The voice change

[Xmortal]

My bad English/Mi ingles malo

The Voice changer have Ran's voice?
I believe that the Voice Changer never used with Ran?
Why?


In Spanish/En español:

¿El Cambiador de Voz tiene la voz de Ran?
¿Este cambiador de voz nunca se ha usado con Ran?
¿Por que?

[sdf1macross]

I think I remember Conan saying that he didn't want to risk having Ran solving a crime and not remember doing it, she is not as stupid as Kogoro and she would have been suspicious.

Creo recordar a Conan diciendo que no se queria arriesgar a hacer que Ran resolviera un crimen y que no recordara hacerlo, ella no es tan tonta como Kogoro y habria tenido muchas sospechas.

Same answer two languages 

[Xmortal]

Which is chapter/episode/movie ?


¿Cual capitulo/episodio/pelicula es ?

[sdf1macross]

Early episodes, don't remember which one exactly.

De los primeros episodios no recuerdo cual exactamente. 

[Chekhov MacGuffin]

Which is chapter/episode/movie ?
¿Cual capitulo/episodio/pelicula es ?

Son capitulos 139 - 143, Volumen 14: Capitulos 9-10 y Volumen 15: Capitulos 1-3, y episodios 84 - 85 (Ski Lodge Murder Case)

On a similar note does anyone know the episode/movie/ova where Shinichi (or Conan) is on a bus with Ran playing a license plate game where they use the numbers and letter to spell out words/phrases. Shinichi figures out that a car is carrying a bunch of robbers/murders because he realizes that the car has a fake license plate and it spells out "murderer" or something similar. I am pretty sure this isn't in the manga.

[Xmortal]

Don't worry, Ran is totally stupid for the cases.

No se preocupen, Total Ran es estupida para los casos.

[grone4ever89]

On a similar note does anyone know the episode/movie/ova where Shinichi (or Conan) is on a bus with Ran playing a license plate game where they use the numbers and letter to spell out words/phrases. Shinichi figures out that a car is carrying a bunch of robbers/murders because he realizes that the car has a fake license plate and it spells out "murderer" or something similar. I am pretty sure this isn't in the manga.

That episode you're talking about is Episode 400 Ran's Suspicions 「疑惑をæŒ

[Chekhov MacGuffin]

[quote author=grone4ever89 link=topic=1153.msg19713#msg19713 date=1234759964]
That episode you're talking about is Episode 400 Ran's Suspicions 「疑惑を持った蘭」.
[/quote]

Thanks a bunch. I was driving myself crazy trying to find it. I remember I saw it about half a year ago and I had been trying to track it down since.

[TheBlind]

Don't worry, Ran is totally stupid for the cases.

No se preocupen, Total Ran es estupida para los casos.

Yeah, I don't agree that Ran is truly stupid for it seems like more and more that her personality is "adapted" for the purpose of each individual case. Which is why you having acting in so many different ways in similar cases like ep.167 when she couldn't find Kazuha. Was really sad to see Ran used in that way, hiding in a garage, with her back turned, in a little kid position, and crying her eyes out when it previous cases she would be hunting down for the missing person(to the point of exhaustion) or looking for someone to help regardless if there was a demon/ghost involved.

[Nyarl]

Don't worry, Ran is totally stupid for the cases.

No se preocupen, Total Ran es estupida para los casos.

Yeah, I don't agree that Ran is truly stupid for it seems like more and more that her personality is "adapted" for the purpose of each individual case. Which is why you having acting in so many different ways in similar cases like ep.167 when she couldn't find Kazuha. Was really sad to see Ran used in that way, hiding in a garage, with her back turned, in a little kid position, and crying her eyes out when it previous cases she would be hunting down for the missing person(to the point of exhaustion) or looking for someone to help regardless if there was a demon/ghost involved.

Ran did search for Kazuha for a bit, though, so I don't think she was supposed to be "hiding". I do think she was supposed to have given up the search, at least temporarily, to wallow in guilt, though. Paralysis from guilt and fear of making things worse, despite a person's actual competence, actually fits someone with an alcoholic parent and a broken home. Not that I'm sure Aoyama actually intends that characterization, but this fits her behavior in when she's {ep 288/volume 35}

Spoiler:

guilt-tripping about saving a murderer and sending Shin'ichi after the Sharon's handkerchief in episode 288

and her fear of making things worse {ep 443-444/volume 42}

Spoiler:

for Aya in episode 444. I'm hoping she learned something from Jodie's lesson in 443-444, and didn't just write it off after Shin'ichi was "there for her" anyway.

Sometimes the anime does embellish Ran's fear. She wasn't shown {ep. 174/volume 23, 26}

Spoiler:

running around the ship scared out of her wits in the manga version of the story adapted by episode 174. While she might have been telling the truth when she tells Conan that she was afraid, that was probably more to cover for treating him as more than a little brother. She was supposed to be suspicious of him being Shin'ichi at the time (and probably closer to belief than suspicion again, by that time).

[TheBlind]

Don't worry, Ran is totally stupid for the cases.

No se preocupen, Total Ran es estupida para los casos.

Yeah, I don't agree that Ran is truly stupid for it seems like more and more that her personality is "adapted" for the purpose of each individual case. Which is why you having acting in so many different ways in similar cases like ep.167 when she couldn't find Kazuha. Was really sad to see Ran used in that way, hiding in a garage, with her back turned, in a little kid position, and crying her eyes out when it previous cases she would be hunting down for the missing person(to the point of exhaustion) or looking for someone to help regardless if there was a demon/ghost involved.

Ran did search for Kazuha for a bit, though, so I don't think she was supposed to be "hiding". I do think she was supposed to have given up the search, at least temporarily, to wallow in guilt, though. Paralysis from guilt and fear of making things worse, despite a person's actual competence, actually fits someone with an alcoholic parent and a broken home. Not that I'm sure Aoyama actually intends that characterization, but this fits her behavior in when she's {ep 288/volume 35}

Spoiler:

guilt-tripping about saving a murderer and sending Shin'ichi after the Sharon's handkerchief in episode 288

and her fear of making things worse {ep 443-444/volume 42}

Spoiler:

for Aya in episode 444. I'm hoping she learned something from Jodie's lesson in 443-444, and didn't just write it off after Shin'ichi was "there for her" anyway.

Sometimes the anime does embellish Ran's fear. She wasn't shown {ep. 174/volume 23, 26}

Spoiler:

running around the ship scared out of her wits in the manga version of the story adapted by episode 174. While she might have been telling the truth when she tells Conan that she was afraid, that was probably more to cover for treating him as more than a little brother. She was supposed to be suspicious of him being Shin'ichi at the time (and probably closer to belief than suspicion again, by that time).

Ran did search for Kazuha but after they cut back to Mouri and the gang, Ran was hiding. There was no gray area to say "oh maybe she was looking for Kazuha in that spot or she found a clue" because she was in between a truck and wall with her back turned to the truck(the outside). So I think they made it clear she was hiding from something(and really did not want to be found) since Mouri would of not seen her(due to her also squatting, something typical with young children in that situation) if it wasn't for her whimpering.

The guilt aspect you brought in does introduce a point, but it also stays with Ran being adapted for each case. In ep.288 she saved a murdered and sent Shinichi to a warehouse with a murder on the loose but yet the guilt didn't freeze her or make her break down and she was mentally younger. She was thinking about it, but she was barely crying, and after being informed about the situation by Akai, she went to look for Shinichi knowing the danger. This is why it was out of character and sad to see Ran acting the way she did in ep.167. Like I said in my first post, normal Ran would be crying her eyes out and be near exhaustion looking for Kazuha and when it proved that she could not find her, she would look for anyone to help her. The one thing I personally think she wouldn't do was what she did, give up easily and hid due to a combination of fear(ghost...) and guilt, while she knew someone was in danger.

despite a person's actual competence, actually fits someone with an alcoholic parent and a broken home.

From the top of my head, I can't recall any other situation where Ran has broken down like ep.167 when someone was in danger and she was not in immediate danger herself. So that reason isn't really valid plus...it's anime. Parenting actually affecting children(when not necessary) is crazy talk.


As for 443-444, Did you mean 343-344?(happens to the best of us  ). I really don't see how 343-344 applies here since no one was in immediate danger, it was only a showcase of Ran accomplishing a case without Shinichi solving it for her. I personally think this case was a bit of a step back due to Ran solving other cases herself without breaking down in tears like this one, though i'll just give that to this one being a bit harder than her previous cases.

[Nyarl]

Ran did search for Kazuha but after they cut back to Mouri and the gang, Ran was hiding. There was no gray area to say "oh maybe she was looking for Kazuha in that spot or she found a clue" because she was in between a truck and wall with her back turned to the truck(the outside). So I think they made it clear she was hiding from something(and really did not want to be found) since Mouri would of not seen her(due to her also squatting, something typical with young children in that situation) if it wasn't for her whimpering.

Ran hadn't seen the first murder scene, and she hadn't heard much of the spider legend since Conan didn't explain when she asked about it. The squat itself looks like something the anime added (her outline was mirror level when Kogoro spotted her in the manga (not sure if I should post links to the volumes DCTP has pulled, its about page 12 of vol25ch6file348248  )). She didn't mention being afraid (something she's not particularly shy about admitting in other stories). So, I'll stick with my interpretation that she stopped to cry about putting Kazuha in danger, not to hide (neither interpretation really puts her in a favorable light).

Aoyama has changed her characterization, though, and not in the sense of logically progressive "character development". Ran wasn't even monster/ghost phobic before Aoyama made her do all the things one shouldn't do in horror movies in volume 5, in just the previous volume she forced the others to investigate a supposed haunting!

However, I think he's been pretty consistent since volume 10 or so, and I can see Ran pausing for a guilt trip, since saving Kazhua wasn't a matter simple instinct. How long would Ran have paused on the stairs guilt tripping here if she hadn't heard what she thought was Shin'ichi? (Heh, though, she was sick on top of everything else, another excuse she doesn't have in the Tottori Spider case.)

By the way, what particular circumstance do you have in mind to compare this story with? (I suspect Ran wasn't feeling quite so guilty, or you're remembering an anime original.)

ETA:

I personally think this case was a bit of a step back due to Ran solving other cases herself without breaking down in tears like this one, though i'll just give that to this one being a bit harder than her previous cases.

This is the only manga canon case I can remember that she's actually solved for herself. She's made important observations and taken the lead in investigation in a couple of cases, but she's never really solved anything else (as far as we know, heh, maybe she's solved a few but never had the confidence to reveal her deduction). I think the anime originals portray her as more confident and less emotionally vulnerable than Aoyama intends her to be, and that's some of the reason she seems to be erratically characterized.

[TheBlind]

Ran hadn't seen the first murder scene, and she hadn't heard much of the spider legend since Conan didn't explain when she asked about it. The squat itself looks like something the anime added (her outline was mirror level when Kogoro spotted her in the manga (not sure if I should post links to the volumes DCTP has pulled, its about page 12 of vol25ch6file348248  Wink )). She didn't mention being afraid (something she's not particularly shy about admitting in other stories). So, I'll stick with my interpretation that she stopped to cry about putting Kazuha in danger, not to hide (neither interpretation really puts her in a favorable light).

Not Spoilers, just wanted to hide my huge post.

Spoiler:

Ran was squatting in the manga as well. She was not next to the truck but in front of it, in between it and a wall. If we use Heiji, who was shown to be taller than the mirror(reached his chest) at the start of the case and add depth perception from where Mouri was standing, it is reasonable to think she was squatting and that was the case(anime). I think you want to add something that isn't there for Ran's sake.

I personally believe that Gosho fully intended to portray a weak Ran for whatever reason(maybe girly girls where the in thing during this time or Japanese fans complained Ran wasn't being girly enough) and he did that. Ran was in garage with no light, in between a truck and wall with her back turned to the outside. It is hard to imagine that she was actually searching in between a truck and wall when she had no flashlight and actually decided to move in between them during her search. Anything she could not see from the side would of not been more visible if she moved in between them(actually would of been more difficult due to now less light from the outside was reaching her current spot) which means she had no purpose to be in that spot if she was indeed conducting a search. Also if you are going to search a place like that, you would generally put your back against the wall but Ran was found in the oppiste direction squatting.

If Gosho wanted to portray a Ran near breaking point due to guilt he could of easily done it in many different and better ways. Such as have Ran on her knees in the middle of the rain for the gang to find or have her near the entrance of the garage facing the outside. He could of even just had her go back to the front of her room, sit their, and begin crying calling Kazuha's name where the gang could of spotted her.

I believe what happened(out of character) was that Ran began searching for Kazuha and when her search became fruitless and she could not find anyone else during her search, she panicked(at this point she got to the garage) and hid in the nearest area hoping for someone to help her, be it Shinchi/Heiji/Mouri.

However, I think he's been pretty consistent since volume 10 or so, and I can see Ran pausing for a guilt trip, since saving Kazhua wasn't a matter simple instinct.

It was a matter of simple instinct, if someone you know goes missing in a situation you know is dangerous(which it was) you first instinct is to search for that person(which she did) then you follow by getting help(which she did not do). A guilt trip would be one of the last things to happen unless you have already given up the search(which I believe she did but not permanently) and are hoping for some outside force to come to your aid.

By the way, what particular circumstance do you have in mind to compare this story with? (I suspect Ran wasn't feeling quite so guilty, or you're remembering an anime original.)

I'm not following you here. I think the series has established how will Ran act in a situation anyone she cares about is in danger. Or are you saying that Ran's actions compared to the rest(saving a murder,acting as a shield, breaking through a car window to stop a "suspect" that might of hurt her new friend, breaking another window in a car heading down a cliff to save a friend, saving an old man she just met once,rushing into a place she has not idea if it's dangerous to save someone she doesn't even know but has to because they might die soon, and etc.) actually make sense to you logically?

Ran is a girl scout all around and you do not act in the extreme Ran acted in this case but are willingly to do some of the mentioned above(I know I missed a lot) without it being out of character. Unless you can point me to another case where Ran has completely broken down like in 167 when someone was in immediate danger.

This is the only manga canon case I can remember that she's actually solved for herself.

This one you got me since I was indirectly referring to anime original episode 196 - The Invisible Weapon, Ran's First Investigation. It showed a Ran that still wasn't so sure of her deduction and was asking for help but it gave her a bit more confidence than she had in 344 where she was practically begging for Shinichi to call to tell her if she was right or wrong. I also wanted to use the Night Baron Murder Case, but that wouldn't of been a direct comparison.

[tera]

It showed a Ran that still wasn't so sure of her deduction and was asking for help but it gave her a bit more confidence than she had in 344 where she was practically begging for Shinichi to call to tell her if she was right or wrong.

Also, like in that case where she used the earring, there are repercussions to giving a fake deduction - loss of reputation/trust, grudges from the people you've "slandered," etc - I think people (not you in particular, but w/r/t Ran crying or being afraid a lot) are a little harsh and forgetting that Ran is a "normal" person. I mean, if I were in that situation with episode 344 and had to help a friend, I probably would have given up before figuring out such a weird scenario.

Regarding 167, Ran can be brave/karate-ish when she has someone to protect, but if she doesn't know where that person is, it's sort of hard to keep them from getting killed. If you want another example of when Ran "breaks down," it's pretty much whenever she thinks about Shinichi, because she doesn't know where he is and she has a bad feeling he's in danger... With Kazuha, I think the thing that's upsetting to her is that IF she hadn't left Kazuha, Kazuha might not have been attacked. So she feels she COULD have protected her, but made a mistake, more or less.

[TheBlind]

It showed a Ran that still wasn't so sure of her deduction and was asking for help but it gave her a bit more confidence than she had in 344 where she was practically begging for Shinichi to call to tell her if she was right or wrong.

Also, like in that case where she used the earring, there are repercussions to giving a fake deduction - loss of reputation/trust, grudges from the people you've "slandered," etc - I think people (not you in particular, but w/r/t Ran crying or being afraid a lot) are a little harsh and forgetting that Ran is a "normal" person. I mean, if I were in that situation with episode 344 and had to help a friend, I probably would have given up before figuring out such a weird scenario.

I think we are missing two key things.
1- Ran had mostly figured out what happened herself
2- This case was fool proof in which an innocent person could not get blamed

No one was in immediate danger and no one could be inappropriately blamed with the given solution. Sonoko and Ran where throwing out theories in front of the store Manager and he was listening patiently until the store got busy. So she didn't need to react the way she did hoping for Shinichi to call to prove her deduction when she could of just gone in and tried to prove it herself. The theory was fool proof due to it needing the culprit or evidence that the culprit was in that place. The worse that would of happened would be Ran getting laughed at if nothing was there and the manager removing her from the store again(and I know Ran wouldn't let something trivial as getting embarrassed to stop her from helping a friend). It just felt like it was yet again another opportunity to show off Ran's dependency on Shinichi(and it sucks to see Ran being used like that).

Which is why I liked The Invisible Weapon, Ran's First Investigation and The Night Baron Murder Case where she stood on her own just using flashbacks of growing up experiences she got with Shinichi to give her the confidence than just urging for another Shinichi bail out.

Regarding 167, Ran can be brave/karate-ish when she has someone to protect, but if she doesn't know where that person is, it's sort of hard to keep them from getting killed. If you want another example of when Ran "breaks down," it's pretty much whenever she thinks about Shinichi, because she doesn't know where he is and she has a bad feeling he's in danger... With Kazuha, I think the thing that's upsetting to her is that IF she hadn't left Kazuha, Kazuha might not have been attacked. So she feels she COULD have protected her, but made a mistake, more or less.

That is not a very good example. In Shinichi's case, Ran has no idea where he is so when she feels he is in danger, she does what most would do and start crying. She cannot help him herself, she cannot ask anyone to help him, and at one point she could not even contact him. So it's understandable to feel like you are in a cage in that situation where in episode 167 none of that was present. She could of kept searching, found Heiji,Mouri,Conan, or any other person for help, or scream at the top of her lungs for help. Like I said so many things could and would of happened before a person broke down and hid in that situation unless you intentionally wanted to portray them as fragile, which is what I think Gosho intended(again sucks to see my loveable Ran being portrayed like that to satisfy certain fans or a trend).