Bourbon / Amuro Tohru's personality, history, and true allegiance

[k11chi]

Nah, Vermouth was most likely helping him disguise...

[The_evilbit]

Jd- you caused me to go back and re-evaluate and rewatch/read the MT series again. I didn't catch it the first go around however Bourbon after seeing what Vermouth had planned for Kid/Shiho did try to save her prior to Akai throwing a high yield explosive at his feet...so I will redact my "rank and file comment" but the rest I still believe currently holds.

We do not know what he has reported yet in the BO or to whom (He may not report to anyone Gin/Vermouth have contact with) but does report to another yet to be named branch etc.

[Chekhov MacGuffin]

@Jd- My read of the mystery train is that Gin is fed up with Vermouth. His sixth sense "traitor alarm" is going off, so he no longer cares about her safety + on top of that he has a bug up his butt about getting Shiho. That said, I do think Gin would have gotten some flack from the boss for killing Vermouth, even if she made her own choice to board the train. Vodka was worried about Vermouth and Bourbon in a casual way. http://www.dctp.ws/V78--Reader/V78-7Read/A6.html

[kriegpaolo_23]

• Amuro doesn't intervene when a suspect he knows to be innocent is half a step from destroying his exonerating evidence because he was testing Kogoro. (Amuro's intro case)

Yeah, I have been reading your post but this has been on my mind for a while now....is this an assumption that you made based on Amuro's perceived high intelligence? I have not seen the anime but I don't think the manga shows explicitly that Amuro knows the suspect is innocent. Correct me if I am wrong....

[Chekhov MacGuffin]

• Amuro doesn't intervene when a suspect he knows to be innocent is half a step from destroying his exonerating evidence because he was testing Kogoro. (Amuro's intro case)

Yeah, I have been reading your post but this has been on my mind for a while now....is this an assumption that you made based on Amuro's perceived high intelligence? I have not seen the anime but I don't think the manga shows explicitly that Amuro knows the suspect is innocent. Correct me if I am wrong....

He manipulates the suspect to collect clues and draw Kogoro's attention to them. He couldn't do this if he didn't know what clues to look for in the first place. The big one was enraging Banba in order to knock him over and show his shoe soles. Amuro asked Kogoro to grab him from behind so he could see the shoes. Amuro is smart enough to know from this and the timing of the rain that this clue exculpates Banba, but he continues to put forward a theory that is incorrect anyway. In this panel where the police about to lead Banba out into the rain which will destroy the evidence, Amuro had the "...", which usually indicates he is thinking about or expecting something. I think he was disappointed Kogoro didn't catch on because it hurts his line of investigation into Shiho if Kogoro is not that good of a detective.
Amuro seemed surprised later that Kogoro did a 180 with his attitude and line of thought thanks to Conan taking over.

[KuwabaraTheMan]

I just can't see Amuro based on his actions so far being an undercover good guy, because so many things he's done simply don't make sense from that angle. Akai was shown to be dangerous because we didn't know he was, but most of his actions were still ultimately just trying to watch out for people. Amuro's involvement with the Mystery Train stuff, and being completely fine with killing Shiho, as well as the Red Shirts case in particular, don't exactly point to someone who has any concern for innocent bystanders.

He could become a Vermouth like person who doesn't necessarily share everything he knows with the rest of the organization, but I'm pretty sure that at least at this point he's fully on the side of the Black Organization and doesn't really have any good intentions with Akai or anyone else involved.

[AICHAN]

@Kuwabara:I agree with you about Amuro not being an undercover good guy.I really think he's a BO member,he grew up with them,but for me he's not a bad guy like Gin for example.
Until now I didn't see Amuro harming innocent poeple.Even during the MT case he didn't intend to kill Ai(even Conan thought it was weird for a BO member to not kill a traitor),he may have had some sort of plan for sherry because he just could have let vermouth kill her,but instead he insisted on taking her with him.He had his own plan that was different from vermouth's plan(killing Sherry)or gin's plan(killing everybody on the train,including Amuro and vermouth).

For now he's a bit aggressive concerning Akai and FBI in general,he may have a "good" reason for hating them that much. So I consider Amuro like a bad guy with good sides,just like Vermouth.

[KudouShini'chi]

Hints about Bourbon's interest on BO have indeed been given. One is his behavior toward Conan and his friends when he first showed up in DC's series. I don't exactly remember what episode it was but there indeed was an episode where the Detective Boy's group (naturally Conan was involved) got trapped in a wagon where they found a dead man. Trying to find an escape way Conan tried to leave hints about their locations to anyone, no, it was especially intended for Amuro to understand, and Amuro's response after he found the hint? He went to their rescue. But why? Why would Bourbon care to go all the way out to rescue them? Not only that, he was the one that insisted in finding the hint when the lady working on Poirot firstly found it and tossed it away, he asked for it and went to look for it. So it's not like he had to pretend to be on their side, he could have just said later 'Oh i never thought this would happen' or something similar. So from this we can say that he WENT THERE ON HIS OWN WILL. But isn't this weird? For someone who is with the BO certainly is. How one uses this hint in his reasoning, it's completely up to him.

[Chekhov MacGuffin]

Xpost from DCW

I think that Amuro's true allegiance is not with BO. Conan had the idea that Amuro could be with the Secret Police (Amuro's relation with the late Wataru can be a proof), so he would have the confidence of revealing the real Akai in his plan because he knows that the guys that are after the FBI are not part of BO. Now, the real mystery for me is why does Amuro want to meet Akai but is not informing the BO about it? If Amuro is really in the BO, then he would have told Gin about the possiblity that Akai is alive and knowing Gin, he will kill Kir right away.

So I think later on, Amuro (and maybe Vermouth) will become "enemy of the bad guys" and will possibly help Conan and Akai taking down the Org. But from this thought alone, I am truly getting the chills from what the BO and their boss is really up to.

I too am questioning Amuro's allegiance based on some of the recent developments. To be clear, I don't think he is a good guy (e.g. a law enforcement infiltrator like Kir), based on what he has done so far. His tactics to lure out Akai are too extreme to be professional. I would expect being raised by or near the Organization would have rubbed off on him some. That doesn't preclude Amuro though from making associations later in life with law enforcement (see Date) that might have altered his allegiance or created chances for him to pursue his own goals behind the Organization's back. We also have Conan's thoughts to think about Amuro didn't aim to kill Shiho on the train. Conan wouldn't have mentioned it if it wasn't important. Conan doesn't know about Amuro and Elena, but there may be more to it than simply "protect Shiho because I knew Elena". I have a feeling that Amuro is badly misguided somehow.

If Amuro does have associations outside the Black Org, I think he might have used them now. In the latest chapter, Amuro's friends (not the reporters in front of the Kudo house) who attempted to intercept the FBI were carrying revolvers rather than pistols. Revolvers tend to be more associated with the police, while the BO we have seen tend to prefer pistols. They also aren't wearing black. Finally, it's unlikely Amuro would have any allies in the BO right now because his theories about Akai being alive are only known to Vermouth and not too popular within the BO. Amuro put Vermouth in a hard spot, so she is not inclined to help. None of these are decisive, but together they do present the suggestion Amuro is using outside help who may be law enforcement of sorts.

Random idea, but what if Amuro is in the process of being cultivated as an informant on the Org by the Japanese secret police? Maybe he was discovered while at police academy because he had parents with secret police and someone recognized him or something like that. I'm going to guess he might be an orphan or similar because usually a child wouldn't run to Elena for treatment if his parents were still around. Maybe Amuro has some misconception about Shuuichi's allegiance, or Shuuichi killed someone for the Organization who turned out to be Japanese police and close to Amuro? The Japanese police might help Amuro if their interests align in order to encourage his cooperation with them. A status as informant would explain this sort of hybrid "does some good things, but still helps the Organization approach" Amuro has been using.

[Kudo Shinchi]

It's interesting to look at this thread now. Gosho got us good with Amuro, even if a couple of people did suspect that he was Secret Police before the reveal. Unlike the case with Okiya and Sera, though, no one was ever 100% certain of it before the reveal. I never expected Gosho to pull a double reveal with Amuro...first Bourbon, then Secret Police. Still, we can't claim it came out of nowhere; the whole police thing with Date was the most blatant foreshadowing of it (and there was a sly mention of the Public Security Bureau in the Sakura case by Haibara).

Anyways, it seems many people have now lost interest in Amuro's character since he's no longer a threat to Conan (for now, anyways). I'm still a bit disappointed with that myself, but Amuro as a character still has my attention. The epilogue to the Scarlet Showdown cemented him as an important plot character, since he seems to be the first character in the entire series to know Vermouth's secret (which has really been brought to the front since Mystery Train, a welcome development, as it was beginning to feel that her story had been abandoned). His connection to Elena is obviously going to be important in the future, as well as his British connections, and we still haven't seen his childhood story as promised by Gosho. Basically, after all this time, we're now just beginning to dig into Amuro's backstory, ironic since his arc is over. It seems he's going to go down the Vermouth route, a character with many mysteries which will be alluded to but not revealed yet. On the bright side, he's still at Poirot, so he's hopefully going to have appearances almost as frequently as Sera, since he's still very much a part of Conan's life.

So, the fact that Amuro is secret police strikes me as a bit odd, since he was likely raised in the Organization. He knew Akai five years ago even though he'd just been activated as Bourbon recently, and he's obviously a lower-ranking member, so he was likely part of the Organization before actually becoming a real agent. He knew Elena, and would have had to be a teenager around that time. So when did he join the Secret Police?

I think Checkhov was on to something about Amuro having a change of heart at some point in his life, likely when he met Date. Maybe he was sent to infiltrate the police force, but when there met Date and changed his perspective on the world, and so decided to work against the Organization. So he didn't really infiltrate the Org as much as he was already a part of them before turning traitor. It probably happened a while back, though, since he was already part of the secret police when Akai was in the Organization five years ago. Obviously, though, being in the Org rubbed off on Amuro. He's not as morally sound as Kir is, for example. He can be pretty cold and calculating at times, and his complete willingness to use Akai's friends as hostages so he could hand him over to the Org is obviously not good. Akai would definitely have been killed, as would have Kir, yet Amuro thought nothing of it. He would be both getting revenge and raising his rank in the Organization, which is all he really cared about.

Also, Amuro's hatred towards Akai. That subplot hasn't been dealt with, only delayed. Amuro still hasn't forgiven Akai, and I suppose we'll see a confrontation play out around the time we find out exactly what happened with Scotch.

[MeiTanteixX]

Obviously, though, being in the Org rubbed off on Amuro. He's not as morally sound as Kir is, for example. He can be pretty cold and calculating at times, and his complete willingness to use Akai's friends as hostages so he could hand him over to the Org is obviously not good. Akai would definitely have been killed, as would have Kir, yet Amuro thought nothing of it. He would be both getting revenge and raising his rank in the Organization, which is all he really cared about.

Akai said that the the secret police had different standpoints compared to the FBI. At first I thought that all his careless behavior was because of the difference to how the secret police handled stuff(risking kir[agent who's already risking her life anyway], and the HATED FBI's life wouldn't really serve as proof to him having ''BO-behavior''), but then...after Thinking through all his deads that contradicted his mission: Almost destroying Banba's(innocent suspect) only evidence to clear himself. *possibly*, planning on ''accidently'' hit an innocent woman with a car. And I don't have to mention his intention of violently abuse a woman(Shiho)....that made me re-evaluate rei.. x)

[rocketpropelledbear]

em...so does Amruo's true allegiance lies with the Tokyo Metropolitan Police Department Public Security Bureau or the Public Security Intelligence Agency? On an unrelated note, anyone knows the difference in these two organisations' roles cause they look pretty similar in terms of purpose to me (intelligence agency?)

[jimmy_kud0_tv2]

em...so does Amruo's true allegiance lies with the Tokyo Metropolitan Police Department Public Security Bureau or the Public Security Intelligence Agency? On an unrelated note, anyone knows the difference in these two organisations' roles cause they look pretty similar in terms of purpose to me (intelligence agency?)

When searching around for the phrases Conan used when he is talking about the organization that Amuro might be attached to, he uses the phrase (Kouan Keisatsu no Zoukushou). After searching that phrase in Japanese, along with "Zero" in Japanese, I ended up at the Japanese wikipedia page for a Japanese police agency with no official name that has been nicknamed "Chiyoda" and "Zero" : http://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E3%83%81% ... 5%AF%9F%29 .... A lot of the data on this Japanese wiki page doesn't seem to line up with the ones you posted. However this one does have the information about being code named "Zero".

[rocketpropelledbear]

em...so does Amruo's true allegiance lies with the Tokyo Metropolitan Police Department Public Security Bureau or the Public Security Intelligence Agency? On an unrelated note, anyone knows the difference in these two organisations' roles cause they look pretty similar in terms of purpose to me (intelligence agency?)

When searching around for the phrases Conan used when he is talking about the organization that Amuro might be attached to, he uses the phrase (Kouan Keisatsu no Zoukushou). After searching that phrase in Japanese, along with "Zero" in Japanese, I ended up at the Japanese wikipedia page for a Japanese police agency with no official name that has been nicknamed "Chiyoda" and "Zero" : http://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E3%83%81% ... 5%AF%9F%29 .... A lot of the data on this Japanese wiki page doesn't seem to line up with the ones you posted. However this one does have the information about being code named "Zero".

Now I am even more confused, from the crappy google translate I think Amuro must be under one of the two I listed, I think they are called 'zero' collectively or something like that. I mean they are all intelligence agencies right?

[Black Demon]

I've also been trying to do some readings regarding Amuro's organization but couldn't get far since my Japanese is really lousy. I just hope that I haven't made any mistake or misconception about the things that I do understand though. I hope someone with decent Japanese knowledge and/or better understanding of Japanese law enforcement can help me with these researches, and fill me in on something I might have missed, even if Wikipedia is the only source for information.

So first I searched Kouan Keisatsu (公安警察) on Wikipedia - which DCTP translated as "Secret Police" - because that's the least vague term used in the manga, even though that doesn't quite sound like an official name for an organization.
It appears that 公安警察 is the lead force of the Security Bureau of National Police Agency (警察庁警備局), and is organized from Tokyo Metropolitan Police Department Public Security Bureau/PSB (警視庁公安部) and the security departments from prefecture (and lower) police organizations:

警察庁警備局を頂点に、警視庁公安部・各道府県警察本部警備部・所轄警察署警備課で組織される。

PSB also appears to hold the largest number of 公安警察 officers:

．．．日本の公安警察の中では最大の組織である。

which is also mentioned in PSB's own Japanese article:

日本の公安警察は警察庁警備局の指揮で活動しているが、中でも警視庁は唯一、公安部を置いており、最大規模の公安警察官を抱えている。

So if Amuro is a 公安警察 officer, what is certain is that he's from NPA Security Bureau (警察庁警備局). Coincidentally, NPA is also the agency Kuroda was transferred from, and apparently where he heard the rumors about Conan. Since 公安警察 consists of PSB, and due to the fact that the majority of 公安警察 officers come from there as mentioned above, i think Amuro has a high chance of belonging to PSB. That, however, is neither 100% certain nor canonically confirmed. I haven't found anything that indicate a direct connection between 公安警察 and PSIA among these information yet, but again I could be mistaken.

I don't understand much about the "Chiyoda/Zero" thing though. It seems to refer to a specific team/group/sector within NPA Security Bureau (警察庁警備局) that deals with collecting information/intelligent and management?

チヨダとは、日本の公安警察で協力者運営などの情報収集（作業と呼ぶ）の統括を担当する係。

警察庁警備局警備企画課に属しており、任務は全国で行われる協力者運営の管理と警視庁公安部・各道府県警察本部警備部に存在する直轄部隊（作業班などと呼ばれる）への指示と教育である。

On a related note, even though Amuro did react to the word "Zero", I don't think it's ever been confirmed that he's in fact a Zero (if that makes sense lol). It could just have been because that's his nickname or something.