Facts and Speculations

[TheBlind]

I recently ran across a topic discussing Understanding Mysteries and Secrets Revealed #19, which is a "factbook" that contains the hidden clues of the Detective Conan series but are they really facts or just speculations by an otaku?

This topic had bold claims that came from the book, but the two I want to focus " Gin and Sherry (Ai Haibara) being sexually involved in the past" and "Vermouth being Gin's lover at one point". Being a heavy Detective Conan fan (I re watch episodes daily..for no reason, it has become like breathing to me and I read the Manga thanks to DCTP) I have never seen ANY clues to support those two claims, so I was wondering if someone here could shine a bit more light on this?

[Juansmarts]

I think this person thought Gin and Sherry were intimate because in episode 176(?) or Volume 24, gin is thinking about Sherry, and a picture of her naked back was viewed, but I think it's just opinion

[Nyarl]

I recently ran across a topic discussing Understanding Mysteries and Secrets Revealed #19, which is a "factbook" that contains the hidden clues of the Detective Conan series but are they really facts or just speculations by an otaku?

This topic had bold claims that came from the book, but the two I want to focus " Gin and Sherry (Ai Haibara) being sexually involved in the past" and "Vermouth being Gin's lover at one point". Being a heavy Detective Conan fan (I re watch episodes daily..for no reason, it has become like breathing to me and I read the Manga thanks to DCTP) I have never seen ANY clues to support those two claims, so I was wondering if someone here could shine a bit more light on this?

It's fan speculation...

It's not really baseless, though. Vermouth once asked whether Gin wants to make some Martini with her that night (I guess that was too suggestive for the anime). She also writes an e-mail to Gin which she signs with symbolic kisses. However, I don't really think that proves much more than she's... uh… flirtatious.

As for Gin/Sherry, when Gin speaks of her, Aoyama tends to include a drawing of her nude form (the anime even kept one of the scenes). However, Aoyama has also done that when Shin'ichi was talking about non-recurring female characters. However, in file 24.7/ep. 176 (the same file/episode the Shiho nude is from) Haibara did have moment where, not long after having a nightmare about Gin, she pushed away from Ayumi, crying out, "Don't touch me." That's been interpreted by some fans to imply that she was the victim of a non consensual relationship at some point.

[Girl19]

I sometimes tend to believe that there's something hidden between Haibara and Gin, mainly because of the reasons "Nyarl" explained. But whether it's true or not, none can really know until Gosho-sama himself explains it more in the upcoming files. But there's something kinda weird about Haibara: we all know that she always seems scared when the BO's around (mainly Gin and Vermouth). People will think that she's afraid from being killed by one of them.. But, isn't Haibara "the suicidal type"? I mean, we've all seen her many times trying to end her life.. doesn't this mean that she's not afraid of death? Then, why does Gin (and Vermouth) scare her? This kinda leads to think that she was a victim of an abuse, maybe? I also read many times that Gin might have feelings for her; I don't think it's true but sometimes he seems kinda jealous of the "man" who helps Sherry...

As for VermouthXGin, there's something fishy as well. lol And I also read somewhere that Calvados was Vermouth's lover ( ). Well we all know Vermouth is kinda flirty anyways, and vey mysterious (she does keep secrets).

Let's just wait and see what Aoyama comes up with! *Enough crazy thoughts for me*  lol

[TheBlind]

It's fan speculation...

It's not really baseless, though. Vermouth once asked whether Gin wants to make some Martini with her that night (I guess that was too suggestive for the anime). She also writes an e-mail to Gin which she signs with symbolic kisses. However, I don't really think that proves much more than she's... uh… flirtatious.

As for Gin/Sherry, when Gin speaks of her, Aoyama tends to include a drawing of her nude form (the anime even kept one of the scenes). However, Aoyama has also done that when Shin'ichi was talking about non-recurring female characters. However, in file 24.7/ep. 176 (the same file/episode the Shiho nude is from) Haibara did have moment where, not long after having a nightmare about Gin, she pushed away from Ayumi, crying out, "Don't touch me." That's been interpreted by some fans to imply that she was the victim of a non consensual relationship at some point.

Well, nice to know I didn't miss some secret meeting where DC fans got to see secret episodes. The thing about Ai-Gin and Gin-Vermouth being in a so claimed "factbook" was a weird one. But even with fan speculation, I don't see anything to support these claims by the fans. The scene where Vermouth asked Gin about the Martini, I see that as the American Woman stereotype. It's no secret that American females are potrayed to be flirty and "bold" in Animes. Heck Jodie was shown with her breast hanging out when she was greeting Conan and Heiji to her house, that's how the Japanese think of American females. So that explains all of Vermouth's actions towards Gin or ANY male in the series. That's how I interpreted it.

The Gin and Ai, I feel that's a long stretch. A few reasons were provided in this thread, but all of them could be explained in other ways that make more sense.

*Gin imagines Ai naked - Ai has been on the run from the BO for a while and Gin knows she must of changed her appearance to avoid being detected. So Gin imagines her with no clothes for simplicity. Nyarl's explanation also fits.

*Ai pushes Ayumi away while remembering the Nightmare she had- This one is explained in the episode itself, Ai has come to the realization that if the BO finds her, it's not her only they are going to kill, they are going to kill all her friends too. Which is why she acts cold to Ayumi and states she's "tired of this place", she wants to distance herself from those she cares about so the BO won't get them. Best way to do that is to start telling her friends to get the hell away from her so they won't be her friends anymore. (Then Conan does his awesomeness and convinces her not to run cause Conan is awesome ).

*Girl19- The explanation for your theory is the same as above. If you notice, every time Ai's sensor goes off she becomes terrified, but not of being killed, but more of her friends being killed. If you notice, her sensor always goes into berserk mode when she senses the BO and her friends are present, which they're always are: on the bus, outside the burned apartment building, and etc. And the more of her friends are present the more scared she becomes like the bus vs. the party (ep.176) where it was only Conan. Someone she cares about is always present, and in one instant, she was contemplating running away to save her friends when her sensor went off. I think Ai has established she doesn't care if she dies (further plot twist?), she only worries that the BO will find her and the others will be around making her nightmare a reality. As for your 2nd point, I don't think Gin was being jealous  of Conan aka the man that has made his death bed, I believe he was more impressed/perplexed that some came to the aid of the cold Sherry he knew. Another interpretation could be that a part of Gin was thinking it could of been Akai. 


A point I would like to add of my own is Ai hasn't shown any single trait of a rape vitctim and Gin has never even hinted at stealing a kiss from her..not even innuendos, which I would assume would show up when he gets that big smile of his face when he believes she's around.

[kirite]

Short answer: no I don't think so.

Long answer: I heard this on other forums as well.  All I can say is what the hell?.  Who would write something like that in a freakin' official handbook?  The target audience for that type of merchandise is kids.  If I was the editor I'll smack the guy a good one.

Vermouth is flirtatious, but then I always though she only does that to use others to reach her personal gain (calvados).  Hey she's a sexy lady (obasan?), why waste it xD?

[SkyVenger]

I think Vermouth is using flirtatiousness for some sort of reason. Her mind goes wild and away from BO at times and it seems that she wants to create her own show. For her to allow Shinichi (as Conan) roaming around and attempting to destroy the org - isn't it wierd?

And yeah, I lol'd at her wanting to make Martini w/Gin and stuff. If I were some non-"DC fan", I'd say that Vermouth and Gin would make a child who will be the destroyer of the evil BO; used some sort of analogy there, lol.

Question (for) guys:

Spoiler:

What do you think is the state of Shiho's virginity?

[TheBlind]

Question (for) guys:

Spoiler:

What do you think is the state of Shiho's virginity?

That spoiler tag caught me off guard, was expecting anything but that . But to answer it, given what we have been shown of Shiho(which isn't much) when she was a member of the BO, I believe she wouldn't let anyone get close enough for a hug let alone...the spoiler. In ep. 176 she tells the story of how her sister sent her three floppies of her travels and Shiho just took a quick glance at them before returning them. If she acts this way towards her sister (the most important person to her) during her BO times, I doubt anyone else would get a chance to even keep a 5 minute conversation with her that's not a debriefing or a status report.

As Shiho (and early on as Haibara) she seemed too anti-social and seemed to believe that human relationships were unnecessary and a wast of time to put any effort into being with someone.

[SkyVenger]

Question (for) guys:

Spoiler:

What do you think is the state of Shiho's virginity?

That spoiler tag caught me off guard, was expecting anything but that . But to answer it, given what we have been shown of Shiho(which isn't much) when she was a member of the BO, I believe she wouldn't let anyone get close enough for a hug let alone...the spoiler. In ep. 176 she tells the story of how her sister sent her three floppies of her travels and Shiho just took a quick glance at them before returning them. If she acts this way towards her sister (the most important person to her) during her BO times, I doubt anyone else would get a chance to even keep a 5 minute conversation with her that's not a debriefing or a status report.

As Shiho (and early on as Haibara) she seemed too anti-social and seemed to believe that human relationships were unnecessary and a wast of time to put any effort into being with someone.

Well, yeah... but

Spoiler:

rape is possible. Hell, she's 18

Her actions of fear is proof of her being helpless against BO. Pushing away Ai in that nightmare issue somehow means that there was "touching" involved (even just a pat in the shoulder)

[Misztina]

I believe he was more impressed/perplexed that some came to the aid of the cold Sherry he knew. Another interpretation could be that a part of Gin was thinking it could of been Akai.& nbsp;

Yeah. I must say, that Sherry was very lucky/clever/whatever that she let Shinichi alive, since the BO, until now, cannot find a person who was connected to Sherry in any way, I'm sure they checked everyone she might have known, but would never guess that she has the connection to Shinichi, since they've never met before(I mean Shiho & Shinichi). Then again, once the BO finds out that he is alive, they'll find out everything.

Somehow I find this brilliant. And I got off-topic. ^^"

The other brilliant thing is, that the sexual relationship might have been implied, but we will never know it for sure. I have great doubts that Gosho would talk about that part in the manga ever, so I think he intended to let it "hang in the air" and let the reader decide what to think.

[DarkAap]

Question (for) guys:

Spoiler:

What do you think is the state of Shiho's virginity?

Spoiler:

As said before, Haibara shows none of the signs of a rape victim. She spend her entire life learning things and researching things for the B.O. I might not be the writer of DC (Thank the heavens for that ), but how many 18-year old girls (in "Evil" Organisations) who have no interest in anything but their studies and research do you know that have time for anything else? Let alone a sexual relationship with a man? Although there are undoubtly some (even I know a few, except for the 'evil organisation' part ), remember what TheBlind said about her relationship with her sister. Although certainly not impossible, I simply cannot believe Shiho lost her virginity. And like Misztina said, Gosho will probably never tell us.

After all, DC is not a hentai (Thank the heavens, imagine that, DC would have ended after a few volumes T_T)

[Rellik]

no, it would last longer, wit more audience actually lol

and terrifyingly it's true as well lol

[Nyarl]

Question (for) guys:

Spoiler:

What do you think is the state of Shiho's virginity?

Spoiler:

As said before, Haibara shows none of the signs of a rape victim. She spend her entire life learning things and researching things for the B.O. I might not be the writer of DC (Thank the heavens for that ), but how many 18-year old girls (in "Evil" Organisations) who have no interest in anything but their studies and research do you know that have time for anything else? Let alone a sexual relationship with a man? Although there are undoubtly some (even I know a few, except for the 'evil organisation' part ), remember what TheBlind said about her relationship with her sister. Although certainly not impossible, I simply cannot believe Shiho lost her virginity. And like Misztina said, Gosho will probably never tell us.

After all, DC is not a hentai (Thank the heavens, imagine that, DC would have ended after a few volumes T_T)

::sigh::

Spoiler:

Rape has been implied in shonen stories before, the Full Metal Alchemist anime, for instance. Potential rape has been touched on by implication in Detective Conan, too, both in anime originals and canon manga stories (Shiratori and Megure were once worried about Sato being being held hostage and "hurt"). It doesn't need to be "hentai" to be made pretty clear, if not explicitly stated, for the older readers.

That said I haven't really decided whether it's true. Gin is a pretty creepy guy, though, so it wouldn't surprise me.

[DarkWolfYoukai]

I think it would be a very interesting addition to the plot if Gin actually did do something to her.  I wouldn't put him above rape, and I doubt the boss would really care as long as Haibara continued to work on APTX.  However, there really are few signs of rape unless extreme subtlety is definitely what Gosho is going for.

[TheBlind]

Well, yeah... but

Spoiler:

rape is possible. Hell, she's 18

Her actions of fear is proof of her being helpless against BO. Pushing away Ai in that nightmare issue somehow means that there was "touching" involved (even just a pat in the shoulder)

I believe she was 21 when she took the APTX4869. As for the rape, actually no, it's not possible because Haibara has all opposite traits of a rape victim. Let's focus on the "nightmare" issue which I already explained, but lets do it again in more detail.

Haibaira has a dream that she's happily walking down the street and Gin finds her with her friends, not her by herself, with her friends and she sees Gin. This puts her in a state of shock because her greatest fear is that the people she has grown to care about would be killed by Gin/BO just like her sister was. She doesn't want to feel that pain again, that is her personality. She rather remove herself of human emotions (until she meets Conan) then to have something and lose it. So she has the dream and starts recollecting about it in class when Ayumi touches her arm, and if you watch the episode, a normal rape victim would instantly react and push Ayumi away but Haibara doesn't do this. She simple looks at Ayumi, pauses, and in a calm voice tells her not to touch her and that she is tired "Of this place and one day will probably leave". This is her trying to break her ties with her new friends and even trying to run away until they convince her otherwise.

Then a few hours later, in part three of this case(ep.178), Gin corners Haibara on a roof.Gin shots her once to get information on her escape and she responds with sarcasm( I love that about her ). She is trapped with no where to go with her supposed rapist in front of her holding a gun, this scenario would send a rape victim into a state of shock that they may never recover from but Haibara only shows confidence in this scene. Then even after repeatably being shot to the point her limbs do not work properly, she continues to not give Gin the information he desires. Then Gin proceeds to mock her dead sister before going for the final shot and Haibara just stares at him with a look of defiance. So those argueing the the "touch" earlier in the case is proof are essentially arguing that a rape victim went from extreme fear of just having a dream of her rapist to the point of total defiance of said rapist even after being shot 5 times in a matter of hours?

Seems people are just looking to much into things and creating things that are not there and where never meant to be there by Gosho. Someone mentioned FMA, watch the later episodes of that series, that is a standard example of a rape victim in an anime and Haibara doesn't exhibit any of those traits, not even standard text book traits.

As for your 2nd point, like I said in a previous post and this one, her fear only rises when the BO gets involved with her friends around. Alone she doesn't fear them so there is no "proof of her being helpless against the BO" when the danger of one of her friends being killed isn't present aka The Roof Scene or the stopping of the APTX.