Discussion Thread: Detective Conan Files 913-917

[MoonRaven]

here is a lay out of the continuity of phone calls and text messages from this case
Note: The cell phone that Komei pulled from Kano's body is not the cell phone
that we see him holding as he is about to be confronted by the person with the rope

Spoiler:

[Takeda's body is discovered]
At headquarters Yamato receives a text from unknown sender and leaves police HQ
(Yamato is shown holding a flip phone)
Supposedly either Saegusa or Akiyama sent a text to Yamato to tell him Kano had gone home
Supposedly Kano calls Yamato 10 times with no answer
Kano's exact words while typing on his phone are "I need to hurry and relay this information to everyone"
(Kano is shown holding a smart phone)
[Kano dies] - a text message from Bishamonten is sent from Kano's phone to Yamato
Yamato calls Komei because he can't get in contact with Kano
(Komei is shown holding a smart phone)

[Kano's body is discovered]
Yamato reads out the text he received from Kano's phone
(Yamato still has his flip phone)
A cell phone is found on Kano's body with a text from Takeda's phone
(Komei holds the phone up and it is a flip phone)
Back at police HQ Akiyama receives a text from an unknown number and leaves
(Akiyama is shown holding a smart phone)
Saegusa calls Komei in a panic because he thinks Akiyama is in danger
(Saegusa is shown holding a flip phone)

[Akiyama dies in front of witnesses]
Uehara uses her phone to call Akiyama's phone to find it
(Uehara is shown holding a flip phone)
Akiyama's phone is discovered (looks the same as the one he was holding earlier)
They find a text on Akiyama's phone that says it is from Yamato
Yamato's number was supposedly black listed
In the car Uehara shows Conan her phone with names in it
Komei receives an odd text that says it is from Yamato


Takeda - Unknown phone
Yamato - Flip phone
Komei - Smart phone
Uehara - Flip phone
Saegusa - Flip phone
Akiyama - Smart phone
Kano - Smart phone(alive), Flip phone (dead)
Kuroda - Unknown phone

Wow, that's interesting! I wonder what actually is going on...

[jimmy_kud0_tv2]

Another interesting thing to note is that Komei now has a smart phone, where as in the Red Wall case he had a flip phone. In the two appearances he made in between that case and this one he does not pull out his phone, meaning that it is hard to place when he got it. Conan has also switched to a smart phone since the Red Wall case as well, so this could just be Gosho updating random technology, but why just update Komei's phone out of the trio of Nagano detectives ?

[MoonRaven]

Another interesting thing to note is that Komei now has a smart phone, where as in the Red Wall case he had a flip phone. In the two appearances he made in between that case and this one he does not pull out his phone, meaning that it is hard to place when he got it. Conan has also switched to a smart phone since the Red Wall case as well, so this could just be Gosho updating random technology, but why just update Komei's phone out of the trio of Nagano detectives ?

Because there's no way Yamato would ever understand how to use a smart phone and Yui doesn't want him to feel bad about it?

[jimmy_kud0_tv2]

I'm going to put my guess at the full solution of the mystery here in a seperate post than my last two because it doesn't really relate to them enough to go back and edit it into them.

Putting together some things I have noticed and somethings that other people have noticed
hopefully this case will only be two more chapters and fit this ending somehow....

Spoiler:

It seems a bit suspicious that the body of Takeda would have been placed in a location that Yamato is known to frequent. This information could easily be something known to all of the Nagano police in this division. Given the fact that Yamato says he did not go there that day, he also doesn't have any form of alibi to say where he was. This is one of the biggest things that the may have not counted on unless they have the records of the case from 9 years ago and know that today was the anniversary of the death of his childhood playmate. If he did know this, I bet he also knew about the 80 year old grandmother who is still alive and no doubt in either a hospital or a nursing home. This creates a highly likely chance that Yamato might visit her, which would put him in a position that would require that he turns his cell phone off. Usually you are told to turn your phone off if you visit a hospital.

Skipping to the last murder, the rope around Akiyama's neck is a little bit too thick to make a clean break like we see at the end of chapter 915 and beginning of 916. Its not piano wire, the wound would not be that flat edged. It almost looks like it was cut with precision with a sword......

Why was the body of Takeda burned if it was going to be left at the same location as its head? If the killer had plenty of time to string up the head, he would have also had the time to make sure that he would have burned the body enough to not allow a DNA match to occur.... however a bit of the left shoe was left un-burned, just enough to for the police to come to the conclusion that the pile of ashes must indeed be Takeda.... Almost as if it was done on purpose...

What if the pile of ashes found near Takeda's head was not his body, but something else that was burned with part of a shoe left behind for DNA match purposes? What if the killer then moved Takeda's body to a different location and dressed the body in different clothing? (both Takeda's death and Akiyama's death occur at Mt. Saijo) Then he just had to get himself to that location, dressed in similar enough clothing to the body and pull off one last trick. I'd venture to say that the motive for all of this has to do with the shooting case from half a year ago. During this time, he would have been part of Takeda's squad...

Kano's death was different. Kano was killed because he started asking questions and looking into the past. Everyone knows that Kano keeps records at his house, thats just the kind of person he is. Obviously he had to be dealt with in the same way as the parents of the bank robber were. Kano needed to be hung. Two separate pieces of rope would do it. Yamato was the one who had climbed up on a chair to save the parents of the bank robber, he undoubtedly would be the one who would do the same this time, and touch only the top half of the rope in order to remove it.

However if Yamato's hand prints were found on the bottom half of the rope, it would look like Yamato had been the one to strangle Kano. He decided that he needed to distract everyone. He sent a message from Takeda's phone, which he still has with him, to a phone that he placed on Kano's body. This distracted everyone and allowed him to alter the rope that was touching Kano's throat. If you really look at the rope around Kano's neck, the two individual pieces of rope are not actually connected, and through a slight of hand, they can be switched around. Then you just have to say something like "Hey doesn't that rope look weird" and make Yamato touch what he thinks is the same top part of the rope. Now his finger prints are on both halves. This makes Yamato look even more guilty.

But here is the best part. Kuroda realized that the killer was trying to frame Yamato from the very beginning and figured out the trick with the ashes and the missing body. He confirmed it by saying that "I doubt that we will ever be able to confirm that it is Takeda's body" which prompted the CSI man to explain the surviving shoe and toe". Ever since then he has been using scare tactics to keep people on edge because he still didn't have enough evidence to prove anything or even to identify a killer. After hearing later that some one claims to have spotted Yamato at the bridge, he knew that Yamato needed to disappear in order to make the killer mess up. ....After Uehara, Akiyama, and Saegusa get far enough away he says to Komei, "Starting from now, I need you to keep an eye on Kansuke.....[anniversary comment] ... do you know what I am saying?" This was literally him telling Komei to put Yamato somewhere that would keep him from trouble..... Komei then delivered that same message to Yamato (after Kano's body was found) through the comment about "Black sheep" Kansuke, its YOU, a black sheep (the TIRE) can wreak havoc within the flock (with in the CAR). Telling Yamato to put the spare tire inside the car into the back seat and then climb into the trunk of the car. This event gives Yamato a solid alibi for what we see occur at the end of chapter 915. Yamato could not possibly do anything at the location of Mt. Saijo as he was in the trunk of a car at the police station when Akiyama left. When they got to Mt. Saijo and witnessed the "death" of Akiyama they decided to leave the body there rather than to investigate it. On their way to leave, Kuroda loudly announces that Saegusa has to go with him because there is a tire in the seat of the back of Komei's car, and that there is no way EVER that Yamato would stay at Mt. Saijo. This was the cue for Yamato to jump out of the trunk and return the tire to its original place, as well as stay at Mt. Saijo and follow the still alive Akiyama. I believe that in chapter 917 which will be out in Japan some time around Jan 26-29th... we will see Saegusa check Komei's car and find that the trunk is empty except for the spare tire. Then we will see Yamato go back to the original crime scene and be confronted by a shadowy figure that will turn out to be Akiyama. Komei may then come to his rescue as a result of the text message Yamato sent him at the end of 916.

Saegusa is innocent.... and Kuroda is awesome..... I didn't think I'd be saying that when I originally read through the first 3 chapters. I look forward to what ever conclusion comes our way.

I might also be able to explain the cell phone thing, I'm typing it up at the moment so it will appear in this box

Spoiler:

So I assume that the post that Black Demon made on the previous page is accurate information. Given that information we know that in the case of the bank robbery from half a year ago... The person Takeda killed, was seen talking on a cell phone to a another person. This person has not been identified. They mention something about "the meaning of the gun and the X" which I still haven't figured out.... but Imagine for a moment that the person on the other end of that call is Akiyama, who has one phone. We also know that the phone belonging to the person who got killed was lost. Now Akiyama has two phones. THEN when Akiyama killes Takeda he now has three phones.... Then he realizes that Kano may have discovered his identity and goes to kill him. He takes Kano's smart phone and replaces it with the flip phone he stole from the bank robber person. Meaning now he has His phone, Takeda's phone and Kano's phone. He then texts the Bishamonten message from Kano's phone to Yamato. Later when they are all gathered at Kano's house standing over the body, he can covertly send a message from Takeda's phone to the phone that he left on Kano's body, in order to pull off the rope trick I mentioned above. Later at the police station he can send a message from Takeda's phone to His own phone, pretending to be Yamato. He also black listed Yamato's number on his phone to make Yamato look even more suspicious. Then he left his phone to be found with a mysterious message from Yamato that says its from Takeda's phone. Now that he is "dead" he still has Kano's actual phone and Takeda's phone and can still target Saegusa or Yamato.

Things that still need figuring out

Spoiler:

The meaning of the Gun and X
What was burned in place of Takeda's body at the first scene
What trick could Akiyama use to survive this death?

[Chekhov MacGuffin]

Copypasta from Detective Conan World.

Here is what I think is going on, but take it with a grain of salt because I don't have the full evidence organized to back this yet. I am only going to cover up to 915 because I haven’t paid much attention to the spoilers.

Roughly, Kuroda Hyoue is the murderer, but he isn't the actual Kuroda Hyoue. Kuroda Hyoue who got in an accident 10 years ago and put into a coma is currently dead (maybe). The real Kuroda Hyoue's body was swapped with that of the either Kansuke's childhood friend or the bank robber for reasons I don't know yet by someone I am not sure of but strongly suspect is Takeda based on the conversation with the murderer at the beginning of 913.

As for evidence Kuroda Hyoue is the murderer:
• Kuroda Hyoue is the best manipulation position. He orders the other police around, and they inform him of his whereabouts. I am pretty sure being able to make sure the suspects are in the right place at the right time is necessary for these murders to work. (Will work out the details of this later) He also has first access to the crime scene.
• It seems strange how subdued the reaction is at the station to the murdered officers. When a police officer was suspect at the Tokyo met, it was tense from the bottom to the top of the ranks. Has Kuroda being keeping his superiors abreast of the situation?
• Kuroda Hyoue seems to be letting Kansuke run around freely while suspecting him.
• I am still a little fuzzy on the timeline, but I don't think he has a firm alibi for any of the crimes.

I don't have any direct evidence that Kuroda Hyoue is one of the suspects from the past, but it's a pretty strong hunch based on the information we were given. The swap is possible because Hyoue's face was bandaged so that people and even the nurses weren't really clear what he looked like. It was noted that he seems really different, he also looks different, and the memory loss gives him an excuse to cover for knowledge inconstancies. It was also a point that the coroner said the two dead suspects were both criminals. The rule of no useless information seems to be standard for a lot of Gosho cases – why were we given so much info about Kuroda's hospital stay situation and how much he has changed?

The rope used to hang Kano both feels weird and looks weird according to both Kansuke and Akiyama. It definitely looks weird because it was made of multiple short segments tied into loops (odd for someone doing a hanging not to use a single stretch), but that doesn’t explain the feels weird part. It occurs to me the rope might have been cut from the stretchy rope used for rehabilitating legs and knees – something Kansuke would have, use, and have his fingerprints all over. That would also explain the loops because rehabilitation ropes for legs are only so long, so you will need several segments. If Kansuke's rehabilitation ropes went missing, it would explain why he wasn't practicing that morning at the scene of the crime.

Also a few other notes:

Morofushi is pretending to be unfriendly with Kansuke and act like he is not Kansuke's childhood friend. I suspect this is so that so he can be trusted by Kuroda and the other suspects.

I suspect the Woodpecker gang is a group of police which cooperates with thieves in exchange for bribes. They tip off gangs to upcoming investigations or help them commit crimes. I suspect the robber group mentioned earlier in this case was tipped off to the upcoming raid on their safehouse. Also I believe the woodpeckers are Akiyama, Saegusa, Kano, Takeda, and possibly the original Kuroda Hyoue, and the bank robber. The culprit who says there are three woodpeckers left probably counts Kansuke and Saegusa, but who is the last one? It might be Kuroda Hyoue.

[unclesporkums]

Very interesting theory, Chek! Sort of reminds me of the original novel version of the James Bond story, Moonraker, where a Nazi posed as an injured British soldier and used his claim of memory loss and similar injures to convinced those around him that he was said soldier.

[Touichi Kuroba]

Let's See.I haven't read any of the 916 spoilers or the file yet, but here's what I think

For whatever reason, Kuroda was replaced by someone(I think that scene in 914/915 where both of them(Kuroda and Kansuke)say that they would be very hard for someone to mistake)suggests that Kuroda is actually Kan-chan's childhood friend.Though I don't believe this to be the case, it might be possible that Kuroda is RUM who was switched with the real Kuroda for a mole in the police(he can't be the killer if this was the case).

Theory about why Kansuke didn't want to be with Takeda-

Spoiler:

It happens during the case of the shooting of Kan-chan's childhood friend.Kansuke suggests the use of the woodpecker startegy(Just like Kansuke Yamamoto in the Battle of Kawanakajima)The strategy is successful and they are able to corner his friend.Here, his friend starts shooting like a lunatic, compelling Takeda to shoot him Kansuke is not happy with this, as the plan was to capture him, thus he leaves Takeda's section and comes to the section he is now

[jimmy_kud0_tv2]

I think I know how Yamato's fingerprints got on both the upper and lower pieces of rope.

Spoiler:

In the first image we see Yamato only touching the top rope that is attached to the lamp

Then there is a mysterious text sent to a phone found on Kano's body and Akiyama reaches down and messes with the rope
Explanation of Rope switching places : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JQW3LC1 ... e=youtu.be
If he were to pull on the rope like this, it would switch the ropes places and have his fingerprints on the bottom rope

All Akiyama would have to do then is prompt Yamato to touch the rope again by pointing at it and saying that it is strange...

[BraveHeart]

Spoiler:

The meaning of the Gun and X
What was burned in place of Takeda's body at the first scene
What trick could Akiyama use to survive this death?

I think I might have some ideas about the latter two questions.

Spoiler:

Akiyama was holding the rope around his neck with his hands. He could've cut them apart in advance and pretended to be strangled. After the car fell, he probably used a black parachute or something hidden under the car to get down safety. Three reason that no one saw it are because the area was dark, Conan and the rest were focusing on his words about cellphone, and they're shocked by the corpse on the branch. As for the body in the first scene, it's probably one of the robbers.

[alphajjc]

Let's See.I haven't read any of the 916 spoilers or the file yet, but here's what I think

For whatever reason, Kuroda was replaced by someone(I think that scene in 914/915 where both of them(Kuroda and Kansuke)say that they would be very hard for someone to mistake)suggests that Kuroda is actually Kan-chan's childhood friend.Though I don't believe this to be the case, it might be possible that Kuroda is RUM who was switched with the real Kuroda for a mole in the police(he can't be the killer if this was the case).

Theory about why Kansuke didn't want to be with Takeda-

Spoiler:

It happens during the case of the shooting of Kan-chan's childhood friend.Kansuke suggests the use of the woodpecker startegy(Just like Kansuke Yamamoto in the Battle of Kawanakajima)The strategy is successful and they are able to corner his friend.Here, his friend starts shooting like a lunatic, compelling Takeda to shoot him Kansuke is not happy with this, as the plan was to capture him, thus he leaves Takeda's section and comes to the section he is now

I finally saw the file. Its funny how when Koruda made his Sleeping Kogoro comment to Conan he held his own wrist while doing it as if to indicate his wrist watch stun gun.

[jimmy_kud0_tv2]

Let's See.I haven't read any of the 916 spoilers or the file yet, but here's what I think

For whatever reason, Kuroda was replaced by someone(I think that scene in 914/915 where both of them(Kuroda and Kansuke)say that they would be very hard for someone to mistake)suggests that Kuroda is actually Kan-chan's childhood friend.Though I don't believe this to be the case, it might be possible that Kuroda is RUM who was switched with the real Kuroda for a mole in the police(he can't be the killer if this was the case).

Theory about why Kansuke didn't want to be with Takeda-

Spoiler:

It happens during the case of the shooting of Kan-chan's childhood friend.Kansuke suggests the use of the woodpecker startegy(Just like Kansuke Yamamoto in the Battle of Kawanakajima)The strategy is successful and they are able to corner his friend.Here, his friend starts shooting like a lunatic, compelling Takeda to shoot him Kansuke is not happy with this, as the plan was to capture him, thus he leaves Takeda's section and comes to the section he is now

I finally saw the file. Its funny how when Koruda made his Sleeping Kogoro comment to Conan he held his own wrist while doing it as if to indicate his wrist watch stun gun.

Thats probably just him putting on gloves, you see Koumei do the same thing about a page or two back. Kuroda needs gloves before he can pick up Akiyama's phone because its evidence.

[jimmy_kud0_tv2]

wellllll, the whole case got seemingly wrapped up in one chapter

and the killer is ......

Spoiler:

Akiyama

[SilverBullet-sama]

wellllll, the whole case got seemingly wrapped up in one chapter

and the killer is ......

Spoiler:

Akiyama

Has a chapter been published already? Can you share a link (Japanese)?

[jimmy_kud0_tv2]

wellllll, the whole case got seemingly wrapped up in one chapter

and the killer is ......

Spoiler:

Akiyama

Has a chapter been published already? Can you share a link (Japanese)?

We aren't allowed to share links to full scans
Also, usually what happens is that it is translated into chinese and uploaded
and the Japanese gets uploaded much later, so you might not be able to find it like that for a while

[unclesporkums]

Spoiler:

Looks like they're going to draw the "who is RUM?" suspicion a little/much longer, then.