Forum reserved for discussing specific points of the story—mostly from the manga. Be warned, these discussions will be current with the manga and will spoil many plot lines for anime-centric fans.
Just wondering: Is it even proven that Haibara knows about Akai's/the FBIs indirect involvement in Akemi's death?
I thought she handcuffed herself back then, when she was still a member, to get information about her sisters death - meaning she didn't have any at that time. Then she attempted suicide, fled when it failed and went to Conan whom she knew had been present and thus could provide her with some answers. So she now certainly knows about Akemi's plan to get them out of the BO and how it failed, but not necessarily about everything that went on beforehand, as at least Conan 'missed' to tell her about it.
Also I'm wondering whether Haibara knows, that Moroboshi Dai = Rye. Like someone said before, as a scientist she was most likely in the labs for the majority of her time. She could have met them once or twice when Akai was trying to get into the organization by dating Akemi, thus the memory. If she didn't see him after he was further inside, she wouldn't know that he acquired these bad-org-vibes she can sense. Chances of her not knowing are low but I can't help but think that she might have recognized him in that bus case with Akai and Jodie, where Conan had to save her. If she can specifically detect Vermouths 'aura' she would probably be able to distinguish her sister's boyfriend's as well? If she hadn't known, however, she wouldn't have thought of the connection between Moroboshi Dai and the BO in the form of Rye and thus would have been as afraid as she was. Also if she had known about Rye as an FBI agent, wouldn't she have asked Conan about the FBI persons he was working with to fish for further information?
I know, it's not very likely that she is this misinformed/oblivious, but people have mentioned Haibara confronting Okiya because of Akemi's death and I couldn't help but wonder. For a major character she sometimes seems to be the least informed about what's going on.
Please feel free to correct the above, if I missed something. ^^
Just wondering: Is it even proven that Haibara knows about Akai's/the FBIs indirect involvement in Akemi's death?
I thought she handcuffed herself back then, when she was still a member, to get information about her sisters death - meaning she didn't have any at that time. Then she attempted suicide, fled when it failed and went to Conan whom she knew had been present and thus could provide her with some answers. So she now certainly knows about Akemi's plan to get them out of the BO and how it failed, but not necessarily about everything that went on beforehand, as at least Conan 'missed' to tell her about it.
Also I'm wondering whether Haibara knows, that Moroboshi Dai = Rye. Like someone said before, as a scientist she was most likely in the labs for the majority of her time. She could have met them once or twice when Akai was trying to get into the organization by dating Akemi, thus the memory. If she didn't see him after he was further inside, she wouldn't know that he acquired these bad-org-vibes she can sense. Chances of her not knowing are low but I can't help but think that she might have recognized him in that bus case with Akai and Jodie, where Conan had to save her. If she can specifically detect Vermouths 'aura' she would probably be able to distinguish her sister's boyfriend's as well? If she hadn't known, however, she wouldn't have thought of the connection between Moroboshi Dai and the BO in the form of Rye and thus would have been as afraid as she was. Also if she had known about Rye as an FBI agent, wouldn't she have asked Conan about the FBI persons he was working with to fish for further information?
I know, it's not very likely that she is this misinformed/oblivious, but people have mentioned Haibara confronting Okiya because of Akemi's death and I couldn't help but wonder. For a major character she sometimes seems to be the least informed about what's going on.
Please feel free to correct the above, if I missed something. ^^
I don't think you need to use spoiler
I thought she handcuffed herself back then<<<
No. She stop working on the drug, knowing it important to BO, try to force them to give an answer why they kill Akemi. They locked her up instead, so she tried to kill herself with APTX, result in escaping.
to get information about her sisters death - meaning she didn't have any at that time.<<< Yes. She could have guess that because Akemi dates Moroboshi Dai (whom she know in person). And them Dai "betrey" BO and disappear. But she seem to think BO don't have
justification to kill her sister.
Also I'm wondering whether Haibara knows, that Moroboshi Dai = Rye<<< Yes, but she cannot connect this guy with "Akai the FBI" who Conan mentioned
she might have recognized him in that bus case with Akai and Jodie<<< No, she busy hide herself from Vermouth, who she can't even tell which one is. She just know Vermouth was there.
she would probably be able to distinguish her sister's boyfriend's as well?<<< As show in Subaru's first case. Haibara could not pinpoint the source of aura if multiple suspects are present
Also if she had known about Rye as an FBI agent, wouldn't she have asked Conan about the FBI persons he was working with to fish for further information?<<< We don't sure if Haibara know Dai is FBI. I assume yes. But FBI is a large organization. Conan connection with 2-3 people don't mean they know Dai (although they know).
For a major character she sometimes seems to be the least informed about what's going on. <<< Say that and you get a horn in the belly *joking*. Really, for the one who already involve, yes, she was kept in the dark too much.
Last edited by User 4869 on December 29th, 2011, 8:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"don't make such a face" in Clash of Red and Black.
[/quote] Akai said that to Conan in the hospital while they were discussing about what to do with Kir on chapter 602. That time Conan seemed to be doubting Akai's plan
"don't make such a face" in Clash of Red and Black.
Akai said that to Conan in the hospital while they were discussing about what to do with Kir on chapter 602. That time Conan seemed to be doubting Akai's plan [/quote] Ohhh yeah, I finally remember '^^ thank you for refreshing my memory
802 spoiler [spoiler] roughly (~google) translation from last page of Conan's thoughts on the case on hand (another attempted murder thwarted by Conan and the DB):
Assuming the Okiya= Akai theory, maybe the reason for Haibara calling him Subaru-san has to do with the statement " Don't make that kind of face. I won't let them get away."Perhaps she had heard this statement from Akai (on the premises that she has enough interactions with him and she has been put in a situation similar to something like that) and maybe she made the connection between that statement and Akai ( in my opinion, the statement is decidedly Akai-ish) and perhaps in her subconscious accepted him as a "friend"? Or maybe she kind of already guessed that Conan has some kind of reason for his unconditional trust to Okiya, and then thinks about that Akai person and could make a connection
crack theories are crack, and should not be treated seriously.
I agree with this. Just look at what Akai said in this chapter.
gasp! it has been called with proof! On page 11 no less!
Rough translation of Haibara's thoughts.I am effectively bilingual (english/chinese). But it's slightly different, because I learn simplified Chinese and the scans are in tradtitional chinese. Nevertheless, I get what it's talking about.
Spoiler:
In flashback
Okiya to Haibara: Don't make that kind of face. I won't let them get away.
Haibara (in thoughts): Don't make that kind of face...Don't make that kind of (is incomplete)
Akai (a.k.a Moroboshi Dai): Don't make that kind of face. Even if it costs me my life, I will protect you.
Haibara : Moroboshi Dai betrayed my sister. He was my sister's lover...
DB's continue chatting away, end flashback.
gasps! Haibara thinks Okiya=Dai=Akai!
P.S. You can ask me to translate some things from the Chinese version if you want to, but I do not guarantee 100% accuracy (due to simplified chinese and traditional chinese differences.) Is very lazy and therefore will take sometime, especially with large chunks of text.
Last edited by aries-chan on December 30th, 2011, 2:42 am, edited 1 time in total.
~an aries, math nerd and generally bored person <3~
Okiya to Haibara: Don't make that kind of face. I won't let them get away.
Haibara (in thoughts): Don't make that kind of face...Don't make that kind of (is incomplete)
Akai (a.k.a Moroboshi Dai): Don't make that kind of face. Even if it costs me my life, I will protect you.
Haibara : Moroboshi Dai betrayed my sister. He was my sister's lover...
DB's continue chatting away, end flashback.
gasps! Haibara thinks Okiya=Dai=Akai!
P.S. You can ask me to translate some things from the Chinese version if you want to, but I do not guarantee 100% accuracy (due to simplified chinese and traditional chinese differences.) Is very lazy and therefore will take sometime, especially with large chunks of text.
Actually, it is like this:
Spoiler:
Okiya to Haibara: Don't make that kind of face. I won't let them get away.
Haibara (in thoughts): Don't make that kind of face...Don't make that kind of (is incomplete)
Akai (a.k.a Moroboshi Dai): Don't make that kind of face. Even if it costs me my life, I will protect [...] (we don't know protect what because Japanese is always like that, we have to know the previous state or the whole conversation to know what they're talking about, but the Chinese translated it to "protect you")
Haibara : Moroboshi Dai betrayed the organization. He was my sister's lover...
DB's continue chatting away, end flashback.
And Haibara thinks Okiya = Dai = Akai. She doesn't know Dai = Akai, right?
I know English, a little Chinese, and currently learning Japanese ^^
Last edited by shuu on December 30th, 2011, 7:32 am, edited 1 time in total.
Okiya to Haibara: Don't make that kind of face. I won't let them get away.
Haibara (in thoughts): Don't make that kind of face...Don't make that kind of (is incomplete)
Akai (a.k.a Moroboshi Dai): Don't make that kind of face. Even if it costs me my life, I will protect you.
Haibara : Moroboshi Dai betrayed my sister. He was my sister's lover...
DB's continue chatting away, end flashback.
gasps! Haibara thinks Okiya=Dai=Akai!
P.S. You can ask me to translate some things from the Chinese version if you want to, but I do not guarantee 100% accuracy (due to simplified chinese and traditional chinese differences.) Is very lazy and therefore will take sometime, especially with large chunks of text.
Actually, it is like this:
Spoiler:
Okiya to Haibara: Don't make that kind of face. I won't let them get away.
Haibara (in thoughts): Don't make that kind of face...Don't make that kind of (is incomplete)
Akai (a.k.a Moroboshi Dai): Don't make that kind of face. Even if it costs me my life, I will protect [...] (we don't know protect what because Japanese is always like that, we have to know the previous state or the whole conversation to know what they're talking about, but the Chinese translated it to "protect you")
Haibara : Moroboshi Dai betrayed the organization. He was my sister's lover...
DB's continue chatting away, end flashback.
And Haibara thinks Okiya = Dai [s]= Akai[/s]. She doesn't know Dai = Akai, right?
I know English, a little Chinese, and currently learning Japanese ^^
Spoiler:
eeks! I misread the "zu" as "jie"! How could I? ~rushes off to write the word 100 times.~
and thanks for bothering to read the translation (has greatly unpolished skills.)
and yes, she doesn't know that Dai=Akai.
made many careless mistakes. (feels bad)
~an aries, math nerd and generally bored person <3~
