Bourbon / Amuro Tohru's personality, history, and true allegiance

[ALAKTORN]

Maybe Akai is the reason why Amuro’s skin is dark. lol

[Kor]

Vermouth: Bourbon, why do you hate Akai so much?
Amuro: After he betrayed the organization... he never called me back.

Spoiler:

Reworded from a post I made years ago.

It does make me wonder. Maybe there's some more to Amuro dressing up as Akai

[Chekhov MacGuffin]

Vermouth: Bourbon, why do you hate Akai so much?
Amuro: After he betrayed the organization... he never called me back.

Spoiler:

Reworded from a post I made years ago.

It does make me wonder. Maybe there's some more to Amuro dressing up as Akai

Well Kogoro did say Amuro was effeminate.

Spoiler: Adorkable reminder

[PhantomWriter]

Vermouth: Bourbon, why do you hate Akai so much?
Amuro: After he betrayed the organization... he never called me back.

Spoiler:

Reworded from a post I made years ago.

It does make me wonder. Maybe there's some more to Amuro dressing up as Akai

Well Kogoro did say Amuro was effeminate.

Spoiler: Adorkable reminder

Hell hath no fury like a lover scorned. And it would honestly be refreshing to have people who aren't straight in the series.

[asanez2008]

Their rivalry is much more serious than that love triangle thing because even Akai have shown hatred towards Bourbon.
http://www.dctp.ws/V67-Reader/V67-8Read ... 04_016.png

[AICHAN]

Vermouth: Bourbon, why do you hate Akai so much?
Amuro: After he betrayed the organization... he never called me back.

Spoiler:

Reworded from a post I made years ago.

It does make me wonder. Maybe there's some more to Amuro dressing up as Akai

best theory ever...I would love to see that XDXD

no seriously it's hard for me to believe that Akemi has nothing to do with their rivalry,especially after the flashback with Elena.One would think he would care about Akemi...
Or maybe her death added more strength to that rivalry.
but I'm glad it's not a love triangle,that would be kind of a copycat of Gundam...there are already too many similarities.

Maybe Akai's father killed Amuro's parents...I've always wondered if Akai's dad was FBI too and was fighting the BO as Akai is doing now.

[Paix672]

I find the Amuro and Akai character juxtaposition to be very interesting - mainly because of how Shinichi and other characters in the series seem to operate under an absolute moral framework (despite his hypocrisy at times - domestic violence case comes to mind). But I think what it really boils down to is the underlying motive. This is not to justify or downplay the questionable acts that Akai has done, but he's ultimately doing it for a good cause. Amuro, on the other hand, is just doing it to settle down whatever personal business he has with Akai. This doesn't really align with how other protagonists in the series are portrayed.

I'm also not sure how I feel about the theory that Amuro has been mislead/misguided. Even if it seems as the most reasonable theory now that Akemi's involvement in their rivalry has been invalidated by Gosho, Amuro doesn't come across as a character who can be easily manipulated. He has both the intellect and the means to find out for himself. With all of that being taken into account, though, I still think that Amuro will not turn out to be completely antagonistic. Mostly because I don't see Gosho going that route.

[Jd-]

Their rivalry is much more serious than that love triangle thing because even Akai have shown hatred towards Bourbon.
http://www.dctp.ws/V67-Reader/V67-8Read ... 04_016.png

Wow, re-reading that now, it's really crazy how many red herrings are on just that one page. Especially the sidebar comment!

As this winds down, we should totally gather up all of the misdirects since the start of this arc. The ones below are really brazen to say the least.

[KingCzar]

What could be the hints showing how Bourbon is not interested in BO or how he is just infiltrating the organization (if possible)?

[The_evilbit]

Currently no hints have been given. There have been some subjective scenes which show he is not as ruthless as the other BO members and humanize him, but for the most part he has shown himself currently to be a rank and file BO member.

[Jd-]

Currently no hints have been given. There have been some subjective scenes which show he is not as ruthless as the other BO members and humanize him, but for the most part he has shown himself currently to be a rank and file BO member.

This is the only thing I take exception with, as I posted in another topic. So far, we've seen Bourbon act quite wayward with regard to the Black Organization's interests on at least two separate but very major occasions. First there was the Red Shirts case, where he appeared as Scar Akai and didn't inform anyone in the Black Organization that he was doing so; as we saw, this caused a lot of strife within the Organization during that event, and at the end, he essentially taunted Chianti as she was sniping the front entrance. Secondly, during the train case, Bourbon came up with a plan with Vermouth that was entirely different than what the Black Organization (including Gin) had decided on. Their goal was to blow up a train station with hundreds of casualties including Sherry, whereas Bourbon--with Vermouth's knowledge, though we don't know the instigator of the plan--decided to take her alive in a helicopter that Gin and the others had no idea about (Vermouth deviated from their plan and intended to blow Sherry up before she got on the helicopter, as far as we know). Whether his reasoning was to save innocents or something else we do not currently know, but clearly he didn't like their plan for whatever reason.

So, while he is acting within the Black Organization, I wouldn't consider him an especially rank-and-file sort of member. In fact, almost everything he's done outside of the Akai investigation suggest he doesn't really have any respect for their authority.

[Korvo]

Currently no hints have been given. There have been some subjective scenes which show he is not as ruthless as the other BO members and humanize him, but for the most part he has shown himself currently to be a rank and file BO member.

This is the only thing I take exception with, as I posted in another topic. So far, we've seen Bourbon act quite wayward with regard to the Black Organization's interests on at least two separate but very major occasions... Secondly, during the train case, Bourbon came up with a plan with Vermouth that was entirely different than what the Black Organization (including Gin) had decided on. Their goal was to blow up a train station with hundreds of casualties including Sherry, whereas Bourbon--with Vermouth's knowledge, though we don't know the instigator of the plan--decided to take her alive in a helicopter that Gin and the others had no idea about (Vermouth deviated from their plan and intended to blow Sherry up before she got on the helicopter, as far as we know). Whether his reasoning was to save innocents or something else we do not currently know, but clearly he didn't like their plan for whatever reason.

On the contrary, since Vermouth speaks of having "leaked" the information about Shiho travelling on the train to Gin, he (and the BO at large) wasn't supposed to know about that. The converse seem more probable: Bourbon and Vermouth had a plan, Vermouth leaked the info to Gin behind Bourbon's back to get the C4 from Vodka behind Gin's back for her own plan while anticipating Gin's plan - remember, Gin didn't care if Vermouth or Bourbon got killed in the explosion and is implied not to have told them about his plans.

If to come up with different plans is to "act quite wayward with regard to the Black Organization's interests", then Gin also stands condemned here, since he is okay with the possible sacrifice of Vermouth and Bourbon just to get rid of Shiho. (Vermouth would stand condemned here, which would leave Bourbon not an exception, but part of the norm).

[Jd-]

Currently no hints have been given. There have been some subjective scenes which show he is not as ruthless as the other BO members and humanize him, but for the most part he has shown himself currently to be a rank and file BO member.

This is the only thing I take exception with, as I posted in another topic. So far, we've seen Bourbon act quite wayward with regard to the Black Organization's interests on at least two separate but very major occasions... Secondly, during the train case, Bourbon came up with a plan with Vermouth that was entirely different than what the Black Organization (including Gin) had decided on. Their goal was to blow up a train station with hundreds of casualties including Sherry, whereas Bourbon--with Vermouth's knowledge, though we don't know the instigator of the plan--decided to take her alive in a helicopter that Gin and the others had no idea about (Vermouth deviated from their plan and intended to blow Sherry up before she got on the helicopter, as far as we know). Whether his reasoning was to save innocents or something else we do not currently know, but clearly he didn't like their plan for whatever reason.

On the contrary, since Vermouth speaks of having "leaked" the information about Shiho travelling on the train to Gin, he (and the BO at large) wasn't supposed to know about that. The converse seem more probable: Bourbon and Vermouth had a plan, Vermouth leaked the info to Gin behind Bourbon's back to get the C4 for her own plan while anticipating Gin's plan - remember, Gin didn't care if Vermouth or Bourbon got killed in the explosion and is implied not to have told them about his plans.

If to come up with different plans is to "act quite wayward with regard to the Black Organization's interests", then Gin also stands condemned here, since he is okay with the possible sacrifice of Vermouth and Bourbon just to get rid of Shiho. (Vermouth would stand condemned here, which would leave Bourbon not an exception, but part of the norm).

You're probably completely right about that (the Mystery Train shenanigans). I, admittedly, haven't read the case in full since its original release. If things turn out especially ambiguous during the upcoming case, I'll definitely go back and give it a re-read. I also haven't seen the anime version in full yet, unfortunately. What I would say instead to support my point that Bourbon is far from a "rank and file" member is that, to date, he has not yet reported any of the information he has gathered to date to the Organization--even quite vital intel that he knows is valuable. He hasn't told them any of his findings regarding Akai (which one could argue he's not doing to give himself the edge on exacting revenge), but he also didn't tell them about Shiho, about his plans as Scar Akai (even though it exposed the Organization and could have led to much trouble for them showing themselves in such a public fashion), etc. Apart from cooperating with Vermouth, we've not really seen him do anything especially Black Organization-related so far. That may change soon, but I've yet to see a moment where I thought, "Oh! This guy is so Black Organization, to the core!"

On the second point, though: Gin doesn't warrant any condemnation on this matter because he is, without any doubt, an authoritative member of the Organization. Him destroying the train and everyone on it, including Sherry, clearly has obvious benefits to the Organization--the goal of his plan was not in any way ambiguous and his loyalty is not really questionable. Vermouth already operates in a very gray area (and before Bourbon was the "most good" of the Black Organization members, even though she is still "mostly bad"), and suspicions are abound about her true goals (which we already know are not explicitly aligned with that of the Organization given how much she works outside of it). While we've seen Vermouth do things for the Organization and be willing to kill those that get in her way, we have not yet seen Amuro approach that level. If anything, his approach (including on the Mystery Train) is much more pacifist and non-violent than the other members'--with his plan there, specifically, no one would have gotten hurt during the entire incident (with no guarantees Shiho would have actually made it back to the Organization in the helicopter either).

There are still a lot of ways this could go, but I have not yet seen anything to indicate that Amuro is interested in serving out the Organization's interests or would kill innocent people indiscriminately a la Gin, Vodka, Chianti, Korn, etc.

[Akechi 5563]

Their rivalry is much more serious than that love triangle thing because even Akai have shown hatred towards Bourbon.
http://www.dctp.ws/V67-Reader/V67-8Read ... 04_016.png

Wow, re-reading that now, it's really crazy how many red herrings are on just that one page. Especially the sidebar comment!

As this winds down, we should totally gather up all of the misdirects since the start of this arc. The ones below are really brazen to say the least.

Hi new here

After the current chapters, file 704 does seem really odd.

The part where Okiya=Akai says "Unfortunately he wasn't who i thought he was so i didn't talk with him" is kinda confusing. My only speculation with this line is that Okiya also came up with the same conclusion as Conan in file 893, that Amuro was a PSIA agent but as somehow same as Conan, he also got the wrong idea justifying the reason he says "Unfortunately he wasn't who i thought he was".

The fact that Okiya=Akai says "I've known his face for a long time, there's no way i could be mistaken" would clearly imply Bourbon frequently disguises himself as others when investigating. Okiya directs this comment at Scar Akai=Bourbon suggesting that he has at least seen Bourbon at work whilst in the Organisation and knows how he operates.

[User 4869]

This explanation made sense
http://www.detectiveconanworld.com/wiki ... _for_Conan