New Member Here - A few theories

[Kor]

Sato was not a totally different person.

She disguised as Koboyoshi. Sure, it wasn't so hard because they look alike, but Koboyoshi is a different person 

yukiko is an actress, did i not just stress that point?

Yes, you did, but you also said:

The only one who dressed up as anyone else was Ai and Vermouth

which is wrong.

The only one who had a TOTALLY DIFFERENT FACE was Vermouth.

which also isn't true - Kaito Kid.

[mangaluva]

The only one who had a TOTALLY DIFFERENT FACE was Vermouth.

which also isn't true - Kaito Kid.

And that lass on Mermaid Island who was the murderer. Despite how good the disguises are, it doesn't seem to be that uncommon a skill. (Yukiko did it too, pretending to be Mrs Edogawa.)

[Abs.]

You can tell when glasses are prescription or not.

Tell that to Kogorou and Ran.

[mangaluva]

You can tell when glasses are prescription or not.

Tell that to Kogorou and Ran.

Not really. Most people think glasses are real as long as they have glass in them. If you get a good close look through them you can tell if they're prescription or not (because if you have fine sight or are wearing contacts they make the world look very funky ), but generally people assume that glass means prescription.

[CC]

Wow, I'm impressed...the arguments here are very observant and well thought out...

[quote="acerola21"]
I think that Rena is involved, too.  I was just re-reading some things in Japanese, and it turns out that when Rena "shot" Akai, she said "I didn't think that it would go this well" (ã

[soratothamax]

The only one who had a TOTALLY DIFFERENT FACE was Vermouth.

which also isn't true - Kaito Kid.

And that lass on Mermaid Island who was the murderer. Despite how good the disguises are, it doesn't seem to be that uncommon a skill. (Yukiko did it too, pretending to be Mrs Edogawa.)

I take it nobody read my first post....

Did anyone know that Vermouth learned how to disguise herself from Kaito Kid's father? OF COURSE he can disguise himself. He keeps his poker face. 

The point I'm trying to make is not that people don't disguise themselves often, which they do, but they usually don't look like totally different people in DC with totally different faces unless they are trained in that profession that teaches them to become totally different people, like acting, or other professions like it. Not only would the face be different, but they would have to have superb acting skills to pretend to be someone else...and get away with it.

Akai seemed too shaken up and hard-core to be trying to act like someone he's not. Like Shinichi, he'd rather go in head-first without a disguise and be noticed for what he does...though he's not as much of a show-off as Shinichi....He is not the acting type that would act like a different person and play it off well.

[James Rye]

Also, a character that I have reservations about  James Black.  If there is a discussion about him, please point me to it?  With the whole name connection thing that has been going around...Mouri being suspected b/c of Mori-arty, and same for the Professor...what about James (Moriarty) Black (Organization)?  Or is that just too obvious? 

Ohoh me me me me!!! It was me who wrote about him possibly being the Boss from the BO! 8)
....
...
..
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Dammit, i forgot where i wrote that!

[Chekhov MacGuffin]

Also, I haven't read the manga yet, but could someone tell me if there has been more revealed in the manga about Toichi (I may have spelled it wrong, but Kaito's dad) that the anime hasn't gotten to?  I'm kind of throwing around the theory in my mind that the BO boss is him...Vermouth may have been his "favorite" b/c she was his favorite pupil, and the whole thing with the Night Baron bearing a resemblance to Kaitou Kid but being a villain thing...I don't know, I obviously haven't thought it out as well as most of you, lol. 

Also, a character that I have reservations about  James Black.  If there is a discussion about him, please point me to it?  With the whole name connection thing that has been going around...Mouri being suspected b/c of Mori-arty, and same for the Professor...what about James (Moriarty) Black (Organization)?  Or is that just too obvious? 

Ooh...I like the theory about the glasses prescription thing...it seems very fitting that the Genta's dad thing was actually part of a bigger hint...

I'm afraid there is nothing new about Toichi that the anime hasn't already been through in the Vermouth arc.

[Kor]

Akai seemed too shaken up and hard-core to be trying to act like someone he's not. Like Shinichi, he'd rather go in head-first without a disguise and be noticed for what he does...though he's not as much of a show-off as Shinichi....He is not the acting type that would act like a different person and play it off well.

Half of the murderers until now were not the "type" who would kill someone for whatever reason. Does a detective takes the "he's not the type" option into account when he's investigating? Of course not. Even Kogoro doesn't do that.
"He's not the type" isn't a good arguement in general because it doesn't prove anything, and again, I'm not a guitarist rock-metal player, yet people automatically assume that I am, because to their opinion "I look like the type". It's not true though.

The point I'm trying to make is not that people don't disguise themselves often, which they do, but they usually don't look like totally different people in DC with totally different faces unless they are trained in that profession that teaches them to become totally different people, like acting, or other professions like it. Not only would the face be different, but they would have to have superb acting skills to pretend to be someone else...and get away with it.

Every one can act like someone their not.
Reality has proven to us that:
we don't need to learn how to sing in order to sing good (take most of the current stars in the world, who some didn't even learn one lesson).
We don't need to learn how to act in order to act (take most of the famous actors in hollywood)

Acting is simply not a profession like math or science. If you don't learn it, it doesn't mean you can't do it.

[soratothamax]

Akai seemed too shaken up and hard-core to be trying to act like someone he's not. Like Shinichi, he'd rather go in head-first without a disguise and be noticed for what he does...though he's not as much of a show-off as Shinichi....He is not the acting type that would act like a different person and play it off well.

Half of the murderers until now were not the "type" who would kill someone for whatever reason. Does a detective takes the "he's not the type" option into account when he's investigating? Of course not. Even Kogoro doesn't do that.
"He's not the type" isn't a good arguement in general because it doesn't prove anything, and again, I'm not a guitarist rock-metal player, yet people automatically assume that I am, because to their opinion "I look like the type". It's not true though.

The point I'm trying to make is not that people don't disguise themselves often, which they do, but they usually don't look like totally different people in DC with totally different faces unless they are trained in that profession that teaches them to become totally different people, like acting, or other professions like it. Not only would the face be different, but they would have to have superb acting skills to pretend to be someone else...and get away with it.

Every one can act like someone their not.
Reality has proven to us that:
we don't need to learn how to sing in order to sing good (take most of the current stars in the world, who some didn't even learn one lesson).
We don't need to learn how to act in order to act (take most of the famous actors in hollywood)

Acting is simply not a profession like math or science. If you don't learn it, it doesn't mean you can't do it.

Well, the only thing standing on Okiya being good is he's not the type. Sorry, but everybody who murders in Detective Conan...seems like the type. It's that obvious to me...

If Akai were to act like Okiya, we would've figured out that something about Okiya seemed very similar to Akai in personality because even though anyone can act like someone else, everyone can't act like someone else well and not for too long. Akai has had his girlfriend killed, and has been depressed ever since. He's not going to suddenly start smiling and acting normal.

Akai is not that good of an actor to pull off that disguise for too long. He would had to have practiced being this person. Also, many of the main characters that do wear different masks, wear the masks of characters we already knew prior to the "masking."

For example: Vermouth wore the mask of Araide after we met Araide, etc.

And even so, the ones that would dress like totally random people would have to be experts at it, and not be mentally depressed in their state-of-mind like akai. even as Rye, he couldn't pull that off too well and for too long, and he still acted himself.

I JUST GOT AN EVEN CRAZIER THEORY: What if Okiya was Ai's lost father? Remember, she had never met her father, because he supposedly "died" when Ai was two or three. So, it could be him

[Chekhov MacGuffin]

Well, the only thing standing on Okiya being good is he's not the type. Sorry, but everybody who murders in Detective Conan...seems like the type. It's that obvious to me...

Erm, Okiya undeniably helped Conan and Ai. There is plenty of other suggestive evidence which you can view if you click that link in my sig.

... because even though anyone can act like someone else, everyone can't act like someone else well and not for too long. Akai has had his girlfriend killed, and has been depressed ever since. He's not going to suddenly start smiling and acting normal.

Akai is not that good of an actor to pull off that disguise for too long. He would had to have practiced being this person.

Do you have any hard proof that Akai can't act well? It isn't good form to make conjectures without evidence to back it up. Remember Yuusaku pulled off being the black org night baron guy without a hitch and fooled his own son in the process. Yuusaku, although married to an actor, isn't one himself. I posted more examples in an earlier post in this thread.

Also, many of the main characters that do wear different masks, wear the masks of characters we already knew prior to the "masking."
For example: Vermouth wore the mask of Araide after we met Araide, etc.

Counterexample: the culprit of the mermaid case. We didn't know the grandmother before the case.

And even so, the ones that would dress like totally random people would have to be experts at it, and not be mentally depressed in their state-of-mind like akai. even as Rye, he couldn't pull that off too well and for too long, and he still acted himself.

If Akai was so depressed out of his mind, how could he fight against the black organization? Clinical depression kind of effects everything you do, not just certain aspects of your life.

Dressing as someone you made up is definitely easier than disguising as someone real, because when you are someone random, you have freedom to make up the personality and nobody knows who you are beforehand so you don't have to conform to their expectations. When you go as someone known, you have to fit their personality and quirks which means there is more room for error and usually there are people who know the person you are disguising as that you have to trick.

[Sakina]

Also, many of the main characters that do wear different masks, wear the masks of characters we already knew prior to the "masking."
For example: Vermouth wore the mask of Araide after we met Araide, etc.

Counterexample: the culprit of the mermaid case. We didn't know the grandmother before the case.

A bad example, I think.  For one thing, the granddaughter wasn't a main character.  Also, she didn't have to pull off the outfit for days/weeks at a time like Vermouth did.  All she had to do was disguise herself for a little bit... perhaps an hour or two.. and then she could go back to being herself.  Remember, the grandmother rarely showed herself in public and when she did it wasn't for very long. 

[Chekhov MacGuffin]

Also, many of the main characters that do wear different masks, wear the masks of characters we already knew prior to the "masking."
For example: Vermouth wore the mask of Araide after we met Araide, etc.

Counterexample: the culprit of the mermaid case. We didn't know the grandmother before the case.

A bad example, I think.  For one thing, the granddaughter wasn't a main character.  Also, she didn't have to pull off the outfit for days/weeks at a time like Vermouth did.  All she had to do was disguise herself for a little bit... perhaps an hour or two.. and then she could go back to being herself.  Remember, the grandmother rarely showed herself in public and when she did it wasn't for very long.   

A fair enough criticism. Pick one of Kaito Kid's disguises then. We usually haven't met one of the people he disguises as before the case. If Okiya is Akai, he just has to wear a wig and glasses at the most, or if he straightened and dyed his hair, just the glasses then. It's not a strenuous disguise to maintain.

[soratothamax]

Well, the only thing standing on Okiya being good is he's not the type. Sorry, but everybody who murders in Detective Conan...seems like the type. It's that obvious to me...

Erm, Okiya undeniably helped Conan and Ai. There is plenty of other suggestive evidence which you can view if you click that link in my sig.

... because even though anyone can act like someone else, everyone can't act like someone else well and not for too long. Akai has had his girlfriend killed, and has been depressed ever since. He's not going to suddenly start smiling and acting normal.

Akai is not that good of an actor to pull off that disguise for too long. He would had to have practiced being this person.

Do you have any hard proof that Akai can't act well? It isn't good form to make conjectures without evidence to back it up. Remember Yuusaku pulled off being the black org night baron guy without a hitch and fooled his own son in the process. Yuusaku, although married to an actor, isn't one himself. I posted more examples in an earlier post in this thread.

Also, many of the main characters that do wear different masks, wear the masks of characters we already knew prior to the "masking."
For example: Vermouth wore the mask of Araide after we met Araide, etc.

Counterexample: the culprit of the mermaid case. We didn't know the grandmother before the case.

And even so, the ones that would dress like totally random people would have to be experts at it, and not be mentally depressed in their state-of-mind like akai. even as Rye, he couldn't pull that off too well and for too long, and he still acted himself.

If Akai was so depressed out of his mind, how could he fight against the black organization? Clinical depression kind of effects everything you do, not just certain aspects of your life.

Dressing as someone you made up is definitely easier than disguising as someone real, because when you are someone random, you have freedom to make up the personality and nobody knows who you are beforehand so you don't have to conform to their expectations. When you go as someone known, you have to fit their personality and quirks which means there is more room for error and usually there are people who know the person you are disguising as that you have to trick.

That could very well be a cover-up for Okiya to save Conan and Ai...so possibly so he can get some information...

I just mentioned his alias "Rye" wasn't that successful when Akai infiltrated the BO, was it? When he was trying to pretend to be different from the FBI, he was busted then. He could have very well gone into the BO as a totally different person, but he didn't, did he? All he did was change his name... And that's one of the places he SHOULD have totally disguised himself. That tells me he is not that kind of person. He wouldn't be able to pull off being a totally different person for very long based on that.

There are also different forms and stages of depression. James Brown said that he had been mentally messed up since the death of Akemi, in the Clash of Red and Black Case, so I doubt he would waste time pretending to be Okiya. His thing is preparing a plan of attack and going for the solution....He has a hard time being energetic anymore, so I can't see him being as smiley as Okiya is. Not that easily.

Unless he went totally insane and forgot all that had happened...and decided smiling was the best way to cope...(being sarcastic).

I also make my theories based on the type of characters Gosho created and what I have analyzed them to be like.

If he does come out to be Akai, I will never be able to see Akai the same again....I will always see him smiling...

If Okiya is Akai, why would he not say something to Conan and Ai? It's not like they're going to tell the BO anything...Okiya seems to be in "high spirits" enough to tell Ai and Conan these things...

I honestly think he's good, but not a person they know particularly yet.

[Abs.]

There are also different forms and stages of depression. James Brown said that he had been mentally messed up since the death of Akemi, in the Clash of Red and Black Case, so I doubt he would waste time pretending to be Okiya.

(Childish, I know.)