Akai (SPOILERS)

[Partsu]

that was Scar Akai...no one's really sure he's the real one...and by his actions...no way he's real...
appearing only in front of FBI agents pretending to be mute/amnesiac?
Akai wouldn't do that.He's clearly endangering Kir if he's that scar dude...

[sstimson]

No Akai would do that if he has no memory. I do not think he is pretending he has none

@DetectiveConanGeekster21 - Her name is Jodie.

[doublemoonlight]

If he has no memory then how the slag did he recongise Jodie as FBI agent?

[sstimson]

What makes you think he did? I think he knew what was happening up stairs, and warned a person who might be headed in to danger.

[doublemoonlight]

If Akai does not have his memory, then it is plausible Akai would walk around in the open without knowing the danger he is in, however scar Akai's actions strongly suggest his memory is still intact. He seems to be stalking the FBI by appearing before them: something he would not do if he had lost all of his memory.

why would he stalk Jodie if he lost his memories... If he did he would see her as nothing but avarage forien woman...

[sstimson]

If Akai does not have his memory, then it is plausible Akai would walk around in the open without knowing the danger he is in, however scar Akai's actions strongly suggest his memory is still intact. He seems to be stalking the FBI by appearing before them: something he would not do if he had lost all of his memory.

why would he stalk Jodie if he lost his memories... If he did he would see her as nothing but avarage forien woman...

Let me ask this question. How is showing up twice in a normal location stalking?

explain what you mean by this statement: actions strongly suggest his memory is still intact

AS I already typed I do not see this. I see a person with little or no memories trying to make it through life.

[doublemoonlight]

why would he indeed be shown up mulitiple times to Jodie... and plus during red shirts case he even appeared to Camel and dissapeared into crowd.

[sstimson]

twice. only twice. your multiple times are twice. And we are missing key information. Does he have feeling in that arm or shoulder? Note he did not run, camel just lost him in a crowd. Also his action with camel are normal. If a strange man tried to grab you, would you not also likely pretend he was not there and then lose him in a crowd?

Also I notice two things you might have missed. First, he bought his hat from that store, so it is likely his neighbor store and the bank he was seen in is next door. Next he was shown on TV news; likely as a witness to the bank case. Note in neither of those appearances is there any mention of others FBI or BO being there. Again that might show no stalking is involved. If there is any stalking, Jodie is doing it. She came looking for him not the other way around.

[doublemoonlight]

Of cause he did not run because scar akai fully well knew if he tried to run that would mark him as susipious under the eye of Carmel... plus if he did lost his memory to the state he did not recongise his close workmate how was he able to solve the crimes at Red shirts case?

[sstimson]

I think you got that backwards. He is already susipious under the eye of Carmel. After all he did not response. Running away would have make no difference. Did he? He returned the phone and the guys phone it is suggest that. but No where does it say that. Unlikely but possible his phone is left behind or someone borrows it without him knowing solves the case and sends the message. Then sets the phone down. Scar finds it see who it is and returns it. Note Scar did not say here is your cell phone. He ask if it was. And the guy seem not to remember giving his phone away. The words I see is "That guys who picked up my cell phone earlier." The guy did not lend his phone. That leaves open the question of who did and I am of the opinion of it being the College student who did it. (Chapter 704 Pages 4 and 5)

[Chekhov MacGuffin]

This is a transcript of a discussion between me and lol in the spoiler cbox. Apologies for my atrocious grammar and spelling.

lol: mmm.... interesting, but why are you talking like you know for a fact that akai is still alive?

Chek: @lol: Because of several serious inconsistencies in the events that occur at Raiha pass. Disappearing blood trails, bodies that move, Conan acting unexpectedly calm, Okiya appearing later. The Akai's faked death theory is among the strongest out there. No one in my experience has been able to put a serious dent in it over three years of it existing. The only still standing issues are along the lines of "blanks are dangerous at close range" and "maybe if the black Org went through the trouble of sneaking into the police station and getting the death certificate of a guy they watched being killed, they could find some discrepancies."

lol: @Check : Personally, i saw it once on DCW, i dunno if you wrote it, but it just didn't sound right. how can the FBI use the body of a suicide victim as a replacement for the "dead" akai. Also, the shock when conan learns that the DB saw a guy that looks like Akai makes me think he thought he was dead for real. maybe it was because they agreed he wouldn't appear for a while but that wouldn't make any sense as he would have made any moves towards the BO if he was working from the shadows. also if its like the theory says that the police "arrives" conveniently to spare Kir of some serious questioning, then that means the Japanese police were told the plan. then why did takagi lie to Jodie?

Chek: You should probably give it a more thorough read. It really makes a lot of sense. http://www.detectiveconanworld.com/wiki ... his_theory
All of your objections get addressed I am pretty sure except the DB Akai one which is explained by Conan being shocked to hear that Akai might be going around out of costume. it doesn't imply anything about the police being in on the plan, nor did Takagi lie. Seriously, give it a really close read.

lol: I have another objection though, if Okiya is akai, and Conan knows about it, what was that "weird" conversation they had after the mall case? i did i read it a couple of times

Chek: That convo is addressed in the Okiya is Akai theory. It's linked above.

lol: it is a very well thought out theory i'll give you that right off the bat, but i just don't think its something that Gosho could do with explaining properly all the stuff related to it. I kinda like the Bourbon is scar akai theory. i came to the same observation before i read and felt smart after i did

Chek: Trust me lol, I have been through three years worth of objections, including a round from Kyuu who is pretty damn smart. I've heard these objections before, and have dealt with them.

lol: hahahah, i am not objecting believe me, i am just stating obvious facts that contrast that theory, but i completely acknowledge the theory as a very well-thought one

Chek: In the years I have been doing this the only people who still reject the theory are those who haven't read the evidence, "have hunches", simply don't believe the facts, or have an alternate idea that can't be disproven - like Akai has a twin brother no one mentioned and Akai tells this brother everything.

lol: my only point is that there doesn't have to be a "trick" involved, i think that Akai is dead just because disguising as Okyia and hiding in Shinichi's house doesn't give him an advantage. also he can't get IDs, university research lab, etc.... in a different name without the help of the FBI, and the theory says he didn't tell them his plan beforehand

Chek: I've dealt with all those objections too. I have a massive list under rebuttals to common objections that Okiya is Akai. You want 2a and 4a. http://www.detectiveconanworld.com/foru ... entry92343

lol: HOLY S***, you really had three years worth of objections. all i'm saying is, If number one on that list of objections isn't correct, what follows is wrong. In addition, the rebuttal to "Akai is dead" is that there is a plausible way for escape isn't satisfying for me. but i guess ONLY TIME WILL TELL

Chek: @lol. Good luck explaining the disappearing bloodtrails and the magical moving body!

lol: Bottom right panel, you can clearly see blood pouring from the back of his head after the bullet pierced it, don't tell me he put a packet of blood at the back of his cap too! http://dctp.ws/V59-Reader/V59-1Read/A4.html

Chek: Of course he did! If he can make the front look like it's been shot, he can rig up the back of his head to look the same and go off at the same time.

lol: why, to trick the readers of the manga??!! The camera only shows him being shot from the front, so why bother?

Chek: We have seen fake shots before anyway. Sanada Kazumi did it while pretending to be Kaito Kid during the black pearl heist. Get a detonator rigged to a small remote that is hidden in the pocket, a protector and a blood packet. Rig them and and time them to a detonator. A shot from a powerful gun at point blank can be expected to go through someone's head. It would be weird if it didn't, hence the need for blood to spray out the back too. It's not to trick the reader, it's to trick Gin. Rena even referred to the blood pouring from the back of Akai's head in the red shirts case. It's all part of the psychological trap.

skyechan: After all... Akai does keep his hand in his pocket throughout the ordeal...

lol: @Chek and Skyechan : I instantaneously realized he kept his hand in his pocket, but Gin gave her the gun himself and she shot something like a foot in front of his face and by her own admission they had 2 guards following her until she reached pass, so she couldn't have had a chance to switch the bullets

Chek: She was alone in her car though. Any CIA agent worth her salt can unload and load a gun without looking at it. Women particularly have many creative ways of secreting small objects. She was alone, it was dark -especially in a car-, and that camera isn't flawless. She also had plenty of time because Akai conveniently came late. It's also standard procedure to check a gun before using it, especially if someone else gave it to you. She obviously had to unwrap it and take a look at it at some point.

lol: @Chek : Again...as long as there is no evidence we can't say for sure it happened, but what makes me lean towards him really dying is Kir thinking"don't think badly of me". Why would she say that if they had a plan?

Chek: No evidence for what? For Akai not dying there is the bloodtrails, the body moving, Conan, and Okiya. For the use of detonators there is Akai's hand in his pocket. The issue was you said switching out bullets wasn't possible, and I suggested it was. I can't prove when or how she did swapped the bullets, but as long as there is evidence for the blanks, and it's a reasonable hypothesis it works.
the "don't think badly of me" need not be directed at Akai. It could be directed at the FBI she is tricking who will become very depressed when they get the news.

lol: i meant the switching and the prediction that they will immediately assign Kir to kill Akai. How could they foresee that so easily? They might have as all Gosho told us is that they let her go back to just be a spy for them and the "You'd come so far to get me?" akai said? if he knew they were gonna do that why was he surprised?

Chek: As long as I have reasonable proof for a certain conclusion (The shots were fake and Akai was not killed), all I need to is show that any necessary sub-conditions...(Kir used blanks and had to load them at some point) are not impossible or unlikely. Showing probability is better, and I have.  (this was meant to be connected to the answer above)
"You'd come so far to get me" was a line for the camera. He would need to pretend to look surprised on order to trick the camera as well.
nevermind I thought that line was spoken.

lol: That line and "don't think badly of me" were what the characters were thinking. If he was just putting on a show for the camera he wouldn't have said that for sure

Chek: As part of Shuu's internal monologue, the line would then be a commentary on Gin or the Org. Even then though, it doesn't imply that Akai is actually dying. I knew "don't think badly of me" was thought and my answer keeps that in mind. "get me" does not equal "kill me" in any case. The thought works just as well if akai was thinking about how hard they have been trying. In any case, Gosho always aims to trip up people by using ambiguous quotes. Jodie is a perfect example. The real focus should be on the concrete evidence, the actual events. Regarding how Shuu guessed that Kir was going to be assigned to kill him, he didn't need to know for sure, only to prepare for the possibility. Shuu has been in the Org, so he knows how the Org operates and thinks. Akai figured the van plan might not be good enough and Kir would be suspect. He also knew that the incident gave the Org a very good excuse to have an agent meet with him. (I need to leave the Org because they are suspicious of me, I will give info) Akai could not be sure of when it would play out, but could guess at the details of an arrangement. One on one so if it is a trap the FBI can't capture more BO, will involve Kir shooting Akai because it is her loyalty that needs to be tested and guns are normal, will be somewhere secluded, etc. Akai made sure the BO hadn't set up snipers or anything else that would throw off "his and her version" of the plan by scouting in advance. There is also the chance that if the plan didn't work out, Kir would really kill Akai.
I hope that answers everything. I feel like I am monopolizing the cbox quite a bit, so it might be better to take this to the Akai thread in the forum.

[secretbeauty101]

ok, this is my first time posting. first off i think the fake bourbon i.e the guy living in conan's house is actually akai, that's why conan is so alright with him staying there eventho he is so secretive and suspective of everyone who comes his way. however, the real bourbon i have to say is amuro, its just so obvious. when the fake bourbon tried to come out of the car to rescue conan in file 800 one of the tires got shot, however, amuro totally saw this and used it to his advantage inorder to rescue conan. if you notice really well the bridge behind dr. agasa's car is the same bridge vermouth was standing on when she said ok i think you've gained a little trust now. it screams that amuro is soooo bourbon!! come on!! someone has to agree with me. I'm an analyst and this is my job, close reading and have to pay careful attention to details and this is what I came up with.

[kuro_shiro]

ok, this is my first time posting. first off i think the fake bourbon i.e the guy living in conan's house is actually akai, that's why conan is so alright with him staying there eventho he is so secretive and suspective of everyone who comes his way. however, the real bourbon i have to say is amuro, its just so obvious. when the fake bourbon tried to come out of the car to rescue conan in file 800 one of the tires got shot, however, amuro totally saw this and used it to his advantage inorder to rescue conan. if you notice really well the bridge behind dr. agasa's car is the same bridge vermouth was standing on when she said ok i think you've gained a little trust now. it screams that amuro is soooo bourbon!! come on!! someone has to agree with me. I'm an analyst and this is my job, close reading and have to pay careful attention to details and this is what I came up with.

a lot of people also came up with that including me.
but for some unknown reasons, few people think that akai is scar akai and they are ... ....we should not say bad things about fellow members eben if it is true.

PS  read more detailed chekhov 's theories

[MadelineLime]

I still think it would be brilliant if Akai was Subaru, and was also Bourbon, and BO had no idea he pulled the wool over their eyes twice. 

[Stopwatch]

@kuro: What does eben mean?
Still, at least you were somewhat subtle about saying that...  :/