Iron Tanuki: 674

[baka1412]

2. Why is Lupin in the safe in the first place? I mean, assuming that Jirokichi couldn't even open the safe, how the hell did Lupin get in?

Answer : cats and dogs tend to get trapped on strange place... I knew, because i have one

3. If Jirokichi could use his cane to create an opening to smuggle two plates of food to Lupin everyday, why couldn't he just use his cane to break open the safe and rescue Lupin?

Answer : i dunno about he smuggling the food.. But i dont think a wooden cane could easily break a reinforced steel safe

4. Why does Jirokichi believe that Kaitou Kid will agree to help him? And why IS Kaitou Kid helping him? They are enemies, so it doesn't really make much sense. It's like Conan calling up Gin, asking him to help him fix his showers because it's broken.

Answer : It is just my opinion.. But i think he made a temporary pact with KID, with some kind of reward of anything that inside the safe.. Or he taunted KID to break into safe saying it is a challenge for a thief

Gramps : "hey, you would never be able to break into my safe, i challenge you !"
KID : " oh yeah ?! (angry), watch me break this safe !"

5. Kid's flashy appearance. Why didn't Kid just contact Jirokichi in private, rather than sending a public note, confirming his presence? This would make things much easier for both of them, as then the police, Conan, and Kogoro would leave.

Answer : as far as i remember, KID is a Flashy thief... he like doing his act on public eyes, yes he might be able to just open it in secret.. but i guess that just againt's his way of doing things..

[Nyarl]

Those are some pretty good and I'm guessing fairly accurate deductions. But there are still some questions about that theory that still need to be answered, assuming it is correct.

1. Why can't Jirokichi open the safe himself? It'll be pretty stupid if he just "forgot" how to open it, considering it's a family heirloom containing his childhood stuff and memories.
2. Why is Lupin in the safe in the first place? I mean, assuming that Jirokichi couldn't even open the safe, how the hell did Lupin get in?
3. If Jirokichi could use his cane to create an opening to smuggle two plates of food to Lupin everyday, why couldn't he just use his cane to break open the safe and rescue Lupin?
4. Why does Jirokichi believe that Kaitou Kid will agree to help him? And why IS Kaitou Kid helping him? They are enemies, so it doesn't really make much sense. It's like Conan calling up Gin, asking him to help him fix his showers because it's broken.
5. Kid's flashy appearance. Why didn't Kid just contact Jirokichi in private, rather than sending a public note, confirming his presence? This would make things much easier for both of them, as then the police, Conan, and Kogoro would leave.

One thing that is interesting, but likely coincidental, is that the safe is built by Samizu Kichiemon, the same guy who built the mansion in 394-396 that Kid was interested in. Probably a coincidence, but still interesting to note.

I think Lupin was wearing something necessary to open the safe from the outside.

The food was probably slid under the 3 cm gap at the bottom of the vault door. I suppose the door is very thick, so the cane was used to push the food all the way through.

Jirokichi wouldn't need to know Kid would help to be desperate enough to at least try to get his help. I doubt Kid considers Jirokichi a hated enemy. Jirokichi has merely given him some fun challenges. Conan is the real enemy...

I think the note was left in a place it would most likely be found by Jirokichi first. The room was so secure checking it visually would be superfluous unless the guards had been distracted, Of course, it probably would have been better and quicker for Kid to just approach Jirokichi like he did in the second chapter... Maybe he needed time to talk with the staff and figure out if it wasn't really a trap, and gauging the reaction to his reply note was part of that.

[Stepx]

Good one, Thrice! Some questions bother me too:


1. Why can't Jirokichi open the safe himself? It'll be pretty stupid if he just "forgot" how to open it, considering it's a family heirloom containing his childhood stuff and memories.

That's the question bothering me the most... Or is Jirokichi maybe trying to fool KID? But would KID be so dumb to believe that Jirokichi forgot about the safe?

2. Why is Lupin in the safe in the first place? I mean, assuming that Jirokichi couldn't even open the safe, how the hell did Lupin get in?

Related to question 1... But the same guess: Maybe Jirokichi wants to fool KID... But shouldn't he be intelligent enough to notice that Lupin wasn't able to get in as long as Jirokichi knew about the safe...?

3. If Jirokichi could use his cane to create an opening to smuggle two plates of food to Lupin everyday, why couldn't he just use his cane to break open the safe and rescue Lupin?

He shouldn't create an opening! There is a gap about 3 cm! Be he need something long to place the plates in the safe through that gap

4. Why does Jirokichi believe that Kaitou Kid will agree to help him? And why IS Kaitou Kid helping him? They are enemies, so it doesn't really make much sense. It's like Conan calling up Gin, asking him to help him fix his showers because it's broken.

It's because of KID's attitude to risk something... I think he isn't really Jirokichi's enemy, just his opponent lots of times... Uncompareable to Conan X Gin !

5. Kid's flashy appearance. Why didn't Kid just contact Jirokichi in private, rather than sending a public note, confirming his presence? This would make things much easier for both of them, as then the police, Conan, and Kogoro would leave.

Again KID's attitude... He needs some public and flashy presence!

[baka1412]

Just wondering why everyone discuss this on 674... Someone should have started discussion about file675 

[Kristantei]

Just wondering why everyone discuss this on 674... Someone should have started discussion about file675 

What's the point of starting another thread when it all just expands on the same case? I could of added there additional numbers, but you are never quite sure how large each case will turn out to be.

As to this case.
Looks like I was too late to start posting my theories. Sadly, I'm still studying Japanese. I wasn't able to read that secret note from the letter. I need to increase my studies and learn. I should of tossed my pride out after I first read that and asked someone who knew. That is the key that puts it all together.

Kid cases are normally hard. It's far easier for me to solve crimes that already happened. I can analyze the evidence and tell you what happened. With Kid cases it's hard to tell what's going to happen. You can't solve a magic trick until it's completed, and you can see the end result.
Once I know that key everything falls into place. The only things that I noticed for sure that I found odd involved the food cart, the plates that were going missing, the change that Kogoro dropped, and the fact that Jirokichi was always talking with someone while he was alone.
What I found odd about the food carts. When the cart bumped into Kogoro, with enough force to cause him to drop the change purse (point aside about a man carrying a change purse), nothing fell over. Not even the empty glass.
The servant talked about how Jirokichi has been using a cane every night, but when all the change fell down, he was able to bend to pick up the fallen change with relative ease. That proves that it isn't used for medical needs. I think the cane is being used in an attempt to possibly reclaim what he left behind in the vault to open it. Once his attempts have failed he resorted to the only one he can think of to best the Iron Tanuki.
The fact he's talking to someone shows that he's talking to poor Lupin who's been locked inside. He's lied to everyone out of embarrassment. I think the two plates are going missing is, because one of for food and the other is for water. Though I don't see why he doesn't just reuse the same plates. Use the cane to retrieve them and push them back in.
I knew Kid would never cause Lupin any harm.

The maid is the obvious choice since she seemed to know the phrase from the note. That was the purpose of Jirokichi to willingly surround himself with new people. He was trying to encourage Kid to show up.
I guess is the fact that the Kid sketch at the bottom of the note was the key. I noticed how this sketch showed him with a downward angle, you can see the top of the hat. That was probably the key. Telling him to look down, or at the bottom.
This finally answers why Jirokichi would make such an obvious fake. That was what he needed to try and get the police away. I seriously doubt he would want Kid to get arrested after he did him such a great favor. This also might work out in some way in Jirokichi's favor if 'KID' never gets to steal whatever is inside the safe.

This was fun, but I prefer the crime cases.

[sstimson]

It is time for once and for all to kill the idea that either something or  someone is locked up in the safe, or Sonoko's Uncle can not open the safe. Check this page

Spoiler:

the panel says he is checking the condition of the Vault. How do you do that with out entering the vault? That should show he can open the safe, and this being so means the vault can be opened so nothing would be locked up inside. I mean why would the uncle want the dog locked up inside? That just does not make any sense.

Also a new idea on who put the second note in the room. See this picture

Spoiler:

The chief inspector of KID was the first one to note the something was drop in that room. How did he know? Normally you can not hear a paper drop. That gets me think that he might have planted it.

Later

[Kristantei]

Jirokichi didn't WANT Lupin in there. Lupin is stuck. Either Jirokichi forgot how to open the safe, or what he needs got accidentally locked inside with Lupin.
The bodyguard, who has only worked for Jirokichi for a few days, says when he's in there 'alone' talks with someone. He's talking to Lupin.
Jirokichi knew he needed help. Someone who could conquer this famous safe. Kaitou Kid is the only choice. The safe maker is long since dead. It's not like he could ask for help. Only option would be to blow the safe. That would destroy a famous safe that he has long memories of, and put Lupin in danger.

Jirokichi made the first note and did it in such a way so that people, mainly the police, would know it was a fake. He needed that leverage to get the police to leave.

Also, look in panel 3 of Ch674, page 15. Nakamori opens the door to show the officer. You can already see the card on the floor. Absentmindedly, he closes the door, then only to realize he saw something. There was no sound of the card falling. That sound effect was the door closing.

I would of been far more suspicious of that maid at first if I had know there was another set of doors to the room. Notice that in chapter 675 the maid makes reference to the secret message in the first, fake Kid notice. I think Kid was originally looking around for Lupin to put him to sleep. I don't think Kid knew what was going on when he showed up.
I'm betting that while this safe looks intimidating. There is a rather simple way to open it. Notice it's called the "Iron Tanuki". Tanuki's were famous in Japanese mythology for changing shapes and being misleading. It's an Iron Taunki so I'm betting it's a really strong safe, but opening it from the outside is most likely a lot easier then it appears.

[baka1412]

...........I'm betting that while this safe looks intimidating. There is a rather simple way to open it. Notice it's called the "Iron Tanuki". Tanuki's were famous in Japanese mythology for changing shapes and being misleading. It's an Iron Tanuki so I'm betting it's a really strong safe, but opening it from the outside is most likely a lot easier then it appears.

Something crossed out my mind after you said that.. I hope there will be more than just a chapter name for "Iron Tanuki", not just simply strong safe, i bet that safe hold some kind of mysterious contraption  . . . Hence the name "Tanuki" came from...

Changing shapes and misleading, maybe that safe isn't actully the REAL safe. . . 

[Chekhov MacGuffin]

I thought about it some more and puzzled over the three inch opening which would be too small except for a chihuahua or so and then a new theory hit me: Puppies. Lupin's gender has never been mentioned, and although Lupin is a male name, the dog could very well be female. The puppies are in the safe and perhaps they are afraid to come out. Maybe Jirokichi hasn't tried to open the safe because he doesn't remember how to open it perfectly and he is worried those security measures and the safe "clockwork" he mentioned the Iron Tanuki having might hurt him or the puppies in the safe if he fouled up. I have no proof to back this up in the slightest, but I'm going to fiddle with that code and puppy and see if anything coherent falls out. Cheers!

In the spoiler box to save room is the japanese from the highlighted line at the bottom of the letter with English definitions, hiragana, and romanizations, if anyone wants to take a crack at it. I noticed "tewo" brought up lots of hits about working together or helping, but I haven't found anything particularly screaming. One simple Japanese code is the "Tanuki code" where extraneous 'ta's are added to writing. "Tanuki" can mean "take out the 'ta'". (see chap 36) It came to mind when I saw the the name iron tanuki but I'm not sure if it's relevant...

て te
を wo
中 – inside, [なか] (naka) or [うち] (tsuu chi)
し shi
て te
役 - duty; war; campaign; drafted labor; office; service; role, [えき] (eki) or [やく] (yaku)
れ re

[Stepx]

Something new is puzzleing me...

I've skimmed the last Kaito Kid Chapters (Volume 44, 46, 53 and 61) to check whether Kaito is left- or right-handed, and when you have a look at him pointing with his card-gun on someone, you cann see that he is right-handed. Jirokichi seems to be left-handed (I'm not sure about that, there is only one scene in Volume 44 where he holds the telephone with his left hand, I guess he is left-handed)! But why the hell is Jirokichi first right-, and later left-handed! That doesn't work to our theories! And I don't think Gosho made a mistake, and because we can be sure that Kaito was right-handed, why should he now suddenly be left-handed (in his disguise as Jirokichi)?

And by the way: The maid is right-handed (as she picks up the coins with her right hand)!

And something else I forgot: It's said that Jirokichi is in the safe room every single evening for about 2-3 minutes! I guess that is not enough time to open the safe (as there are a lot of traps to handle as Jirokichi himself said), look for something inside and then close the safe... That would take him more then just 2-3 minutes!

[GinRei]

I thought about it some more and puzzled over the three inch opening which would be too small except

Stop.  3cm, not 3 inches.  3cm is about 1.18 inches.  I'm not even sure most plates with food would be able to fit through there, though I suppose it's possible as long as it isn't large bits of food.

[Chekhov MacGuffin]

Something new is puzzleing me...
I've skimmed the last Kaito Kid Chapters (Volume 44, 46, 53 and 61) to check whether Kaito is left- or right-handed, and when you have a look at him pointing with his card-gun on someone, you cann see that he is right-handed. Jirokichi seems to be left-handed (I'm not sure about that, there is only one scene in Volume 44 where he holds the telephone with his left hand, I guess he is left-handed)! But why the hell is Jirokichi first right-, and later left-handed! That doesn't work to our theories! And I don't think Gosho made a mistake, and because we can be sure that Kaito was right-handed, why should he now suddenly be left-handed (in his disguise as Jirokichi)?

One way to resolve that contradiction is if first Jirokichi we see, the right handed one, is Kaito kid. The real Jirokichi comes out later when he yells about when the food is ready. That's why he seems to forget about what he said before.

And Ginrei you are right about 3 cm instead of 3 inches. My mistake. Cheers!

[Stepx]

No, later! When Jirokichi comes out to ask for the dinner, he throws the coin with his right hand! And that's when he "forgot" about what he said! Later, in the last scene (when he comes out of the safe room), he throws the keys with the left hand! That's why the change can only happen during that talk between the maid and Jirokichi within the dining room! Look at the scene when he is in front of the safe room, he uses the cane with his right hand, so he might be already left-handed at that time!

The problem is that it doesn't make any sense when the first Jirokichi is Kaito, while the Jirokichi in the last scene is Jirokichi himself...

[Chekhov MacGuffin]

The problem is that it doesn't make any sense when the first Jirokichi is Kaito, while the Jirokichi in the last scene is Jirokichi himself...

That's right! I must be having an off day today making such stupid mistakes... and now I'm all bungled up. Please disregard my last post. thanks Stepx

[Kristantei]

Stop.  3cm, not 3 inches.  3cm is about 1.18 inches.  I'm not even sure most plates with food would be able to fit through there, though I suppose it's possible as long as it isn't large bits of food.

I think you underestimate how tall 3cm can be. I measured the plates in my home, and the tallest, deepest plate I had maxed out at 2cm tall.

...........I'm betting that while this safe looks intimidating. There is a rather simple way to open it. Notice it's called the "Iron Tanuki". Tanuki's were famous in Japanese mythology for changing shapes and being misleading. It's an Iron Tanuki so I'm betting it's a really strong safe, but opening it from the outside is most likely a lot easier then it appears.

Something crossed out my mind after you said that.. I hope there will be more than just a chapter name for "Iron Tanuki", not just simply strong safe, i bet that safe hold some kind of mysterious contraption  . . . Hence the name "Tanuki" came from...

Changing shapes and misleading, maybe that safe isn't actully the REAL safe. . . 

It's already been determined the safe has another function. It's actually a small room. Jirokichi's family used it during the war as a safe shelter. Remember that during WWII Japan was bombed pretty badly (i.e. Hiroshimi and Nagasaki). The people of Japan had no idea if there would be more or where they would drop.
I'm guessing there is probably a lever on the inside to allow someone to open it from the inside. If Lupin is stuck inside I bet he's somewhere he can't reach the lever.