Chekhov's theories about the plot

Forum reserved for discussing specific points of the story—mostly from the manga. Be warned, these discussions will be current with the manga and will spoil many plot lines for anime-centric fans.
ShinRan4ver
Posts: 568

Re: Chekhov's theories about the plot

Postby ShinRan4ver » April 24th, 2012, 5:31 am

One thing to add on the Okiya=Akai agrument, in Okiya's first appearance he was refered to by his landlord's son as "the Red Guy", since the color Red is in Akai's kanji name this might be a hint that Gosho planted from the start.

Now about the recurring charcater never gets killed thing, Miyano Akemi appeared twice, in episode 13 and 128 and was killed in the later episode(not to mention both are 1Billion Yen Bank Robbing Cases). Episode 13 is Vol 02 File 04 - 06 + Anime Original so I guess mentioning her name in episode 13 wasn't canon but was AO?

Edit: Sorry if this was mentioned before by someone else in the 40 pages of discussion, didn't have time to look through it all just checked the first page.
Last edited by ShinRan4ver on April 24th, 2012, 6:00 am, edited 1 time in total.
mangaluva
User avatar

Fangirl, Pokefreak, Grammar Roman, Movie Geek

Posts: 5234

Contact:

Re: Chekhov's theories about the plot

Postby mangaluva » April 24th, 2012, 6:06 am

Episode 13 started off on the canon case but with an AO ending since they didn't realize that her death would be so important later. That was why they hastily added in a different case where Akemi died at the end directly before Shiho appeared. For the timeline of Akemi's life, manga>anime.
M.Holmes
User avatar
Posts: 54

Re: Chekhov's theories about the plot

Postby M.Holmes » April 24th, 2012, 9:40 am

mangaluva wrote:Episode 13 started off on the canon case but with an AO ending since they didn't realize that her death would be so important later. That was why they hastily added in a different case where Akemi died at the end directly before Shiho appeared. For the timeline of Akemi's life, manga>anime.


That always irked me. I don't see why they didn't just stick to the manga.
"It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts."
mangaluva
User avatar

Fangirl, Pokefreak, Grammar Roman, Movie Geek

Posts: 5234

Contact:

Re: Chekhov's theories about the plot

Postby mangaluva » April 24th, 2012, 10:02 am

M.Holmes wrote:
mangaluva wrote:Episode 13 started off on the canon case but with an AO ending since they didn't realize that her death would be so important later. That was why they hastily added in a different case where Akemi died at the end directly before Shiho appeared. For the timeline of Akemi's life, manga>anime.


That always irked me. I don't see why they didn't just stick to the manga.


I think they genuinely didn't recognize the importance of the Akemi case at the time.
ShinRan4ver
Posts: 568

Re: Chekhov's theories about the plot

Postby ShinRan4ver » April 24th, 2012, 10:22 am

mangaluva wrote:
M.Holmes wrote:
mangaluva wrote:Episode 13 started off on the canon case but with an AO ending since they didn't realize that her death would be so important later. That was why they hastily added in a different case where Akemi died at the end directly before Shiho appeared. For the timeline of Akemi's life, manga>anime.




That always irked me. I don't see why they didn't just stick to the manga.


I think they genuinely didn't recognize the importance of the Akemi case at the time.


That's what I thought but I didn't have that file so I couldn't confirm myself.
sstimson
User avatar

Everyone a Critic

Posts: 2658

Contact:

Re: Chekhov's theories about the plot

Postby sstimson » April 24th, 2012, 2:38 pm

It is an opinion and likely not based on fact. But the reason Akemi was kept alive in Episode 13 might be 1) very early in the series. 2) A character that you get to met and like, not an unknown to the main characters that is killed right near the beginning. 3) It likely with those two items that the powers to be decided she did not fit the mold of a character murdered on the show. Note but for her, no others are killed near the end of an episode. she is likely to be the first and last for that

One of early case of note is episode five, the train bomb case. The two main bad guys in that case are suppose to be Gin and Vodka. But in the anime they are arrested and are not the same as the one is the first case where Conan came to be. Again the powers to be changing the story near the start of the series and introducing a plot hole about how Conan learned about Gin's name.
Last edited by sstimson on April 24th, 2012, 2:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Later

Invisible Member
canyoutakemeback
User avatar
Posts: 21

Re: Chekhov's theories about the plot

Postby canyoutakemeback » May 7th, 2012, 12:21 pm

I have a question.
Did Aoyama say in his interview that the Boss was introduced ( people introduced in a small case or Okino Yoko,...)
OR did he say that the Boss's name was mentioned ( like the Miyano's,..) ???
If I had to choose, I'd say black because it is a color that covers things inside me that I don't want known. Well, I hate the color black for the same reason as well.
Chekhov MacGuffin
Community Scholar
User avatar

BAGA BGEGD EDBDEG A

Posts: 2762

Re: Chekhov's theories about the plot

Postby Chekhov MacGuffin » May 7th, 2012, 12:46 pm

canyoutakemeback wrote:I have a question.
Did Aoyama say in his interview that the Boss was introduced ( people introduced in a small case or Okino Yoko,...)
OR did he say that the Boss's name was mentioned ( like the Miyano's,..) ???

Aoyama specified that the name of the boss has appeared somewhere in the manga. It was not clarified whether the boss has appeared in person.
2006年朝日新聞夕刊のインタビュー記事より (2006年1月13日(金))
From 2006 Asahi Evening Newspaper interview article (Friday January 13, 2006)
実はボスの名前は既に原作のどこかにでている。捜してみて下さい。…
In fact, the boss' name already appeared somewhere in the manga. Please see if you can find it. . . .
Translation credit to JustWantAnAccount
Confirmed print version.

Personally, I feel that if the boss had appeared Gosho would have said so instead of specifying only the name, but that's just a hunch.
Last edited by Chekhov MacGuffin on May 5th, 2013, 6:27 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Image
kei
User avatar

'How is this a new gadget? You just put a fax machine in a bentou.'

Posts: 198

Re: Chekhov's theories about the plot

Postby kei » May 8th, 2012, 10:07 pm

I have a question about Conan/Haibara having a cold. I don't remember reading about this, so I guess here is the correct place to ask if you have a theory about it.

Before the antidote was introduced, when both Conan and Haibara first transformed into Shinichi and Shiho (respectively) they used Baijiu, which worked because they were sick and had a weakened immune system. So, it seems that in both occasions having a cold was a necessary condition to make Baijiu work as an antidote.
The next transformations occurred with the antidote of APTX with Conan
Spoiler: Last file
(and now Haibara)
having previously a cold.
So, the question: is there a coincidence between this two things or maybe it has some kind of meaning?
I also think that it can possibly be a sign from Gosho to tell us that it might be a transformation soon; does it sound plausible?

In spite of everything I wrote before, in the Holmes Revelation arc when Conan transformed three times he didn't have such colds... so I'm kind of confused now. :-\
Image
Chekhov MacGuffin
Community Scholar
User avatar

BAGA BGEGD EDBDEG A

Posts: 2762

Re: Chekhov's theories about the plot

Postby Chekhov MacGuffin » May 8th, 2012, 11:03 pm

Every time an antidote has been used, that person has been at least slightly under the weather as you pointed out. I don't think Gosho would be making his characters get sick if it wasn't strictly necessary because the pattern is pretty noticeable and does ruin the surprise, so I assume mild illness is needed for the antidote to work mostly properly. Although, since we have no sure counterexamples, it's impossible to be confident.  

Conan might have been ill during the Holmes case and not faking it completely...
on the plane
Last edited by Chekhov MacGuffin on May 8th, 2012, 11:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Image
ShinRan4ver
Posts: 568

Re: Chekhov's theories about the plot

Postby ShinRan4ver » May 8th, 2012, 11:10 pm

Chekhov MacGuffin wrote:Every time an antidote has been used, that person has been at least slightly under the weather as you pointed out. I don't think Gosho would be making his characters get sick if it wasn't strictly necessary because the pattern is pretty noticeable and does ruin the surprise, so I assume mild illness is needed for the antidote to work mostly properly. Although, since we have no sure counterexamples, it's impossible to be confident.  

Conan might have been ill during the Holmes case and not faking it completely...
on the plane


Not entirely sure, since the previous scene was Ran thinking about Shinichi, Shinichi's cough right after that is from the same "you cough when someone thinks about you" pattern.
Last edited by ShinRan4ver on May 8th, 2012, 11:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
kei
User avatar

'How is this a new gadget? You just put a fax machine in a bentou.'

Posts: 198

Re: Chekhov's theories about the plot

Postby kei » May 8th, 2012, 11:13 pm

I assume that having a cold weakens their immune system, which helps to last the antidote more.

Chekhov MacGuffin wrote:Conan might have been ill during the Holmes case and not faking it completely...
http://www.dctp.ws/V71-Reader/V71-3Read/A8.html


About this, I didn't think he had a cold because in the previous page Ran was speaking about Shinichi, so that sneeze was "a consequence" of that. [ShinRan4ver just pointed it out]
Furthermore, every time a character is sick it's stated clearly that situation so there is no margin of doubt.
Last edited by kei on May 8th, 2012, 11:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Image
Chekhov MacGuffin
Community Scholar
User avatar

BAGA BGEGD EDBDEG A

Posts: 2762

Re: Chekhov's theories about the plot

Postby Chekhov MacGuffin » May 9th, 2012, 12:34 am

kei wrote:I assume that having a cold weakens their immune system, which helps to last the antidote more.

Chekhov MacGuffin wrote:Conan might have been ill during the Holmes case and not faking it completely...
http://www.dctp.ws/V71-Reader/V71-3Read/A8.html


About this, I didn't think he had a cold because in the previous page Ran was speaking about Shinichi, so that sneeze was "a consequence" of that. [ShinRan4ver just pointed it out]
Furthermore, every time a character is sick it's stated clearly that situation so there is no margin of doubt.


Fair enough, but I don't know why Gosho would intentionally give Conan and Haibara colds or illnesses come time to use the antidote when it would be a lot more surprising and dramatic to have it come up without the sick hinting.
Image
kei
User avatar

'How is this a new gadget? You just put a fax machine in a bentou.'

Posts: 198

Re: Chekhov's theories about the plot

Postby kei » May 9th, 2012, 12:57 am

Chekhov MacGuffin wrote:
kei wrote:I assume that having a cold weakens their immune system, which helps to last the antidote more.

Chekhov MacGuffin wrote:Conan might have been ill during the Holmes case and not faking it completely...
http://www.dctp.ws/V71-Reader/V71-3Read/A8.html


About this, I didn't think he had a cold because in the previous page Ran was speaking about Shinichi, so that sneeze was "a consequence" of that. [ShinRan4ver just pointed it out]
Furthermore, every time a character is sick it's stated clearly that situation so there is no margin of doubt.


Fair enough, but I don't know why Gosho would intentionally give Conan and Haibara colds or illnesses come time to use the antidote when it would be a lot more surprising and dramatic to have it come up without the sick hinting.


That's what puzzles me...
Image
User 4869
Posts: 629

Re: Chekhov's theories about the plot

Postby User 4869 » May 9th, 2012, 1:31 am

Foreshadowing?

Return to “Story Discussion (Manga Spoilers)”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 9 guests