast the BO could find identities even before they sent Akai into it. With that being said, a smart person would've disguised himself. But Akai didn't, which tells me that he's confident enough not to hide himself behind a mask.

All of his smiles were small smiles, and they were not happy ones either. They were confident cocky smiles, kind of like the ones Ai gets when she's slightly amused...but hurting inside.

To me, I can't see him doing it. I'm not trying to prove a point or debate like you are. I just can't see the man doing it, is that so wrong? In all the chances he had to disguise himself, I wouldn't see him disguising himself now either. I see him lurking in the shadows planning his next move.....

For me, that is just an analysis on the type of character he has been portrayed. All your so-called "evidence" is from your analysis which you feel you have been tracking or whatever. But I don't see it in his character. It would be awkward, considering the type of person Okiya is vs. Akai. Is that such a wrong idea that you have to demean me? I feel it is absurd.

Those "hints" are what you interpreted from Gosho, which is fine, I'm not against your "hints", I still find it absurd, and something about his character's nature tells me Gosho is fooling you all and leading you down a goosetrap to believe that Okiya is Akai, when really he might be a totally different person.

No one can read Gosho's mind, so your "hints" are just what they are: YOUR interpretations.

I get what you are saying. Everything on this board is based on analysis. Its just some people choose to analyze Okiya instead of analyzing the type of character Akai is.  Their choice in analyzing makes them state it as a fact, even though nothing that anyone said about Akai being Okiya is a fact. Its an opinion. I agree, that for Akai, who is intense and too cool, its just too random for me. Not to say it isn't possible, but Akai seems like the type of person who'd just lay low without having to put on a mask.

Kor, what the heck does this have to do with love? We're talking about Akai being supposedly okiya.  :P

Well, at least someone else sees the randomness of it.....

I'm just trying to see it the new member's way as well. Not that no one has decent clues, but it's just funny to see Akai hiding behind that smiley, squinty-eyed face....with sweaters, and pink hair....lol

He's kind of like Gin to me....Imagine Gin behind a disguise like Okiya....that is just hilarious to me! It just seems so random....

[Chekhov MacGuffin]

To me, I can't see him doing it. I'm not trying to prove a point or debate like you are. I just can't see the man doing it, is that so wrong? In all the chances he had to disguise himself, I wouldn't see him disguising himself now either. I see him lurking in the shadows planning his next move.....
For me, that is just an analysis on the type of character he has been portrayed. All your so-called "evidence" is from your analysis which you feel you have been tracking or whatever. But I don't see it in his character. It would be awkward, considering the type of person Okiya is vs. Akai. Is that such a wrong idea that you have to demean me? I feel it is absurd.
Those "hints" are what you interpreted from Gosho, which is fine, I'm not against your "hints", I still find it absurd, and something about his character's nature tells me Gosho is fooling you all and leading you down a goosetrap to believe that Okiya is Akai, when really he might be a totally different person.
No one can read Gosho's mind, so your "hints" are just what they are: YOUR interpretations.

Oi, oi. All I've been doing is critiquing the strength and validity of the evidence and the arguments you have put forth. I'm not trying to demean you in doing so; I haven't made any comment about you as the arguer until the last two posts of mine in this thread. To be fair, it wasn't very nice when I did, but I was frustrated that you would try to base an argument on something which is factually incorrect when you could have easily checked it up beforehand. Since lots of people casually stop by and read the threads, I have a perverse feeling of obligation to correct errors or present a more objective interpretation when people do this. I hope people will correct me when I make mistakes as well.
Also, there is a major difference between a lot of evidence I bring up and most of the evidence you have presented. I try to rely on objective observations rather than subjective observations. What I mean by that is I try to rely on things that are hard facts which have a page number or you can check for yourself (eg. Ran thinks she recognizes Okiya from somewhere, or excluding Matsuda who was already dead, no multicase character has ever died in Detective Conan except for Akai apparently), or I try to use "objective interpretations" which, while not facts, are pretty hard to disagree with nonetheless. (eg. The names Akai Shuuichi, Moroboshi Dai and Okiya Subaru are based off of Char Aznable). When it comes to subjective speculations, I try to impartially evaluate the evidence given to find the most logical conclusion. (Would Okiya find out if Shinichi was alive if he lived at Shinichi's house?)
I think where we are butting heads is in our fundamental approach. I don't believe that hunches or feelings make valid arguments because there is no way to objectively determine whether one theory is more likely to be correct than another. I'm not going to try to convince you that any particular approach is better or more valid than another, but consider the following: you think A, but someone else thinks B, and person C isn't sure. How do you try to convince person C that your idea A is better than B?
If it helps you sympathize, even though I believe Okiya is Akai, I still subconsciously think of them as separate individuals; in my imagination I have manually go and edit Akai's face on top of Okiya's when I have to think about them being the same person.

[CC]

Somewhat off-topic, but I do want to say that I can appreciate both points of view.  I appreciate that there are people here who are extremely observant and I am thankful when they share their knowledge and observations.  But as a scientist, I can also appreciate the method of forming theories and hypothesis and discussing with your colleagues and then going to test them, often utilizing some things that you got out of the discussion.  I think the first method is more for, like, instructive purposes and the second method is more for, like, brainstorming purposes, but I think both are useful.

And of course, I am very very VERY thankful to the good people at DCTP for all their work in subbing Detective Conan so that we can have these discussions  .

[soratothamax]

To me, I can't see him doing it. I'm not trying to prove a point or debate like you are. I just can't see the man doing it, is that so wrong? In all the chances he had to disguise himself, I wouldn't see him disguising himself now either. I see him lurking in the shadows planning his next move.....
For me, that is just an analysis on the type of character he has been portrayed. All your so-called "evidence" is from your analysis which you feel you have been tracking or whatever. But I don't see it in his character. It would be awkward, considering the type of person Okiya is vs. Akai. Is that such a wrong idea that you have to demean me? I feel it is absurd.
Those "hints" are what you interpreted from Gosho, which is fine, I'm not against your "hints", I still find it absurd, and something about his character's nature tells me Gosho is fooling you all and leading you down a goosetrap to believe that Okiya is Akai, when really he might be a totally different person.
No one can read Gosho's mind, so your "hints" are just what they are: YOUR interpretations.

Oi, oi. All I've been doing is critiquing the strength and validity of the evidence and the arguments you have put forth. I'm not trying to demean you in doing so; I haven't made any comment about you as the arguer until the last two posts of mine in this thread. To be fair, it wasn't very nice when I did, but I was frustrated that you would try to base an argument on something which is factually incorrect when you could have easily checked it up beforehand. Since lots of people casually stop by and read the threads, I have a perverse feeling of obligation to correct errors or present a more objective interpretation when people do this. I hope people will correct me when I make mistakes as well.
Also, there is a major difference between a lot of evidence I bring up and most of the evidence you have presented. I try to rely on objective observations rather than subjective observations. What I mean by that is I try to rely on things that are hard facts which have a page number or you can check for yourself (eg. Ran thinks she recognizes Okiya from somewhere, or excluding Matsuda who was already dead, no multicase character has ever died in Detective Conan except for Akai apparently), or I try to use "objective interpretations" which, while not facts, are pretty hard to disagree with nonetheless. (eg. The names Akai Shuuichi, Moroboshi Dai and Okiya Subaru are based off of Char Aznable). When it comes to subjective speculations, I try to impartially evaluate the evidence given to find the most logical conclusion. (Would Okiya find out if Shinichi was alive if he lived at Shinichi's house?)
I think where we are butting heads is in our fundamental approach. I don't believe that hunches or feelings make valid arguments because there is no way to objectively determine whether one theory is more likely to be correct than another. I'm not going to try to convince you that any particular approach is better or more valid than another, but consider the following: you think A, but someone else thinks B, and person C isn't sure. How do you try to convince person C that your idea A is better than B?
If it helps you sympathize, even though I believe Okiya is Akai, I still subconsciously think of them as separate individuals; in my imagination I have manually go and edit Akai's face on top of Okiya's when I have to think about them being the same person.

Well, I can't deny your evidence which I think is very logical. It's not the evidence. It's the way the character Akai was presented to me. I was never trying to disprove your evidence. I was simply stating possibilities that we may not recognize yet. I feel there are many possibilities, and until Gosho can make them definite, we can't know for sure. MANY people are starting to dismiss the idea that Okiya IS NOT Akai, but I don't think it's totally unreasonable either. I can't personally prove it, because I don't really know what to make of Okiya just yet.

However, I do find it funny to imagine Akai behind that kind of mask. I would be curious to know why he chose such an alias.....if he did disguise himself as Okiya. Did he know Okiya from a previous engagement? Why he chose such a disguise also is interesting, because it doesn't seem like his character AT ALL.

Akai was presented to me as someone who is tough, in-your-face, and intense as a character. Like Gin, only on the good side. To see him hiding behind a squinty-eyed, cook, with pink hair....well, it's funny. When a mask is presented, I always interpreted that person hiding behind something, but Akai doesn't seem like a person who would hide to me. Maybe he really is, who knows. He just didn't come off to me like that. To me it is as absurd as Gin dressing up as Vermouth and Genta kissing Ayumi....totally weird, but not impossible.

I am not trying to argue your thoughts. They seem logical. I just can't see the character doing it because of how I imagined him to be like. If it were true, I would double over in pain from laughter!

To me, you don't have to prove that your theory makes sense. It already did. I am not trying to prove my theory is correct at all. I just feel it is odd for the character.

I usually take the theories of others, try to match them to the way the characters were presented, and find where Gosho is going with all of this. Like "why did he make this character that way, when he was going to make him this way?" Why he would put such development in a character like Okiya just to make him become Akai?

I mean, on regular cases, those characters aren't important, so we could care less if they are disguised.

But okiya seems to be a developed character all his own, and it would seem his development was all to say he was Akai.....which would make Okiya look less than a character.....which I can't imagine him not being a character all his own.

[Chekhov MacGuffin]

Why he would put such development in a character like Okiya just to make him become Akai?

Because Aoyama Gosho is developing Akai's character through Okiya similar to how Vermouth's character was developed during her time as Ariade. So far we have only seen the business side of Akai. As Okiya, we see more of his offwork side.

[soratothamax]

Why he would put such development in a character like Okiya just to make him become Akai?

Because Aoyama Gosho is developing Akai's character through Okiya similar to how Vermouth's character was developed during her time as Ariade. So far we have only seen the business side of Akai. As Okiya, we see more of his offwork side.

Even before Vermouth became Araide she was developing like during the first episode she was introduced in, and before we even saw her as Araide or knew she was in disguise, she was given off as herself in most scenes...

And when Vermouth took off her mask, there was still an "Araide-Sensei character" around. But when Akai takes off his mask, will there be no more Okiya?