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Theory on the History of Elena Miyano/Drug research/''sister outside the domain''/Furuya Rei

Posted: November 18th, 2014, 8:01 pm
by MeiTanteixX
WARNING!

THIS THREAD HAS A LOT OF SPOILS INCLUDED SINCE IT REVOLVES AROUND THE LATEST CHAPTERS/STORY! IF YOU ARE LOOKING FOR A SPOILER-FREE DISCUSSION THREAD, THIS IS NOT FOR YOU.

So I have been sinking in deep thought about the whole drug research mystery ever since I reread the FILE 427, when haibara was listening to Elena's tape, and I came across a couple of theories. Now, I'm not sure if they have been mentioned by someone, other than myself, but hopefully you'll understand that this is what I came up by myself, and not intentionally stealing someone else's idea. Now, I'll divide my points into 4 main ponits:

1. Elena Miyano's History

2. Drug Research

3. Furuya Rei

4. ''Sister outside of the domain''

so, to start off...


Elena Miyano's History

Elena's History and involvement in the Black Organization, other than being a part of the research team, is shrouded in mystery. One thing, that felt like it had a key meaning to me was in fact that she came from Britain! Britain, aside from being Holmes country, has been foreshadowed, or hinted, to have a connection with a few characters in the series, such as James Black, Sera Masumi, Furuya Rei and Miyano Elena ofc. My Idea is that Britain, will also have a major role in the series, aside from being the place that shinichi confessed to ran.

To go straight to my theory, which a lot of you might've thought about, is that Elena Myiano was a secret agent who infiltrated the Black Organization, and worked for SIS(MI6). I really think that Gosho is gonna play this card, judging from his repetitive behavior. Elena Miyano, former name Elena Sera, worked as a researcher for the MI6, who've been on the BO's tail, just like FBI. Highly possible reason for that is that a British citizen is a member of the Black Organization, could be RUM, a currently-dead low ranked member, or even the Boss(which would fit the story). Either way, Their tailing lead to Myiano Atsushi, the outcasted scientist who's become known for his, probably absurd, ideas that every scientist believes goes outside the barrier of morality(Immortality, fountain of youth, call it whatever you like). He has been in the BO radar ever since he presented his thesis, so before the BO took action, elena was assigned with the mission to investigate him and his research. One thing lead to another, and they ended up getting married. Elena managed to infiltrate the BO when the they started to fulfill atsushi's financial needs for his research and atsushi found out about his wife's secret job along the way.

Drug Research

Miyano Atsushi and Elena started their drug research together and progressed to the same results that shiho has, which many of you might disagree with, since Pisco said in FILE 242 that her parents would be proud of her for taking the research to such a stage. That's not true!(according to my theory). Elena and atsushi had in fact, with the support of the whole research team kept their true research progress in the dark from the higher ups of the BO, with the intent of not letting the prototype fall in the wrong hand. So, in reality, they've already taken the Apotoxin 4869 to the known stage that shiho has, but kept that information away from members, who've been around for awhile, like Pisco, and just kept on their mask. But since Elena and atsushi didn't want to finish the drug, knowing what the BO was planning to do with, they prepared a countermeasure, the Silver Bullet project. It was basically the antidote for the drug(mentioned in FILE 821). But, since starting a new project without the BO's consent meant betrayal, there was no way to predict when the BO would find out and eventually kill them.

So they decided to take desperate measures,..to leave their kids behind for the sake of finishing the Silver Bullet Project without interruption, so that they can even have a chance on stopping the BO's plan. Their plan was to fake their death, and leave the BO with the help of MI6 and Zero and continue their research in Britain with full protection. Since baby shiho was held as hostage to make them work, they couldn't bring her with them. Akemi was left behind so that she could take care of her sister, and guide her to a better path, rather then being raised as a villain in the BO.

Furuya Rei

As elena was infiltrating the BO, She, and the MI6, got support from The Secret Police(Zero) who was also investigating the BO. Their cooperation was agreed on the terms that the MI6 would share some of their important Intel they got on the BO(such as how their operations worked, information regarding Vermouth for example[her secret]). Through their alliance, elena met the little boy Furuya Rei who was hanging around the secret police to support his brother(scotch) who worked for Zero. after elena and atsushi faked their death, elena spend a short period of time hiding in japan, with the secret police's full protection. Because rei and elena both had British blood, they got along pretty well and she even attended to the wounds he got from fighting in school. the time came when she had to flee to Britain, and she told rei that she couldn't attend to his wounds anymore because she was leaving. That's how Furuya Rei come to know about Miyano Elena, and why the MI6 came to mind when he was describing Agasa's inventions.

''Sister outside the domain''

Now, many have already started to speculate about who the-sister-outside-domain's sister is. My strong believe(which you can already guess by my naming in the beginning) is that it's Elena, the only important british woman in the serie. I have many reasons to believe so(here's a link to my thoughts on this matter:viewtopic.php?p=843317#p843317). Elena's sister visited her in Britain often as almost 20 years was passing. I would find it odd that gosho would keep shiho's parents alive after building so much character development around the fact that haibara was alone and that only she had the potential of creating an antidote, so I'd assume that their years of working with the silver bullet project has became impossible to finish, since maybe a key part of it was missing(vermouth de-aging DNA perhaps :P) and both of them died later on(sickness, heart failure from over-exhaustion or accident).

Elena's sister, however, was given the apotoxin 4869 prototype, that elena had kept in her lab, as a last wish for her sister to protect it and take it with her to the US, But it lead to the misfortune of her digesting it by accident. Since she was sickly from the beginning, she took pills daily, and as she asked her daughter to bring them for her, masumi gave her the wrong one by accident. So,..she witnessed her mother shrink into a kid(funny story). Since the only scientist who has knowledge about the apotoxin is her own niece, who lives in japan, she asked masumi, who already planned to go there, to take her with her. Elena's sister probably knew about akai's fake death as she might've been told by james Black, the friend of the family that supported their trip to japan financially. Now she's on the quest to meet her niece to tell her everything. Sera helped her mother out by investigating haibara, but to arrange the meeting, sera needs to get through conan(Her childhood crush) first!

Re: Theory on the History of Elena Miyano/Drug research/''sister outside the domain''/Furuya Rei

Posted: November 18th, 2014, 8:16 pm
by Nemomon
Hmm... it was nice to read this, and I would believe that it really is the card Gosho will play.

Re: Theory on the History of Elena Miyano/Drug research/''sister outside the domain''/Furuya Rei

Posted: November 19th, 2014, 2:20 am
by kholoudsafir
She might be Elena, which I support too, because it is said many times that she had an "accident" in the lab, but I am not too sure of your analysis of the details, I do not have a reason except my gut feeling, but over all nice effort!

Re: Theory on the History of Elena Miyano/Drug research/''sister outside the domain''/Furuya Rei

Posted: November 19th, 2014, 2:50 am
by MeiTanteixX
kholoudsafir wrote:She might be Elena, which I support too, because it is said many times that she had an "accident" in the lab, but I am not too sure of your analysis of the details, I do not have a reason except my gut feeling, but over all nice effort!
Thanks! ^.^
Well, I've put every(at least that I know of) hint and foreshadowing, that we've come across in the serie into consideration. Go with reason @kholoudsafir, Gosho is known for decieving ones gut! ;)

Also, if something doesn't add up, like a missing piece I've left out or simply something that would seem unreasonable, please let me know! :)

Re: Theory on the History of Elena Miyano/Drug research/''sister outside the domain''/Furuya Rei

Posted: November 19th, 2014, 4:20 pm
by Shiromi
Can't write much, but i'll put this out there: according to your theory, Akai was dating his sister? Masumi Sera is Akai's sister, and you're saying that Akai's mother is Elena Sera, which makes Akemi Miyano his half-sister.

Re: Theory on the History of Elena Miyano/Drug research/''sister outside the domain''/Furuya Rei

Posted: November 19th, 2014, 4:29 pm
by Nemomon
Shiromi wrote:Can't write much, but i'll put this out there: according to your theory, Akai was dating his sister? Masumi Sera is Akai's sister, and you're saying that Akai's mother is Elena Sera, which makes Akemi Miyano his half-sister.
It could always be that de didn't know she was his sister. If killing the BO was not in both parties's interest, Akai probably would never meet Akemi. It was just a coincidence that they met.

Re: Theory on the History of Elena Miyano/Drug research/''sister outside the domain''/Furuya Rei

Posted: November 19th, 2014, 4:51 pm
by Shiromi
Nemomon wrote:
Shiromi wrote:Can't write much, but i'll put this out there: according to your theory, Akai was dating his sister? Masumi Sera is Akai's sister, and you're saying that Akai's mother is Elena Sera, which makes Akemi Miyano his half-sister.
It could always be that de didn't know she was his sister. If killing the BO was not in both parties's interest, Akai probably would never meet Akemi. It was just a coincidence that they met.
He'd know if Elena was his mother. Going over their family history, what little we know, Mrs. Sera is still alive, and living in the US. I think it's more probable if Elena is related to James Black. He's an immigrant to the US from Britain.

Re: Theory on the History of Elena Miyano/Drug research/''sister outside the domain''/Furuya Rei

Posted: November 19th, 2014, 6:21 pm
by MeiTanteixX
Shiromi wrote:Can't write much, but i'll put this out there: according to your theory, Akai was dating his sister? Masumi Sera is Akai's sister, and you're saying that Akai's mother is Elena Sera, which makes Akemi Miyano his half-sister.
What the..!? You've misunderstood me completely! !!! Read it again, Elena is Akai's aunt....according to my theory, Akai and akemi are first cousins!

basically, Sera's mom and Elena are sisters!!! Click on the link in the post if U wanna know why I think so

Re: Theory on the History of Elena Miyano/Drug research/''sister outside the domain''/Furuya Rei

Posted: November 19th, 2014, 7:11 pm
by Kor
You are inserting a lot of ideas that you don't provide evidence for in your theory, like Scotch being Bourbon's brother. Where is that from?

This paragraph is exceptionally problematic.
MeiTanteixX wrote: Elena's sister, however, was given the apotoxin 4869 prototype, that elena had kept in her lab, as a last wish for her sister to protect it and take it with her to the US, But it lead to the misfortune of her digesting it by accident. Since she was sickly from the beginning, she took pills daily, and as she asked her daughter to bring them for her, masumi gave her the wrong one by accident. So,..she witnessed her mother shrink into a kid(funny story). Since the only scientist who has knowledge about the apotoxin is her own niece, who lives in japan, she asked masumi, who already planned to go there, to take her with her. Elena's sister probably knew about akai's fake death as she might've been told by james Black, the friend of the family that supported their trip to japan financially. Now she's on the quest to meet her niece to tell her everything. Sera helped her mother out by investigating haibara, but to arrange the meeting, sera needs to get through conan(Her childhood crush) first!
This scenario is very unlikely, not just because it resembles something that would happen in a comedy manga (while the sister outside the domain seems a rather serious person who doesn't trust people easily), but also because it seems somewhat contrived (such as "taking the pill by accident"). Too many "probablys" with lack of evidence make this seem quite presumptuous.
The Secret Police(Zero)
What is this supposed to imply? I thought the Zero thing was related to Amuro's nickname as a child (rei in Japanese is zero, iirc).

Re: Theory on the History of Elena Miyano/Drug research/''sister outside the domain''/Furuya Rei

Posted: November 19th, 2014, 8:47 pm
by Shiromi
MeiTanteixX wrote:
Shiromi wrote:Can't write much, but i'll put this out there: according to your theory, Akai was dating his sister? Masumi Sera is Akai's sister, and you're saying that Akai's mother is Elena Sera, which makes Akemi Miyano his half-sister.
What the..!? You've misunderstood me completely! !!! Read it again, Elena is Akai's aunt....according to my theory, Akai and akemi are first cousins!

basically, Sera's mom and Elena are sisters!!! Click on the link in the post if U wanna know why I think so
That's still incest, and Akai still would have known if she was his cousin. Think about it - he targeted Akemi specifically because he knew of her family connections to the BO, therefore, he would have known exactly who she was. Also, getting into the BO through family connections would be easier than what Akai did - throw himself infront of a car in order to seduce Akemi. Since he went with the possible vehicular manslaughter technique, it's safe to say that he isn't Akemi's cousin.

Also, your theory about Elena's family has no more evidence to support it than saying Elena is related to James Black.

If Elena were a secret agent, she'd have to be incredibly irresponsible to bring children into such a dangerous situation. First off, it's like begging to be blackmailed. Kids are great hostages, and having them would be a great way to set yourself up to compromise your investigation. Second, raising children brainwashed into this dangerous organization, giving them more agents for their cause, is really, REALLY stupid. So, I doubt Elena was a secret agent with MI6 or the FBI, because that'd make the character a contemptible idiot, which I don't think Goushou is aiming for.

Agasa mentioned something about having met Atsushi Miyano at a conference and found the guy pleasant enough, not the mad scientist that he'd been made out to be, and that Mr. Miyano was considered a fringe scientist with insane theories. Being rejected by the scientific community and trying to support a growing family, they joined up with the BO, not really understanding what a mess they were getting into. By the time they'd figured it out, it was too late. They were separated from their children, who were held hostage to control them. Finally, they either committed suicide, died in a car accident, or faked their deaths, leaving behind their two daughters.

There is zero evidence that Scotch was related to Rei. We know that Rei liked Scotch and was greatly affected by his death, but other than that, we know nothing of their relationship.

I don't think Elena is the little girl staying with Sera. They don't look enough alike. Elena had straight, blonde hair and poor eyesight. The little girl has eyes like Sera, curly blond hair, and no hint of eyesight problems. I think it's more likely that she's related to Sera somehow.

I doubt that the mystery girl is an APTX victim. Shinichi was 16 when he was force-fed it, ended up a 6-7 year old kid. Shiho was 19 years old, and ended up a 6-7 year old kid. Therefore, no matter your age before, you end up with the body of a 6-7 year old kid. Shinichi is the first human test subject, something that's mentioned by Gin when he force-feeds it to Shinichi, then later confirmed by Shiho, who says that the first was going to be Numabuchi. Therefore, there can't be an APTX victim that's become a kid older than Shinichi.

Re: Theory on the History of Elena Miyano/Drug research/''sister outside the domain''/Furuya Rei

Posted: November 19th, 2014, 11:59 pm
by Chekhov MacGuffin
MeiTanteixX wrote:WARNING!
Spoiler:
THIS THREAD HAS A LOT OF SPOILS INCLUDED SINCE IT REVOLVES AROUND THE LATEST CHAPTERS/STORY! IF YOU ARE LOOKING FOR A SPOILER-FREE DISCUSSION THREAD, THIS IS NOT FOR YOU.

So I have been sinking in deep thought about the whole drug research mystery ever since I reread the FILE 427, when haibara was listening to Elena's tape, and I came across a couple of theories. Now, I'm not sure if they have been mentioned by someone, other than myself, but hopefully you'll understand that this is what I came up by myself, and not intentionally stealing someone else's idea. Now, I'll divide my points into 4 main ponits:

1. Elena Miyano's History

2. Drug Research

3. Furuya Rei

4. ''Sister outside of the domain''

so, to start off...


Elena Miyano's History

Elena's History and involvement in the Black Organization, other than being a part of the research team, is shrouded in mystery. One thing, that felt like it had a key meaning to me was in fact that she came from Britain! Britain, aside from being Holmes country, has been foreshadowed, or hinted, to have a connection with a few characters in the series, such as James Black, Sera Masumi, Furuya Rei and Miyano Elena ofc. My Idea is that Britain, will also have a major role in the series, aside from being the place that shinichi confessed to ran.

To go straight to my theory, which a lot of you might've thought about, is that Elena Myiano was a secret agent who infiltrated the Black Organization, and worked for SIS(MI6). I really think that Gosho is gonna play this card, judging from his repetitive behavior. Elena Miyano, former name Elena Sera, worked as a researcher for the MI6, who've been on the BO's tail, just like FBI. Highly possible reason for that is that a British citizen is a member of the Black Organization, could be RUM, a currently-dead low ranked member, or even the Boss(which would fit the story). Either way, Their tailing lead to Myiano Atsushi, the outcasted scientist who's become known for his, probably absurd, ideas that every scientist believes goes outside the barrier of morality(Immortality, fountain of youth, call it whatever you like). He has been in the BO radar ever since he presented his thesis, so before the BO took action, elena was assigned with the mission to investigate him and his research. One thing lead to another, and they ended up getting married. Elena managed to infiltrate the BO when the they started to fulfill atsushi's financial needs for his research and atsushi found out about his wife's secret job along the way.

Drug Research

Miyano Atsushi and Elena started their drug research together and progressed to the same results that shiho has, which many of you might disagree with, since Pisco said in FILE 242 that her parents would be proud of her for taking the research to such a stage. That's not true!(according to my theory). Elena and atsushi had in fact, with the support of the whole research team kept their true research progress in the dark from the higher ups of the BO, with the intent of not letting the prototype fall in the wrong hand. So, in reality, they've already taken the Apotoxin 4869 to the known stage that shiho has, but kept that information away from members, who've been around for awhile, like Pisco, and just kept on their mask. But since Elena and atsushi didn't want to finish the drug, knowing what the BO was planning to do with, they prepared a countermeasure, the Silver Bullet project. It was basically the antidote for the drug(mentioned in FILE 821). But, since starting a new project without the BO's consent meant betrayal, there was no way to predict when the BO would find out and eventually kill them.

So they decided to take desperate measures,..to leave their kids behind for the sake of finishing the Silver Bullet Project without interruption, so that they can even have a chance on stopping the BO's plan. Their plan was to fake their death, and leave the BO with the help of MI6 and Zero and continue their research in Britain with full protection. Since baby shiho was held as hostage to make them work, they couldn't bring her with them. Akemi was left behind so that she could take care of her sister, and guide her to a better path, rather then being raised as a villain in the BO.

Furuya Rei

As elena was infiltrating the BO, She, and the MI6, got support from The Secret Police(Zero) who was also investigating the BO. Their cooperation was agreed on the terms that the MI6 would share some of their important Intel they got on the BO(such as how their operations worked, information regarding Vermouth for example[her secret]). Through their alliance, elena met the little boy Furuya Rei who was hanging around the secret police to support his brother(scotch) who worked for Zero. after elena and atsushi faked their death, elena spend a short period of time hiding in japan, with the secret police's full protection. Because rei and elena both had British blood, they got along pretty well and she even attended to the wounds he got from fighting in school. the time came when she had to flee to Britain, and she told rei that she couldn't attend to his wounds anymore because she was leaving. That's how Furuya Rei come to know about Miyano Elena, and why the MI6 came to mind when he was describing Agasa's inventions.

''Sister outside the domain''

Now, many have already started to speculate about who the ''sister outside domain's''(which almost everyone can be certain of is Sera and Akai's mother) sister is. My strong believe(which you can already guess by my naming in the beginning) is that it's Elena, the only important british woman in the serie. I have many reasons to believe so(here's a link to my thoughts on this matter:viewtopic.php?p=843317#p843317). Elena's sister visited her in Britain often as almost 20 years was passing. I would find it odd that gosho would keep shiho's parents alive after building so much character development around the fact that haibara was alone and that only she had the potential of creating an antidote, so I'd assume that their years of working with the silver bullet project has became impossible to finish, since maybe a key part of it was missing(vermouth de-aging DNA perhaps :P) and both of them died later on(sickness, heart failure from over-exhaustion or accident).

Elena's sister, however, was given the apotoxin 4869 prototype, that elena had kept in her lab, as a last wish for her sister to protect it and take it with her to the US, But it lead to the misfortune of her digesting it by accident. Since she was sickly from the beginning, she took pills daily, and as she asked her daughter to bring them for her, masumi gave her the wrong one by accident. So,..she witnessed her mother shrink into a kid(funny story). Since the only scientist who has knowledge about the apotoxin is her own niece, who lives in japan, she asked masumi, who already planned to go there, to take her with her. Elena's sister probably knew about akai's fake death as she might've been told by james Black, the friend of the family that supported their trip to japan financially. Now she's on the quest to meet her niece to tell her everything. Sera helped her mother out by investigating haibara, but to arrange the meeting, sera needs to get through conan(Her childhood crush) first!
Others have already pointed out some of the things I would have wanted to say, but there are still a few things bothering me.

One is that you are assuming the sister from outside the domain is actually a character. Please recall the context (878):
Masumi and the child have just smashed one of Conan's bugs he planted in the hotel room.
Masumi: "So what do you think? Have you taken a liking to him?"
Kid: "I'm still a long way from trusting him, but if he becomes impatient and inquires about me, please tell him I'm your little sister from outside the domain."
The "little sister from outside the domain" isn't a new character, it's a lie that the child asked Masumi to tell Conan.

Why would Elena and Atsushi actually complete the drug research if they opposed the Black Organization? According to your story, if they didn't actually finish, they wouldn't have to worry about it falling into the wrong hands or leaving their children behind in order to prepare a counter measure. Even if baby Shiho was being held hostage, why would they actually do what they were asked rather than make incremental but ultimately unsubstantial progress?
Also I have a problem with the idea that Akemi was left behind to protect her sister. Akemi is only about 7 years older than Shiho based on her appearance in the bathroom case. If Shiho was a baby when she was left behind, that means the Miyano family entrusted a child under ten to somehow avoid being brainwashed and then raise her sister properly.
MeiTanteixX wrote:Miyano Atsushi and Elena started their drug research together and progressed to the same results that shiho has, which many of you might disagree with, since Pisco said in FILE 242 that her parents would be proud of her for taking the research to such a stage. That's not true!(according to my theory).
Contradicting an apparent fact in the manga because it doesn't fit in with the story you are trying to tell isn't convincing without evidence to explain why it should be dismissed.

Re: Theory on the History of Elena Miyano/Drug research/''sister outside the domain''/Furuya Rei

Posted: November 20th, 2014, 12:37 am
by MeiTanteixX
Kor wrote:You are inserting a lot of ideas that you don't provide evidence for in your theory, like Scotch being Bourbon's brother. Where is that from?

This paragraph is exceptionally problematic.
MeiTanteixX wrote: Elena's sister, however, was given the apotoxin 4869 prototype, that elena had kept in her lab, as a last wish for her sister to protect it and take it with her to the US, But it lead to the misfortune of her digesting it by accident. Since she was sickly from the beginning, she took pills daily, and as she asked her daughter to bring them for her, masumi gave her the wrong one by accident. So,..she witnessed her mother shrink into a kid(funny story). Since the only scientist who has knowledge about the apotoxin is her own niece, who lives in japan, she asked masumi, who already planned to go there, to take her with her. Elena's sister probably knew about akai's fake death as she might've been told by james Black, the friend of the family that supported their trip to japan financially. Now she's on the quest to meet her niece to tell her everything. Sera helped her mother out by investigating haibara, but to arrange the meeting, sera needs to get through conan(Her childhood crush) first!
This scenario is very unlikely, not just because it resembles something that would happen in a comedy manga (while the sister outside the domain seems a rather serious person who doesn't trust people easily), but also because it seems somewhat contrived (such as "taking the pill by accident"). Too many "probablys" with lack of evidence make this seem quite presumptuous.
The Secret Police(Zero)
What is this supposed to imply? I thought the Zero thing was related to Amuro's nickname as a child (rei in Japanese is zero, iirc).
I purposely added "probably" and "funny story" on that part so that u guys could take that story lightly. When I add "probably", please don't assume that it's the highlight of my whole theory that I fully believe happened. Im just stating possibilities that I came up with on the spot(based on no evidence) to fill up gaps that I just don't have enough hints or signs to fully explain those part, rather then leaving them empty(without suggesting anything).

"Zero" was also the nickname to The secret police. When rei(which I btw know means zero) told conan about his nickname, conan believed that amuro was covering up the fact that he reacted to the nickname of the Secret Police(that conan believed rei worked for). When conan asked rei: "are you an enemy of the bad guys? Rei answered: "I was really called zero in my childhood" meaning that rei knew that conan thought the nickname story was a lie and that conan believed rei really reacted to the nickname of where he works at(the secret police). Look it up if u don't believe me :)
Shiromi wrote:
MeiTanteixX wrote:
Shiromi wrote:Can't write much, but i'll put this out there: according to your theory, Akai was dating his sister? Masumi Sera is Akai's sister, and you're saying that Akai's mother is Elena Sera, which makes Akemi Miyano his half-sister.
What the..!? You've misunderstood me completely! !!! Read it again, Elena is Akai's aunt....according to my theory, Akai and akemi are first cousins!

basically, Sera's mom and Elena are sisters!!! Click on the link in the post if U wanna know why I think so
That's still incest, and Akai still would have known if she was his cousin. Think about it - he targeted Akemi specifically because he knew of her family connections to the BO, therefore, he would have known exactly who she was. Also, getting into the BO through family connections would be easier than what Akai did - throw himself infront of a car in order to seduce Akemi. Since he went with the possible vehicular manslaughter technique, it's safe to say that he isn't Akemi's cousin.

Also, your theory about Elena's family has no more evidence to support it than saying Elena is related to James Black.

If Elena were a secret agent, she'd have to be incredibly irresponsible to bring children into such a dangerous situation. First off, it's like begging to be blackmailed. Kids are great hostages, and having them would be a great way to set yourself up to compromise your investigation. Second, raising children brainwashed into this dangerous organization, giving them more agents for their cause, is really, REALLY stupid. So, I doubt Elena was a secret agent with MI6 or the FBI, because that'd make the character a contemptible idiot, which I don't think Goushou is aiming for.

Agasa mentioned something about having met Atsushi Miyano at a conference and found the guy pleasant enough, not the mad scientist that he'd been made out to be, and that Mr. Miyano was considered a fringe scientist with insane theories. Being rejected by the scientific community and trying to support a growing family, they joined up with the BO, not really understanding what a mess they were getting into. By the time they'd figured it out, it was too late. They were separated from their children, who were held hostage to control them. Finally, they either committed suicide, died in a car accident, or faked their deaths, leaving behind their two daughters.

There is zero evidence that Scotch was related to Rei. We know that Rei liked Scotch and was greatly affected by his death, but other than that, we know nothing of their relationship.

I don't think Elena is the little girl staying with Sera. They don't look enough alike. Elena had straight, blonde hair and poor eyesight. The little girl has eyes like Sera, curly blond hair, and no hint of eyesight problems. I think it's more likely that she's related to Sera somehow.

I doubt that the mystery girl is an APTX victim. Shinichi was 16 when he was force-fed it, ended up a 6-7 year old kid. Shiho was 19 years old, and ended up a 6-7 year old kid. Therefore, no matter your age before, you end up with the body of a 6-7 year old kid. Shinichi is the first human test subject, something that's mentioned by Gin when he force-feeds it to Shinichi, then later confirmed by Shiho, who says that the first was going to be Numabuchi. Therefore, there can't be an APTX victim that's become a kid older than Shinichi.
We can't really guarantee how much Akai really knew about akemi, especially from her mothers side, because if Elena was an agent, background info would be harder to get. So there's no proof Akai really knew about her being his cousin. Call it incest if u want, in some cultures it's even normal anyway(and don't assume I'm talking about Japan).

don't know why you're telling me about the information that we already know from the series. About the whole "they didn't know what they were getting into", there's no proof that Elena didn't know beforehand that they were bad. And the whole MI6 Idea was based mostly on analyzing gosho's story writing style. The fact that he mentioned the MI6 and that he also adds agency/intelligences one after another into the series was something that I just couldn't let go of my mind. there's probably a purpose to why gosho is doing that. But ur free to believe that MI6 is unrelated to this. (Btw if it wasn't obvious, I'll tell you now, the "mad scientist" part was a quote from haibara, other than what agasa said, how would I know how his real personality was like)

The Scotch thing is another matter that I have a theory, either way, u are free to believe that he isn't related to rei.

ONCE AGAIN, you are misunderstanding my whole theory!!!! I never said that Elena shrank!!!! Nor did I say she was the little "sister outside the domain"!!! That's why I advice u to read it again....but if u still don't get it, Sera's mom is the little "sister", Elena is sera's aunt, in other words, Sera's mom is Elena's sister!!!

That last sentence doesn't even make sense. Why would u assume that there wasn't an apotoxin victim before shinichi that the BO have no info of. According to my theory, the BO shouldn't even know that the Myianos were alive!! Sera's mom didn't shrink inside the BO radar so they wouldn't know if there was a Apt4869 victim before shinichi that got a hold of the drug(according to my theory). And there's nothing proven on the effects of the apotoxin, we don't really know how much every individual would have actually shrunk. So basing ur comment on how much teenagers have shrunk is vague because there's no proof to that a person in her 40's would shrink the same way.

Re: Theory on the History of Elena Miyano/Drug research/''sister outside the domain''/Furuya Rei

Posted: November 20th, 2014, 12:44 am
by MeiTanteixX
Chekhov MacGuffin wrote:
MeiTanteixX wrote:WARNING!
Spoiler:
THIS THREAD HAS A LOT OF SPOILS INCLUDED SINCE IT REVOLVES AROUND THE LATEST CHAPTERS/STORY! IF YOU ARE LOOKING FOR A SPOILER-FREE DISCUSSION THREAD, THIS IS NOT FOR YOU.

So I have been sinking in deep thought about the whole drug research mystery ever since I reread the FILE 427, when haibara was listening to Elena's tape, and I came across a couple of theories. Now, I'm not sure if they have been mentioned by someone, other than myself, but hopefully you'll understand that this is what I came up by myself, and not intentionally stealing someone else's idea. Now, I'll divide my points into 4 main ponits:

1. Elena Miyano's History

2. Drug Research

3. Furuya Rei

4. ''Sister outside of the domain''

so, to start off...


Elena Miyano's History

Elena's History and involvement in the Black Organization, other than being a part of the research team, is shrouded in mystery. One thing, that felt like it had a key meaning to me was in fact that she came from Britain! Britain, aside from being Holmes country, has been foreshadowed, or hinted, to have a connection with a few characters in the series, such as James Black, Sera Masumi, Furuya Rei and Miyano Elena ofc. My Idea is that Britain, will also have a major role in the series, aside from being the place that shinichi confessed to ran.

To go straight to my theory, which a lot of you might've thought about, is that Elena Myiano was a secret agent who infiltrated the Black Organization, and worked for SIS(MI6). I really think that Gosho is gonna play this card, judging from his repetitive behavior. Elena Miyano, former name Elena Sera, worked as a researcher for the MI6, who've been on the BO's tail, just like FBI. Highly possible reason for that is that a British citizen is a member of the Black Organization, could be RUM, a currently-dead low ranked member, or even the Boss(which would fit the story). Either way, Their tailing lead to Myiano Atsushi, the outcasted scientist who's become known for his, probably absurd, ideas that every scientist believes goes outside the barrier of morality(Immortality, fountain of youth, call it whatever you like). He has been in the BO radar ever since he presented his thesis, so before the BO took action, elena was assigned with the mission to investigate him and his research. One thing lead to another, and they ended up getting married. Elena managed to infiltrate the BO when the they started to fulfill atsushi's financial needs for his research and atsushi found out about his wife's secret job along the way.

Drug Research

Miyano Atsushi and Elena started their drug research together and progressed to the same results that shiho has, which many of you might disagree with, since Pisco said in FILE 242 that her parents would be proud of her for taking the research to such a stage. That's not true!(according to my theory). Elena and atsushi had in fact, with the support of the whole research team kept their true research progress in the dark from the higher ups of the BO, with the intent of not letting the prototype fall in the wrong hand. So, in reality, they've already taken the Apotoxin 4869 to the known stage that shiho has, but kept that information away from members, who've been around for awhile, like Pisco, and just kept on their mask. But since Elena and atsushi didn't want to finish the drug, knowing what the BO was planning to do with, they prepared a countermeasure, the Silver Bullet project. It was basically the antidote for the drug(mentioned in FILE 821). But, since starting a new project without the BO's consent meant betrayal, there was no way to predict when the BO would find out and eventually kill them.

So they decided to take desperate measures,..to leave their kids behind for the sake of finishing the Silver Bullet Project without interruption, so that they can even have a chance on stopping the BO's plan. Their plan was to fake their death, and leave the BO with the help of MI6 and Zero and continue their research in Britain with full protection. Since baby shiho was held as hostage to make them work, they couldn't bring her with them. Akemi was left behind so that she could take care of her sister, and guide her to a better path, rather then being raised as a villain in the BO.

Furuya Rei

As elena was infiltrating the BO, She, and the MI6, got support from The Secret Police(Zero) who was also investigating the BO. Their cooperation was agreed on the terms that the MI6 would share some of their important Intel they got on the BO(such as how their operations worked, information regarding Vermouth for example[her secret]). Through their alliance, elena met the little boy Furuya Rei who was hanging around the secret police to support his brother(scotch) who worked for Zero. after elena and atsushi faked their death, elena spend a short period of time hiding in japan, with the secret police's full protection. Because rei and elena both had British blood, they got along pretty well and she even attended to the wounds he got from fighting in school. the time came when she had to flee to Britain, and she told rei that she couldn't attend to his wounds anymore because she was leaving. That's how Furuya Rei come to know about Miyano Elena, and why the MI6 came to mind when he was describing Agasa's inventions.

''Sister outside the domain''

Now, many have already started to speculate about who the ''sister outside domain's''(which almost everyone can be certain of is Sera and Akai's mother) sister is. My strong believe(which you can already guess by my naming in the beginning) is that it's Elena, the only important british woman in the serie. I have many reasons to believe so(here's a link to my thoughts on this matter:viewtopic.php?p=843317#p843317). Elena's sister visited her in Britain often as almost 20 years was passing. I would find it odd that gosho would keep shiho's parents alive after building so much character development around the fact that haibara was alone and that only she had the potential of creating an antidote, so I'd assume that their years of working with the silver bullet project has became impossible to finish, since maybe a key part of it was missing(vermouth de-aging DNA perhaps :P) and both of them died later on(sickness, heart failure from over-exhaustion or accident).

Elena's sister, however, was given the apotoxin 4869 prototype, that elena had kept in her lab, as a last wish for her sister to protect it and take it with her to the US, But it lead to the misfortune of her digesting it by accident. Since she was sickly from the beginning, she took pills daily, and as she asked her daughter to bring them for her, masumi gave her the wrong one by accident. So,..she witnessed her mother shrink into a kid(funny story). Since the only scientist who has knowledge about the apotoxin is her own niece, who lives in japan, she asked masumi, who already planned to go there, to take her with her. Elena's sister probably knew about akai's fake death as she might've been told by james Black, the friend of the family that supported their trip to japan financially. Now she's on the quest to meet her niece to tell her everything. Sera helped her mother out by investigating haibara, but to arrange the meeting, sera needs to get through conan(Her childhood crush) first!
Others have already pointed out some of the things I would have wanted to say, but there are still a few things bothering me.

One is that you are assuming the sister from outside the domain is actually a character. Please recall the context (878):
Masumi and the child have just smashed one of Conan's bugs he planted in the hotel room.
Masumi: "So what do you think? Have you taken a liking to him?"
Kid: "I'm still a long way from trusting him, but if he becomes impatient and inquires about me, please tell him I'm your little sister from outside the domain."
The "little sister from outside the domain" isn't a new character, it's a lie that the child asked Masumi to tell Conan.

Why would Elena and Atsushi actually complete the drug research if they opposed the Black Organization? According to your story, if they didn't actually finish, they wouldn't have to worry about it falling into the wrong hands or leaving their children behind in order to prepare a counter measure. Even if baby Shiho was being held hostage, why would they actually do what they were asked rather than make incremental but ultimately unsubstantial progress?
Also I have a problem with the idea that Akemi was left behind to protect her sister. Akemi is only about 7 years older than Shiho based on her appearance in the bathroom case. If Shiho was a baby when she was left behind, that means the Miyano family entrusted a child under ten to somehow avoid being brainwashed and then raise her sister properly.
MeiTanteixX wrote:Miyano Atsushi and Elena started their drug research together and progressed to the same results that shiho has, which many of you might disagree with, since Pisco said in FILE 242 that her parents would be proud of her for taking the research to such a stage. That's not true!(according to my theory).
Contradicting an apparent fact in the manga because it doesn't fit in with the story you are trying to tell isn't convincing without evidence to explain why it should be dismissed.
I'm not contradicting it(ignoring what he said and just going with what I think) I'm suggesting that there's a reason why he said it, and that it might be a reason to why there's another victim(before shinichi) that shrunk outside the BO radar. I doubt the little "sister" shrank in the organization as a test subject after shinichi's shrink.

Edit: i know it's a lie (about the the sister outside the domain thing), but since we aren't supposed know her identity, and we haven't got anything else to label her as from the series, I'm using that lie to refer to her.

I didn't say they finished it, i never even claimed that haibara's research results were the completions of the drug. The stage that the apotoxin is at isn't even proved to be it's final form. Her parents couldn't just sit and do nothing in the BO, but they didn't finish it, nor did they want the BO to know how far they actually got so that the BO wouldn't just rely on it to quickly like gin, without knowing it's full side effects.

And about akemi being too young and could be "brainwashed"...it's a good point that u mention it. I agree that leaving their 7 year old daughter with their baby daughter might be reckless, but if u recall what elena said in the tape, she was asking shiho if she would regret it(developing the drug). That means that Elena anticipated that her daughter would be forced to continue the project. Unless shiho had a real family member(a sister, that had a good influence from her parents, to be able to tell from right or wrong since she was 7, that could at the very least tell her about her origin(rather then for example being lied to about her parents) and, not to mention, a well prepared tape to guide her in the future from finishing the very drug the parents sacrificed them for) she wouldn't have that light of hope in her heart that makes her feel guilt about continuing the project. And besides, they might've left a tape, specifically for akemi too, telling her also where the tape for shiho is and how she should deliver it. How else would akemi remember that if she was told when she was only 7.

Re: Theory on the History of Elena Miyano/Drug research/''sister outside the domain''/Furuya Rei

Posted: November 20th, 2014, 2:51 am
by Spimer
I want to point out that you're making a slight mistake: Gin says in File 1 that Shinichi was the 1st test subject but on Haibara's explanation of the APTX she mentions that several people have been killed with the APTX already, way before Gin used it on Shinichi: so they knew the effectiveness of the drug.

If you look at that list you'll see that everyone else apart from Shinichi had their deaths confirmed by the BO.

http://www.detectiveconanworld.com/wiki ... 69_Victims

In short: what Gin said is File 1 has been retconned and is no longer a valid statement.

I hope this info was of help.

Re: Theory on the History of Elena Miyano/Drug research/''sister outside the domain''/Furuya Rei

Posted: November 20th, 2014, 4:25 am
by MeiTanteixX
Spimer wrote:I want to point out that you're making a slight mistake: Gin says in File 1 that Shinichi was the 1st test subject but on Haibara's explanation of the APTX she mentions that several people have been killed with the APTX already, way before Gin used it on Shinichi: so they knew the effectiveness of the drug.

If you look at that list you'll see that everyone else apart from Shinichi had their deaths confirmed by the BO.

http://www.detectiveconanworld.com/wiki ... 69_Victims

In short: what Gin said is File 1 has been retconned and is no longer a valid statement.

I hope this info was of help.
Yes it was, thanks for the confirmation, cause in all honesty, that's what I believed in the beginning but because it was awhile since I read that chapter, I thought maybe I misunderstood it when @shiromi said that he was the first victim. ^^