Well, then again why would RUM or anyone else even want to get their hands on Kohji's favorite shogi piece?! It's not like they are taking it as a trophy because they managed to murder their potential shogi rival [coughs]. And why would Rumi take away the shogi piece anyways? Like if she were to throw away a 4-leaf clover that was given to her as a good-luck charm, then surely she would not want to keep a souvenir that constantly reminds her of a "foolish-person" who got himself killed?! Doesn't make sense at all! Yet Kanenori seems to care quite a bit about a missing shogi piece and even asked Conan about it, while Rumi seemed to clentch onto the shogi piece quite tightly even if it risked her being under suspicion by Amuro/Bourbon, so why is that? Why is the shogi piece important in the first place?DCUniverseAficionado wrote: ↑February 7th, 2021, 10:37 pm
But if post-coma Hyōe is Asaka, he would've been in the thick of it to begin with—no need for him to conveniently come upon the scene of the crime. Which of course, brings us to whether Asaka was BO-allied or not—if he was, then what, specifically, made him and Rum/Kanenori flee? If not, then how did he survive Rum's/Kanenori's attack?
If Rumi has the piece, then something happened that caused both Rum/Kanenori and Hyōe, and Rum/Kanenori especially, to fail to get their hands on it—a reason they didn't pry his clenched hand open. For me to make a more educated supposition about that reason, I'd need more info—such as whether or not Asaka was BO-allied.
Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)
- blackmoon
Posts: 266
Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)
"one should stick with one's original plan" (初志貫徹 shoshi kantetsu)
Spoiler:
- Angra Shadow
- You might remember me as Uchiha Shadow, seems like that account is lost forever now because I can't recover the email for it.
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Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)
Maybe it has RUM's fingerprints on it?blackmoon wrote: ↑February 10th, 2021, 6:51 am
Well, then again why would RUM or anyone else even want to get their hands on Kohji's favorite shogi piece?! It's not like they are taking it as a trophy because they managed to murder their potential shogi rival [coughs]. And why would Rumi take away the shogi piece anyways? Like if she were to throw away a 4-leaf clover that was given to her as a good-luck charm, then surely she would not want to keep a souvenir that constantly reminds her of a "foolish-person" who got himself killed?! Doesn't make sense at all! Yet Kanenori seems to care quite a bit about a missing shogi piece and even asked Conan about it, while Rumi seemed to clentch onto the shogi piece quite tightly even if it risked her being under suspicion by Amuro/Bourbon, so why is that? Why is the shogi piece important in the first place?
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Posts: 7
Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)
And I think that RUM is indeed a politician personality, that's why he's hiding himself with fake physical description.Angra Shadow wrote: ↑February 10th, 2021, 7:06 amMaybe it has RUM's fingerprints on it?blackmoon wrote: ↑February 10th, 2021, 6:51 am
Well, then again why would RUM or anyone else even want to get their hands on Kohji's favorite shogi piece?! It's not like they are taking it as a trophy because they managed to murder their potential shogi rival [coughs]. And why would Rumi take away the shogi piece anyways? Like if she were to throw away a 4-leaf clover that was given to her as a good-luck charm, then surely she would not want to keep a souvenir that constantly reminds her of a "foolish-person" who got himself killed?! Doesn't make sense at all! Yet Kanenori seems to care quite a bit about a missing shogi piece and even asked Conan about it, while Rumi seemed to clentch onto the shogi piece quite tightly even if it risked her being under suspicion by Amuro/Bourbon, so why is that? Why is the shogi piece important in the first place?
In any organisation, you need political links to make your plans work.
Him being impatient with the formula "time is money"means he's close to his money...
And also, he's willing to take back this shogi piece because of fingerptints as you just mentionned
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Posts: 69
Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)
Why everyone is guessing that Kuroda could be Tsutomu?
Honestly I don´t see any resemblance, facial features and hair are completely different, nor the eyes, not even the skin color:
The only character thas has appeared in DC that looks heavily like Kuroda for me it´s Atsushi Miyano:
I know that the theory of Elena Miyano and Atsushi being alive is so unpopular in the fandom but honestly I don´t understand why it is.
For me Hyoue Kuroda is a strong candidate to be Atsushi Miyano, the resemblance is big and also the fact that Kuroda suffered an accident. The only face feature that differs are the eyebrows, which obviously could have been affected by the trauma of the accident. The face structure and the beard is really similar and they both wear glasses, the skin color is also pretty notable. Another point is the relationship with Rei, we know that Rei knew Atsushi when he was little and from the narrative point of view it would make much more sense this relation. For me Bourbon collaborating with Tsutomu Akai seems so vague.
The first encounter with Haibara: Ai looks scared when she sees Kuroda for the first time, but after that she confesses Conan that he just looked a bit scary (this reminds me of some japanese animes of father that is disappeared for a long time and then the son/daughter sees him as a scary person at first sight. Haibara also considers Rumi Wakasa to be a good person, why so? Well because Rumi is a perfect candidate to be Elena Miyano.
The resemblance Rumi-Elena is also really notable, Yamamura also mentions ¨hell angel¨during 1033 case to Rumi. But for me the strongest point was in the Hatoyama Farm case , how Bourbon somehow recognized someone familiar in Rumi, and she also did. Rumi is an intelligent person that also has the APTX list for some reason.Also she has some scars that evidence some accident or a torture.
On the hand I really think that something happened in the case from 17 years ago that involved Elena and Atsushi. Their ¨disappearance¨happened really in the same year, when Haibara was just a baby. Elena is the sister of Mary and this shoulnd´t be something just to say oh no Akai dated his cousin! I think at some point they collaborated on trying to destroy the organization and in that plan Kohji Haneda, which was friend of the Akai family, was part of it.
My bet is that MI6 somehow discovered that Amanda was about to meet someone really important inside BO. I think Amanda was fundraising Karasuma Group because she was looking for something close to the eternal youth, but she also knew so much about it, so Rum´s plan was to have a reunion with her and offering her the silver bullet drug that the Miyanos have developed to eliminate her. Of course, Amanda previously chatted with Kohji and probably she talked too much about The Karasuma Group, hinting that she was about to meet with casually, one of the shogi players in the competition: Chikara Katsumata - Chikatta Karasuma, Rum.
I think Elena perfectly knew that the drug that she developed with Atsushi was deadly, and after having a conversation with Kohji they must have developed some plan. Elena probably just wanted to avoid at all cost Amada to die with her own drug but she was too late. I really think that Elena took Asaka´s place , but now in the way we think. I really think that Asaka was Mary but the one that was heavily involved in the case was Elena. I think Elena saw Rum and understood that Amanda died from the drug (with no violence because she took it herself in front of Rum). Elena probably saw Rum and then what happened is not so clear for me, but I think Rumi/Elena says that Kohji is an idiot because he challenged so foolishly the BO, just as Haibara acts with Conan when he things on challenging BO. Elena/Rumi feels heavily guilty that Kohji died from he own drug. My theory though is that was Wakita/Whiskey who went to kill Kohji, but Kohji knew that Chikara was a Karasuma and that he was in that shogi tournament to kill Amanda.
For me this is a strong theory in the sense that the Miyanos have been mentioned a few times during the arc, even showing the case of Bourbon´s flashback. Why is so important to link Bourbon to the Miyanos? Why is important for the story? For me it would make perfect sense that they are alive, and moreover give to Haibara a proper happy ending. On the other hand, they are the only ones that can develop the definitive antidote to the APTX effect, Haibara has really tried but only temporal solutions and at this point I think we should expect a miracle, the series are not going to end saying..and then Haibara developed 2 years after an antidote...for me it would make more sense if the Miyanos, alive, created an antidote for Conan in the final battle against BO, and then surprise Haibara.
Some people may think it´s a bit crazy but if you think on it it doesn´t seem that crazy, it´s a good way to run towards a really epic end of DC, for me Atsushi and Elena are just so important characters to leave them dead on an ¨accident¨, fake accidents have been so common through the series and we know that there are a lot of traitors in BO that could have just have saved the Miyanos, maybe somehow Tsutomu Akai was involved in all this operation. Maybe the Miyanos were meant to be killed but Tsutomu arrived on time to save them, probably Atsushi was worst injuried in the accident and that´s why the coma. Thinking in how cold Mary and Ttutomu behave, most probably they told Elena that Atsushi died.
For me is not really clear what has Elena done through all this years, but for sure seeking an extreme revenge towards BO. I wouldn´t be surprised that Mary told her that Akemi and Haibara were murdered, because then Elena would have fought till she could recover her children. Left without any hope most probably she felt on depression and became protected by MI6. However, she must have been reactivated when Akemi Miyano or that bank robber isis found death and discovers that actually that person was her daughter. Moreover, by what happened in London, discovers this little boy called Conan and wants to get closer to him.
For Atushsi is more unclear, most probably he spent those years in comma and then he bacame superintendent thanks to some contacts related to the Akais, which is clear is that he probably recognized something familiar on Rumi, my bet is that he just thought that Rumi is Mary, and Mary was meant to be Asaka in the original mission of 17 years ago.
It just surprises me how many people believe that Tsutomu Akai is alive and not the Miyanos, yes, Gosho once said that the Miyanos are death but we can´t trust Gosho´s word, not after this Rum arc. Do you seriously think that Gosho would reply to that with a ¨Look forward do it¨. Manga series are meant to surprise xD
Honestly I don´t see any resemblance, facial features and hair are completely different, nor the eyes, not even the skin color:
The only character thas has appeared in DC that looks heavily like Kuroda for me it´s Atsushi Miyano:
I know that the theory of Elena Miyano and Atsushi being alive is so unpopular in the fandom but honestly I don´t understand why it is.
For me Hyoue Kuroda is a strong candidate to be Atsushi Miyano, the resemblance is big and also the fact that Kuroda suffered an accident. The only face feature that differs are the eyebrows, which obviously could have been affected by the trauma of the accident. The face structure and the beard is really similar and they both wear glasses, the skin color is also pretty notable. Another point is the relationship with Rei, we know that Rei knew Atsushi when he was little and from the narrative point of view it would make much more sense this relation. For me Bourbon collaborating with Tsutomu Akai seems so vague.
The first encounter with Haibara: Ai looks scared when she sees Kuroda for the first time, but after that she confesses Conan that he just looked a bit scary (this reminds me of some japanese animes of father that is disappeared for a long time and then the son/daughter sees him as a scary person at first sight. Haibara also considers Rumi Wakasa to be a good person, why so? Well because Rumi is a perfect candidate to be Elena Miyano.
The resemblance Rumi-Elena is also really notable, Yamamura also mentions ¨hell angel¨during 1033 case to Rumi. But for me the strongest point was in the Hatoyama Farm case , how Bourbon somehow recognized someone familiar in Rumi, and she also did. Rumi is an intelligent person that also has the APTX list for some reason.Also she has some scars that evidence some accident or a torture.
On the hand I really think that something happened in the case from 17 years ago that involved Elena and Atsushi. Their ¨disappearance¨happened really in the same year, when Haibara was just a baby. Elena is the sister of Mary and this shoulnd´t be something just to say oh no Akai dated his cousin! I think at some point they collaborated on trying to destroy the organization and in that plan Kohji Haneda, which was friend of the Akai family, was part of it.
My bet is that MI6 somehow discovered that Amanda was about to meet someone really important inside BO. I think Amanda was fundraising Karasuma Group because she was looking for something close to the eternal youth, but she also knew so much about it, so Rum´s plan was to have a reunion with her and offering her the silver bullet drug that the Miyanos have developed to eliminate her. Of course, Amanda previously chatted with Kohji and probably she talked too much about The Karasuma Group, hinting that she was about to meet with casually, one of the shogi players in the competition: Chikara Katsumata - Chikatta Karasuma, Rum.
I think Elena perfectly knew that the drug that she developed with Atsushi was deadly, and after having a conversation with Kohji they must have developed some plan. Elena probably just wanted to avoid at all cost Amada to die with her own drug but she was too late. I really think that Elena took Asaka´s place , but now in the way we think. I really think that Asaka was Mary but the one that was heavily involved in the case was Elena. I think Elena saw Rum and understood that Amanda died from the drug (with no violence because she took it herself in front of Rum). Elena probably saw Rum and then what happened is not so clear for me, but I think Rumi/Elena says that Kohji is an idiot because he challenged so foolishly the BO, just as Haibara acts with Conan when he things on challenging BO. Elena/Rumi feels heavily guilty that Kohji died from he own drug. My theory though is that was Wakita/Whiskey who went to kill Kohji, but Kohji knew that Chikara was a Karasuma and that he was in that shogi tournament to kill Amanda.
For me this is a strong theory in the sense that the Miyanos have been mentioned a few times during the arc, even showing the case of Bourbon´s flashback. Why is so important to link Bourbon to the Miyanos? Why is important for the story? For me it would make perfect sense that they are alive, and moreover give to Haibara a proper happy ending. On the other hand, they are the only ones that can develop the definitive antidote to the APTX effect, Haibara has really tried but only temporal solutions and at this point I think we should expect a miracle, the series are not going to end saying..and then Haibara developed 2 years after an antidote...for me it would make more sense if the Miyanos, alive, created an antidote for Conan in the final battle against BO, and then surprise Haibara.
Some people may think it´s a bit crazy but if you think on it it doesn´t seem that crazy, it´s a good way to run towards a really epic end of DC, for me Atsushi and Elena are just so important characters to leave them dead on an ¨accident¨, fake accidents have been so common through the series and we know that there are a lot of traitors in BO that could have just have saved the Miyanos, maybe somehow Tsutomu Akai was involved in all this operation. Maybe the Miyanos were meant to be killed but Tsutomu arrived on time to save them, probably Atsushi was worst injuried in the accident and that´s why the coma. Thinking in how cold Mary and Ttutomu behave, most probably they told Elena that Atsushi died.
For me is not really clear what has Elena done through all this years, but for sure seeking an extreme revenge towards BO. I wouldn´t be surprised that Mary told her that Akemi and Haibara were murdered, because then Elena would have fought till she could recover her children. Left without any hope most probably she felt on depression and became protected by MI6. However, she must have been reactivated when Akemi Miyano or that bank robber isis found death and discovers that actually that person was her daughter. Moreover, by what happened in London, discovers this little boy called Conan and wants to get closer to him.
For Atushsi is more unclear, most probably he spent those years in comma and then he bacame superintendent thanks to some contacts related to the Akais, which is clear is that he probably recognized something familiar on Rumi, my bet is that he just thought that Rumi is Mary, and Mary was meant to be Asaka in the original mission of 17 years ago.
It just surprises me how many people believe that Tsutomu Akai is alive and not the Miyanos, yes, Gosho once said that the Miyanos are death but we can´t trust Gosho´s word, not after this Rum arc. Do you seriously think that Gosho would reply to that with a ¨Look forward do it¨. Manga series are meant to surprise xD
Last edited by Absenta on February 11th, 2021, 4:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
- Angra Shadow
- You might remember me as Uchiha Shadow, seems like that account is lost forever now because I can't recover the email for it.
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Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)
Because it's literally pointed out to us that Kuroda looks like a completely different person post-accident, so it doesn't matter how different he looks to Tsutomu, Gosho has already dropped the Chekhov's gun for that to work. We have a guy whose corpse mysteriously disappeared and a guy whose past is unclear, it's not hard to see why it's one of the more reasonable theories regarding this saga.
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Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)
It´s pretty notable when in the series they portray characters with different skin colors, best example is Shinichi and Heiji, one is pale and the other has dark skin. I mean, for really traumatic that could be an accident you just don´t change your skin color. One thing for sure is that Atushi looked like a nice teddy bear and Kuroda looks fierce, that´s a strong point to say that the look a completely different person.Angra Shadow wrote: ↑February 11th, 2021, 4:42 pmBecause it's literally pointed out to us that Kuroda looks like a completely different person post-accident, so it doesn't matter how different he looks to Tsutomu, Gosho has already dropped the Chekhov's gun for that to work. We have a guy whose corpse mysteriously disappeared and a guy whose past is unclear, it's not hard to see why it's one of the more reasonable theories regarding this saga.
We also have to take into consideration that maybe the real Hyoue Kuroda , of course looked complete different because it´s not the same person as the current Kuroda.
- Angra Shadow
- You might remember me as Uchiha Shadow, seems like that account is lost forever now because I can't recover the email for it.
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Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)
You can make all sorts of logical arguments but don't forget that this is a series where any character can drastically change how they look magically and out of nowhere too, so I wouldn't really use appearance as an argument *especially* when it's been pointed out that the character looks like a completely different person.
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Posts: 127
Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)
It is not about resemblance alone. If that is your basis for deduction, you would never consider the possibility of araide being Vermouth. So if a character is disguising as some one else in this series, the disguise can be vastly different from the character.
Maybe it is because we already have too many fake deaths by now.I know that the theory of Elena Miyano and Atsushi being alive is so unpopular in the fandom but honestly I don´t understand why it is.
Not sure what you mean by that. Many alleged that he was lying to the sdb black Q92, but they all are proved wrong by now. It just strengthened the fact that he is quite frank with his responses and doesn't purposefully misdirect with his answers.It just surprises me how many people believe that Tsutomu Akai is alive and not the Miyanos, yes, Gosho once said that the Miyanos are death but we can´t trust Gosho´s word, not after this Rum arc. Do you seriously think that Gosho would reply to that with a ¨Look forward do it¨. Manga series are meant to surprise xD
Tried looking for that q and a but didn't find it. I remember reading something like Gosho denied it outright that they are dead, in sdb, interview, or a postcard maybe. I don't think Gosho answered that question by 'look forward to it'. It is a dark question after all. Maybe if someone can quote that q and a it will be helpful to debunk this theory.
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Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)
The Rum QA was from Black+ Super Digest Book, which I assume that Gosho at least has some control over the QAs that get published or at least reviews the interview transcript to correct any errors he may have made. It's less likely for any misleading information to be published that way.:
If the answer was no I think Gosho would respond with something like "Oh, Haibara's parent's? Ah, that would be happy, would it not?" or something else vague to at least open up the possibility of theorizing to the readers. Also it's been demonstrated that Gosho makes some stuff up as he goes (like Masumi Sera) and I doubt he would completely shut the door on the Miyanos being alive since it's something that would bring joy to the fans and them being dead is not central to the current plot in any way.
Here's another quote from Black+ Super Digest Book:
The manga's only statement on the matter seems to be that Haibara claimed that she was told by someone else in the Black Organization that Elena Miyano and Atsushi Miyano had died when Pisco "accidentally" set fire to their lab. How would the Black Organization confirm that someone was burnt to ashes in a fire? Perhaps a DNA test but seems out of character for the BO and there are many possibilities to fool a DNA test anyways.
I think that there are way too many moments and currently unanswered questions in the manga that Rumi Wakasa being Elena Miyano would explain (why Bourbon and Wakasa seem to know each other, Rumi having the APTX 4869 list, why Elena Miyano is suddenly becoming such an important plot point via Bourbon, Haibara saying she likes Rumi, why the BO is so determined to find Asaka, etc.) to completely discount the theory due to a single QA. Then the "Watchtower Bishop" that Haneda Kohji claimed they had could even be the data on the Silver Bullet/APTX 4869 research.
The manga also emphasized a few moments where Elena Miyano was nice and bubbly one moment, and using violent language another moment. Some claimed she acted coldly, and others claim she was very friendly. She was even nicknamed the "Hell Angel" or "the angel that fell to Hell" by other members of the BO. One moment that springs to mind is what she said to Bourbon in Ch. 1011, where the violent side of her personality partially slips through past her front of kindness:
I am still ambivalent as to the idea that Atsushi is alive as Kuroda since there's barely any evidence that could be used to point towards that idea as of now (Kuroda went camping to check up on his wife Rumi maybe but that's all). But that theory would likely suggest Atsushi "replaced" Kuroda after the accident from 10 years ago. Though the logistics of Atsushi becoming police chief, let alone an important member of the NPA, make me somewhat skeptical of this theory even though their faces do look somewhat similar.
The QA regarding the Miyanos is from Let's Talk with Gosho Aoyama Day 2018.Q92: Is RUM certainly amongst the trio of Kuroda, Wakasa and Wakita?
A: It is, indeed!
I don't have a firm understanding of how the Japanese language works but this question seems a bit vague for Gosho to just immediately deny it (what Miyanos are being referred to). I wouldn't blame Gosho if he panicked in this moment and he gave this answer even though one of the Miyano parents were still alive. If fans suspect that they might still be alive then the surprise might be ruined. This would be an example of a question where "there is no correct answer" if the answer truly is yes since even just declining to answer would highly indicate that the answer is yes. And it would just prod more questions related to the Miyano parents which would inevitably give away the surprise.Q23: "Is there any possibility of the Miyanos being alive?"
A: "None! There's none!"
If the answer was no I think Gosho would respond with something like "Oh, Haibara's parent's? Ah, that would be happy, would it not?" or something else vague to at least open up the possibility of theorizing to the readers. Also it's been demonstrated that Gosho makes some stuff up as he goes (like Masumi Sera) and I doubt he would completely shut the door on the Miyanos being alive since it's something that would bring joy to the fans and them being dead is not central to the current plot in any way.
Here's another quote from Black+ Super Digest Book:
Obviously not a direct confirmation from Gosho but Gosho's remark here seems to suggest at the very least that Wakasi Rumi was somehow directly involved in the Silver Bullet/APTX 4869 research, perhaps even invested enough to base her pseudonym around the drug.Q97: Wakasa Rumi-sensei’s name (若狭留美) always looks like “若さ wakasa (youth)”, “留める todomeru (stop)”, “美しさ utsukushisa (beauty)”. Is it related to Vermouth’s immortality?
A: You’re amazing! (laughs)
The manga's only statement on the matter seems to be that Haibara claimed that she was told by someone else in the Black Organization that Elena Miyano and Atsushi Miyano had died when Pisco "accidentally" set fire to their lab. How would the Black Organization confirm that someone was burnt to ashes in a fire? Perhaps a DNA test but seems out of character for the BO and there are many possibilities to fool a DNA test anyways.
I think that there are way too many moments and currently unanswered questions in the manga that Rumi Wakasa being Elena Miyano would explain (why Bourbon and Wakasa seem to know each other, Rumi having the APTX 4869 list, why Elena Miyano is suddenly becoming such an important plot point via Bourbon, Haibara saying she likes Rumi, why the BO is so determined to find Asaka, etc.) to completely discount the theory due to a single QA. Then the "Watchtower Bishop" that Haneda Kohji claimed they had could even be the data on the Silver Bullet/APTX 4869 research.
The manga also emphasized a few moments where Elena Miyano was nice and bubbly one moment, and using violent language another moment. Some claimed she acted coldly, and others claim she was very friendly. She was even nicknamed the "Hell Angel" or "the angel that fell to Hell" by other members of the BO. One moment that springs to mind is what she said to Bourbon in Ch. 1011, where the violent side of her personality partially slips through past her front of kindness:
Wakasa Rumi fits a very similar profile to Elena Miyano not just visually but also behaviorally, where a violent underside is masked by a front of kindness. Even if you're still skeptical on Elena Miyano being alive just because of a single QA question, I think you at least can't deny that a strong connection between Wakasa Rumi and Elena Miyano between seems to be intentionally emphasized by Gosho Aoyama."That although people might look different... Eeeveryone is ultimately just a lump of meat and blood when you cut them up and remove their skin... And as for proof... Black, White, Asian, ... Eeeveryone, as you can see... has red blood running through their veins, see?! That is what you ought to tell them!! Got that?"
I am still ambivalent as to the idea that Atsushi is alive as Kuroda since there's barely any evidence that could be used to point towards that idea as of now (Kuroda went camping to check up on his wife Rumi maybe but that's all). But that theory would likely suggest Atsushi "replaced" Kuroda after the accident from 10 years ago. Though the logistics of Atsushi becoming police chief, let alone an important member of the NPA, make me somewhat skeptical of this theory even though their faces do look somewhat similar.
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Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)
Personally I hope the Miyano's aren't alive, feel like it would take away from Haibara's character arc which so far has been about moving on from her past and what she's lost and appreciating what she has now, it would feel weird to bring her past back up like that.
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Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)
Gosho already confirmed that the Miyanos are dead in Let's Talk Day (2018).Angra Shadow wrote: ↑February 12th, 2021, 9:52 amPersonally I hope the Miyano's aren't alive, feel like it would take away from Haibara's character arc which so far has been about moving on from her past and what she's lost and appreciating what she has now, it would feel weird to bring her past back up like that.
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Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)
Thanks for pointing it out.
I agree somewhat, mostly because of their facial similarities. And no, I'm not talking about any disguise here like the Kuroda one.Even if you're still skeptical on Elena Miyano being alive just because of a single QA question, I think you at least can't deny that a strong connection between Wakasa Rumi and Elena Miyano between seems to be intentionally emphasized by Gosho Aoyama.
That was just pointed out two posts ago.MeiTanteixX wrote: ↑February 12th, 2021, 10:31 amGosho already confirmed that the Miyanos are dead in Let's Talk Day (2018).
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Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)
I feel like Haibara's character arc is less about her "moving on from her past" and more about not losing hope. At the beginning she kept constantly trying to sacrifice herself because she had no hope the people around her would still survive if she was alive. Her character development seems to center around pushing her to confront her past rather than run away from it. Then the completion of the arc would be her hope being rewarded by her mother "coming back to life".Angra Shadow wrote: ↑February 12th, 2021, 9:52 amPersonally I hope the Miyano's aren't alive, feel like it would take away from Haibara's character arc which so far has been about moving on from her past and what she's lost and appreciating what she has now, it would feel weird to bring her past back up like that.
If the completion of the arc is "appreciating what she has now" then it seems to imply that the Akai family will end up "adopting" Shiho/Haibara in some capacity since what she has now is 3 cousins and an aunt confirmed to still be alive, and it doesn't really feel like the manga is intending to go in that direction (we would be seeing more moments of her bonding or at least interacting with Subaru, Sera, and Shukichi).
Keep in mind that Shiho basically didn't meet her parents at all. Haibara is currently 18 and her parents died "shortly after she was born" (Ch. 939) (perhaps coinciding with the case from 17 years ago). She loved her sister Akemi because her sister raised her after they were orphaned, but likely never had the opportunity to develop this bond with her mother.
In Ch. 821 (Jet Black Mystery Train) Haibara recalls listening to her mother's message which says "Alright, so the next time will be your 19th birthday... bye bye... see you soon... [a bunch of stuff about the drug] please understand, Shiho." Note that it's specifically addressed to Shiho, not Akemi. So why does she mention Haibara's 19th birthday? Did Elena Miyano record a message for every one of Haibara's birthdays in case she died? Could this be foreshadowing as to the next moment when Haibara will meet her mother?
Also recall Ch. 948 where Haibara mentions that her mother used to own a Put On Mascara hand mirror (probably multiple in order for Akemi to be able to keep one). It seems like Asaka owned one too as it was found in Kohji's room. Circumstantial, I suppose (as everyone owned them apparently), but it's not nothing.
But if you really think they need to be dead to have a happy ending then maybe Elena Miyano / Wakasa Rumi can sacrifice herself to save Haibara later on
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Posts: 69
Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)
It doesn´t matter if Gosho said that the Miyanos are dead because in the eyes of everyone, they are dead. If they really adopted a new identity then he could justify that answer saying that they adopted a full new identity and left their past back to be considered as dead.
In a narrative point of view, Rum arc was developed to be the arc that precedes the final one so for me makes less sense to introduce so many new characters. I rather believe that Gosho wants to just put all the pieces together and the Miyanos are one of the key pieces on the plot. Think it his way:
If Rumi Wakasa is just Asaka, Kohji´s lover and Amanda´s bodyguard, is this really relevant for the plot? Even if she worked as a scientific involved with BO..which is going to add to the main plot, what links Rumi with Bourbon? why showing flashback about the Miyanos this arc?
Just think about how important is Elena, she created with Atsushi the original silver bullet and she is linked to a few of the most important characters in the series: Ai´s mother, Mary Akai´s sister, she knew Bourbon and she worked directly for Karasuma so for me it would be epic if she is alive. I must confess that there are strongest points towards Elena Miyano being alive, she is a much more important character in the series than Atsushi but we can´t deny him to be alive too. Also, when Mary appeared for the first time there were really popular theories portraying her as Elena, while for me that theory had weaker points, although not so many people opposed by saying that the Miyanos are for sure dead.
Hizami made strong points about Rumi/Elena, I specially liked about the recording tapes that still remain a mistery, here it goes the last one:
Shiho, won't you regret what you are about to do? If so, I'm totally on your side! Well, it will be you nineteenth birthday next time. Bye-bye, honey. Oh yes, maybe it's about time I told you... The truth is, your mom is making a truly terrifying drug at the moment. My lab mates are getting really excited about it, they say it's like a dream drug. Your dad and I are putting all our hopes on it and calling it the Silver Bullet! But in order to complete the drug, your dad and I will have to leave you and your sister. Please understand, Shiho.
Rumi´s quote for me are somehow similar to Elena´s:
Indeed, Haibara it´s 18 years old and it coud be that in her next birthday se will reunite with her mother. There is still some mistery involved with this tapes that has not been solved yet...
Haibara is a hopeless character, she is not going to end up with Shinichi and I hope Gosho doesn´t put her with that Higo guy or whatever, for her, the ultimate happy ending would be to see again her parents, Maybe, unfortunately, Elena will die at the end of the series but I believe she is not dead.
In a narrative point of view, Rum arc was developed to be the arc that precedes the final one so for me makes less sense to introduce so many new characters. I rather believe that Gosho wants to just put all the pieces together and the Miyanos are one of the key pieces on the plot. Think it his way:
If Rumi Wakasa is just Asaka, Kohji´s lover and Amanda´s bodyguard, is this really relevant for the plot? Even if she worked as a scientific involved with BO..which is going to add to the main plot, what links Rumi with Bourbon? why showing flashback about the Miyanos this arc?
Just think about how important is Elena, she created with Atsushi the original silver bullet and she is linked to a few of the most important characters in the series: Ai´s mother, Mary Akai´s sister, she knew Bourbon and she worked directly for Karasuma so for me it would be epic if she is alive. I must confess that there are strongest points towards Elena Miyano being alive, she is a much more important character in the series than Atsushi but we can´t deny him to be alive too. Also, when Mary appeared for the first time there were really popular theories portraying her as Elena, while for me that theory had weaker points, although not so many people opposed by saying that the Miyanos are for sure dead.
Hizami made strong points about Rumi/Elena, I specially liked about the recording tapes that still remain a mistery, here it goes the last one:
Shiho, won't you regret what you are about to do? If so, I'm totally on your side! Well, it will be you nineteenth birthday next time. Bye-bye, honey. Oh yes, maybe it's about time I told you... The truth is, your mom is making a truly terrifying drug at the moment. My lab mates are getting really excited about it, they say it's like a dream drug. Your dad and I are putting all our hopes on it and calling it the Silver Bullet! But in order to complete the drug, your dad and I will have to leave you and your sister. Please understand, Shiho.
Rumi´s quote for me are somehow similar to Elena´s:
Indeed, Haibara it´s 18 years old and it coud be that in her next birthday se will reunite with her mother. There is still some mistery involved with this tapes that has not been solved yet...
Haibara is a hopeless character, she is not going to end up with Shinichi and I hope Gosho doesn´t put her with that Higo guy or whatever, for her, the ultimate happy ending would be to see again her parents, Maybe, unfortunately, Elena will die at the end of the series but I believe she is not dead.
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Posts: 127
Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)
Your post is convincing. I can't deny or flat out reject many of the points you made. Because I too feel this plot must converge to something big and unexpected.
But, here we go again. It all comes down to how we wish to interpret Gosho's answers in the interview, whether it be about the Rum question, miyano or anything else. If you want to make that argument, you should disregard the interviews completely I think, instead of trying to interpret them as you wish. As I said, your theory/speculation is convincing storywise, but I am not sure about bringing everyone back from the dead.
But, here we go again. It all comes down to how we wish to interpret Gosho's answers in the interview, whether it be about the Rum question, miyano or anything else. If you want to make that argument, you should disregard the interviews completely I think, instead of trying to interpret them as you wish. As I said, your theory/speculation is convincing storywise, but I am not sure about bringing everyone back from the dead.