Kor wrote:DCUniverseAficionado wrote:Kor wrote:Ran replying to the confession has been on hold since basically the London thing, and that was like 250 chapters ago, way back in 2010. Gosho dragged this one out just like most other things.
But...
S.Vineyard wrote:
And Gosho did actually deliver, by showing a Shinran love confession far sooner than everybody thought. (Most people thought it would happen at the end of the series.)
...he exceeded expectations for those who thought a case like this would be at the end of the series.
... so? Am I to praise Gosho for exceeding the expectations of people who aren't me?
Also, the premise you're quoting is flawed. It once again makes up a majority and then psychically knows what said majority thinks, thus concludes that "Gosho did actually deliver".
I think 7 years is pretty good by current pacing standards
7 years is roughly what it took for the entire Bourbon thing to unfold. And since I can't consider that good pacing, no way can I consider "Ran replying to a confession" taking 7 years to be good pacing either.
especially for those who, say, thought it'd take 14 years for her to respond.
And such pacing must be extremely good for those who thought it'd take 28 years for her to respond. Thing is these 14 and 28 people are completely made up, and I'm not entirely sure why anyone should approach the text from the eyes of made-up people? (It's also not a really good argument in the first place. Implying it's good because it could have taken longer is just like saying a thing is better because it could have been worse).
Agreed pretty much. Just because it could be worse doesn't mean that it's a good move. Especially as stated before:
1. I feel like at best the confession arc in London is Gosho to a degree recognizing that ShinRan needed a shake up since things between them have been the same for almost two decades, and the latter doesn't really make the best of her screentime.
But as demonstrated throughout the stories leading up to the confession, aside from mentions of how Ran will respond to the confession she hasn't done anything drastically new from the confession to the kiss.
As such the whole thing stinks of trying to shake things up, but not wanting to go far enough that the bulk of chapters following won't be able to ignore the change so easily, compared to say a certain change that some of us felt should have occurred even before the Bourbon arc.
Heck, I've often compared Desperate Revival to The Shiragami arc to demonstrate that even if the statuo quo was always god, the former tried to at least provide a great illusion covering the fact, while the latter pretty much beats you over the head with the fact with a hammer.
The London arc feels like an attempt to craft such an illusion, but it aside from the locale and the confession, not much else. The Desperate Revival in contrast really goes the extra mile as much as a static continuity can go:
A. Conan for the first and only time considers sharing his secret with Ran without duress (i.e. The Shinkansen's Bomb Case had him only doing so because his secret wouldn't matter if luck didn't prevail).
B. The Detective Boys having to finish a case without Conan.
C. Kazuha meeting Shinichi for the first time and realizing that he isn't a girl that Heiji is hot over. Because obviously homosexuality is nearly non-existent in-universe
.
D. And for the first time since the beginning Shinichi honestly believes he will get resume his life after his body's first bit of pain results in no reverting. Compare that to any following revival stories where he knows it's only a matter of time before Conan is back.
E. And lets face it, the best attempt to throw Ran's suspicions off.
2. It is unpredictable sure, but compared to the potential new stories that we could have gotten in place with a bigger change, it feels more like a half a handful of chicken feed not even enough for a single chick. Now if the London arc was something planned for years like in the way that Haibara's appearance was foreshadowed early as Volume 2 before appearing in 18, as opposed to conceived later like Sera, well it depends.
Had the series been shorter, sure it might have made for a nice detour, but by 500 chapters? This is the kind of thing that would prompt a good writer to swallow their pride and changes their plans as it would service the character in question better to go from someone who is merely a token potential love interest to an ally against a criminal organization as opposed to taking 250 chapters to have a love confession and another 250 to actually follow it up.
Especially when the lead character who gets the kiss needs more comeuppance for his mistakes before getting some levity. I mean she's responding favorably despite the consideration that he's lying about his whereabouts, plus the confession is preceded by him trying to run off and then referring to her as a distraction when his own misfortune is self-inflicted.
3. As to the degree of Ran returning Shinichi's affection being surprising? I'm not too sure about that. Sure with Shonen titles in general there is an aversion to doing more with a couple beyond the will they/won't they, but Dragon Ball before it arguably showed more risk with actually having an aging protagonist, making him a husband and even a father to two children.
Plus with most Shonen the only thing keeping the couple from enjoying a relationship is the characters in question being afraid to open up their feelings.
In DC, once Shinichi has to go back to being Conan, there isn't much he and Ran can do beyond just talking about the fact that they're official.
As I said before, I'd even be happy to see anything change that wouldn't require ending the series if it had to go on, such as say Kogoro's rate of case solving increasing, plus finding out the secret behind his Sleeping status in either order.
But such a change would require even more of an overhaul of the status quo, and if he's reluctant to be having Ran becoming involved with stopping the Organization, I don't expect a more drastic change.
That said, I feel like Shinichi's confession coupled with Ran's kiss of confirmation while better than the average fair is the opposite extreme of Kogoro improving rapidly as a detective. The latter would in some respects make it an entirely different show (which I wouldn't object to honestly, but at least I can understand the rationale behind this status quo), while the former changes some details present from the start but still being able to keep from changing the story structure drastically.
As such unless there are some drawbacks* that I have yet to acknowledge or consider Ran becoming part of the effort to defeat the Organization is the best compromise in allowing a good chuck of the original structure to remain, while changing enough that the series has a fresh overhaul.
Anyway, I'm going to wait until the upcoming chapter before I post again, but even then I might just carry it over into the series pacing thread.
But to finish, I mean sure there is a chance that he plans to have a suspicion arc that will actually end with a game changer, but even if it's a matter of when rather than if, I don't know. Is there anything that could really be done with the status quo that's fresh, unpredictable and would have the same wow factor of Ran confirming the truth about Conan as well as the Organization? I mean if the confession and response is the best we can expect, I feel cutting it would be a minor loss in return for the bigger gains.
Edit: Since I don't want to go back on what I said, I'm adding a 3rd point here and a footnote.
*Said drawbacks are closing off entirely new stories requiring the old status quo (which arguably the pros of changing them out weigh what we may lose), the change would slowly help Ran and Conan to become closer friends thus removing tension (despite the fact that they still can't act on strong developing feelings of intimacy until Conan is back to legal age and the BO is brought down) and movie goers who don't follow the series would be too confused at the change(despite Vegeta from DBZ changing more drastically and faster).
