Anokata theory: The boss may be...

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Chekhov MacGuffin
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Re: Anokata theory: The boss may be...

Post by Chekhov MacGuffin »

kholoudsafir wrote:I just thought to give this link to this old topic for those who are new:


viewtopic.php?f=5&t=2745&hilit=Yoko+Okino&start=15

It is a comprehensive discussion about the possibility of Yoko being the boss
First post of that thread where Texascoffeegirl posted her theory is dead. If a mod could fix it that would be nice. Here is the transcript just in case.
Spoiler: first post
It's the first and probably last time, I open a thread. I am a fan of Detective Conan for over a decade now. Just a couple months ago, when we moved to our new home, I found my old DC mangas. Out of boredom and curiosity, I started reading the first Volumes again, caught the old “who is the big boss”-fever and ended up reading them all in a row. Yeah, all of them. Took me two weeks. Now I'm here, with a cup of coffee and in the mood, to share my funny and weird thoughts. No, I wont discuss what was discussed thousands of times in other forums.

I base my upcoming gibberish only on the mangas and the infamous interview Aoyama's in 2006 http://www.animey.net/specials/42 , where Aoyama said something that made me thinking. No, not the whole “Ai will be surprised'-whatever thing.
At some point, Aoyama was asked about the success of Detective Conan and whether he expected DC to last so many years.
No, of course, he didn't. How could he? Indeed, he thought DC will end after a couple of months or Volumes. So far, nothing unusual, but while reading the first chapters of DC, I realized: when those chapters were published, Aoyama had thought the story to end soon. Why is it important? Because that means Aoyama most likely dropped some important hints pointing to the BO very early. Actually, he dropped maybe 'one hint' within the first six chapters.

(BTW, reading all 700something chapters in a row, I have the impression, that maybe a year or a little bit more has passed in the story line. I know, sounds unbelievable, but that is the impression you get if you read everything in a row and not in a decade...)

We can assume, that Aoyama is a professional (lol, it's really late), meaning he had a rough story outline from the very beginning. The concept of Conan, Kogoro, the BO, them being an international organization leading at some point to the US. It helps that Shinichi's parents lived in the US and that being mentioned right away in the first chapter. It opened the international doors early. And before I go back to that maybe'hint', let me emphasize one of Aoyama's drawing styles: smoking. Certain characters or character-types smoke in the story. The cool (like Akai, Matsuda and some suspects) and the dangerous (like Akai and most of the BO, some other murderers). Well, and Kogoro. But he is another story. I think, we have seen pretty much all BO members smoking and drinking alcohol. In the DC universe, the purely innocent don't smoke and drink.

Which brings me to my key figure, my Irene Adler, so to say: Yoko Okino.

Yeah, keep laughing but keep on reading, I bet you will be a bit surprised.

It starts in chapter 6 Vol. 1, three days after the BO 'killed' Kudo Shinichi. Conan is eager to do something, but is advised by Prof. Agasa to keep his head down. Agasa: “If they find out, your body never showed up, they'll come looking for you. Just wait until then. You mustn't get impatient and make the first move.”

Well, if I learned one thing in the DC universe, it is when a case starts with a discussion about the BO, the case most likely is about the BO. So, Conan waits for their move – and meets Yoko Okino in Kogoro's office. I think it is amazing, that this woman/minor character was introduced so early, but than again it is not important. Something else is. Remember the first Yoko Okino case. The stalker who was killed/committed suicide in her apartment but turns out it was her former boyfriend from high school? So, short before Yoko, Kogoro, Conan and Co go to Yoko's apartment, Yoko's manager says to super-excited Kogoro to keep his voice down, cause nobody knows that Yoko Okino lives in that huge apartment complex. It is a secret. Indeed, Yoko states she moved to this apartment secretly cause she wanted to get away from the stalker. Since it was kept a secret, we can assume Yoko wasn't running around and telling people were she lives. We can assume, she didn't have many guests. The character of Yoko Okino seems to be the one of a beautiful, innocent (like Kogoro always states) young woman aka successful actress, scared, you know the story. The group enters her apartment, finds the murdered stalker and makes the first suspect, a female actress co-worker of Yoko, to come by to the apartment, too. She makes herself suspicious cause she uses that statue that was indeed a lighter and so on and so on. That is not the point. The point are three things that are not 'right' in Yoko Okino's apartment.

1.First of all. The lighter statue is the Statue of Liberty. Why would an innocent person like Yoko Okino whom we never seen smoking have a lighter in the form of the statue of liberty? The lighter indeed looks like something people would buy as a souvenir, very specific. Was Yoko Okino in New York and brought herself a souvenir? Maybe, but bot likely, cause a non-smoker would buy something else. Unless, somebody else she knew was in New York and brought her the lighter souvenir. Somebody, who smokes, somebody who visits Yoko on a regular base and misses a lighter in her apartment... well, who do we know lived in New York at this time, smokes, comes to Japan every now and then and is a famous colleague of Yoko, by herself? Name it, you get it.

2.Which leads to me to point number two. Chapter 9, Vol. 1 page 3, there is an ashtray on the table, right in front of the couch, where the lighter was nearby. Somebody sits on the couch, using the lighter. BTW, it is the same ashtray, Conan uses to knock out Kogoro since he doesn't have the tranquilizer-watch yet.

3.When Conan uses the ashtray, it is seen, that there are three cigarettes in there. Kogoro smokes one cigarette, but he is still holding on to his cigarette. The other female suspect smokes too, but she lost her cigarette shortly after lightening it. You can see her long, unsmoked cigarette in the ashtray. That leaves two other cigarettes in the ashtray that must have been there before Kogoro, Conan and Co arrived. We can assume, that our suspicious “smoker” (hello X-files) visited Yoko Okino shortly before. Well, it might have been the female co-worker, but she was careful not to be seen in Yoko's apartment. Why would she smoke in Yoko's apartment and leaving traces that somebody was there? And Yoko didn't seem bothered at all with cigarettes in the ashtrey.

To summarize, there is this young charming and recurring actress Yoko Okino with a New York souvenir in her apartment, an astray, although she doesn't smoke or smokes secretly (which would make her even more suspicious in the DC-universe). She contacts Mouri three days after Kudo was murdered and no body was found. She comes well along with Ran. Too many coincidences come together in one case, if you ask me.

And it doesn't stop there.

In Vol. 10, chap. 5, Shinichi Kudo appears again after drinking the Chines. alcohol. Vol.11 chap. 4 Conan is in serious trouble because of Kogoro who suspects Conan, but Kogoro is suddenly distracted by Yoko Okino who pops up at the Nichiura TV studio to see Kogoro. It is not a big thing, I know, but I think it is worth mentioning that she pops up at Nichiura TV, saying she works there and wanted to see Kogoro.

Throughout the story, Yoko Okino pops up on TV, radio, poster and so on and so on.

Vol. 48, chap. 9 page 3. When Yoko Okino uses her cell phone in front of Conan, Conan has a flashback of Vermouth. He blames it on him getting paranoid. What if he's not?

Same Vol. Same chapter, it is Yoko Okino who introduces Rena Mizunashi to Kogoro Mori, saying they are friends/colleagues. For crying out load, it was her, who invited Kogoro to the TV studio in the first place and made it possible, that they ran into Rena Mizunashi. Page 4, she literary drags Rena to Kogoro. It was Yoko who suggested to Kogoro to stop by at Rena's apartment. And for some reason, she mentions that she wont tag along with them cause she has work to do. How convenient is that? And has anybody ever paid attention to the older guy on page 5, who shows obvious interest in the conversation on the next table? Older dude, black suit, smoking?

Vol.53 chap. 552 page 16, Kogoro states he got many requests from Yoko Okino.

Chap. 562 page 7, Kogoro calls Yoko … he has her phone number.

Chap. 591 page 3, Yoko Okino doesn't trigger Ai's BO sense.

Chap. 595, Kogoro is watching TV, Yoko Okino sings, while she sings, crows are noisy outside … Kogoro starts humming the seven children song... this really is just coincidence...

… but throw everything together and keep in mind that Irene Adler was a beautiful actress, somebody who tricked Holmes till the very last second of the case... .


Is there somebody else out there, who thinks that this is weird (I mean Yoko, not me writing a novel at two o'clock in the morning.)?
Spoiler: second post
Well, I'm glad I found some people who think the first Yoko Okino Arc is as suspicious as I do :-). It really seems to point to our little Miss actress being a BO-member, however there might be another possibility too, which is, I admit extremely far fetched and solely based on a few biography datas and a single snapshot.

The following words are just spiderwebs of my brain which is on vacation right now and likes to come up with some funny ideas so don't take me too serious on that one ;-)))

First of all, I don't think, Yoko Okino is the Boss :-), though I start to believe, she is somebody else than she pretends to be.

There is a really far fetched possibility of an Okino-Akai connection.

Akai had a thing for Akemi, a young, beautiful, innocent and yet strong woman. Ai Haibara stated that there are lots of similarities between her older sister Akemi and Ran, not just the outward appearance but the character. In Vol. 37, chapt. 7, Ran and Conan met Shuichi Akai (Conan didn't know at this point who Akai was, but Ran tells him after their little encounter she thinks he might be an FBI agent). At this time, Akai and Jodie had an eye on the Mouri agency. They kept their distance to the Mouris, the observations were happening to be undercover. Yet, Akai talks to Ran, not denying they have met before. The conversation was like this:

“You are crying again.”
Ran: “Eh?”
Akai: “You are always crying.”
Ran: “Is it wrong?”
Akai: “No... I was just remembering... You remind me of a woman... a stupid woman that was always crying in the dark while trying to sound casual...”

That was unnecessary and Akai isn't that type of guy who does unnecessary things. Ran just reminded him on Akemi – and he loved Akemi. And yeah, he assumed Ran isn't that stupid either and able to do the connections between him and the FBI hunt back in New York.

Well, lets go a step further. When Akai arrived in Japan in Vol. 32 chap. XX and the following, he says he wants to make his girlfriend who dumped him cry (with tears of blood). Yeah I know, the infamous quote, that was taking apart by fans thousands of times.

That 'girlfriend' , he is talking about, is most likely not Akemi – who is 1. dead for a year now and 2. they ended the contact in the first place to not harm her. The 'girlfriend' is somebody else than Akemi. In Vol. 29 chap. 5 page 18, after the bus-hijacking-case, Akai states that their target didn't show up, although Vermouth was right in front of them. Vermouth aka Araide was supposed to meet somebody in the bus who didn't show up because of the hijack. Who is that other person, Akai and Jodie were waiting for? Is it Gin or the 'girlfriend', Akai mentioned to James Black? I mean, they (Akai and Jodie) expected the target to show up, that means it rules Sherry as the target completely out, cause at this time, they had no idea where Sherry is. Akai most likely got a tip, that the target will show up there. And what about chap. 677, where Jodie has a flashback of Akai telling her that he loves two woman at the same time. Well, many people assume, that the other woman is Jodie, since she seems to have some feelings for Akai too, but than again that other woman could be the so said 'girlfriend', who dumped him.

Akai came from the US to look for this 'girlfriend', or so he stated. We can assume, that this 'girlfriend' (which can be just a metaphor for his female enemy?) was at some point in the US and than took off to Japan, where Akai followed her later. It was 2 years ago in the story line, when Akemi and Akai broke up. A year ago, at the “golden apple case', Akai was still in New York. Could Akai have another girlfriend there? I mean within the two years after he broke up with Akemi and while he was in the US? Possible. Possibly in New York. Do we know somebody, a woman around Akemi's age, beautiful, kind of innocent but yet strong (quote Ran, Vol. 1 chapt. 9 page12: “She's so strong, already back on her feet after what happened to her!” )... you know, Akai's type of woman? A woman, that can be thrown in one tin can with Akemi and Ran? A woman with a New York connection? I admit, Yoko Okino is reaaaally far fetched and most likely a very impossible theory, but then again, there is something else that is bothering me. I cant really find it anymore, but at one point Jodie stated that Akai's information about the BO are always true and correct, though they (Jodie) don't know where he got his information from.

No wait, I found it: chapt. 595 page 11, Jodie: “I mean Akai-kun. He found conclusive evidence that Ethan Hondou is a CIA agent actually... I don't know how he got that, but the evidence that he produces has never been wrong, not even once.”

That sounds like he has an anonymous informant, or at least another way to get his information that is worth being protected even from Jodie.

Back to the first Yoko Okino case. Her former boyfriend was 22 years old. The age of Yoko Okino is never mentioned, but since they went to High School together, we can assume Yoko is around that age too (which would put her with Akemi in one age group). The boyfriend dumped her in High School (forced by the manager), cause she was a raising star-idol, meaning she was about 17 or 18 years old back then.

In Vol. 32 chapt. 5 page 5 we can see Yoko wearing glasses (woman wearing glasses are always a handful in the DC universe: Vermouth/Araide, Jodie, Eri ).

In Vol. 32 chapt. 5 and the following: It is said that a while ago Yoko was a member of a very successful girl band, who broke up though. The girls are all together not very old (at the beginning of their 20s). Meaning, between Yoko becoming successful most likely while she was still in High School and where she is now (with 22), there seem to be a few years, where she easily could have spent some time in New York.

Just for fun, let's assume, Okino is the mysterious girlfriend who dumped Akai and went back to Japan, then it would makes sense what Akai and Black said (him tying to get the girlfriend back and making her suffer and so). Akai and Jodie mention on several occasions, that they are aiming for another target to show up who is not Vermouth or Gin.

It would make sense, why it is so important for Akai to pretend to be dead, because if Yoko and him really had a 'thing' for each other one or two years ago, which ended when she went back to Japan and continued being a famous star and being always in public, she must know that Shuichi Akai sooner or later will come after her. So she would be very, very careful with what she is doing.

However, with Akai being dead, she doesn't have to be that careful.

Chap. 678 (the bank robbery case, where the dead Akai pops up again) page 11, check out the female hostage, who received the honor by Gosho, to get her own little picture without facial details. If this is our little Yoko in the bank (in disguise), it would explain why Akai was in the bank in the first place.

It would explain what Akai/Okiya (if they are the same person )said in chapt 704 page 16: “Unfortunately, he wasn't who I thought he was, so I didn't talk to him. I've known his face for a very long time … there is no way, I could be mistaken.”
If we throw Yoko in this picture, we might ask ourselves, if Akai thought that the fake Akai and the person he followed to the bank before are both Yoko Okino in disguise. The idea is: Did Akai believe that Okino is Bourbon? And if Okino is a high BO member and therefore equipped with some brain and therefore being extremely suspicious after the bank-robbery video footage shows up with a very lively Akai, would she just simply disguise as Akai himself to lure him and his colleagues out? Apropos colleague. Don't you think it is weird, that the warning letter given to Jodie (by the fake Akai to lure her out?) in chap. 700 page 13 has a weird hand writing for a grown up man (or was it done by the scanlators?).

So, Is Okino BO?

Is Okino maybe even Bourbon?

Or is Okino just another member of the BO and the secret informant of Akai? Would that make Akai the mysterious smoker in Okino's apartment?

As an actress, she might be able to disguise like Vermouth and Yukiko. Possible, she learned it from Vermouth herself. I just say, that her young age shouldn't rule her out for being a high BO member. Let's not forget that Sherry herself was barely 19... taking into consideration that she grew up with the BO.

Well, let's just say, I have a way too much time on my hands right now :-))) So please don't take my “Okino is Akai's other girlfriend” babble way too serious.

I do believe though, Okino has connections to the BO.

PS: Irene Adler was an opera singer first and then an actress. Keep that in mind.

Oh, geez... I wrote a novel AGAIN.

PPS: English is not my mother language, please don't mind my mistakes...
I don't agree with this theory btw.
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Shiromi

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Re: Anokata theory: The boss may be...

Post by Shiromi »

I have a crazy theory about who Anokata is, and I surprisingly don't see it as often as I've seen some of the weirder ones.

Here are some guesses I've made about the nature of the organization, feel free to critique them, please:

The secrecy is weird. The trigger-happy nature of the Organization makes it not like a gang or a mafia or the yakuza, who want themselves known and want to do shady business with as many people as they can. This organization feels more like a cult to me. They keep their members for life, and they keep their members families as well. There seems to be an idiological spine to the organization too... it's goal isn't to make money, but to accomplish something specific. That something is probably tied to the Miyanos' research, either a panacea or bid for immortality, or both. I noticed that the Baigar antidote works when Conan has a cold, so it may have a connection to the immune system. The de-aging affect could be connected to the goal of stopping aging from happening. There's also Sherry's comments about going against the stream of time, and Vermouth's quote about raising the dead. Then there's the computer researcher who specializes in some sort of simulation programming. Though not easily linked right away, I think that the organization, at least the ones running it, are part of a small trans-humanist cult.

Which leads me to my theory: Anokata is someone in the Suzuki family, or at least has close ties to the Suzuki family.

They have the money and power to have a set of scientists working on private projects for them. Setting up secret crime syndicates doesn't come cheep, after all.
They have a legitimate, non-crime face so they get people like the Miyanos to trust them.
They were introduced early into the story, which wasn't going to be as long running, or likely anywhere near as complex as it has become.
And, probably the silliest, but perhaps best evidence: the name Sonoko. It can be a pun meaning, "that child". (Japanese demonstrative adjectives: "ano" far away from listener and speaker. "sono" far from the speaker. "kono" close to the speaker.) If Anokata had a hand in naming her, it could be an in-joke to them.

I don't think that the entire Suzuki family is involved, or knows even most of what Anokata is up to. Sonoko, for example, is not the sort of person to be comfortable with the organization's activities, but it could be something that will be told to her when she reaches a certain age. As I remember, her older sister is getting married and refusing to join the family business, but I may be misremembering things here.

I also think that there could have been more than one Anokata over the years, and the organization may have its roots further back in history, than just 50 years. Drugs and computer simulations might just be the latest version of their quest.

Does that make any sense whatsoever?
My DC Fanfic: Awaking and Arising - Shiromi writes her version of the end of the series. With 100% more lesbians and immortal zombie boys. And existential crises. Lots of them.
Kogorou - A character study that seeks to answer the question: Why is Kogorou the way he is?
A Kindred Spirit - Sonoko and Makoto realize that they have more in common than previously realized.
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Shinichi Edogawa

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Re: Anokata theory: The boss may be...

Post by Shinichi Edogawa »

Your theory about the plot and the trans-humanist cult is very good, and it would be more consistent and developed than a simple organisation which wants immortality.. But there is a problem with your theory with the suzuki family, in volume 78 gin was happy to see members of this family at the train station where an explosion was supposed to happen. I think that gosho make it intentionally to drop the theory about the connection between suzuki family and the Black Organisation.

For anokata, I think that Renya Karasuma created the BO and then died, after his death anokata took his place.
Or maybe anokata created the BO after the death of Karasuma because he wants to raise him from the dead.
There is a link between Karasuma supposed death and the begining of organisation research.
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usotsuki

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Re: Anokata theory: The boss may be...

Post by usotsuki »

Transhumanism. Given the deaging stuff and the computer stuff connected with it in 307-311, it's quite possible.
Spoiler:
I kinda wonder about this Rentaro Daikoku name that's come up
The only way of discovering the limits of the possible is to venture a little way past them into the impossible. Arthur C. Clarke
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soul_dreamer

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Re: Anokata theory: The boss may be...

Post by soul_dreamer »

I actually wonder, considering that there are 'theories against' for different characters to be the boss, e.g. Yoko Okino, Kogorou Mouri etc, whether fans expect to be the boss, whose never appeared or they were only be mentioned once or twice or appeared once or only their name appear somewhere like in the guestbook from the Mermaid Case.

I will be disappointment, if the boss would turn out to be some random person. I don't mind, if the boss is Miyano Atsushi, who only was mentioned few times, because it would be very surprising for him to be the boss, but then again there are theories against for him to be the boss.

I also like the idea, which Chekhov said about the boss being the old man, who is stuck in his child form (I know it is not really a theory), but then again I would not like some random child that we never saw before to be the boss.

There is also a theory of Sharon's husband to be the boss, which is interesting, but he is also kind of random character, since we never really saw him before.

Basically my question is, do you expect that the boss would be some random person or a well-known character? I actually remembered about Chekhov saying about Kogorou's family background and that there is possibility that one of his member family is connected to the organization (I don't believe in Kogorou being the boss or be part of it). Even though, we never heard of his family, it would be still interesting if, somebody of Kogorou's family turn out to be the boss, since they are connected to one of the main character. I also want to add that, even if the boss turn out be, for example, Atsushi, I would like to have the logical reasoning for him to be the boss. Well, I probably just expect too much.
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makoto
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Re: Anokata theory: The boss may be...

Post by makoto »

soul_dreamer wrote:I actually wonder, considering that there are 'theories against' for different characters to be the boss, e.g. Yoko Okino, Kogorou Mouri etc, whether fans expect to be the boss, whose never appeared or they were only be mentioned once or twice or appeared once or only their name appear somewhere like in the guestbook from the Mermaid Case.

I will be disappointment, if the boss would turn out to be some random person. I don't mind, if the boss is Miyano Atsushi, who only was mentioned few times, because it would be very surprising for him to be the boss, but then again there are theories against for him to be the boss.

I also like the idea, which Chekhov said about the boss being the old man, who is stuck in his child form (I know it is not really a theory), but then again I would not like some random child that we never saw before to be the boss.

There is also a theory of Sharon's husband to be the boss, which is interesting, but he is also kind of random character, since we never really saw him before.

Basically my question is, do you expect that the boss would be some random person or a well-known character? I actually remembered about Chekhov saying about Kogorou's family background and that there is possibility that one of his member family is connected to the organization (I don't believe in Kogorou being the boss or be part of it). Even though, we never heard of his family, it would be still interesting if, somebody of Kogorou's family turn out to be the boss, since they are connected to one of the main character. I also want to add that, even if the boss turn out be, for example, Atsushi, I would like to have the logical reasoning for him to be the boss. Well, I probably just expect too much.

i expect someone we at least will auto remeber once we see or name is truly mentioned for a surprise effect

also sometime the suspect with the strongest alibi is the culprit i don't exclude anyone from the boss suspects yet (exept the confirmed not being the boss by gosho)
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sakuratatsumi

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Re: Anokata theory: The boss may be...

Post by sakuratatsumi »

Well, I might be crazy, but personally, I think it might be Okino Yoko.
Come on. She has seen Ai's face, and Gosho said that the boss's name has appeared in the manga, and he thought DC will lasts only 3 months, so probably the Boss's name is in the early books. Probably.
She's rich, right? And she has the same pose as Vermouth when she types on the phone.
But I feel really bad for Kogoro if Yoko is Anokata, lol. He's going be like :o and then :'(
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k11chi

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Re: Anokata theory: The boss may be...

Post by k11chi »

sakuratatsumi wrote:Well, I might be crazy, but personally, I think it might be Okino Yoko.
Come on. She has seen Ai's face, and Gosho said that the boss's name has appeared in the manga, and he thought DC will lasts only 3 months, so probably the Boss's name is in the early books. Probably.
She's rich, right? And she has the same pose as Vermouth when she types on the phone.
But I feel really bad for Kogoro if Yoko is Anokata, lol. He's going be like :o and then :'(
Then again Yukiko is also very similar to Vermouth
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usotsuki

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Re: Anokata theory: The boss may be...

Post by usotsuki »

I still go with
Spoiler:
Rentaro Daikoku, because the last name is spelled like "Big Black" and is the name of a building associated with the men in black in episode 54.
I think his name was on the rolls in the mermaids case?
The only way of discovering the limits of the possible is to venture a little way past them into the impossible. Arthur C. Clarke
SAOhikari

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Re: Anokata theory: The boss may be...

Post by SAOhikari »

My theory will possibly cancel out 80% of the theories out there. Considering the information Vermouth said about the boss being very careful, I'm guessing the boss is someone who doesn't know that Shinichi is still alive (meaning anyone who knows Conan's identity and the people who've seen Shinichi after he turned into Conan is out. This cancels out Agasa, Shinichi's parents, most of the police, Hattori, Haibara, Detective Boys, and whoever else you can think of). Reason for this is because if the boss knew Shinichi was still alive then he/she would've told the BO members and made them look for Shinichi, because there's a risk that Conan would've told the police or whoever you can think of, revealing the BO to public (I'm pretty sure the boss would love to prevent that...). Also, Gosho stated that the boss's name was mentioned in the early chapters of Conan (doesn't mean they appeared in person). So, taking a really wild guess, I'm gonna say that the boss is Okino Yoko
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soul_dreamer

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Re: Anokata theory: The boss may be...

Post by soul_dreamer »

I actually started wonder why the boss didn't take any further actions to make sure that Kudo Shinichi is dead. I apologize in advance, if somebody mentioned about it before (I admit it, I'm too lazy to go through 23 pages).

We know that the boss sent investigator teams to Shinichi's house twice, but don't you think it's weird that the boss so easily accepted the fact that Shinichi is dead, only because there was no signs of anybody being in Shinichi's house.

We know already that the boss considered the idea that Shinichi might survive, they wouldn't send investigator teams, if they wouldn't. The boss is the smart person, right? So, why they wouldn't came up with the idea that Shinichi didn't come back to his house or he was there only once to take few stuff. Neither the boss nor bo's members were in the Kudo's house before, so they don't know what stuff, he has in his house, if few clothes would vanish, I doubt they would notice it, besides, I think, if Shinichi would not shrink, Agasa would warn him not to take any of his stuff, since they might notice it.

The other thing is even if the boss believed in Shinichi's death, then the boss should wonder about what happened to Kudo's body. He was killed at Tropical Land, the place, where many people goes and have guards, so his body should be discovered right away and on the next day, the fact about his death should be all over the news. The boss might think that somebody found Shinichi's body, perhaps, police, since they were before at the Tropical Land, because of the case, but they decided to hide the fact that Shinichi died in order to lure his killers out.

Vermouth said in the file 704 that the boss is a cautious person, who can ruin the plan by over-thinking it, so the boss should just thought, that since Kudo is dead, there is no reason for them to investigate any further and risk the BO exposure and besides there was no signs of infiltration, at least, at the beginning.

There was situation with Sherry's escape and Gin said in the file 181 that they investigate whether there was any rats helping Shiho to escape. I'm not saying that the boss thought that Shinichi was the one, who rescued her, but then the boss has the idea that there is somebody, who can be the threat to the organization. The boss could think (as Chekhov mentioned before) that it could be Akai, who rescued her.

Now, the hotel party murder case, where Gin was trying to kill Shiho on rooftop and suddenly somebody shouted to her to go to chimney and shoot Gin with a needle who almost made him fall asleep. Now assuming, that the boss thought that Akai or anyone from FBI was the one, who helped Sherry to escape from the gas chamber. It is easy to assume for the boss and Gin thought that it was Akai who rescued her, but Gin should tell from the Shiho's rescuer's actions that it wasn't Akai or any FBI member, who saved Shiho in that hotel. FBI would rather use guns instead of a sleeping needle. I assume that the Gin reported everything in details about what happened, so the boss could assume that there is somebody, other than FBI, who knows about the BO.

The other case is footsteps of darkness, where Gin is sure that there is somebody, who took interest of BO. Gin, who is loyal to the boss, would definitely tell the boss about what happened.

Now, let's back to Shinichi's case. In my opinion, the boss shouldn't just assume that Shinichi died, they should consider the fact that Kudo could actually be alive. In this case, why didn't the boss tell Gin and others about their suspicions about Kudo being alive? The boss could them that since there was no body found, there is a chance that Kudo could still be alive. It's true that there are articles in newspaper about possibility of Shinichi being murdered, but let's face it, if anybody as famous as Kudo Shinichi would vanish without trace, it is obvious that reporters would do story of it and the boss should be smart enough and not believe in these articles.

There are few reasons in my opinion, why the boss took no further actions to check whether Kudo is dead or not.

First, the boss simply accepted that Kudo Shinichi died. The problem, I have with it, it is that the boss too quickly accepted it, only because there were no signs of anybody being Shinichi's house, which I mentioned before.

Second, the boss has the suspicions about Shinichi being alive, but the boss decided not to do anything about it. The reason for it could be that the boss thinks that any further actions could expose the organization, but doing nothing is also too careless. I guees it goes with overthinking.

Third, the boss took further actions, but we readers don't know about it, but there is no really evidence for it (I think) so it is rather unlikely.

Fourth, the boss knows that Shinichi shrunk. However, if that was the case, then the boss would also know about Shiho.

I was thinking that if the boss is child who stuck in child form for 50 years (I like the theory about the boss being a child :) ), then maybe the boss didn't do anything, because Shinichi is now in the same situation as them, so they might actually enjoying that they are not the only one.

Well obviously, the boss' priority is to keep the organization in secret, so they should kill Conan right away, but if the boss spied on Conan, he would know that the same as FBI, Conan has decided not to tell anyone about the BO.

Of course, there are some people, who found out about BO from Conan (most in cases, Conan had no choice and he had to tell them or they found out on their own or from somebody else) like Heiji, Shinichi's parents, Agasa. Well if the boss spied on Conan enough to know about those people, then they should do something about it right. However, Heiji's death would cause his father very furious and Heizo would do anything to find out who murdered his son and the boss also could think that killing Conan's friend could make him angry enough to reveal about the organization's existence to the police and the boss would rather want to avoid it.

Shinichi's parents well most of the time, they live in America and again the boss who is too cautious could think that killing them would cause more harm than good, the same goes to Agasa.

The other problem is why the boss didn't tell Vermouth about what he knows and not order her to kill Ai. The reason could be the same as for Conan. The boss is probably enjoying Ai dealing with being a child. The boss sent their men to kill Shiho, simply because they don't want to make themselves suspicious. If the boss is a child, then the only person who know about is Vermouth and perhaps Gin. If the boss would not do anything about Sherry's escape, then it would make them suspicious.

The problem with it, it is why the boss didn't tell Vermouth, who is their favourite about it. I would find funny if both the boss and Vermouth would know about Conan and Ai's condition, but they would not tell each other for their own reasons.

If the boss is a child and I mentioned before that I would like for the boss being somebody, who would shock us, my vote would go to Ayumi. I know there is lots of whys she couldn't be the boss and I'm not saying that Ayumi is 100% the boss is just an idea, which probably is wrong.

In conclusion, I would like to say that I would like to know, if there is a reason for the boss not taking more actions in Shinichi's case, considering that his body wasn't found or maybe the boss simply thinks that Shinichi is indeed dead.
Patrick

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Re: Anokata theory: The boss may be...

Post by Patrick »

Even if the boss is described as overly cautious, making Shinichi take the poison wasn't a planned mission at all, he just happened to be eavesdropping the wrong guys and they had to take him out. Hence, even if they haven't found conclusive evidence to determine if he's dead or not, I suppose it's not one of their main targets. Clearly Gin knows something's going on since he has said so himself, but whether or not he has managed to relate both events is not clear. As much as they investigated his house twice and didn't find any sign of him still residing there, Ai changed his status as Deceased (although that could be irrelevant since she deserted them and therefore that file could still be pending confirmation). However, Shinichi has made several appearances in public and despite trying to be discrete every time, some word must have reached the organization that he is still alive whether by some media or some random photograph, let's not forget these guys have enough resources. So they probably know something's up, but might not yet see the grasp of it.
Personally, I think the BO hasn't figured out he shrunk, or we would have seen any kind of sign of them trying to hurt/extort those close to Shinichi like prof. Agasa, Ran, etc in order to obtain some information. They're probably very close now Amuro's in play but we have yet to see how is he going to procede in his actions.
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soul_dreamer

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Re: Anokata theory: The boss may be...

Post by soul_dreamer »

I understand that Shinichi's 'death' wasn't planned and he never been their main target. However, Kudo Shinichi was the famous detective and IF the boss was suspicious whether he died or not, he should be concerned, because Shinichi was working often with the police and we know the boss would like to avoid any contact with the police.

Like you said, BO might already find out or is suspicious at least that Shinichi is still alive through media, but they still cannot really see through it (they might think that these information are not worth of attention - media is not always telling the truth), maybe the boss don't do anything, because they are not one hundred percentage sure, so he prefer just do nothing. They might think that the Shinichi's body disappearance could be a trap for BO by perhaps FBI.

Like I said before, there are different possibilities why the boss ignored the fact that the Shinichi's body wasn't found.

About Shiho changing Kudo's status as deceased. I think that in the boss' eyes, Sherry had no reason to lie abouth Shinichi's death, but like you said it could be irrelevant, because of her betrayal and his status could be changing to pending confirmation. However, if that the truth, then I think some of BO's members like Gin would know about it and I think if Gin would know that Kudo might still be alive, he would want to investigate it and kill Kudo, if he is still alive. But, on the other hand, Gin might ignore it and think that there is no way that Kudo is still alive, because he was the one who killed him and besides Gin is not good with remembering the faces of ones he killed, so Gin probably don't bother, if he cannot remember how Shinichi looked. However, there should other members, who should be interested, but if they didn't get any order from the boss about it, I guess they ignore it as well.

I know that there are low chances that the boss knows that Shinichi and Shiho shrank, but I think, it would great plot twist, if they did. About not trying hurt Ran, Agasa etc in order to obtain information. IF the boss knows and they don't want Conan and Ai to find out about it, I guess hurting anybody close to Conan would be a risking move and besides there are other methods that the boss could use to obtain information about Conan.

P.S: I'm very exciting for more Amuro's cases.
evilbit

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Re: Anokata theory: The boss may be...

Post by evilbit »

soul_dreamer wrote:
I know that there are low chances that the boss knows that Shinichi and Shiho shrank, but I think, it would great plot twist, if they did.
You may get your wish soon. Well you can probably hypothesize Vermouth is protecting that information, though time and future manga files will tell how much Bourbon has learned about Conan. We already learned in Manga files 851 pages 11-12 & file 852 page 16 Conan is about to be in deep trouble despite Vermouth’s protection thanks to Jodie.

The reason the BO hasn’t been suspicious up until this point of Conan is due to the fact of Sherry changing his status to dead in their database and every encounter with Gin, Vodka, Bourbon, and other BO members, Sherry has been full grown and Conan used a grown man’s voice when he protected her from Gin. The only three BO members who know or knew of their shrinking and their real identities are Vermouth, Irish (Dead), and Pisco (Dead).
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soul_dreamer

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Re: Anokata theory: The boss may be...

Post by soul_dreamer »

evilbit wrote:
soul_dreamer wrote:
I know that there are low chances that the boss knows that Shinichi and Shiho shrank, but I think, it would great plot twist, if they did.
You may get your wish soon. Well you can probably hypothesize Vermouth is protecting that information, though time and future manga files will tell how much Bourbon has learned about Conan. We already learned in Manga files 851 pages 11-12 & file 852 page 16 Conan is about to be in deep trouble despite Vermouth’s protection thanks to Jodie.

I think that the boss would find out about Conan's true identity in the final arc, if they didn't already

The reason the BO hasn’t been suspicious up until this point of Conan is due to the fact of Sherry changing his status to dead in their database and every encounter with Gin, Vodka, Bourbon, and other BO members, Sherry has been full grown and Conan used a grown man’s voice when he protected her from Gin. The only three BO members who know or knew of their shrinking and their real identities are Vermouth, Irish (Dead), and Pisco (Dead).
My main point was not about BO's members being suspicious of Conan but they along with their boss being suspicious that Kudo Shinichi's body wasn't found and you right they couldn't be suspicious of Conan or Ai, because they saw or heard them as adults everytime.
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