Discussion Thread: Detective Conan Files 818-824 "Mystery Tr

Forum reserved for discussing specific points of the story—mostly from the manga. Be warned, these discussions will be current with the manga and will spoil many plot lines for anime-centric fans.
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blackribbon

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Re: Discussion Thread: Detective Conan Files 818+ "Mystery T

Post by blackribbon »

sonoci wrote:
I have to disagree with this (as usual when it comes up :P). Ran being a DoD is a stereotype created and flanderized by anime-only material like OVAs, movies, and fillers. Rarely in the manga is Ran actually in distress. I would like to stress this point as much as possible, especially in a manga related discussion topic
I agree completely. Hell, the very openings usually portray her as a Damsel in Distress, which makes me rather uncomfortable.

I've mentioned it in passing before, but now that I'm at home where I keep all my volumes, I'm going to make a list about "who saves whom" how often.

I thought about doing it the following way:
- there will be two categories, "saves" and "is saved"
- savings that occur due to resolving the mystery don't count. (Example: Conan saving that young girl in his first case as Conan does not count. However, Ran saving him afterwards counts.)
- Ambiguous cases will be pointed out.
- When Conan saves Ran or vice versa, there will be a special mention. (Same for Sato and Takagi.)

Would anyone be interested in that?
darkshadow

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Re: Discussion Thread: Detective Conan Files 818+ "Mystery T

Post by darkshadow »

Too much Ran talk. Not enough Mystery Train talk. -___-

To get back on track, Vermouth sends a text to Bourbon saying, "The rest can now go on as planned." What is their so-called "plan" on this Mystery Train?
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saorin
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Re: Discussion Thread: Detective Conan Files 818+ "Mystery T

Post by saorin »

@blackribbon: That would actually be PRETTY interesting, I dare say =D
conan/over/kudo wrote:
Tegari wrote: If DC would have only lasted few volumes, then my life would have been quite boring.
if DC only lasted a few volumes, i would have lived a life of lies reading one piece and bleach.


no offence to any bleach or one piece fans, its just i consider DC to be the top of the category.
I love Conan, one of my very first manga and anime, and I appreciate it. But I am of the opinion that One Piece is better at keeping the thing running - there IS character development after all and a red thread throughout the arcs. From my personal point of view, Oda has been doing a better job keeping the entirety of the series consistent so far withhout neglecting a majority of its characters. But I guess this is taking it a bit far off topic. =P
conan/over/kudo wrote:
saorin wrote: ...Ran needs to take some part in this finally. Not also for the sake of her position as a character but also for the sake of plot progression in general.
Some people might find her a nuisance or superfluous now, but let's face it: Gosho wrote her in in the first place, so we can't ditch her half-way. Gosho tends to neglect her, or at least her involvement, and this needs to be changed at some point - and this would be a good one. =D
ran is a damsel in distress who does karate and is really badass - shes more like a pivot for the story than a driving force, imo
I never said she's supposed to be a "driving force". But her role at the moment barely amounts to anything, which can't be ideal either.
sonoci wrote: @saorin: I think you missed my point xD' I'm not saying she shouldn't come in in this story - no, I wouldn't mind that - what I'm saying is that if she does, I'd like her to stay. In essence, I was actually agreeing with you. xD
No, you misunderstand. =D I never said YOU didn't want to be her in there. I said there are people who think that and I get the impression their number is big and even increasing which I find sad.
sonoci wrote: My point was that I don't want her to get involved and then go back to being uninvolved. When I said "either be involved or not" I meant it in a "Gosho, make up your mind rather than teasing us" sort of way.
Yes, and I agreed ~_~. What more can I say than "I wholeheartedly agree"? ;_;

sonoci wrote: Long story short: for a main heroine, Gosho handles Ran very clumsily, and when it comes to the important stuff, the way he handles her throughout the series makes it seem as if she's literally being thrown in just because she's a main character, rather than it feeling like she should be there. In this particular case, her curiosity is being handled better (than, say, the Shirigami arc) but if Gosho ends up dropping her back into the "know nothing at all" territory again after this, it would be a really bad choice IMO

I understand status quo and all of that, but I wish that Gosho would have actually taken some sort of initiative to make Ran more interesting when he could see that DC would be a long-runner. Her character really doesn't transition well as is. If only he hadn't almost completely dumped her karate  :-\
Yes!
sonoci wrote: I have to disagree with this (as usual when it comes up :P). Ran being a DoD is a stereotype created and flanderized by anime-only material like OVAs, movies, and fillers. Rarely in the manga is Ran actually in distress. I would like to stress this point as much as possible, especially in a manga related discussion topic
Yes²!

I don't think this was "too" off-topic, but I'm of course willing to let the topic drop here. ;) I guess the two of us mostly agree anyways.
Last edited by saorin on June 21st, 2012, 6:16 am, edited 1 time in total.
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mihai

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Re: Discussion Thread: Detective Conan Files 818+ "Mystery T

Post by mihai »

about Ran, I think now she should just need to see Conan deducting like a pro(Shinichi), to remember a simple DNA test could show her his true identity. She mentioned it clearly in chapter 794, page 9 how DNA analysis is amazing to be able to find out about a person's identity even if they changed their appearance and in our case body size as well :)

as for the Mystery Train case, the murderer was found and all it's left now is his motive and the BO plot
HeiseiHolmes

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Re: Discussion Thread: Detective Conan Files 818+ "Mystery T

Post by HeiseiHolmes »

Not only a "detective"... A detective you wish only excisted in novels said by Gin which means Bourbon is freakin smart as hell. :)
When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth".
Tegari
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Re: Discussion Thread: Detective Conan Files 818+ "Mystery T

Post by Tegari »

conan/over/kudo wrote:
Tegari wrote: If DC would have only lasted few volumes, then my life would have been quite boring.
if DC only lasted a few volumes, i would have lived a life of lies reading one piece and bleach.


no offence to any bleach or one piece fans, its just i consider DC to be the top of the category.
When I first started watching DC, then they were showing One Piece after DC on the TV.
I loved DC for its detective-ness. :3
saorin wrote: I love Conan, one of my very first manga and anime, and I appreciate it. But I am of the opinion that One Piece is better at keeping the thing running - there IS character development after all and a red thread throughout the arcs. From my personal point of view, Oda has been doing a better job keeping the entirety of the series consistent so far withhout neglecting a majority of its characters. But I guess this is taking it a bit far off topic. =P
One Piece does have better character development indeed and all the other things, but you just can't get enough DC. :3
Atleast I can't.
sonoci wrote: I too am one of the people believing that Yuusaku is not on the train.
Same here.
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Midi
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Re: Discussion Thread: Detective Conan Files 818+ "Mystery T

Post by Midi »

I come late to the party, and forgive me for not reading all the comments, so I apologise if someone has already discussed this but...

*throws confetti*

I'm happy, because my strange theory that Yukiko and Yuusaku are somehow involved was confirmed. The hair curl peeking out benieth the hat rim seems to confirm that it is Yukiko - and I can't quite shake off the feeling that Okiya is a disguise that has been used by both Yuusaku and Akai. Yuusaku may either know him through interpol or FBI connections, or may have been introduced by Shinichi...

^v^ I'm rather excited about this. I'd hate for Okiya to  be only Yuusaku and have Akai really be dead, but Chek's theory is too compelling to refuse. Here's hoping!

Also what's it whith the Org, Trains and Yukiko with a hat on? The first time we see Gin and Vodka again, if I recal, there were all these three elements too.

EDIT: I took a small glimpse at some of the Ran-related comments, and I have to say that I cannot agree more. I think my favourite handling of her character was when she had known, for quite a while, that Conan was Shinichi and kept mum and about it, until she was hoodwinked into thinking otherwise during the desperate revival arc. It made me wonder whether her little DNA comment in Chapter 794 as Mihai has mentioned made me wonder whether she was dropping hints again, just as she had on the boat. ^v^ We'll see!
Last edited by Midi on June 21st, 2012, 5:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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sonoci
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Re: Discussion Thread: Detective Conan Files 818+ "Mystery T

Post by sonoci »

Oh, right. I had thought of something

At the end of file 800, we saw Amuro, Okiya and Sera on their phones. Going along with Chek's theories and what was just revealed in the last file, I think it's safe to say that Amuro was talking with Vermouth and Okiya was talking with Yukiko. ...The mysterious thing is Sera. ...Who in the world could she be talking to? I honestly can't think of anyone.


...well, I sort of can, but I don't want to be right. ...The only guess I have right now is Yuusaku.

But that would mean that Yuusaku and Yukiko were helping Sera and Akai respectively...and I'm pretty sure that's just too far out. I'd think that if it were the case, Yuusaku would have probably clued Sera in to some of the important things going on. ...Unless Yuusaku and Yukiko were acting independently ...but I don't want that to happen @_@


So, any other guesses as to who Sera was talking to?
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jalex26

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Re: Discussion Thread: Detective Conan Files 818+ "Mystery T

Post by jalex26 »

sonoci wrote: So, any other guesses as to who Sera was talking to?
Maybe Sera wasn't really talking to someone relevant. She's probably just talking to the police or something.
El Huesudo II
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Re: Discussion Thread: Detective Conan Files 818+ "Mystery T

Post by El Huesudo II »

saorin wrote:In addition, YAY for some Ran-involvement. The idea with her confronting either Shiho or Okiya/Akai or even Vermouth again sits fine with me. She needs to take some part in this finally. Not also for the sake of her position as a character but also for the sake of plot progression in general.
Some people might find her a nuisance or superfluous now, but let's face it: Gosho wrote her in in the first place, so we can't ditch her half-way. Gosho tends to neglect her, or at least her involvement, and this needs to be changed at some point - and this would be a good one. =D
I'd love it if Ran got some action time too, yes. But I don't think it's a bad thing that her involvement in the general plot is not consistent: even if she's the female protagonist, she's not (as of yet) one of the key players in the main plot; which makes sense: the entire reason behind the Edogawa Conan persona and all the trouble he, Haibara, Prof. Agasa, and even Vermouth (because of the whole Angel thing) go through to maintain it is to keep Shinichi's acquaintances out of the loop and therefore out of harm, and at the center of that group is Ran.

Therefore, it wouldn't be necessary for Aoyama-sensei to mix Ran in the whole ordeal (yet), especially because in a way, it'd mean the key players failed in their mission. Once Ran gets a more prominent role in the main plot, she's in harm's way; which is what everyone is trying to avoid.

As for Ran's suspicions about Conan, I too find it a little bit hard to swallow that one moment Ran is all "it has to be him" and by the next episode she's forgotten about the whole ordeal. However, there might be a way to explain why this happens. This is the way I see it:

First of all, the mere idea of a 17-year-old passing as a 7-year-old is pretty ridiculous. Ran herself thought it, too, when she began suspecting.
Second, Ran simply has no access to all the information. She might have a theory for why it could be possible, but it's crack-theory quality at most; and she thinks of it as such (every time she's mentioned her Agasa-invented-something-to-shrink-Shinichi theory, she's said it with an air of incredulity. Not even she believes it could be true.)
Third, there have been several situations where it could appear that Conan and Shinichi are separate entities (from her point of view, of course), especially machinated so as to assuage Ran's suspicions. It's pretty obvious that they don't work (as Ran still suspects Conan), but they serve their purpose at the time they're put in action.

What would you do if you had a hunch that depended on a ridiculous idea, and you lacked crucial information to cement your point? Add to that the fact that said information is apparently impossible to get, and that there's even evidence (which from your POV looks true) that your hunch is wrong. The most probable cause of action would be to forget about it! I mean, it's not that there aren't other more important things to think about in life. Let's remember that Ran is an active high-schooler who's into an after-school club and also takes care of the house and of her family. She has a lot of stuff to worry about already, to add stuff to that stack would be overdoing it.

So what I'm saying is, if we consider Ran is not actually falling for Conan's tricks (because it's clear she doesn't, she even asks Yukiko and Conan once if they're both trying to fool her), but merely dismissing the issue in favor of more important things to think about at the moment, only to return to the issue when it's relevant to what's happening around her, her behavior is pretty believable.
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sonoci
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Re: Discussion Thread: Detective Conan Files 818+ "Mystery T

Post by sonoci »

@El Heusude II: As many points as you've got, we've really gotta drop the Ran conversation xD It was pretty relevant at first, as it dealt directly with the case at hand, but now it's off-topic.

I'd say if people want the discussion to go on that someone should make a thread specifically for the topic in General Discussion, not here.  ;)

Anyway, on topic
jalex26 wrote: Maybe Sera wasn't really talking to someone relevant. She's probably just talking to the police or something.
I find that hard to believe :P I mean, why would she just randomly get a call? Gosho doesn't usually show things that are irrelevant. It must have been important in some way. It's true that it wouldn't necessarily have to be a relevant character, but they'd at the very least have to have some sort of relevant information. (ex: the little boy that saw Vermouth and heard her catchphrase)
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jalex26

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Re: Discussion Thread: Detective Conan Files 818+ "Mystery T

Post by jalex26 »

sonoci wrote:
jalex26 wrote: Maybe Sera wasn't really talking to someone relevant. She's probably just talking to the police or something.
I find that hard to believe :P I mean, why would she just randomly get a call? Gosho doesn't usually show things that are irrelevant. It must have been important in some way. It's true that it wouldn't necessarily have to be a relevant character, but they'd at the very least have to have some sort of relevant information. (ex: the little boy that saw Vermouth and heard her catchphrase)
You're right about that :) But the fact that she received a call is relevant by itself because it makes her appear suspicious. I think that that is the main point of the call and not the content of the phone call. I'm not saying that it was irrelevant because that's definitely a possibility, I'm just saying that it can be anybody.
Fennec

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Re: Discussion Thread: Detective Conan Files 818+ "Mystery T

Post by Fennec »

Okay, here's a random crack theory: Sera was in the US before. Eisuke is in the US now. They met at some point and he told her about Conan (though not necessarily his identity). Therefore, the call could have been from him to check in on her.
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Chekhov MacGuffin
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Re: Discussion Thread: Detective Conan Files 818+ "Mystery T

Post by Chekhov MacGuffin »

User 4869 wrote:
sonoci wrote: So, any other guesses as to who Sera was talking to?
James Black?
This is my current guess only because there are no other sensible ideas. I dislike it because Black should not be getting a civilian involved randomly, but if Blacked sicced her on Conan because Black got suspicious that Conan might have made a plan with Akai, this might not be too OOC.
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