Bourbon and Sherry in Mystery Train Arc

Forum reserved for discussing specific points of the story—mostly from the manga. Be warned, these discussions will be current with the manga and will spoil many plot lines for anime-centric fans.
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DC2021

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Bourbon and Sherry in Mystery Train Arc

Post by DC2021 »

So, again.. in case you missed or forgot, Gosho released the SDB JUSTICE PLUS last month.. And the most surprising thing included, was the answer to question number 4, shown below:

((Q4: On the Mystery Train, he (Amuro) said to Miyano Shiho that “My comrades who are tracking us have made arrangements in order to retrieve you”, but were those comrades from PSB? If that’s the case, I’m curious about how he planned to deceive Vermouth…! A: Those were comrades from the Black Organization, so there was no need to deceive them)).

My initial reaction upon reading Aoyama's answer was: "OMG!!! ARE YOU KIDDING ME??!!!" or maybe.. "BLOODY HELL.. WHAT WAS THAT??!!"..WOW.. It's a really big shock, isn't it??

So, at this moment, I really want to thank Gosho for telling us this sadly shocking truth which contributed to change my whole mind on Amuro's character !!

Now, after this brief introduction, let's go ahead into another serious issue that has to be addressed well by Gosho, which is of course.. "Sherry Bourbon.. Face to Face" case that's yet to come. I’m curious to see how Rei and Haibara will react once they eventually meet each other. Moreover, I’m looking forward to the developments that will entail upon this event. But first, Rei has to see Shiho first (who is now little kid), then discover her true identity (and maybe Conan too) 🤔🤔🤔

However, until now we know that Rei was planning on handing Shiho back to the BO in the Bell Tree Train arc. But thankfully, that didn’t happen thanks to Conan’s big brain, Kaito Kid who disguised as Sherry, and Akai Shuuichi intervention, which made Rei believe that Shiho died in the luggage cart. Now, he is yet to meet Haibara and discover the truth about her, but when he does, this is how I imagine things will go down:

1- He’ll despise her as a traitor, and because he’ll think of her as a criminal who worked for the BO and developed a deadly drug. However, he won’t be able to hand her back to the BO since he was the one who confirmed her death. Handing her back would only have the BO questioned his credibility and loyalty. Therefore, he’s left with one option; taking her into PSB custody for interrogation. In addition, I don't think Rei will simply believe her if she said “she was forced to work on that drug, and it's not her intention to make a poison in the first place”. So, how can this be prevented ??

A- Conan, Akai Shuuichi, Professor Agasa and even Kudo family can't just stand aside and simply watch, they have to intervene in a way or another to make Rei back off, since they know the real truth about Haibara, while Rei doesn't.. Plus, Conan and Akai promised to protect her, specifically Akai who promised Akemi to do that, and since he knows the real identity of Amuro as "Furuya Rei", he can simply threat him to expose it if he approaches even one inch towards her 😉😉.

B- I feel the tapes Elena recorded to her daughter were more than just the drug’s true purpose. She may have also recorded what the organization forced her and Atsushi to go through. And with the fact that Vermouth seemed to blame Haibara on her parents' research, it is quite possibly Elena mentioned Vermouth on the tapes. If Haibara brings up those tapes and Rei heard them, first of all he’ll get closure (because he loved Elena as his own mother) and finding out about Vermouth’s link to the Miyanos, he can investigate them more. I don’t think it’ll be difficult for him to uncover the truth about her family especially since he knows Vermouth’s secret and that couldn’t have been easy.

C- And for the last point, just like how the Kudo family struck a deal with Rei to work with Akai (I suppose that), they’ll probably do the same thing to protect Haibara, and with time, Rei will learn the truth about her past, and instead of harming or jailing her, he'll protect her.

2- As a second point, considering Bell Tree Train Arc events, not only Rei will despise Haibara, but also, she will despise him especially after discovering that he's in reality a PSB agent, and she will hate him even more after learning his relationship with her mother as he met her in childhood, and loved her as his own mother, and above that, he was willing to use her as a pawn, bringing her back to BO, or worst killing her 🙄🙄.. She has the right to be mad at him, and not trusting him at all (Don't forget Akemi's experience with Akai when he was a NOC, since he was using her too before falling in love with her) 😔😔😔

Wow, it will be a dramatic scenario if it happens, I have no doubt about it.. I can't wait this drama to happen in DC manga 🥶🥶🥶.. And above all that, I strongly believe that Elena mentioned Rei in her recorded tapes, so, I won't be surprised if Shiho hears the name of child "Rei" from her mum's voice.. Following that, Haibara will learn that Amuro is the same child in her mother's tapes 😐😐.. (OMG, it's highly emotional 🤧🤧).

3- The third point, and it's serious, is the confession of Aoyama in "Let's Talk A Day" in 2019, saying that Amuro and Haibara will get along well 😳😳.. OK.. Maybe you will ask me and yourself one thing.. HOW??? .. and more clearly, HOW WOULD HAIBARA LIKE THE ONE WHO WAS WILLING TO BRING HER BACK TO BO, OR MAYBE KILLING HER??!!... It's right, isn't it ??? And again, the answer or the secret of this is behind the "TAPES".. it will be a reason for both to be getting closer, warming up to each other, and then Rei will tell Haibara about her deceased family whom they met when he was child. He will tell her about the kindness of her mum with him when she treated his scars and bruises everytime he involved into fighting with other kids, and how he loved her, and most importantly he will tell her the real reason behind her family joining Carasuma Group 🥺🥺💔💔. There are alot of reasons for both to be getting along well, but I can't write them here now.. They need another post 😅😅

So basically in the end, I’d like to think that once Rei learns the truth about her and her family’s past, he’ll be relieved to have received closure (because he loved Elena so much) and subsequently decides to protect Haibara. Hopefully, he will regret someday for his action with Haibara.. And I can’t wait for him to realise that he was an absolute idiot for willing to sell her out. Hopefully the guilt will hit him like a freaking truck when he knows the truth about everything she and her family went through, and how Haibara's changes and goodness right now 😤😤

Finally, talking about Amuro's actions, the only thing that comes to mind to justify his attitudes (not that I agree with it) is he has lost his soul after losing all of his friends, maybe his real family, and people he thought of as family (or Elena). He technically has nothing to fight for apart from Japan’s security.

A parallel situation would be Akai and Akemi. He also used her in the beginning; because he was so desperate to find the truth about his father’s death and infiltrate the BO. It was not until Akai fell in love with Akemi that he changed his ways and kept his promise to look out for Haibara.

So I’m just guessing if Rei ever finds that special someone (as cliché as it sounds), he too might change his approach and stop being a self-serving anti-hero.

So, this is only a theory.. maybe right or maybe wrong, so, I have put my effort to explain the situation as I can..and finally, thank you for all your opinions or suggestions 🙂🙂
Reader

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Re: Bourbon and Sherry in Mystery Train Arc

Post by Reader »

nicely put. i agree with most of what you said.
though there lies the possibility that amuro might never learn the truth about her. infact, we could somehow reach the climax without amuro realizing conan's and hence haibara's real identity. as for amuro-haibara interaction, nothing big shall come out of it right now, i feel, because despite being so close to Conan he has not made the leap of logic concerning shrinking of an adult. so at the most he will consider haibara as an adult like kid. but if Gosho does give them multiple encounters over the course of many files, amuro might learn the truth. and if that happens, it will interesting to see the emotional tension between them, like you mentioned.
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Shinan-Kudogawa

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Re: Bourbon and Sherry in Mystery Train Arc

Post by Shinan-Kudogawa »

I agree, that for the most logical scenraio is the one you offered, moreover I think it will lead to even bigger changes since DC needs it now or later. In my mind, a possible outcome, is that Shiho might end up falling in love with Rei and vice versa, he does consider her mother as his own, perhaps his goal to infiltrate the BO is to find out about what happened to the Miyanos and take revenge, which might lead to a halt in his efforts to bring them down, to rescue the only Miyano member, Shiho. And perhaps like Gosho said, them getting along, would lead to love once the tension and the mystery between them is gone. And honestly other than Shinichi, I don't see anyone worthy of Shiho's love except for the man who would be the key to saving her. In a manner of speaking, Shinichi would end up with Ran, Rei would at least start talking regulary to Shiho as if love interests, and Shuuichi would imply moving on and going back to talk to Jodie by the end of DC.
DC2021

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Re: Bourbon and Sherry in Mystery Train Arc

Post by DC2021 »

For your possibility that Amuro and Shiho being together, I think Gosho few months ago, hinted on "Amu-Azu" coupling in Animal Crossing game, so, there is no hope for Amuro and Haibara to end up as couple.. Plus, it would be weird since in this case Amuro would be seemed as a lolicon (they are several years apart).. and I don't think that Gosho is the type of authors who ship two persons with a bit large age gap.. I guess they at least would be close friends at some point.

Now, for your point on the reason of Rei to infiltrate the BO, I don't know what it's exactly other than protecting Japan.. But in general, the real reason for him to join Police Academy (not BO) was to search and find Miyano Elena, the woman who was in his memory, and the one whom he once loved as his own mother (this was mentioned in Police Academy Manga). But what if he loves Japan more than Elena?? (It’s not canon, but he did say in Zero the Enforcer that the safety of this country matters most to him, even if it means he’d end up paying with his own life). So, I’m going to take a wild guess as to how he could have felt when he found out the woman he loved as his own mother, willingly joined the deadly organisation that threatened the safety of his country. Based on his memories, he remembered her encouraging her husband to join the Carasuma group... So, if through his investigations, he was able to realise she is the same woman from his childhood, I’m pretty sure he would have been very disappointed. I’m not sure the extent of his knowledge about the drug, but if he also found out their research created the poisonous APTX-4869, I reckon it would be more reason for him to be upset.. So, the real reason for him to infiltrate BO was not getting revenge for Elena as I think 🤔🤔.. For that, he would think of Miyano family and Shiho as a criminals just like other members, since he hadn't have any problem to hand Shiho back to BO in Train Arc 😔, and I don't blame him that much, since he doesn't know the whole truth about Miyano family, Haibara, and what bully they were facing from the organization..
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Shinan-Kudogawa

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Re: Bourbon and Sherry in Mystery Train Arc

Post by Shinan-Kudogawa »

DC2021 wrote:
May 27th, 2021, 8:34 am
For your possibility that Amuro and Shiho being together, I think Gosho few months ago, hinted on "Amu-Azu" coupling in Animal Crossing game, so, there is no hope for Amuro and Haibara to end up as couple.. Plus, it would be weird since in this case Amuro would be seemed as a lolicon (they are several years apart).. and I don't that Gosho is the type of authors who ship two persons with a bit large age gap.. I guess they at least would be close friends at some point.

Now, for your point on the reason of Rei to infiltrate the BO, I don't know what it's exactly other than protecting Japan.. But in general, the real reason for him to join Police Academy (not BO) was to search and find Miyano Elena, the woman who was in his memory, and the one whom he once loved as his own mother (this was mentioned in Police Academy Manga). But what if he loves Japan more than Elena?? (It’s not canon, but he did say in Zero the Enforcer that the safety of this country matters most to him, even if it means he’d end up paying with his own life). So, I’m going to take a wild guess as to how he could have felt when he found out the woman he loved as his own mother, willingly joined the deadly organisation that threatened the safety of his country. Based on his memories, he remembered her encouraging her husband to join the Carasuma group... So, if through his investigations, he was able to realise she is the same woman from his childhood, I’m pretty sure he would have been very disappointed. I’m not sure the extent of his knowledge about the drug, but if he also found out their research created the poisonous APTX-4869, I reckon it would be more reason for him to be upset.. So, the real reason for him to infiltrate BO was not getting revenge for Elena as I think 🤔🤔.. For that, he would think of Miyano family and Shiho as a criminals just like other members, since he hadn't have any problem to hand Shiho back to BO in Train Arc 😔, and I don't blame him that much, since he doesn't know the whole truth about Miyano family, Haibara, and what bully they were facing from the organization..
Didn't know about the Animal Crossing hint, yet I wouldn't eliminate the possibilty, even with the age gap, Rei is supposdely 28/29, 10 years older than Shiho, I am not sure whether Gosho would go for such a relationship or not, but it wouldn't be surprising. Not that I am saying that they will end up together, but a possibilty certainly exists, that Gosho might break the norm and go for a newly discovered relationship.

Edited: I conclude that he did craft the goal of protecting his country along the way, while in his original reasoning on joining the police was to find Elena. I do in fact think that Rei has more to him than meets the eyes, he is crafty who was originally a villain than a heroic figure, but Gosho changed his allegiance due to popularity. My curiousity, however, lies at seeing how Rei would react once he discovers that his beloved Elena is aunt of Shuu :|
Last edited by Shinan-Kudogawa on May 30th, 2021, 3:10 am, edited 1 time in total.
DC2021

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Re: Bourbon and Sherry in Mystery Train Arc

Post by DC2021 »

Shinan-Kudogawa wrote:
May 27th, 2021, 8:45 am
DC2021 wrote:
May 27th, 2021, 8:34 am
Indeed, Rei joined the police most likely due to Elena, however, I presume it is due to his high intelligence, that the PSB scouted him. During his time with them, he may have knew about the Miyanos relationship with BO, and most likely he believed in Elena's good nature and caring personality, he wanted somehow to prove her innocence and that she is not a BO, rather a forced labor hand. Rei would know about the white dove company that went bankrupt, and the BO had something to do with it, and hence started to investigate the BO, for both ends, to protect his beloved Japan, and to prove the innocence while investigating the mystery of Elena Miyani within the BO.
I think the opposite way to you..when Rei infiltrated the BO, I supposed that he was shocked and disappointed when he discovered that Miyano family were members of the organization who threaten the safety of his country and the whole world, I could have felt that he was very sad and confused upon discovering this true, but not the whole truth.. so he would think of Shiho as a criminal as well. In addition, I don't think that he know anything about dove company which went bankrupt, if we consider that his mission was only to take down the organization, not to improve the innocence of previous deceased members or take revenge.. since we understand now that Japan is the eternal love for Rei, and its safety matters him the most. But maybe after several encounters with Shiho (who is Haibara now), he probably will know the whole truth on Miyano family, their relation with dove company and how this company went bankrupt by Carasuma group, after putting his hands on Elena's tapes.. so, the tapes included all the answers to this mystery.. after that, he will know that Miyano family were obligated to work on that foolish research which created Apotoxin.
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Shinan-Kudogawa

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Re: Bourbon and Sherry in Mystery Train Arc

Post by Shinan-Kudogawa »

DC2021 wrote:
May 29th, 2021, 6:31 am
Shinan-Kudogawa wrote:
May 27th, 2021, 8:45 am
DC2021 wrote:
May 27th, 2021, 8:34 am
Indeed, Rei joined the police most likely due to Elena, however, I presume it is due to his high intelligence, that the PSB scouted him. During his time with them, he may have knew about the Miyanos relationship with BO, and most likely he believed in Elena's good nature and caring personality, he wanted somehow to prove her innocence and that she is not a BO, rather a forced labor hand. Rei would know about the white dove company that went bankrupt, and the BO had something to do with it, and hence started to investigate the BO, for both ends, to protect his beloved Japan, and to prove the innocence while investigating the mystery of Elena Miyani within the BO.
I think the opposite way to you..when Rei infiltrated the BO, I supposed that he was shocked and disappointed when he discovered that Miyano family were members of the organization who threaten the safety of his country and the whole world, I could have felt that he was very sad and confused upon discovering this true, but not the whole truth.. so he would think of Shiho as a criminal as well. In addition, I don't think that he know anything about dove company which went bankrupt, if we consider that his mission was only to take down the organization, not to improve the innocence of previous deceased members or take revenge.. since we understand now that Japan is the eternal love for Rei, and its safety matters him the most. But maybe after several encounters with Shiho (who is Haibara now), he probably will know the whole truth on Miyano family, their relation with dove company and how this company went bankrupt by Carasuma group, after putting his hands on Elena's tapes.. so, the tapes included all the answers to this mystery.. after that, he will know that Miyano family were obligated to work on that foolish research which created Apotoxin.
You caught me on that, XD. I see I did contradict myself, I may have mixed the possible past with the possible future. I take back what I said on the last comment, and would extend my belief in the idea that Rei will know in the future about Shiho's case more thoroughly, regarding the Shriohato company, I will say that Rei at least knows of the name and that Carasuma is behind it's closure, but not fully investigated the case. And on Elena I would say, Rei definitely know about the Miyanos beforehand, but he came to new leads once he was inside the BO regarding the implication of their 'criminal' connections.

So in other words, to sum it up, if you would consider the last comment as a mere mistake on my part, in fact I'm going to edit it.

Rei had an idea about the disappearance of Miyanos, joined the PSB, infiltrated the BO, while knowing beforehand about some missing link between Miyanos and BO, then he came to know that the Miyanos were working on the 'Silver Bullet' drug which might have complicated matters to him. All the while, his first real reason may have to know more about Elena, along the way his greatest goal came to be to protect his beloved country.
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Shinan-Kudogawa

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Re: Bourbon and Sherry in Mystery Train Arc

Post by Shinan-Kudogawa »

DC2021 wrote:
May 29th, 2021, 6:31 am
Shinan-Kudogawa wrote:
May 27th, 2021, 8:45 am
DC2021 wrote:
May 27th, 2021, 8:34 am
Indeed, Rei joined the police most likely due to Elena, however, I presume it is due to his high intelligence, that the PSB scouted him. During his time with them, he may have knew about the Miyanos relationship with BO, and most likely he believed in Elena's good nature and caring personality, he wanted somehow to prove her innocence and that she is not a BO, rather a forced labor hand. Rei would know about the white dove company that went bankrupt, and the BO had something to do with it, and hence started to investigate the BO, for both ends, to protect his beloved Japan, and to prove the innocence while investigating the mystery of Elena Miyani within the BO.
I think the opposite way to you..when Rei infiltrated the BO, I supposed that he was shocked and disappointed when he discovered that Miyano family were members of the organization who threaten the safety of his country and the whole world, I could have felt that he was very sad and confused upon discovering this true, but not the whole truth.. so he would think of Shiho as a criminal as well. In addition, I don't think that he know anything about dove company which went bankrupt, if we consider that his mission was only to take down the organization, not to improve the innocence of previous deceased members or take revenge.. since we understand now that Japan is the eternal love for Rei, and its safety matters him the most. But maybe after several encounters with Shiho (who is Haibara now), he probably will know the whole truth on Miyano family, their relation with dove company and how this company went bankrupt by Carasuma group, after putting his hands on Elena's tapes.. so, the tapes included all the answers to this mystery.. after that, he will know that Miyano family were obligated to work on that foolish research which created Apotoxin.
You caught me on that, XD. I see I did contradict myself, I may have mixed the possible past with the possible future. I take back what I said on the last comment, and would extend my belief in the idea that Rei will know in the future about Shiho's case more thoroughly, regarding the Shriohato company, I will say that Rei at least knows of the name and that Carasuma is behind it's closure, but not fully investigated the case. And on Elena I would say, Rei definitely know about the Miyanos beforehand, but he came to new leads once he was inside the BO regarding the implication of their 'criminal' connections.

So in other words, to sum it up, if you would consider the last comment as a mere mistake on my part, in fact I'm going to edit it.

Rei had an idea about the disappearance of Miyanos, joined the PSB, infiltrated the BO, while knowing beforehand about some missing link between Miyanos and BO, then he came to know that the Miyanos were working on the 'Silver Bullet' drug which might have complicated matters to him. All the while, his first real reason may have to know more about Elena, along the way his greatest goal came to be to protect his beloved country.

Edit: Apologies for the double post, my internet is messed up atm.
HMJ999999

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Re: Bourbon and Sherry in Mystery Train Arc

Post by HMJ999999 »

There is one thing I don't understand, how Haibara will get along with Amuro, and she knows very well that he was using her to reach higher ranking in BO, and above all, she doesn't know that he's a PSB member not BO, and even when she knows this truth one day, she will hate him more.. everyone knows well Haibara personality, since she doesn't trust anyone that easy, especially BO members or NOCs ??!!

Secondly, where is the source of interview in which Aoyama talked about Amuro and Haibara that they will get along ?
Reader

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Re: Bourbon and Sherry in Mystery Train Arc

Post by Reader »

Ya, I have a feeling they won't get along well, or atleast Shiho won't. And there's the age gap also, as mentioned above. So at the most, Amuro will be like her older brother, just like Akai is. About that point, the angst between Akai and Amuro would have died down. And Amuro might learn about the truth that Elena and Mary are related. So Mary might consider Amuro has her step-son, and treating Shiho as a step-daughter more than her niece. This is one way, the brother sister relationship can be established. This will give a peaceful, if not happy ending, to the scarred past of Amuro and Shiho.
DC2021

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Re: Bourbon and Sherry in Mystery Train Arc

Post by DC2021 »

((Q35: I like both Amuro-san and Ai-chan. Will Amuro-san and Ai-chan get along?
A: Yes! Ah. But they haven't properly met yet, right? Oh, well... That's a bit of a secret.
Q: You know... In terms of age, it's a bit... Amuro-san would be like a lolicon...
A: Yes. Hey, they're bit too apart in age terms.
Q: But I also would like for them to get along.
A: I see. Hey, I don't know however. Well, they're years apart, I can't tell."
Chairperson: You can get the gist looking at his expression))

The above is the part of interview you asked about, and as you see, Gosho replied with a "Yes" to a fan asked if both characters will get along well.. but that doesn't mean they would be together romantically.. they might be friends or like brother-sister relationship but nothing more !!

And here is the source of the interview translated:
https://forums.dctp.ws/viewtopic.php?t=13536
Akai_Shu

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Re: Bourbon and Sherry in Mystery Train Arc

Post by Akai_Shu »

1. Bourbon tends to put his missions above everything. He doesn't mind sacrifying others if that will help him raise his rank in the BO. But considering that Sherry is related to the Miyanos he might had a back up plan to save her. Not sure though!
2. Even.if Bourbon get to know about Haibara's true identity, which he will btw ( if it wouldn't take him long to see that the ressemblance between Shiho and Haibara is so intense. Just like Akai.), he can't do anything. Haibara is well protected by the Kudos and specially by Akai. So they won't allow it. Plus Bourbon will probably joins Conan's team after the tea party. Moreover, Rum suspects him to be a traitor. And it is a matter of time to be exposed.
3. Rei is a true patriot and he probably wants the PSB to be the one who destroys the BO and not an another foreigh intellingence service.
4. The reason why Furuya joined the police academy was confirmed in the spin-off Wild police academy which is indeed searching for the missing Miyanos.
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