Bourbon's Identity: Who is Bourbon!?

[Kor]

TO MODERATORS
it is my request to add a poll on whose theory is right .since the discussion of Bourbon's(Amuro) motive have boiled down to my and chekhov's thinking .so why not listen to the thoughts of rest of people as well .

Spoiler: Sample Pole

whose theory is right

• Chekhov Macguffin ,our good community scholar
• kuro_shiro              , the new evil rival

read theories first vote later

PS:i like being evil

I don't see the point. First of all, we don't really know who is right until we get it from Gosho. Second, it kinda gives the impression that these are the two main theories or at least gives them some spotlight. Third, there is no Pofa option in the poll (ignore this last one if you don't go to the OT board).

I don't like the idea of having a poll on particular user's theories versus just the theories themselves. Focusing on the person invites ad hominem.

Basically that.

Also, I forget, but I'm not sure you can add a poll on a thread so easily unless you are an admin like Jd- or Abs.

That was the case until a while ago. Now moderators have most of the functions about the polls.

[sstimson]

TO MODERATORS
it is my request to add a poll on whose theory is right .since the discussion of Bourbon's(Amuro) motive have boiled down to my and chekhov's thinking .so why not listen to the thoughts of rest of people as well .

Spoiler: Sample Pole

whose theory is right

• Chekhov Macguffin ,our good community scholar
• kuro_shiro              , the new evil rival

read theories first vote later

PS:i like being evil

I don't see the point. First of all, we don't really know who is right until we get it from Gosho. Second, it kinda gives the impression that these are the two main theories or at least gives them some spotlight. Third, there is no Pofa option in the poll (ignore this last one if you don't go to the OT board

Beside, While I might not count, there is currently a third theory on the board ( Does Not Exist )

[kuro_shiro]

I don't see the point. First of all, we don't really know who is right until we get it from Gosho. Second, it kinda gives the impression that these are the two main theories or at least gives them some spotlight. Third, there is no Pofa option in the poll (ignore this last one if you don't go to the OT board).

i have always thought that polls are for taking voter's opinion not for waiting till truth is revealed and then ask voters to vote for the right thing.
well there are only two theories on the thread so i thought let others voice their oinions about them.

ideas like this are always jumping in my mind and sometimes they make it  here.
i will try to be more thoughtful next time.

I don't like the idea of having a poll on particular user's theories versus just the theories themselves. Focusing on the person invites ad hominem.

sorry, i didn't thought that far .

The polls on DCTP are screwy anyway.

i can't deny a fact

It doesn't matter which he used because neither was public. I reread through a rather large number of Kogoro's cases specifically to look at how clients contacted him, and Kogoro was never contacted by first time clients on his cellphone (first time clients used the office landline) although he did give his cellphone number to clients who have already contacted him once already. Kogoro only got a public business email in the 790s. In short, it is still weird how scar Akai knew Kogoro's cellphone number/SMS/private email/whatever it was.

well , idon't think bourbon would have spinned theories and decided to track all possible suspects(kir , fbi , kogoro) in a serail order.
i think he must have first ,from a safe distance, gathered as much as info as he can(the investigative phase where you try find conclusive evidence) well when no evidence was found  bourbon masquared as scar akai getup to fbi (most probable suspect).

so it is possible that at that time(file 700-704). bourbon had his hands on kogoro's number.

Kogoro's number is not public but it is not something that a person of Bourbon's caliber could not get.
Note:vermouth managed to get kogoro's files from police headquarters and return those as well  

one simple way to get kogoro's number
ask for a simple ( pointless)work .make it clear that the case is extremly important and ask for his phone number.if the money for case is high enough , i am sure kogoro would no think much further.
Bourbon could easily hide his appearance and voice and get kogoro's number

i am certain that there would be a number of ways to get kogoro's number .after he gets that he can store it in a notebook or his own phone.

[Chekhov MacGuffin]

It doesn't matter which he used because neither was public. I reread through a rather large number of Kogoro's cases specifically to look at how clients contacted him, and Kogoro was never contacted by first time clients on his cellphone (first time clients used the office landline) although he did give his cellphone number to clients who have already contacted him once already. Kogoro only got a public business email in the 790s. In short, it is still weird how scar Akai knew Kogoro's cellphone number/SMS/private email/whatever it was.

well , idon't think bourbon would have spinned theories and decided to track all possible suspects(kir , fbi , kogoro) in a serail order.

Why not? You yourself just pointed out that when he didn't get any evidence from initial investigations (likely involving Kir), he approached the FBI, and now he's approaching Kogoro as Amuro. Even within the FBI search he started with Jodie, and then Camel. That seems pretty serial to me, going from most likely down to least likely.

so it is possible that at that time(file 700-704). bourbon had his hands on kogoro's number.

Kogoro's number is not public but it is not something that a person of Bourbon's caliber could not get.
Note:vermouth managed to get kogoro's files from police headquarters and return those as well  

one simple way to get kogoro's number
ask for a simple ( pointless)work .make it clear that the case is extremly important and ask for his phone number.if the money for case is high enough , i am sure kogoro would no think much further.
Bourbon could easily hide his appearance and voice and get kogoro's number

i am certain that there would be a number of ways to get kogoro's number .after he gets that he can store it in a notebook or his own phone.

⇩

i think he must have first ,from a safe distance, gathered as much as info as he can(the investigative phase where you try find conclusive evidence)

This was exactly what I was saying about why Bourbon has Kogoro's cellphone number. He did a bunch of investigation beforehand, trying to figure out who was most likely harboring Akai, so he would know who and what order to investigate them in.
In the process of this initial exhaustive investigation (or perhaps even before then if some asked Bourbon to try to find Kir while she was captured!), Bourbon got Kir's cellphone that was left in Gin's car when she was captured, looked at who sent messages to it, saw Kogoro's message with his routing number, and noted it down. He kept the number even as he was investigating the FBI because Kogoro was a contact of Kir's and could be a lead into Akai if the FBI check doesn't work out.

[kuro_shiro]

Why not? You yourself just pointed out that when he didn't get any evidence from initial investigations (likely involving Kir), he approached the FBI, and now he's approaching Kogoro as Amuro. Even within the FBI search he started with Jodie, and then Camel. That seems pretty serial to me, going from most likely down to least likely.

according to me ,boubon investigated in this way
first he spinned theories and removed the impossible suspects leaving him with kir , fbi and kogoro.

then he investigated all 3 from a safe distance trying to find a conclusive evidence. well , he got none
he got kogoro's phone number in this phase

then after this he tried to dive deeper with scar akai getup.
he first investigated jodie,who believed that bourbon is akai and survived the accident and lost memory.

then he investigated camel(who  tried to find him thinking him as akai)

however he has decided to do that to kogoro as well and since kogoro was coincidently there he moved near him and got trapped on the floor.
Bourbon moved in front of red shirts so kogoro could have seen him as okiya did.

despite his attempt ,kogoro didn't recognise(assuming he saw him) him and some kid made people go back to mall.
so he decided to investigate kogoro and people around kogoro.

This was exactly what I was saying about why Bourbon has Kogoro's cellphone number. He did a bunch of investigation beforehand, trying to figure out who was most likely harboring Akai, so he would know who and what order to investigate them in.
In the process of this initial exhaustive investigation (or perhaps even before then if some asked Bourbon to try to find Kir while she was captured!), Bourbon got Kir's cellphone that was left in Gin's car when she was captured, looked at who sent messages to it, saw Kogoro's message with his routing number, and noted it down. He kept the number even as he was investigating the FBI because Kogoro was a contact of Kir's and could be a lead into Akai if the FBI check doesn't work out.

if bourbon got kogoro's number from kir. then kir would have tried to told jodie about it.

as far as when kir was captured goes, gin was already at the scene. there is no way he would ask  bourbon(whom gin dislike) to help in investigating kogoro let alone  investigate kir's phone.
and i am not able to find (after reading 499-504 2 ,ore times) where did kir got kogoro's number in first place

[Abs.]

Added an inappropriate poll because I'm running on __ hours of no sleep.

[Chekhov MacGuffin]

if bourbon got kogoro's number from kir. then kir would have tried to told jodie about it.

Or he could have been sneaky because he didn't want Kir to find out.

and i am not able to find (after reading 499-504 2 ,ore times) where did kir got kogoro's number in first place

here

[kuro_shiro]

and i am not able to find (after reading 499-504 2 ,ore times) where did kir got kogoro's number in first place

here

i must have bad eyesight for not to notice this.

[ten]

About the true identity of Amuro:

Spoiler:

Amuro Tohru is Scar Akai is Bourbon
See also the DCW link

Direct Evidence
• Amuro is a detective and very skilled at intelligence gathering.

•        Although it appeared he messed up in his introductory case, Amuro likely threw case on purpose to test Kogoro/Conan (depending on how much he knows). Amuro deliberately antagonizes the main suspect, Banba, who is drunk, by accusing him of being his fiancé's murderer. Banba into goaded into rushing him, so Amuro dodges and trips Banba. The condition of the bottom of Banba's shoes is important for the case, and Amuro asks Kogoro to hold Banba's legs. This whole interaction suggests that Amuro knew the bottom on Banba's shoes was important to the case, yet he seemed to overlook the now visible information on the bottom of the shoes that would have proved Banba's innocence. Later, as Banba is about to be lead away and the clue destroyed, Amuro's "..." (795.4) seems to indicate that he is waiting for Kogoro to intervene. After Kogoro begins his deduction, Amuro explains the genetic condition that the dead fiancé had in great detail without using any references.
        Assuming Amuro purposefully got his deduction wrong, that means Amuro didn't speak up even at the last minute when Banba was about to go outside and inadvertently destroy the critical clue showing his innocence. If you think about it, this kind of behavior isn't normal for good detectives in DC. Good detectives never want innocent suspects to be accused even if this means more trouble for the detective to prove it (unless they have told the police ahead of time they are doing a trick and are trying to get the real culprit to incriminate themselves). This shows that Amuro isn't like the normal DC detectives, but is calculating instead.

Looking back on his behavior during that case, to me that is the most damning evidence; his attitude and behavior seems to be much more in line with this idea than not.  With that theory in mind, even Amuro's speech towards Banba 'definitively' being the culprit, "There's no other way to think about this, is there...", in retrospect seems expectant ... as if he is waiting for Mouri to say, "But there is ..."

That is also a reprisal of what Sera did in her initial meeting with Conan when 'solving' the case, although Sera did it in a much more overt manner, and we learn that Conan caught on to it.  Maybe we will learn later on that Conan caught on to it with Amuro's first meeting as well...

[Chekhov MacGuffin]

That is also a reprisal of what Sera did in her initial meeting with Conan when 'solving' the case, although Sera did it in a much more overt manner, and we learn that Conan caught on to it.  Maybe we will learn later on that Conan caught on to it with Amuro's first meeting as well...

When Sera did it, she accused the right person with everything correct except for one part of the trick. After seeing Sera's explanation, the police would have trouble letting the culprit go just because the trick did not work right at the very end. If Conan failed to fix Sera's explanation, then the culprit would still be in hot water anyway. Amuro's explanation, if not fixed,  would have definitely put the suspicion on the innocent suspect.

[secretbeauty101]

Ok, considering the actions of file 800, I have to say that Bourbon has got to be Amoru. First off, he just entered the picture, whereas, Okiya has been in the series for quite a while, he could have gotten 'trust' (stated by vermouth at the end of File 800) a long time ago. Same as the chick. In addition, Bourbon is a man, so that rules out the girl. Not to mention, Okiya's plans at trying to rescue Conan was floored by Amoru's plan instead. Therefore, making him out to be the hero. Vermouth knows that Amoru would need this in order to gain trust from Conan, considering how sharp and suspicious he is of new or unknown characters. Well that's my idea, what do you all think?


Edited the title to be less spoilerish. Will merger later if another mod doesn't beat me to it. -kyuu

[Commi-Ninja]

You might want to edit the topic title, as some might consider that spoiler-ish.

[Tenken]

I think it's Amuro, too!  But it could also be Sera...  I'm not sure.

But I'm sure that it's NOT Okiya!

Vermouth asks, "You will abide by the promise you made to me, right, Bourbon?"
One of the three (Okiya, Amuro, Sera) will reply her question in some form or another. We'll find out in... 2012 .__.

[Akonyl]

replyin to get the "last replied" thing to stop saying it's Amuro :V

anyway, yeah. Could be Sera though.

But we all know Bourbon doesn't really exist, so.

edit: And now that it's been merged into this thread, I'm definitely going with the pofa option.

[Ai Angel of Darkness]

I think Bourbon is Sera, cuz Gosho always chooses the least expected ending.
All that Okiya = Bourbon in the beginning was too obvious, and it was clearly just a red herring.
Everyone thinks that Sera is Akai's sister, but what if she isn't? Maybe Gosho just wanted everyone to think that.
Really look forward to File 801, but it comes out in 2012. Hope the world doesn't end before that ^.^