The Truth About the Drug

[Shuusgirl]

Yeah, I thought Haibara could hear it too, because she knew when to lean back on her pedestal. I'm curious why Gin would use an experimental poison and then not stick around, though.

Yea, that's rather weird. When BO was introduced for the first time, it doesn't seem they are that indomitable and strong, so we didn't suspect that irregularity. But now, as BO evolved into a strong and discreet organisation, we realized that it was an elementary mistake for not having anyone to stick around.

Oh well, 16 years is long enough to change an organization though...

haha, it's true.  Also, I wonder if Gosho would have written it differently now that he's a better writer.  That's what makes that whole thing with Gin puzzling.  Is Gin being careless because it's a plot device, or is it just Gosho's lack of experience?

It's possible it's neither. Remember the place was practically swarming with police, or at least it was in Gin's opinion, which was the reason the poison was used as opposed to a gun. Neither Gin or Vodka has silencers for their gun that we are aware of and even if they had say a knife, for example, it would leave too great a mess for them to clean up before the police get wind of it. I doubt you really could kill someone with sharp force trauma very quietly.

That's a good point, I totally forgot about the police being there.  That would also be why Gin didn't stick around--didn't want to be remembered or connected in any way with the dead boy on the grass.

[mangaluva]

Yeah, I thought Haibara could hear it too, because she knew when to lean back on her pedestal. I'm curious why Gin would use an experimental poison and then not stick around, though.

Yea, that's rather weird. When BO was introduced for the first time, it doesn't seem they are that indomitable and strong, so we didn't suspect that irregularity. But now, as BO evolved into a strong and discreet organisation, we realized that it was an elementary mistake for not having anyone to stick around.

Oh well, 16 years is long enough to change an organization though...

haha, it's true.  Also, I wonder if Gosho would have written it differently now that he's a better writer.  That's what makes that whole thing with Gin puzzling.  Is Gin being careless because it's a plot device, or is it just Gosho's lack of experience?

It's possible it's neither. Remember the place was practically swarming with police, or at least it was in Gin's opinion, which was the reason the poison was used as opposed to a gun. Neither Gin or Vodka has silencers for their gun that we are aware of and even if they had say a knife, for example, it would leave too great a mess for them to clean up before the police get wind of it. I doubt you really could kill someone with sharp force trauma very quietly.

That's a good point, I totally forgot about the police being there.  That would also be why Gin didn't stick around--didn't want to be remembered or connected in any way with the dead boy on the grass.

Both Gin and Vodka were in a rush to get the hell out of there before one of the cops combing the area spotted them. They gave him the poison because it would (theoretically) kill him quicker and faster than Vodka's gun, and there was no indication that either of them had a knife (though I wouldn't put it past Gin, but if they left the knife at the scene it would be traceable and if they took it with them and, for whatever reason, were stopped or found to have a bloody knife in their pocket, it would be trouble). Gotta wonder what happened to that lead pipe Gin had. He didn't seem to be wearing gloves.

Actually, I have to wonder why Gin was carrying a case full of experimental poison. He didn't seem to have any other poisons on him, otherwise surely he would have used one of them over an experimental one with unknown effects? It would probably be obvious that Shinichi was murdered anyway; Otherwise healthy teenagers do not generally drop dead in a random back alley, and the head wound wouldn't help divert suspicion. I get the impression he was probably meant to drop it off somewhere or was moving it about. It would be interesting if Shinichi ever had a chance to go back and track what else Gin was up to that day.

[Suutashi]

Yeah, I thought Haibara could hear it too, because she knew when to lean back on her pedestal. I'm curious why Gin would use an experimental poison and then not stick around, though.

Yea, that's rather weird. When BO was introduced for the first time, it doesn't seem they are that indomitable and strong, so we didn't suspect that irregularity. But now, as BO evolved into a strong and discreet organisation, we realized that it was an elementary mistake for not having anyone to stick around.

Oh well, 16 years is long enough to change an organization though...

haha, it's true.  Also, I wonder if Gosho would have written it differently now that he's a better writer.  That's what makes that whole thing with Gin puzzling.  Is Gin being careless because it's a plot device, or is it just Gosho's lack of experience?

It's possible it's neither. Remember the place was practically swarming with police, or at least it was in Gin's opinion, which was the reason the poison was used as opposed to a gun. Neither Gin or Vodka has silencers for their gun that we are aware of and even if they had say a knife, for example, it would leave too great a mess for them to clean up before the police get wind of it. I doubt you really could kill someone with sharp force trauma very quietly.

That's a good point, I totally forgot about the police being there.  That would also be why Gin didn't stick around--didn't want to be remembered or connected in any way with the dead boy on the grass.

Both Gin and Vodka were in a rush to get the hell out of there before one of the cops combing the area spotted them. They gave him the poison because it would (theoretically) kill him quicker and faster than Vodka's gun, and there was no indication that either of them had a knife (though I wouldn't put it past Gin, but if they left the knife at the scene it would be traceable and if they took it with them and, for whatever reason, were stopped or found to have a bloody knife in their pocket, it would be trouble). Gotta wonder what happened to that lead pipe Gin had. He didn't seem to be wearing gloves.

Actually, I have to wonder why Gin was carrying a case full of experimental poison. He didn't seem to have any other poisons on him, otherwise surely he would have used one of them over an experimental one with unknown effects? It would probably be obvious that Shinichi was murdered anyway; Otherwise healthy teenagers do not generally drop dead in a random back alley, and the head wound wouldn't help divert suspicion. I get the impression he was probably meant to drop it off somewhere or was moving it about. It would be interesting if Shinichi ever had a chance to go back and track what else Gin was up to that day.

I've been thinking about this over the last several months and I've wound up with more questions about this. I fee,l in a way, that Gin was, to a certain extent, way out of character during his first appearance. 1. The fact that Gin and Vodka were on the roller coaster in the first place. They claim they did it to confirm the man they were blackmailing was where he was supposed to be and was alone. But there were several different ways they could have assured this that would have been much better that they just didn't use.  They not only stood out like a sore thumb but they would have been delayed even without the murder case. The guy could have changed his mind long before they ever met up with him. 2. The fact that Gin used an experimental poison. First of all the stuff had never been tested on humans so there was no guarantee that it would have had the desired effect of killing without being detectable. For all we know it would have been no better than giving someone a multi-vitamin. Or it may have really been a deadly poison but it was detectable. 3. Gin used the APTX on someone who is very well known by both the public and by local law enforcement. (Actually the fact that Shinichi was even nearby in the first place should have a pretty good reason for Gin and Vodka to make some changes in their plans.)  Not a smart idea. I shouldn't have to explain that. Though I'm not saying that it's impossible for someone in the Org to kill someone who is very prominent in the eye of the public without getting caught. That's something that has been proven several times. But those times they had ways to cover their tracks. This time they really didn't have a way to do that and took a huge risk of the Organization being discovered. While Sherry did make two trips to look in on Shinichi's status she kept her mouth shut about him really being alive. However, it seems that she was the only one at the time who would have made the connection between the drug not killing him and how he had survived.  In conclusion, these are all huge risks Gin took during his first appearance that I can't see him making. We all know that Gin is very crafty, very intelligent and has a strong sense of loyalty to the Organization. I can't imagine him doing anything that would jeopardize the Black Organization's existence.

[Suutashi]

Both Gin and Vodka were in a rush to get the hell out of there before one of the cops combing the area spotted them. They gave him the poison because it would (theoretically) kill him quicker and faster than Vodka's gun, and there was no indication that either of them had a knife (though I wouldn't put it past Gin, but if they left the knife at the scene it would be traceable and if they took it with them and, for whatever reason, were stopped or found to have a bloody knife in their pocket, it would be trouble). Gotta wonder what happened to that lead pipe Gin had. He didn't seem to be wearing gloves.

I've been thinking about this over the last several months and I've wound up with more questions about this. I fee,l in a way, that Gin was, to a certain extent, way out of character during his first appearance. 1. The fact that Gin and Vodka were on the roller coaster in the first place.

common, even gin likes good old classic fun even if he's using his job as an excuse.

If he did he would have changed cloths and would have been riding the Ferris wheel.

[sstimson]

Both Gin and Vodka were in a rush to get the hell out of there before one of the cops combing the area spotted them. They gave him the poison because it would (theoretically) kill him quicker and faster than Vodka's gun, and there was no indication that either of them had a knife (though I wouldn't put it past Gin, but if they left the knife at the scene it would be traceable and if they took it with them and, for whatever reason, were stopped or found to have a bloody knife in their pocket, it would be trouble). Gotta wonder what happened to that lead pipe Gin had. He didn't seem to be wearing gloves.

I've been thinking about this over the last several months and I've wound up with more questions about this. I fee,l in a way, that Gin was, to a certain extent, way out of character during his first appearance. 1. The fact that Gin and Vodka were on the roller coaster in the first place.

Must disagree. He even said he was checking out the park, Likely for the later exchange.

Also remember at the park at the time of the exchange there are still a lot police around because of the murder. They can not kill anyone unless they do it quietly. The pill does that. A better question is 2 parts. 1) why bring a UNTESTED drug with them and 2) why use UNTESTED drug on the witness. I sure Gin could have quick and quiet choked Shinichi. Why take the chance of the drug not working.

He likely took the pipe with him. It would not be bloody as it was used to knock out not kill ( less force applied ).

Already too late for that. Gin ,for certain, was kept at the scene of the murder until the police were done with him.  So as I see it no chance to not be seen by them.

[Wakarimashita]

Gin was way out of character because, as Gosho stated in his interview, he didn't expect DC to last past the first volume. At first, DC was mostly humour-orientated (just look at the amount of comedy in the first chapters), but then as the chapters progressed  it started getting more serious (the case with Akemi in Volume 2 is already way darker) and that's when Gin's current personnality was built up.

[mangaluva]

Just a case of character evolution on the author's part, I suppose; maybe the reason that the manga's taking so long is that Aoyama's desperately trying to think up a good explanation for them being there and using the poison XD

[DaisukeKazamatsuri]

True, it HAS been sixteen/seventeen years since the manga started.  Aoyama-san might simply be trying to figure out exactly how he CAN end a series like this.  It's gone on so long, with (comparatively) minimal progress on the BO front, despite what's been done, and the series has such a huge fanbase that maybe he doesn't want to stop it.  Even Magic Kaito has been continued, with the few chapters here and there since the first three volumes, so perhaps Aoyama-san's trying to get as much profit out of it while he can.  I'm not complaining, I enjoy having new cases to try and pick apart, but it's hard to tell what an author's motives are on things like this.  Whatever his starting intentions were, he probably changed along the way.  Who knows?