A Possible Questionable New theory Hairbaba still Bo?

[Chekhov MacGuffin]

Proof of the theory requires believing that when Hairaba said the DRUG kills, she lied.

This doesn't count as evidence. You need to find evidence Haibara lied.

You sure you want this? There are a lot of examples of Hairaba lying. It is a case of she did and has lied.

Clarification, find evidence that Haibara lied about the effects of APTX4869.

[sstimson]

Proof of the theory requires believing that when Hairaba said the DRUG kills, she lied.

This doesn't count as evidence. You need to find evidence Haibara lied.

You sure you want this? There are a lot of examples of Hairaba lying. It is a case of she did and has lied.

Clarification, find evidence that Haibara lied about the effects of APTX4869.

This is a theory. While I might find such evidence, it may not exist. One could look at how she was playing with Conan as proof she lied.

Put it another way There is likely no evidence to prove the case either way as it is a theory, not a proven fact.

[Chekhov MacGuffin]

This is a theory. While I might find such evidence, it may not exist. One could look at how she was playing with Conan as proof she lied.
Put it another way There is likely no evidence to prove the case either way as it is a theory, not a proven fact.

So why do you care so much about a theory which has no evidence to prove it? It's silly to argue about it because it is probably not true anyway. We might as well discuss whether the moon is made of green cheese, and NASA doctored the landing photos to make it look like rock, and Kraft and Groupe Bel are hiding massive amounts of research into previously unknown cheese structure and properties, and Aoyama Gosho has been secretly leaking this research data through codes in his writing, or something like that...

If you really care about this theory, try to find evidence to prove it. No one will take you or your theory seriously if you can't do that.

[sstimson]

This is a theory. While I might find such evidence, it may not exist. One could look at how she was playing with Conan as proof she lied.
Put it another way There is likely no evidence to prove the case either way as it is a theory, not a proven fact.

So why do you care so much about a theory which has no evidence to prove it? It's silly to argue about it because it is probably not true anyway. We might as well discuss whether the moon is made of green cheese, and NASA doctored the landing photos to make it look like rock, and Kraft and Groupe Bel are hiding massive amounts of research into previously unknown cheese structure and properties, and Aoyama Gosho has been secretly leaking this research data through codes in his writing, or something like that...

If you really care about this theory, try to find evidence to prove it. No one will take you or your theory seriously if you can't do that.

Lets start with another chance happening.

Hairaba and Conan first case the Floppy. It is reasonable to think that you enter the right password the virus does not happen right?
Is it possible Hairaba deliberately entered the wrong password to make sure the virus would happen?
The Way and mood of Hairaba before going after the disk.
The way Hairaba likes to tease Conan.
These point to her lying. What have you got to pointing to her telling the truth instead?
It is not direct evidence. It is Psychology Evidence.

[Chekhov MacGuffin]

Third time the forum has deleted my post.  >:(

Hairaba and Conan first case the Floppy. It is reasonable to think that you enter the right password the virus does not happen right?Is it possible Hairaba deliberately entered the wrong password to make sure the virus would happen?

The password wasn't the problem. She got that right. It was the second layer of protection she forgot: the Night Baron virus designed to activate if the hidden folder was opened on a non-BO computer.

Spoiler:

Fixed the image and url tags - Abs.

The Way and mood of Hairaba before going after the disk.

Which disk, the Hirota or the Pisco one?

What have you got to pointing to her telling the truth instead?

There is no question Ai is keeping important Org related secrets from Conan. I polled the Aicon thread for their ideas since I don't have a list of the times Ai has told the truth handy.

[sstimson]

Third time the forum has deleted my post. 

Hairaba and Conan first case the Floppy. It is reasonable to think that you enter the right password the virus does not happen right?Is it possible Hairaba deliberately entered the wrong password to make sure the virus would happen?

The password wasn’t the problem. She got that right. It was the second layer of protection she forgot: the night Baron virus designed to activate if the hidden folder was opened on a non-BO computer.

Spoiler:

I know you might find me saying things without proof annoying but anyway

If I were a member if a secret org like the BO I would like two passwords one for getting the data and another as a failsafe launching a virus program to completely destroy all data on that disk. What I am saying is Hairaba entered the failsafe password.

The page of Vodka and Gin talking in the car I do not trust. The only reason I see for them to is to give information directly from the author.
As this is a Mystery genre it would make sense to me for the author to enter some misdirection. Again it is Psychology. I feel do not trust an author of a mystery genre throwing you a bone.

So I am saying Hairaba lied about not remembering that second layer of protection. Again the only possible evidence to this claim is Psychology. If it were me and I just lost two or more years of work, I be a lot madder. Hairaba seem to take it way too easy. It seems to me she is destroying dangerous information and making sure it was destroyed.

You do not find it just a little funny that on the same day as hairaba decides to get the missing drug info other BO show up to do the same.
They had over  three years to find that info and there are just now looking there now?

Also about planting a virus to destroy a certain disk look at it this way. Lets say hairaba has 100 disk. out of that 100 disk, three involve her sister and of those three disk ONLY ONE by chance ends up with the university professor. Meaning that unless you set all disk to destroy, it is very unlikely you will pick the one disk by chance that end up out of the BO hands

The Way and mood of Hairaba before going after the disk. Which disk, the Hirota or the Pisco one?

the above one

What have you got to pointing to her telling the truth instead?
There is no question Ai is keeping important Org related secrets from Conan. I polled the Aicon thread for their ideas since I don’t have a list of the times Ai has told the truth handy.

[soratothamax]

Third time the forum has deleted my post.  >:(


Hairaba and Conan first case the Floppy. It is reasonable to think that you enter the right password the virus does not happen right?Is it possible Hairaba deliberately entered the wrong password to make sure the virus would happen? The password wasn’t the problem. She got that right. It was the second layer of protection she forgot: the night Baron virus designed to activate if the hidden folder was opened on a non-BO computer.

Spoiler:

I know you might find me saying things without proof annoying but anyway

If I were a member if a secret org like the BO I would like two passwords one for getting the data and another as a failsafe launching a virus program to completely destroy all data on that disk. What I am saying is Hairaba entered the failsafe password.

The page of Vodka and Gin talking in the car I do not trust. The only reason I see for them to is to give information directly from the author.
As this is a Mystery genre it would make sense to me for the author to enter some misdirection. Again it is Psychology. I feel do not trust an author of a mystery genre throwing you a bone.

So I am saying Hairaba lied about not remembering that second layer of protection. Again the only possible evidence to this claim is Psychology. If it were me and I just lost two or more years of work, I be a lot madder. Hairaba seem to take it way too easy. It seems to me she is destroying dangerous information and making sure it was destroyed.

You do not find it just a little funny that on the same day as hairaba decides to get the missing drug info other BO show up to do the same.
They had over  three years to find that info and there are just now looking there now?

Also about planting a virus to destroy a certain disk look at it this way. Lets say hairaba has 100 disk. out of that 100 disk, three involve her sister and of those three disk ONLY ONE by chance ends up with the university professor. Meaning that unless you set all disk to destroy, it is very unlikely you will pick the one disk by chance that end up out of the BO hands


The Way and mood of Hairaba before going after the disk. Which disk, the Hirota or the Pisco one?
the above one


What have you got to pointing to her telling the truth instead?
There is no question Ai is keeping important Org related secrets from Conan. I polled the Aicon thread for their ideas since I don’t have a list of the times Ai has told the truth handy.

While your theory is quite possible even without evidence, even considering there is no evidence to prove she IS to be trusted aside from the fact no one wants to believe it, it is also good to consider that possibly she was not the only person working on the project. That disk might not have been created by her as she didn't know it was in the hands of the university professor. She worked in a medicine factory. A factory has more than one worker (if you remember when she referred to the paper of the exploded factory). That was where most of the research was. My thinking is in that episode, she didn't really know the password, but she guessed it, and it turned out to be the wrong one. The possible reason for Ai being calm in psychology (as I've told everyone that's one of my majors) is not only that she MIGHT be calm because she intended for it to happen, but that she expected for it to happen, and expected for Conan to throw her out onto the street. Haibara is a person who has learned to expect the worst possible outcome in most all circumstances. OR she might have gotten rid of it because she was afraid the BO would be able to track her through the disk. Again, none of this has evidence. But there are many possibilities. Theories are predictions, not fact. Trying to find precise evidence is futile because evidence with a theory varies. How evidence is for one thing, doesn't make sense for another. And how evidence comes together in one person's mind, might not all be in the direction of the fact.

Even though you have no evidence, your theory might be true basically from examining character interactions, which some people don't consider evidence, but in fact is key in solving mysteries. And someone with seemingly "physical" evidence may or may not be right either. In either case the possibilities are open when it comes to Haibara. She is not meant to be the "perfect" character. She is more real than that. She is not meant to be easy to read or simple to decipher.

The real deal about Haibara's character that I think adds to her charm is the seeming contradiction. She seems like a real human to me. In real life, humans are full of contradiction, unlike the other overly righteous characters, who yes serve as great role models, but try to pretend to have no flaws, which make their flaws even more obvious.

So for the record, Haibara's character is mysterious. We will not know the truth about her life, which is the cool thing. She is not part of the light side or the dark, but simply the dark heroine. Most people can't handle the intensity of her character.

[terra]

Well, I’m in no way as good most people here with theories. Precisely, I think my deduction skills suck. But I was lurking and reading this thread for quite a long time and wanted to join the discussion… 

Okay. So the „possibly questionable theoryâ€

[sstimson]

[quote="terra"]
Well, I’m in no way as good most people here with theories. Precisely, I think my deduction skills suck. But I was lurking and reading this thread for quite a long time and wanted to join the discussion… 

Okay. So the „possibly questionable theoryâ€

[terra]

I’m glad you took your time to reply to me Mind if I question you further?

The other way to protect the user is for the user's mind to control things around them.

See, this is what I keep having doubts about. Thinking about DC as logical series, where everything is backed up with evidence, I try to find something that would support that. The user can’t be aware of being an experiment or the drug won’t have some effects, right? The mental state is important and the user can control it – more or less? So even though Shinichi thought with all his might he didn’t want to change back to being Conan, it’s still not enough…

But at this time Ran thought she knew who Conan was and so she give blood. I am not saying that for a fact this happened because of the drug, but it could be a case of the drug allowing Conan's mind to control outside things to get the blood he needed. 

…but the drug can control Ran’s way of thinking? And it could be predicted that she’ll suspect Conan of being Shinichi, just so if he’ll be shot she can offer his blood? Sorry, but this seems ridiculous. I can see this as something Gosho thought about and he had to plan how one even lead to another, but what has the drug to do with it? Where’s logic in that? 

Conan is being used to see how the drug works with random events.

Still, I’m going to disagree. They could have used anyone. A police officer, or someone they were making a deal with. Why Conan? What’s so out-of-ordinary for him? Also when I suggested picking someone from the Org. they’ve could have picked anyone and giving them the drug in secret, like spiking the drink of their guinea pig. Still, it would allow the drug user to act “normallyâ€

[sstimson]

I’m glad you took your time to reply to me Mind if I question you further?

The other way to protect the user is for the user's mind to control things around them.

See, this is what I keep having doubts about. Thinking about DC as logical series, where everything is backed up with evidence, I try to find something that would support that. The user can’t be aware of being an experiment or the drug won’t have some effects, right? The mental state is important and the user can control it – more or less? So even though Shinichi thought with all his might he didn’t want to change back to being Conan, it’s still not enough…

Again no proof: The Bo is trying to life forever. The Drug Does De-age. No question about that

If I have such a drug that would only de-age me but make me more likely to die, then the drug is worthless. That is why I believe the drug must have another result. The drug should protect the user from death. There are as I said two ways to do this. One way is a complete shield where no illness or weapon or accident can harm you. Now we know that s not an after effect of the drug as Conan has caught colds and gotten hurt.

So the drug to protect you /me from harm / illness must work another way. I agree that saying the Drug by itself warps reality would be a stretch. But what if the Drug give the users mind a way to control reality? That would be more likely. A case of mind over matter. The Drug could cause the subconscious mind to help protect the drug user. That even if the user gets hurt or becomes ill, the subconscious makes sure that events will work out in a way that the Drug user ends up not dead or ill for long. 

But at this time Ran thought she knew who Conan was and so she give blood. I am not saying that for a fact this happened because of the drug, but it could be a case of the drug allowing Conan's mind to control outside things to get the blood he needed. 
…but the drug can control Ran’s way of thinking? And it could be predicted that she’ll suspect Conan of being Shinichi, just so if he’ll be shot she can offer his blood? Sorry, but this seems ridiculous. I can see this as something Gosho thought about and he had to plan how one even lead to another, but what has the drug to do with it? Where’s logic in that? 

Part 1 - No the drug did not do that. Not possible to prove but if Ran had not been there then either Conan's mind could make sure that any blood he got would be ok, or increase his own blood making to the point where he would not need any. What I was saying is Conan mind too advantage of Ran's ideas to provide Conan with a blood supply.

Part 2 - Part of the wild testing ( and very unplanned ) Conan got shoot. Conan mind make sure that there was 1) help to get him where he could be hepled 2) the neccessary help and supplies needed for his wound.

Conan is being used to see how the drug works with random events.

Still, I’m going to disagree. They could have used anyone. A police officer, or someone they were making a deal with. Why Conan? What’s so out-of-ordinary for him? Also when I suggested picking someone from the Org. they’ve could have picked anyone and giving them the drug in secret, like spiking the drink of their guinea pig. Still, it would allow the drug user to act “normallyâ€

[sstimson]

I might owe you a thanks for proof to my theory

Remember what I said about rumors?

Well here is what Conan said in 34-2

Spoiler:

This belongs here

[Chekhov MacGuffin]

I might owe you a thanks for proof to my theory. Remember what I said about rumors? Well here is what Conan said in 34-2

Spoiler:

This belongs here

Except you are pulling this out of context. There weren't any rumors. Vermouth stole the records on her own volition, and didn't tell anyone else in the syndicate that she did. Remember Vermouth already knows Shinichi=Conan. She knew back at the party when she saw Conan. So don't extrapolate Vermouth's actions to the Org in general.
In any case, this actually kind of refutes your argument. If you say the org is watching Shinichi closely, why would they need the case records since they already know what he is doing and how well he is solving cases anyway? In your version of DC, the Org doesn't need rumors, since they already know Conan = Shinichi...

[sstimson]

I might owe you a thanks for proof to my theory. Remember what I said about rumors? Well here is what Conan said in 34-2

Spoiler:

This belongs here

Except you are pulling this out of context. There weren't any rumors. Vermouth stole the records on her own volition, and didn't tell anyone else in the syndicate that she did. Remember Vermouth already knows Shinichi=Conan. She knew back at the party when she saw Conan. So don't extrapolate Vermouth's actions to the Org in general.
In any case, this actually kind of refutes your argument. If you say the org is watching Shinichi closely, why would they need the case records since they already know what he is doing and how well he is solving cases anyway? In your version of DC, the Org doesn't need rumors, since they already know Conan = Shinichi...

Yes and No. This is Shinichi not the BO. Does he know they know. No he does not. So he could reason such. He is proving my case by even believing it is possible. The Bo would be after Kudo Cases to see if the drug has had any negative effects on his mental abilities. Yes I know what you said. This is the idea. Better written down then from memory, this will give them a way to verify their memory.

Anyway. Let me put the idea to you again. You looking method. If Conan can believe that there might be rumors, does that mean his Deduction which are right most of the time would only be wrong this time or might there more to it? Because if that is the case then THEY KNOW.

[sstimson]

First sorry about the double post but is it Chev. fault no reply in about a month.

Typing about While Discussing hole in Chev theories, I noticed something that might help support my theory. You could calll it the strange behavior of Gin. If I right about why does happen, then this could be a support to my theory about the drug, Hairaba and raise new questions about how the BO really works.