Okiya Subaru's True Identity

[sstimson]

We need to be careful or this will become an episode of Loony Tunes.

Fund is out hunting.

Daffy enters wearing a Conan Costume holds a sign saying:

"It is Sherry Hunting season"

Enter Bugs wearing an very pretty Sherry outfit and his sign:

"It is Conan hunting season"

I feel sorry for poor Elmer

Spoiler:

After all it is really Gin hunting season

[flaye]

Miyano Akemi is not an important member of the organization. Akai got through because of Akemi then James/Jodie said to Conan. That Akai then eventually got close to Akemi's siter who is fairly important to the Organization then eventually earned his name Rye and even the right to work with the higher member of the organization such as Gin.

of course Haibara would recognize Shuuichi-minus the long hair... Moboroshi Dai is the name Haibara knows, so basically he doesn't know who Shuuichi is.
I'm actually hoping that Subaru is Akai...i really want Akai to be alive even if he is not Subaru

[Miccc]

Spoiler:

Well, with the spoilers of 703 we do at least know, that Okiya knows the people of the BO. And with this sentence in the café "I wouldn’t mind sharing some hot, bitter coffee with a certain
group of people who are sweating it out in this heat, silently waiting for their prey to make a move." it seems obvious that Okiya has some kind of anger against the BO. But this doesnt mean that he is not a member, as I watch Vermouth who is waiting for the Silver Bullet....  

[AICHAN]

i have re-read  files about okiya,and there's something that bothered me(i don't know if people has already mentionned these points):
in file 640,when okiya figured out where Daita was,he asked for sonoko to tell everything to the police,and he said next "it's better that you call them,since you have police acquaintances"
http://www.dctp.ws/V61-Reader/V61-10English/V61-10/File640_007.png 
but how did he know that she had police acquaintances,since it's the "first time "he met Sonoko and Ran...

same thing in file 665(ikkaku rock)he said that the DB has already helped the police to solve a lot of cases,or something like that....(even conan was a bit surprised)
http://www.dctp.ws/V64-Reader/V64-2Read/V64-2/File665_013.png
here again,how did he know that,cause the only time he saw the DB helping for a case was during his first appearance(white,red,yellow case)...
so if it's really akai in deguise ,it means that he saw the police reports concerning all the cases where sonoko,or the DB were present,but i don't think that fbi are allowed to see the police reports,they have no relation with the japanese police,cause the presence of FBI have to be confidential,no?
but if okiya is Bourbon,then it means that he stole these police files (like Vermouth did in the past)...
or maybe okiya is someone close to the police officers,or is in contact with the police,that's why he has many informations about cases...
really,if someone could clarify these points,i would be happy...

[Eve]

i have re-read  files about okiya,and there's something that bothered me(i don't know if people has already mentionned these points):
in file 640,when okiya figured out where Daita was,he asked for sonoko to tell everything to the police,and he said next "it's better that you call them,since you have police acquaintances"
http://www.dctp.ws/V61-Reader/V61-10English/V61-10/File640_007.png 
but how did he know that she had police acquaintances,since it's the "first time "he met Sonoko and Ran...

same thing in file 665(ikkaku rock)he said that the DB has already helped the police to solve a lot of cases,or something like that....(even conan was a bit surprised)
http://www.dctp.ws/V64-Reader/V64-2Read/V64-2/File665_013.png
here again,how did he know that,cause the only time he saw the DB helping for a case was during his first appearance(white,red,yellow case)...
so if it's really akai in deguise ,it means that he saw the police reports concerning all the cases where sonoko,or the DB were present,but i don't think that fbi are allowed to see the police reports,they have no relation with the japanese police,cause the presence of FBI have to be confidential,no?
but if okiya is Bourbon,then it means that he stole these police files (like Vermouth did in the past)...
or maybe okiya is someone close to the police officers,or is in contact with the police,that's why he has many informations about cases...
really,if someone could clarify these points,i would be happy...

which is why he can possibly be Bourbon I mean the big hints like him being left handed, and squinting, etc. are pointing to him being Akai, but the more subtle hints, like this reference, or the occasional surprise face of Conan is pointing at the possibly of him being Bourbon.

But it could be arguable that Akai can get information about the DB kids from Jodie sensei, and James Black, or even the time he spend following them...

*now if only Gosho'd quit with all these fillers and get on with the BO, then we don't have to speculate so much, enough to publish a book

[Chekhov MacGuffin]

i have re-read files about Okiya, and there's something that bothered me. (I don't know if people has already mentioned these points)
In file 640, when Okiya figured out where Daita was, he asked Sonoko to tell everything to the police, and then he said, "It's better that you call them, since you have police acquaintances"
http://www.dctp.ws/V61-Reader/V61-10English/V61-10/File640_007.png  
But how did he know that she had police acquaintances, since it's the "first time" he met Sonoko and Ran?

I have noticed this too. An explanation for why hasn't been given. The girls never introduced themselves, so Okiya only heard their given names. It is possible that Okiya somehow recognized Ran Mouri as the daughter of Kogoro from the news or something. However, I think that it is more likely that Okiya has done some background research on the Mouri family or Conan's acquaintances. That is how he knows who Ran is. (Note that if Okiya is Akai, he had already met Ran, but wouldn't have necessarily known that she is connected with the police.) Also, Ran and Sonoko were hanging out with Araide whom Akai was spying on during the "Sato's engagement bet" case. That could also explain how he knew Sonoko had police acquaintances since Sato and Shiratori were there and the girls were discussing the predicament openly.

It is the same thing in file 665 (Ikkaku Rock). He said that the DB have already helped the police solve a lot of cases, or something like that. (Even Conan was a bit surprised.)
[url=http://www.dctp.ws/V64-Reader/V64-2Read/V64-2/File665_013.png]http://www.dctp.ws/V64-Reader/V64-2Read/V64-2/File665_013.png [/url]
Here again, how did he know that, because the only time he saw the DB helping out in a case was during his first appearance (white,red,yellow case)?

Officer Yuminaga has only met Conan once before and is in an entirely different division than the officers Conan and the kids most often work with, so he doesn't act like Conan is a regular. Also, Yuminaga has never met the other kids before. What this boils down to is that is it strange Okiya sounds like he knows about the kids' past cases. Again, this means Okiya had to know something about the kids beforehand. It's possible Okiya could have heard about them from the professor, but I have a feeling that Ai would be keeping a lid on Agasa since she does not trust Okiya. Akai might know a little about the detective boys since they were players in several cases related to the FBI and their intelligence missions. I will explain this in detail below. Regardless of who Okiya is, I think that he has also looked into the detective boys as well.
I mentioned above that Okiya could be looking into the Mouri family or Conan's acquaintances. The fact that he has included the detective boys in the scope of his intelligence gathering indicates to me the "person of interest" is not Mouri Kogoro, but Conan. If Okiya is Akai, that makes sense given Conan's actions so far. If Okiya is Bourbon, that likely means trouble.

So if it's really Akai in disguise, it means that he saw the police reports concerning all the cases where Sonoko or the DB were present, but I don't think that the FBI are allowed to see the police reports. They have no relation with the Japanese police, because the presence of FBI has to be confidential, no?
However, if Okiya is Bourbon, then it means that he stole those police files (like Vermouth did in the past)...
Or maybe Okiya is someone close to the police officers or is in contact with the police; that's why he has a lot of information about the cases...
Really, if someone could clarify these points, I would be happy...

Okiya could have easily picked up this information from news or by asking around. Police reports are not necessary for this. As an example, a reporter knew about the detective boy's past successes without having to see any police reports. (The detective boy's interview in volume 50)
As Akai, it is trivial to figure out Ran is connected with the police once Akai knows Ran is the daughter of detective Kogoro. Akai has dealt with the Shonen tantei indirectly several times. Cases that Akai was in or probably paid attention to which include the detective boys are: the bus hijacking case (vol 29), the panda case (vol 32), maybe the Numabuchi case (It depends on if Akai knew the guy. vol 35), definitely in the black light case (He even has a picture of them and may have asked some colleagues to tail them, vol 41), he recognizes Conan from the black light picture right away in the four porsche case (vol 41), and the Shiranpuri case (vol 57).
If Okiya is Bourbon, he would have a little more legwork to do than Akai would have, but one of Bourbon's specialties is intelligence gathering. He is also detective-like so he probably pays attention to the news and various cases since most of the other detectives in the series have rather excellent memories for cases. The only problem is why Bourbon would find Conan's acquaintances interesting enough to research in the first place. If he was investigating Conan from the start, it seems like Conan and Ai would be dead already. If Bourbon had no ideas about Conan when he moved into Shinichi's house, it would initially be hard for him to connect the dots between the owner of the house and Ran because Conan cleared out all his personal mementos. Also, if Bourbon didn't care about Conan going in, why would he bother looking up information on Conan/Shinichi's friends? I don't think Okiya is Bourbon anyway...

[AICHAN]

i have re-read files about Okiya, and there's something that bothered me. (I don't know if people has already mentioned these points)
In file 640, when Okiya figured out where Daita was, he asked Sonoko to tell everything to the police, and then he said, "It's better that you call them, since you have police acquaintances"
http://www.dctp.ws/V61-Reader/V61-10English/V61-10/File640_007.png 
But how did he know that she had police acquaintances, since it's the "first time" he met Sonoko and Ran?

I have noticed this too. An explanation for why hasn't been given. The girls never introduced themselves, so Okiya only heard their given names. It is possible that Okiya somehow recognized Ran Mouri as the daughter of Kogoro from the news or something. However, I think that it is more likely that Okiya has done some background research on the Mouri family or Conan's acquaintances. That is how he knows who Ran is. (Note that if Okiya is Akai, he had already met Ran, but wouldn't have necessarily known that she is connected with the police.)

It is the same thing in file 665 (Ikkaku Rock). He said that the DB have already helped the police solve a lot of cases, or something like that. (Even Conan was a bit surprised.)
http://www.dctp.ws/V64-Reader/V64-2Read/V64-2/File665_013.png
Here again, how did he know that, because the only time he saw the DB helping out in a case was during his first appearance (white,red,yellow case)?

Officer Yuminaga has only met Conan once before and is in an entirely different division than the officers Conan and the kids most often work with, so he doesn't act like Conan is a regular. Also, Yuminaga has never met the others kids before. What this boils down to is that is it strange Okiya sounds like he knows about the kids' past cases. Again, this means Okiya had to know something about the kids beforehand. It's possible Okiya could have heard about them from the professor, but I have a feeling that Ai would be keeping a lid on Agasa since she does not trust Okiya. Akai might know a little about the detective boys since they were players in several cases related to the FBI and their intelligence missions. I will explain this in detail below. Regardless of who Okiya is, I think that he has also looked into the detective boys as well.
I mentioned above that Okiya could be looking into the Mouri family or Conan's acquaintances. The fact that he has included the detective boys in the scope of his intelligence gathering indicates to me the "person of interest" is not Mouri Kogoro, but Conan. If Okiya is Akai, that makes sense given Conan's actions so far. If Okiya is Bourbon, that likely means trouble.

So if it's really Akai in disguise, it means that he saw the police reports concerning all the cases where Sonoko or the DB were present, but I don't think that the FBI are allowed to see the police reports. They have no relation with the Japanese police, because the presence of FBI has to be confidential, no?
However, if Okiya is Bourbon, then it means that he stole those police files (like Vermouth did in the past)...
Or maybe Okiya is someone close to the police officers or is in contact with the police; that's why he has a lot of information about the cases...
Really, if someone could clarify these points, I would be happy...

Okiya could have easily picked up this information from news or by asking around. Police reports are not necessary for this. As an example, a reporter knew about the detective boy's past successes without having to see any police reports. (The detective boy's interview in volume 50)
As Akai, it is trivial to figure out Ran is connected with the police once Akai knows Ran is the daughter of detective Kogoro. Akai has dealt with the Shonen tantei indirectly several times. Cases that Akai was in or probably paid attention to which include the detective boys are: the bus hijacking case (vol 29), the panda case (vol 32), maybe the Numabuchi case (It depends on if Akai knew the guy. vol 35), definitely in the black light case (He even has a picture of them and may have asked some colleagues to tail them, vol 41), he recognizes Conan from the black light picture right away in the four porsche case (vol 41), and the Shiranpuri case (vol 57).
If Okiya is Bourbon, he would have a little more legwork to do than Akai would have, but one of Bourbon's specialties is intelligence gathering. He is also detective-like so he probably pays attention to the news and various cases since most of the other detectives in the series have rather excellent memories for cases. The only problem is why Bourbon would find Conan's acquaintances interesting enough to research in the first place. If he was investigating Conan from the start, it seems like Conan and Ai would be dead already. If Bourbon had no ideas about Conan when he moved into Shinichi's house, it would initially be hard for him to connect the dots between the owner of the house and Ran because Conan cleared out all his personal mementos. Also, if Bourbon didn't care about Conan going in, why would he bother looking up information on Conan/Shinichi's friends? I don't think Okiya is Bourbon anyway...

ok,now it's a little clearer for me,even if gosho didn't explain  this point for now...anyway,i hope we will know more of okiya later (the recent BO arc was confusing for me,not many new infos... )

[Kor]

New theorie: Subaru Okiya is a low-rank member of the BO. Kudo treban to his house, where the FBI waits. He is be arrestet and Akai takes his place, as Okiya, in order to infriltrate the BO again. Bourbon is Scar-Akai who wants to find the real one.

It has too many flaws and holes to begin with. How did Conan know that Okiya is a B.O. member? (Haibara's feeling is not a real reason because she had the same feeling about Akai which means that Okiya could have been Akai from the start) Why would the FBI wait in Shinichi's house? How could they know that some random guy's house is gonna burn and then he will need a place to live in and then Conan will hand him the keys to his house.
The FBI thinks that Akai was killed, how can he take his place if the plan was of the FBI?

[Kor]

Still, there is no solid proof for this kind of theory that there is a "third man" in the Okiya/Akai/Bourbon arc. If there is a third man, then Gosho is being unfair to us.
Gosho hinted that Okiya is either Bourbon or Akai. If there was a third man somewhere, then we should have seen some proof to that.

[AICHAN]

maybe okiya is someone close to akai(hidden brother? ) who knows the BO...
Akai asked him and to keep an eye on the BO and also on Jodie,so that akai could have news of BO/and FBi while he's is hidding in security,waiting  for the right moment to appear and fight the BO...
of course he explained that plan to Conan and that's why he trust okiya...
sorry it's the only new idea that came to my mind

[FanOfShinichi]

OK for now, what do we know about Okiya ?

1: He seems like a skilled detective (So does Scar Akai and Bourbon, don't know anything about Real Akai being a good detective).

2: He definitely knows how to fight and not afraid of weapons (So does Bourbon - a BO mem, and Real Akai)

3: He definitely knows Jodie, though he has never met her before (So does Real Akai, but we don't know if Bourbon knows Jodie)

4: He definitely knows the BO (So does Real Akai, and of course Bourbon)

5: He might know Haibara is Sherry (So does Real Akai, but Bourbon may not think she's a kid)

6: He is trusted by Conan (So is Real Akai; and Bourbon: NEVER)

7: He drinks Bourbon (We only knows that Akai loves Bourbon, not anything about Bourbon)

8: He acts mysteriously (So does Real Akai, and Bourbon is secretive)

That's all I can think of, still have no conclusion... 

[Qmoko]

And heres my theory

Okiya is practically no doubt akai. heres what i think his trick in surviving is

Although I cant be exactly sure how akai faked the fist part, getting fake-shot in font of Gin, but since Kir said that she was glad it worked out so well, its likely they had planned for the possibility that she would have to 'kill' him

As for the body - his remains were identified by using 2 different things - gunshot to the head, and fingerprints on the phone. but if you thing 10 or so episodes back, there is someone else who fits that descrption perfectly - the BO member who infiltrated the hospital, and commited suicide while escaping. He shot himself in the head, and conans test of him required that he pick u his phone to test to see if is neck was actually hurt. Akai likely used the fact that the fFBI would not be able to do a autopsy on him themselves to fool both sides.

as to why i think hes okiya, the guy above me describes it pretty well for me

[caribou]

If Okiya is Bourbon, he would have a little more legwork to do than Akai would have, but one of Bourbon's specialties is intelligence gathering. He is also detective-like so he probably pays attention to the news and various cases since most of the other detectives in the series have rather excellent memories for cases. The only problem is why Bourbon would find Conan's acquaintances interesting enough to research in the first place. If he was investigating Conan from the start, it seems like Conan and Ai would be dead already. If Bourbon had no ideas about Conan when he moved into Shinichi's house, it would initially be hard for him to connect the dots between the owner of the house and Ran because Conan cleared out all his personal mementos. Also, if Bourbon didn't care about Conan going in, why would he bother looking up information on Conan/Shinichi's friends? I don't think Okiya is Bourbon anyway...

Not that I'm entirely sure that Okiya is Bourbon, but I think this point is possible. I think all he needs to do, is pay attention to recently solved cases and realise that a great bulk of them are solved because the police have been getting a lot of help from: 1) Kogoro, 2) Sonoko, 3) the Detective Boys. If he is indeed as good as deduction skills as we've heard, surely it is not difficult to deduct that the ONE person who is connected to ALL three, is Conan. But well anyway, he didn't have to be researching on Conan to find out such info about his acquaintances. I'm thinking the reverse, that he simply looked into the outstanding trends in solved cases in the news and finds these people that suddenly popped into the limelight. and he may eventually zoom in on Conan.

I still say it is not totally clear if Okiya is Akai, and if he is, then I find myself questioning his true motives (whether he's really 'good' or not).

[Chekhov MacGuffin]

I still say it is not totally clear if Okiya is Akai, and if he is, then I find myself questioning his true motives (whether he's really 'good' or not).

Okiya hasn't shown any motives which are definitely harmful to the protagonists. (I'm excluding scar Akai and the B.O. of course.) In the clearcut examples he protects Ai and Ayumi and he helps Ran and Conan solve some cases. An example which is debatable includes delaying Jodie to keep her from going into the sight of the snipers which could also be interpreted as trying to keep her from reaching scar Akai and warning him. I prefer the former explanation. Also, Okiya definitely seems to harbor ill will towards the B.O.; the lines about hot coffee and waiting wolves are almost surely directed towards the syndicate members given the context, although it technically is possible he was referring to someone else.

As for Okiya following Jodie, remember Okiya saw the tape with scar Akai at the bank heist. If Okiya is Akai, the presence of a lookalike at a bank where Jodie was screams someone suspicious is following her around. Since Okiya is trying to be undercover, he must avoid raising Jodie's suspicions. Asking her what is going on directly is impossible, so the next best thing is to spy on her and rest of the FBI and try to get a grasp on the Akai lookalike situation that way.

If Okiya is Akai, it's not surprising that he would have done some background investigation on Conan. Conan never told any of the FBI why he is opposing the B.O. or how he got involved with them in the first place. On top of that, Conan is insanely smart for a 7 to 8 year old. Who wouldn't be curious?

maybe okiya is not akai nor bourbon, but another BO member...engineer perhaps? 

This runs into the same problem as all the other Okiya-is-evil theories; how do you explain why Conan seems to trust him and knew about him in advance? If Okiya is not Akai then at the very least Okiya is a protagonist of some sort.

[Mizzicco]

Although its not very likely, thers another possibility

Bourbon could be Hakuba Saguru, the guy who showed up in the fake detective koushien special.