Discussion Thread: Detective Conan Files 894-898: Scarlet Series!

Forum reserved for discussing specific points of the story—mostly from the manga. Be warned, these discussions will be current with the manga and will spoil many plot lines for anime-centric fans.
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Dyka_13

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Re: Discussion Thread: Detective Conan Files 894-???: Scarlet Series!

Post by Dyka_13 »

Omg, someone actually had the energy to think this through with concept of time in mind!!!! Im impressed!!!! I agree with your idea, makes sooo much sense! That means your point is that yuusaku is okiya right? Honestly, I think that's how it will turm out, but i wish yuusaku doesn't reveal himself from the okiya disguise....that would, as I've mentioned before, contradict conan's words to yuusaku in the beginning of the serie!!
I think theres only yuusaku left you know :p we had heiji, fbi, cia, kaito kid, and yukiko helping conan vs BO, so I think only Yuusaku is left :p

I dont agree with your early deduction of Yuukiko being Okiya, because simply there is no advantage of having her face Amuro... She cant really act under pressure, and she is generally not even better skillwise than Jodie(earlier Jodies I should say :p). I think it will be so much better if Yuukiko is taking Yuusakus place in macademy(if it is live)as she cant really be in any danger, eventhough she cant answer questions... Its just not effective... So yeah, I think I agree with your 'later' yuusaku=okiya opinion, just like everyone else :D
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Re: Discussion Thread: Detective Conan Files 894-???: Scarlet Series!

Post by Jecka »

MeiTanteixX wrote:
ALAKTORN wrote:This time thing is going all over my head. But wait, does this mean that the Yūsaku at the Macademy Awards is real? I was sure that was Yukiko.
yes, i think it's possible to get to japan from the US by plane in less than 24 hours, if he left the macademy awards early
It can take up to 14 hours on the plane alone, so he can't just leave from the Macademy awards, it'd have to be way before. :P
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Re: Discussion Thread: Detective Conan Files 894-???: Scarlet Series!

Post by Stopwatch »

I think the LIVE thing means there is likely some time trickery on and it would resolve the plothole over why Yukiko had to act as Yuusaku instead of just having her as Okiya and having Yuusaku as Yuusaku. With the time thing suggested earlier it would mean that Yuusaku is Yuusaku, and Yuusaku is also Okiya because the recording is from the previous night. I'm nowhere near utterly sure yet, but for now, it fits from what I can see.
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Re: Discussion Thread: Detective Conan Files 894-???: Scarlet Series!

Post by DNBK4869 »

Spoiler:
The title of yusaku's movie is The Scarlet Agent, Akai means red in japanese it could be a subtle clue to who Okiya really is
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Re: Discussion Thread: Detective Conan Files 894-???: Scarlet Series!

Post by PhantomWriter »

Jd- wrote:I'm doubling-down on the guys helping Amuro not being Black Org members. I just can't see these guys being fully-informed Black Org members of any sort, as stated ages ago. Their guns seem like police issue revolvers, whereas most of the Black Organization guns that I can recall off-hand are more like Brownings and generic 9mms. We've seen police in Conan and Jodie both use revolvers so far (and Vermouth after she was faking Araide as well), so my instinct would be that these guys are part of some sort of law enforcement or security or something like that; secret police or fellow PIs seem the most likely off-hand.

As for everything involving the awards show and the broadcast: I feel like Gosho has placed a lot of unnecessary attention on this. The tape delay trick would have been practical, realistic, and wouldn't have involved so much theater. We wouldn't have had to introduce yet another disguise for Yukiko as Yuusaku at the ceremony nor we would have had to introduce another red herring on top of the several that are already at play.

I was saying before how it'd be interesting for Gosho to actually use a time discrepancy between "now" (Okiya/Amuro) and "then" (Ran watching the awards at home). The thing is, though: It's unnecessarily deceptive in a lot of ways, chiefly due to it serving primarily as a way to fool the reader instead of serving as a real addition to the story being told. Showing Ran's perspective is meant to show, for whatever reason Gosho decides, that it's "LIVE", so using Ran's perspective to fool only the reader is not something that would come off as particularly clever, at least to me. It will take one hell of a twist to make this something practical and interesting, and it'd revolve around the news flash if so.

To me, it seems most likely that Yukiko is Yuusaku at the awards show, Yuusaku is Okiya in the house, and Conan's being Conan behind the scenes. My guess is that Conan's secondary goal with regard to helping see through the Okiya/Akai plot is to protect him, his friends, and his family. I have a feeling the explanation is going to be a litttle bit flimsy when everything is over and done with (which has happened a few times with Yukiko--in fact, almost all of her appearances have ended this way, now that I think about it). Conan's intention appears to be to deceive Amuro into thinking that Okiya is just a normal guy and he can't be Akai nor can he be Yuusaku, because Yuusaku is on TV behind them. I'm really hoping there's a lot more to this, because that is just not a very compelling answer to what's going on outside of that house. Also figure in that there are hidden cameras everywhere and obviously something is up.

I thought the tape delay trick would work fine and would explain the reporters outside as well without Amuro being any the wiser: Okiya could just be a disguise that Yuusaku uses when he's in Japan and wants some peace and quiet. It explains why he's in the house and explains why the identity is fake if Amuro looks into it too much. It's still a bit flimsy as well, since Amuro could check on Yuusaku's whereabouts against Yuusaku's at a given time (even though Okiya has kept an extremely low profile). Amuro would think he was mistaken about Okiya being Akai's alter-ego while he was in hiding and the ruse would be a success. The cameras could be written off as security measures of a very famous guy in need of home security, etc. However...

...Akai has now re-appeared in public (Gosho, don't forget Kir, please), completely confirming that he's still alive (Gosho: Kir!). So, what is it we're meant to think Amuro is to conclude here? He was right about Akai being alive, check. Akai has been hiding out somewhere, check. Something fishy is clearly going on, check. Is the plan to get him to just give up on the Okiya angle and go back to square one? That seems to be the most obvious, but not necessarily correct, answer at this point. (KIRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!)

All in all, there's not really much else that can apply to this situation. There's no way Conan could have just taped the awards show and run it in the background because there's no way to know if Amuro had seen it or heard about it. All of this charade with Okiya and Yuusaku and Yukiko is ultimately very unnecessary when you think about none of it would ever be necessary if Akai had just used a different house. Yes, I know the prevailing opinion is that he wanted to keep an eye on Haibara and it'd be good for him to have a (plot-relevant) place to stay without any questions being asked, but that's all for the sake of storytelling convenience and not really applicable to the wider question of just working a bit harder and not endangering literally everyone by staying in that house as opposed to a couple of houses down.

With concern to the rest: Naturally, Akai won't kill the guys chasing them (unintentionally or otherwise) and is looking to disable their cars, not send them flying over the cliff (I'll definitely be amused if he has an entire sniper rifle ready in the backseat with him).
I'm also inclined to think they're not Org. They are aware of what Akai looks like, so either Amuro told them he was hunting for some guy and showed him a photo or they know Akai already. If they know Akai already, I'm assuming they're not just some random detectives Amuro hired, but are actually intelligence agency members of some kind. My question is why they're willing to chase after FBI agents to use as a lure to get to Akai. Why do they want Akai out in the open like this? And that sort of visual confirmation during a high-speed chase bothers me on some level- unless they were notably familiar with his appearance, Amuro wouldn't necessarily trust them. Do they think he went AWOL? Are they aware he is supposed to be dead?

If Amuro isn't Org, which is looking more and more likely from my perspective, then this whole mess and some of the mess on the Bell Tree train is due to pure lack of communication and how Amuro's probably trying to maintain his cover as best he can compared to Kir (who's on thin ice) and Akai (who got his cover blown by Camel). Of course, I never understood why Conan did that in public, asking Amuro like that about the "are you an enemy of bad guys?" thing. There were cops there. There was the FBI. If he's really a deep-cover agent and, with his specialty in psychological tricks and his constant use of ironic process theory, he wouldn't want anyone to know that he was a deep-cover agent. Then they wouldn't act like he was an Organization member, they'd start treating him like his actual allegiance, which is downright dangerous for him as a deep-cover agent. Especially considering how Camel has problems accidentally revealing things when informed of the situation fully and how Conan's so sloppy lately and Amuro's been observing that...
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Re: Discussion Thread: Detective Conan Files 894-???: Scarlet Series!

Post by k11chi »

I guess they could have said what the 3 people inside the car looked like too in order for Amuro to think that Akai was there...
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Re: Discussion Thread: Detective Conan Files 894-???: Scarlet Series!

Post by MoonRaven »

Gah, there's too many good theories going around in here! I think I'll just wait until Gosho tells us.

About the bad guy thing and misunderstanding... I was thinking that maybe Amuro hints that he is the enemy of different bad guys. Conan obviously(to us readers) hints the BO but it can be interpreted much more ambiguosly(I hope that's the word). Amuro's answer is only about the nick-name that got wrong but there might be something else too. Like how he is strongly against the FBI. It coule be even that he thinks the Feds as bad guys!

Or then I'm overthinking...
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Re: Discussion Thread: Detective Conan Files 894-???: Scarlet Series!

Post by MeiTanteixX »

Jecka wrote:
MeiTanteixX wrote:
ALAKTORN wrote:This time thing is going all over my head. But wait, does this mean that the Yūsaku at the Macademy Awards is real? I was sure that was Yukiko.
yes, i think it's possible to get to japan from the US by plane in less than 24 hours, if he left the macademy awards early
It can take up to 14 hours on the plane alone, so he can't just leave from the Macademy awards, it'd have to be way before. :P
14 hours plane flight, which leaves 10 hours for both departure and arrival(if we assume amuro got there exactly 24 hours after his talk with vermouth), is enough time to get there before amuro arrives to the door!! He only needs to put the disguise on, which yukiko will prepare and voila!!

Adding my theory(excluding yukiko being okiya in disguise) for what happens next will pretty summerize the trick of the disguise, including the instruments used for communication by conan.
Last edited by MeiTanteixX on May 11th, 2014, 1:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Discussion Thread: Detective Conan Files 894-???: Scarlet Series!

Post by MoonRaven »

Why do I have a feeling that Gosho will have yet another trick up in his sleeve? I mean he already had the glue thing instead of Conan's identical phones...
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Re: Discussion Thread: Detective Conan Files 894-???: Scarlet Series!

Post by k11chi »

Conan324 wrote:What if amuro is actually BO but is also working in any agency but his true allegiance is to the BO?
Amuro seems to have quite a bit of freedom in the org but he doesn't work just for the secret service (still not known) or the organisation... He's also a detective, Mouri detective agency apprentice, part-timer at Cafe Poirot...
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Re: Discussion Thread: Detective Conan Files 894-???: Scarlet Series!

Post by MeiTanteixX »

MoonRaven wrote:Gah, there's too many good theories going around in here! I think I'll just wait until Gosho tells us.

About the bad guy thing and misunderstanding... I was thinking that maybe Amuro hints that he is the enemy of different bad guys. Conan obviously(to us readers) hints the BO but it can be interpreted much more ambiguosly(I hope that's the word). Amuro's answer is only about the nick-name that got wrong but there might be something else too. Like how he is strongly against the FBI. It coule be even that he thinks the Feds as bad guys!

Or then I'm overthinking...
One explaination to why Amuro said that conan must've misunderstood something is That Amuro meant he is misunderstanding about him being PSIA agent. Conan thought that the reason he might be a PSIA member was, among other reasons, because Amuro reacted to the word "Zero". He thought that because The PSIA is also called the Zero agency(non-exsisting agency) and that Amuro's reaction was like a natural reflex to the agency that he is from, and that the childhood nickname part was just a lie. Amuro's sentence to conan(after conan asked if amuro was an enemy of the bad guy) was:
"Zero was really my nickname...you must've misunderstood something"
The more I think about, the more it sounds like Amuro figured out that conan was thinking he was an PSIA agent! that could still indicate that he is loyal to the BO,...or that he's from an another agency in Japan(because of the conviction he showed when telling the FBI to Get out of his Japan) and that his connection to elena was through another way.
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Re: Discussion Thread: Detective Conan Files 894-???: Scarlet Series!

Post by MoonRaven »

MeiTanteixX wrote:One explaination to why Amuro said that conan must've misunderstood something is That Amuro meant he is misunderstanding about him being PSIA agent. Conan thought that the reason he might be a PSIA member was, among other reasons, because Amuro reacted to the word "Zero". He thought that because The PSIA is also called the Zero agency(non-exsisting agency) and that Amuro's reaction was like a natural reflex to the agency that he is from, and that the childhood nickname part was just a lie. Amuro's sentence to conan(after conan asked if amuro was an enemy of the bad guy) was:
"Zero was really my nickname...you must've misunderstood something"
The more I think about, the more it sounds like Amuro figured out that conan was thinking he was an PSIA agent! that could still indicate that he is loyal to the BO,...or that he's from an another agency in Japan(because of the conviction he showed when telling the FBI to Get out of his Japan) and that his connection to elena was through another way.
Like I stated, I'm probably overthinking...

Hmm... Another thing I got from that scene was that Amuro also gave Conan a subtle warning of not think too much about himself(Conan). The PSIA is very hard to make indeed and Amuro obviously acknoledges Conan's intelligence but at the same time he probably sees how overconfident the boy is. I mean... Asking whether or not Amuro is the enemy of bad guys while knowing Amuro is member of the Organization and has told even Jodie about it... Time to knock down the kid's ego a peg or two.

My ramblings once again... I hope you get some sense from that. I'm not sure anymore...
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Re: Discussion Thread: Detective Conan Files 894-???: Scarlet Series!

Post by Sani »

I'm still having my problems with the timings.

I thought the Macademy Awards are held in the US in the evening, which would be early morning in Japan. So how comes that the Mouri's TV states 'live' if it's actually recorded as well? (Seeing as how it's aired near dinner time in Japan.) I know someone already tried to explain that, but I seriously didn't understand. ~.~"

Also, if the Awards were held and broadcasted the same day that Amuro got the information about Kusuda and started investigating Akai anew, then the news of Yuusaku having won the Oscar would have been all over the media the next day, when he's confronting Okiya. That's frontpage material after all. Even though he was too sure of himself about Okiya, he's still very smart and excells at gathering intelligence. Investigating Okiya staying at the Kudou residence would have him stuble across this news for sure. The reporters in front of the residence would have been a huge give-away as well.
Amuro voiced his dislike of the TV at the beginning of the conversation, but Okiya said that he's interested in what's going on there. If Amuro thus knew about the results he coud have just told Okiya - or asked him how it came that Okiya didn't know the outcome yet.
He wouldn't let himself be fooled into deducing that Okiya can't possibly be Yuusaku, either, just because of the recording of an event that took place more than one day ago.

So... I fail to see what's the purpose of Conan choosing to show the Macademy Awards. ???
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Re: Discussion Thread: Detective Conan Files 894-???: Scarlet Series!

Post by PhantomWriter »

Sani wrote:I'm still having my problems with the timings.

I thought the Macademy Awards are held in the US in the evening, which would be early morning in Japan. So how comes that the Mouri's TV states 'live' if it's actually recorded as well? (Seeing as how it's aired near dinner time in Japan.) I know someone already tried to explain that, but I seriously didn't understand. ~.~"

Also, if the Awards were held and broadcasted the same day that Amuro got the information about Kusuda and started investigating Akai anew, then the news of Yuusaku having won the Oscar would have been all over the media the next day, when he's confronting Okiya. That's frontpage material after all. Even though he was too sure of himself about Okiya, he's still very smart and excells at gathering intelligence. Investigating Okiya staying at the Kudou residence would have him stuble across this news for sure. The reporters in front of the residence would have been a huge give-away as well.
Amuro voiced his dislike of the TV at the beginning of the conversation, but Okiya said that he's interested in what's going on there. If Amuro thus knew about the results he coud have just told Okiya - or asked him how it came that Okiya didn't know the outcome yet.
He wouldn't let himself be fooled into deducing that Okiya can't possibly be Yuusaku, either, just because of the recording of an event that took place more than one day ago.

So... I fail to see what's the purpose of Conan choosing to show the Macademy Awards. ???
That is a pretty good point. Mmmm....
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Re: Discussion Thread: Detective Conan Files 894-???: Scarlet Series!

Post by conan998 »

maybe gosho is using reverse pschology.....
..he displayed the 'LIVE ' on tv not to confirm yusaku's alibi but to make us think yusaku is involved but in reality its only yukiko........
anyhow.......does anybody think the trick will be explained next file.....if so then i am more than ever hyped up!!!!!
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