Abs. wrote:The point for Sherry saying that she doesn't know Kir would be to establish that the whole Kir thing happened after Sherry escaped. If a lab scientist has heard about some random snipers, she would definitely have heard about the member who was undercover as a popular television announcer.
Abs. wrote:I am talking about Kir "killing" her father.
It was four years ago when Ethan Hondou sacrificed his life to protect his daughter Hondou Hidemi's cover after she made a mistake. (595p10) Kir rose to codename after that, although it may have taken some time and she may still be fairly new because she is still being subjected to protocol checks by Gin four years later at the Domon assassination. I think Shiho doesn't know about Kir because Kir is still fairly new and it takes time for info about new members in "far" departments to reach the internal science division. Chianti and Korn are obviously not new because they are given relative autonomy compared to Kir. It's more likely she would have heard of them them, even more so if Akemi as part of robbery prep had to work with the operations division.
Abs. wrote:Re: BO
Kir's not an executive member.
Executive members seemingly are just Gin and Vermouth, who never really know what each other is doing. The BO does not have "meetings," otherwise Gin for one would kill everyone for wasting his time in them. Kir got a codename because she "killed a traitor under extraordinary circumstances," and that was only recently (see above).
Bourbon might be a trusted family member of an existing member (e.g. the Boss' son/daughter) thus explaining both "new member" and "wtf he/she has a codename already!?" Or might be nonexistent (also explaining both points but making it obvious it's a lie)
Pisco is probably also an executive member based on the way he talked to Gin right before he was killed. Before someone points out that it would be one executive member ordering another around, Gin has ordered Vermouth around for missions, so it's not unexpected.
sstimson wrote:@ Chek
In your chart I would made two suggestions.
First Vermount is closer to the boss then you have her. She has more then once delievered a message from to boss to Gin about a go ahead. It seems to me that since Vermount is more in contact with the boss then Gin. that maybe they are closer in rank.
Second Namabuchi should have a line before him, as I believe he does not have a code name and may just take orders from the other three.
Those divisions are from the official Conan Drill guide. I can't move Vermouth because that's where she was officially listed. The only thing I did was add ranks by the names and operatives that appeared after the guide was introduced in their most likely positions.
sstimson wrote:Next your statement
You got several facts wrong here. First Kir only claimed to have clonked Camel over the head. Second the Black Org never saw Camel's face (I discussed this somewhere else once before and included pictures), hence they don't know that he came back because they didn't know it was him in the exploding van to begin with.
If she had clonked him over the head, he could not have gotten out of the van in time to avoid being killed by the bomb that went off 10 to 20 seconds later.
It's generally a good idea to always check your sources first.
sstimson wrote:Also Gin in 425 to Vermouth statement 'I have sources everywhere", should include the FBI.
Prove it. Until you have concrete proof this is nothing but insubstantial fluff and can't be used to support a theory. There is a lot of evidence Gin doesn't have an FBI informant. Gin would have known about the fake death plan and Conan because Conan and Akai explained it to the rest of the FBI afterward. Also Gin wouldn't have needed to figure out which room was Kir's in the hospital, that she was in a hospital in the first place, and which van she was in if Gin had an informant. Gin has demonstrated zero knowledge of FBI affairs beyond what he can guess from observation and experience.
sstimson wrote:The point becomes not if the BO saw camel's face, but if they could learn who was driving Kir. I believe Gin could have easily learned that detail. The way Gin is about things and I sure he investigated Kir's return very thoroughly,he must know the truth which is that the driver was not killed and Kir is lying about killing him (by blowing him up)
He never saw Camel's face because the windows were tinted and Camel's face was never turned toward the BO while the door was open. Gin doesn't have an informant. He doesn't know.
sstimson wrote:Now with the fact Kir lied about killing Akai (after all his "ghost" showed up twice). Even if if is not him but his double it still cast doubt on her statements.
If scar Akai is fake, obviously that doesn't mean Kir lied about killing Akai. This is especially the case if scar Akai is Bourbon in disguise, meaning there is a perfectly legit reason (even if Gin thinks its Bourbon's stupid obsession) for a fake Akai to be wandering around and Kir can be telling the honest truth.
sstimson wrote:And Gin learning the truth about Kir's return. He must know why she is there (she is a spy).
He would have killed her if he knew for sure.
sstimson wrote:So again concerning the way the BO works, why do they allow this distrustworthy member to exist unless it is to carry misinformation back to the people she spies for.
Because they still think Kir may be telling the truth and that she can still be useful.
sstimson wrote:Also in 425 I noticed that the feed for Kir's camera is not live, and that might help your Akai theory if they had time to change it. Again, the way BO works, someone unseen should have been watching the event LIVE.
It's obviously live. Remember Gin gave orders to Kir in the middle of it, and then she responded to them? You can't do that if it's not live, and you can't predict when and what orders Gin will give and film it in advance.
Also in general, the amnesia theory is contrived. Haibara doesn't behave like she has amnesia; she never acts like there is something she ought to remember, she never remembers something later and realizes she forgot it. If really had traumatic memory loss why did she not forget the the most traumatic things like her sister's death, or Gin and whatever he did to her, or Vermouth? The simplest explanation is that she didn't know Kir.
Twist theories to suit fact, not facts to suit theories. Unless there is evidence to the contrary, generally assume things are the way they are said they are. I always stick by those two principles when building a theory, and it's a very successful strategy based on past arcs and case solving.
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