Bourbon's Identity: Who is Bourbon!?

[kentasaiba]

The better question is: Why hates Bourbon Akai?
Possiblys szenarios:
- Akai killed Bourbons girlfriend while a BO-Mission.
- Bourbon is jealously on Akais cool look, so he disguise as him
- Bourbon had an affair with Akemi, but Akai pulled him out
- Bourbon is a lolicon and jealously on Akai, because he is in Shihos near.
- Bourbon is a shoutacon and is jealously on Akai, because he is in Conans near
- Bourbon works in a Maid-Cafe after work for the BO, Akai found out about that.

[Shuuichi Akai]

The better question is: Why hates Bourbon Akai?
Possiblys szenarios:
- Akai killed Bourbons girlfriend while a BO-Mission.
- Bourbon is jealously on Akais cool look, so he disguise as him
- Bourbon had an affair with Akemi, but Akai pulled him out
- Bourbon is a lolicon and jealously on Akai, because he is in Shihos near.
- Bourbon is a shoutacon and is jealously on Akai, because he is in Conans near
- Bourbon works in a Maid-Cafe after work for the BO, Akai found out about that.

Borboun with Akemi? cool!

[Dus]

The better question is: Why hates Bourbon Akai?
Possiblys szenarios:
- Akai killed Bourbons girlfriend while a BO-Mission.
- Bourbon is jealously on Akais cool look, so he disguise as him
- Bourbon had an affair with Akemi, but Akai pulled him out

I still think Bourbon is actually Akai's Brother. Explains the similiarity. Explains the hatred (like this one guy had his face operated to look like a famous detective). The scar could be self-mutiliation. Explains how Akai could infiltrate the BO.

[Chekhov MacGuffin]

I still think Bourbon is actually Akai's Brother. Explains the similiarity. Explains the hatred (like this one guy had his face operated to look like a famous detective). The scar could be self-mutiliation. Explains how Akai could infiltrate the BO.

So far, the explanation for how Akai got in the Org was through befriending Akemi. (Then making contact with Shiho? I think the FBI said this somewhere but I'm having a memory lapse today...) As for scar Akai, I think the burn scar was to evoke the fiery explosion escape, but whether it's Bourbon's real face or just a mask is unknown. I'm sliding slightly with mask since scar Akai's face was in shadow in the manga when the tape was removed (which would definitely disrupt the mark... ) and plastic surgery would take time to heal from (how much), but there isn't enough evidence to say for sure either way.

[sstimson]

There is a saying that if you tell a lie enough time people start to believe the Lie.

But remember it is still a lie.

[Dus]

@sstimson: What are you referring to? Do you think that ScarAkai isn't Bourbon?

@Chekhov: The FBI would need to know a lot about the structure of the BO to know that Akemi is a member. Apparently, they already knew about her sister when Shuichi befriended Akemi. If Bourbon did wear a mask, he must have gotten it from Vermouth. Because all the people who are able to make these masks have been Toichi's students. I don't think Bourbon was one of them. But I can't see a reason for Vermouth to co-operate with him.

How do you interpret Subaru's words, that he thought ScarAkai was someone else? Could I be anyone but Shuichi?

[Kor]

he must have gotten it from Vermouth. Because all the people who are able to make these masks have been Toichi's students.

Wrong. Mermaid's island.

Anyway, the problem with Bourbon being Akai's brother (and Bourbon being Scar Akai) is the fact that he didn't speak to Jodie. Since they look exactly the same (aside from the scar), it's very unlikely Gosho just intended to play the "brothers" theme but more likely the "twins" theme. But twins usually sound very much the same (as long as they are from the same gender of course), so I'm going with plastic surgery.

[Dus]

he must have gotten it from Vermouth. Because all the people who are able to make these masks have been Toichi's students.

Wrong. Mermaid's island.

true. Completely forgot about that. Still, that Mask was of a different making. When you pull the Toichi-style off, they usually tear (not re-usable). The one in that case could have been bought in a shop

Anyway, the problem with Bourbon being Akai's brother (and Bourbon being Scar Akai) is the fact that he didn't speak to Jodie. Since they look exactly the same (aside from the scar), it's very unlikely Gosho just intended to play the "brothers" theme but more likely the "twins" theme. But twins usually sound very much the same (as long as they are from the same gender of course), so I'm going with plastic surgery.

Maybe he isn't really fluent at Japanese? He was just flown in from the States, so he would have worked for the BO there. The fact that Shuichi works for the FBI could mean they're only half-japanese.

[Chekhov MacGuffin]

How do you interpret Subaru's words, that he thought ScarAkai was someone else? Could I be anyone but Shuichi?

It was a message for Conan. Conan knows from what Okiya said that he had seen scar Akai, and Okiya's comments that, "Actually, I happened to see him on that floor. Unfortunately, it seems he wasn't who I thought he was, so I didn't talk to him. I've known his face for a very long time... There's no way I could be mistaken." You can parse his quote this way: "Actually, I happened to see that person who looked like Akai on that floor. This Akai wasn't the real Akai (since I'm the real one), and I didn't confront him. Being the real Akai, this scar Akai is obviously someone else..." Okiya is layering is conversation with a second meaning, confirming there is someone disguising as Akai, for Conan's benefit, and Conan is a bit surprised and nervous about the info since someone in the Org most likely is Scar Akai since they have the motive.

Maybe he isn't really fluent at Japanese? He was just flown in from the States, so he would have worked for the BO there. The fact that Shuichi works for the FBI could mean they're only half-japanese.

I think the dude who scar Akai returned the phone to would have said something about him sounding foreign since Japanese people seem generally sensitive to foreign-ness. (Jodie's non-Japanese characteristics are brought up constantly.) He was specific with the hat and the eyes after all.

[Dus]

It was a message for Conan. Conan knows from what Okiya said that he had seen scar Akai, and Okiya's comments that, "Actually, I happened to see him on that floor. Unfortunately, it seems he wasn't who I thought he was, so I didn't talk to him. I've known his face for a very long time... There's no way I could be mistaken." You can parse his quote this way: "Actually, I happened to see that person who looked like Akai on that floor. This Akai wasn't the real Akai (since I'm the real one), and I didn't confront him. Being the real Akai, this scar Akai is obviously someone else..." Okiya is layering is conversation with a second meaning, confirming there is someone disguising as Akai, for Conan's benefit, and Conan is a bit surprised and nervous about the info since someone in the Org most likely is Scar Akai since they have the motive.

Then again, if Subaru is Shuichi he shouldn't need to tell Conan that that wasn't really him. Makes more sense if Shuichi is supposed to be hiding.

I think the dude who scar Akai returned the phone to would have said something about him sounding foreign since Japanese people seem generally sensitive to foreign-ness. (Jodie's non-Japanese characteristics are brought up constantly.) He was specific with the hat and the eyes after all.

True. But it might also be the other way round. It would really mak more sense for the Fbi to talk to each other in English and Bourbon's English might be worse than his brother's. He isn't afraid of speaking to people who have nothing to do with the FBI.

[Chekhov MacGuffin]

Then again, if Subaru is Shuichi he shouldn't need to tell Conan that that wasn't really him. Makes more sense if Shuichi is supposed to be hiding.

The main point was to confirm there was someone in disguise as Akai for Conan who only had secondhand knowledge from the DB, and also to confirm it wasn't Subaru taking a day off from squinting for some strange reason.

[Dus]

Subaru couldn't know Conan saw Scar-Akai that day, so he made sure to reassure him. Makes sense now. I still think Conan looks quite distraught, but otherwise you convinced me.

[Detective Prince]

Now that I think about it..the day Akai "died" and the day Okiya moved into the apartment similiar? I mean if Okiya had been in that apartment before Akai's death doesn't that rule out him being Akai?

[Dus]

Chekhov and me recently talked about that in another thread, but I cannot remember where it was...
Basically Okiya might have been living undercover even before he died, as the BO know his face. His colleagues didn't know where he lodged either if you ask me.

[delsie29]

Subaru couldn't know Conan saw Scar-Akai that day, so he made sure to reassure him. Makes sense now. I still think Conan looks quite distraught, but otherwise you convinced me.

As Chekhov has already posted before, I think suddenly hearing about the person living in disguise at your house suddenly appearing out of disguise in public would be very unnerving. If it was part of a carefully crafted plan and suddenly he was throwing it to the wind.... That would be reason to freak out.

I also had the thought that this would mean that Bourbon is coming at them from an unexpected angle. As far as Conan knows, Bourbon's target is Sherry. Conan lacks the backstory of Bourbon hating Akai, so disguising as Akai and hanging around the FBI would, I imagine, seem very out of the blue. (I suppose it's possible to argue that Bourbon could be trying to find Sherry through the FBI...but that assumes that he/the BO are aware of quite a few details.)

And if this is a BO member messing with the FBI, how would you warn them of that at this point? Without revealing that it can't be Akai because the real Akai is alive and living in Shinichi's house, how could you convince Jodie (and now Camel) that is a bad guy and not put everyone is terrible danger?

So, basically, it's quite the tangled mess. (Also, if Okiya saw scar-Akai, then for Conan there could the further worry that scar-Akai saw Okiya.....)

Of course, this all falls apart if Okiya isn't Akai and scar-Akai isn't Bourbon.


(Sorry if my entry into this discussion seems rather random! One of the drawbacks of lurking....)