Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Forum reserved for discussing specific points of the story—mostly from the manga. Be warned, these discussions will be current with the manga and will spoil many plot lines for anime-centric fans.
Post Reply
User avatar
jimmy_kud0_tv2

Posts:
712

Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Post by jimmy_kud0_tv2 »

Absenta wrote: - Shukichi Haneda is the same age that Chris Vineyard is supposed to be (physically) 27-28.
Her box listed her as 29 and he is 28

even if they are currently similar in age, we still don't know for sure what happened to Vermouth

and what would be the point of a Tsutomu disusing as his own son, playing Shogi, and dating Yumi ?
Tantei San wrote:
Absenta wrote: - Shukichi Haneda resembles a lot to his father.
It wasn't Shukichi, according to Manga Chapter 972-974 When Mary described the resemblance, It was more for Shuichi and not for Shukichi. You took it wrong.
Its from this translation

Image
Last edited by jimmy_kud0_tv2 on February 21st, 2017, 12:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
I hope that I can find someway to contribute to the community even if it's just random crack theories and looking things up for people who can't find the information they need.
ImageImage
User avatar
Tantei San
It's Complicated... It was...It is..And Will remain that way....!!

Posts:
331

Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Post by Tantei San »

jimmy_kud0_tv2 wrote:
Absenta wrote: - Shukichi Haneda is the same age that Chris Vineyard is supposed to be (physically) 27-28.
Her box listed her as 29 and he is 28

even if they are currently similar in age, we still don't know for sure what happened to Vermouth

and what would be the point of a Tsutomu disusing as his own son, playing Shogi, and dating Yumi ?
What kind of a father will he be to disguise as his son, besides had the shrinking effect been known for practially all these times had Tsutomu used APTX, Shinichi and Haibara would have been killed by now.
User avatar
jimmy_kud0_tv2

Posts:
712

Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Post by jimmy_kud0_tv2 »

Tantei San wrote:
jimmy_kud0_tv2 wrote:
Absenta wrote: - Shukichi Haneda is the same age that Chris Vineyard is supposed to be (physically) 27-28.
Her box listed her as 29 and he is 28

even if they are currently similar in age, we still don't know for sure what happened to Vermouth

and what would be the point of a Tsutomu disusing as his own son, playing Shogi, and dating Yumi ?
What kind of a father will he be to disguise as his son, besides had the shrinking effect been known for practially all these times had Tsutomu used APTX, Shinichi and Haibara would have been killed by now.
I can't tell whether you are replying to me or to the other person. You seem to be disagreeing with them, but quoted me?
I hope that I can find someway to contribute to the community even if it's just random crack theories and looking things up for people who can't find the information they need.
ImageImage
User avatar
Tantei San
It's Complicated... It was...It is..And Will remain that way....!!

Posts:
331

Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Post by Tantei San »

jimmy_kud0_tv2 wrote:
Spoiler:
Tantei San wrote:
jimmy_kud0_tv2 wrote:
Absenta wrote: - Shukichi Haneda is the same age that Chris Vineyard is supposed to be (physically) 27-28.
Her box listed her as 29 and he is 28

even if they are currently similar in age, we still don't know for sure what happened to Vermouth

and what would be the point of a Tsutomu disusing as his own son, playing Shogi, and dating Yumi ?
What kind of a father will he be to disguise as his son, besides had the shrinking effect been known for practially all these times had Tsutomu used APTX, Shinichi and Haibara would have been killed by now.
I can't tell whether you are replying to me or to the other person. You seem to be disagreeing with them, but quoted me?
I agree with your say and at the same time disagree with the other.
Absenta

Posts:
69

Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Post by Absenta »

Serinox wrote:
Absenta wrote:What about the Shukichi Haneda stuff¿? Half brother with Kohji? Why??
Koji is not Shukichi's half-brother, he is his "non-blood related brother" (the term used in Japanese doesn't specify much more than that).
Absenta wrote:- Shukichi Haneda is a strong-built man
Is he? Shukichi looks more like an average-built man to me.
Absenta wrote:- Shukichi Haneda is quite confident of his memory, he proclaims to be the best memorizer in the world. Rum relys absolutely in Curacao,
who had the capacity to memorize big data.
As Gosho recently said, movies are movies, manga is manga. The whole stuff from M20 with Curacao doesn't have relevance in the manga story, unless Gosho re-introduces it seperately, which seems highly unlikely, just like M13 had no relevance.
Absenta wrote:Rumi Wakasa: She could be Asaka and at the same time, the soul detective.
Gaito Hotta was the Soul Detective, he was a TV celebrity for a while. His identity can't really be doubted.

- I´ve read someplace the half-brother stuff. I know they don´t share blood but I don´t understand why a person should take a surname like that, he could respect Kohji Haneda but why Gosho has to introduce this issue¿? Just to mantain the mistery about the middle brother? It´s a bit foolish and I can´t understand it.

- Well, Rum actually is the second in command and so a very important character. We can hear his voice through a machine and it should be taked as something important, the fact that movies have no relevance in the manga story could be for the timeline , but I don´t see why they have to put that Rum scene if everything is nonsense.

- Ok, this was my fault. Soul detective is Gaito Hotta, but someone else is uploading information about the case. That person took pics of the crime scene and is not Gaito Hotta.


Keeping my theory on:

Yes, Mary said about the resemblance because Akai said something that reminded her to Tsutomu. I suppose they share shame attitude but definetely the eyes , hair, face features and look were transfered to Shukichi.

I just want to give a bit of light to a character like Shukichi, don´t know why we were cheated so many chapters to find out if he was the middle brother, is it important¿??

I know it´s improbable the Shukichi Haneda stuff (allthough very Aoyama) but why not think as Tsutomu as Rum¿?
My mind blew up thinking about Kuroda, Wakita, Wakasa and another candidates to be Rum, now it just only makes sense Tsutomu as Rum x D
User avatar
dccd

Posts:
210

Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Post by dccd »

This whole "Conan and Haibara would´ve been killed"-assumption to me is wrong.
Why?

Lets assume Rum was shrinked by Silver Bullet - not APTX, since APTX didnt existed at that time.
Rum knows about the shrinking effect of Silver Bullet.
But Silver Bullet was already destroyed within the lab-fire.
In addition he cant be sure / now know about the shrinking effect of ATPX since he might never experienced or witnessed it.

So - from Rums point of view - there is no Silver Bullet anymore. And he dont know about the APTX-shrink.
This absolutely explains why he wouldnt tell the Boss about the APTX-shrink of Haibara - simply because he doesnt know - he only knows about SBullet-shrink.

Counter-argument: Rum probably shrunk Mary.
But: Would he tell the Boss about it? I doubt it, since he messed up once and might lose his position if he confirmes he messed up again.
At this level I think we might claim that Rum actually messed up twice - once with killing Kohji, once with killing Mary.
[ ] Yonehara = Rum
[ ] Kuroda = Amuros Boss
[x] MG = Mrs. Akai
[x] Haneda = Brother Akai
[ ] Rumi = Asaka
[ ] Wakita = Bo-Member Whiskey (aka the RAT)
[ ] Iori = just a butler
Absenta

Posts:
69

Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Post by Absenta »

dccd wrote:This whole "Conan and Haibara would´ve been killed"-assumption to me is wrong.
Why?

Lets assume Rum was shrinked by Silver Bullet - not APTX, since APTX didnt existed at that time.
Rum knows about the shrinking effect of Silver Bullet.
But Silver Bullet was already destroyed within the lab-fire.
In addition he cant be sure / now know about the shrinking effect of ATPX since he might never experienced or witnessed it.

So - from Rums point of view - there is no Silver Bullet anymore. And he dont know about the APTX-shrink.
This absolutely explains why he wouldnt tell the Boss about the APTX-shrink of Haibara - simply because he doesnt know - he only knows about SBullet-shrink.

Counter-argument: Rum probably shrunk Mary.
But: Would he tell the Boss about it? I doubt it, since he messed up once and might lose his position if he confirmes he messed up again.
At this level I think we might claim that Rum actually messed up twice - once with killing Kohji, once with killing Mary.
Exactly.... As individual beings, besides the fact that actually silver bullet was a different drug, BO members have their own reasons and circumnstances. Vermouth ones are more or less explained. It´s time to know about Rum.
User avatar
Tantei San
It's Complicated... It was...It is..And Will remain that way....!!

Posts:
331

Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Post by Tantei San »

jimmy_kud0_tv2 wrote:
Its from this translation

Image
I was referring to this
Image
dccd wrote:This whole "Conan and Haibara would´ve been killed"-assumption to me is wrong.
Why?

Lets assume Rum was shrinked by Silver Bullet - not APTX, since APTX didnt existed at that time.
Rum knows about the shrinking effect of Silver Bullet.
But Silver Bullet was already destroyed within the lab-fire.
In addition he cant be sure / now know about the shrinking effect of ATPX since he might never experienced or witnessed it.
I will take it into account that at the time i.e, 17 years ago, there was no APTX, and was a drug being developed by the name of Silver Bullet.
But,
Who said Silver Bullet shrunk people. IF you give Vermouth's example, there is no reference to anything as on now, whether she took Silver Bullet or APTX, regardless of the fact she is still younger and keeps looking like that (If she hasn't had a clone factory :P )
Besides, Silver Bullet was name given to a drug which would destroy the BO, and not for use(in that sense).

So - from Rums point of view - there is no Silver Bullet anymore. And he dont know about the APTX-shrink.
Silver Bullet was destroyed/finished when both Elena and Atsushi Miyano died.
Counter-argument: Rum probably shrunk Mary.
But: Would he tell the Boss about it? I doubt it, since he messed up once and might lose his position if he confirmes he messed up again.
At this level I think we might claim that Rum actually messed up twice - once with killing Kohji, once with killing Mary.
Your counter argument probably fits the context and even I believe Mary was shrunken by RUM, but if thats the case then, the climaxo f RUM arc will be a whole new level.
User avatar
MeiTanteixX

Posts:
1307

Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Post by MeiTanteixX »

Tantei San wrote: And Can anyone please give this information as to How would Wakita Kanenori be a BO member?
I don't find him that way because.
Wakita Kanenori (My thoughts at least)
Tantei San wrote: Actually, Its other way around, I was quoting Phantomwriter's view and kinda mixed it with yours MeiTanteixX.
I see, well in any case, Tsutomu is most likely the reason for the screw-up.
DC's Awesome Qoutes:
Spoiler:
Image
Bourbon:''A child's curiosity and a detective's spirit of inquiry do have much in common''
Image
Vermouth:''A secret makes a woman, woman''
Image Image
Mary/Gin:''It's like encountering a demon in the darkness...''
Image
Akai Shuichi:''Fear of death is worse than death itself''
Image
Shinichi Kudo:''following the smell of blood to arrive upon a crime scene, using every one of your senses to hunt the culprit, then once you've seized hold of him, sinking your sharp teeth(your evidence) until your opponent gives up the ghost, That's a detective''
DeviantArt:http://meitanteixx.deviantart.com/
Tumblr:http://masterdetectivexx.tumblr.com/
Youtube:https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCFL6Gq ... hWaNIRUu0Q
alphajjc

Posts:
94

Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Post by alphajjc »

You guys act as if the likelihood of "Sherry" being a 13 year old biochemist working on an exceedingly hard experiment is any more realistic than a 13 year old trained assassin.

For all we know Iori/Rum and his success may have been what led the boss to entrust Sherry years later with that task...Yes guys I know she didn't do it by choice and of her own accord and was forced onto it..but i'm saying his previous experience with another young prodigy may have been what had him say "lets try her"
Absenta

Posts:
69

Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Post by Absenta »

So many questions...vague answers...

¿When was Mary shrunk?

She surely took the APTX, and this was probably far way after the Miyanos died in that car accident. So Shiho actually developed the drug.
The cause they moved to Japan was probably because of this. Masumi Sera is crearly an excuse for the existence of Mary. Since the manga introducted her in the Bourbon Arc she was staying in a hotel, and had a weird behaviour , specially towards Conan.

Rum starts to be really active since the apparition of Mary, as she triggered his apparition. Maybe Rum was living in the States after all.
Actually, maybe the BO was based in the States meanwhile the development of the drug was settled in Japan.

We´ll have to wait to find out if Mary is sister of Elena Miyano, (Elena Sera would be)

Elena "died" 17 years ago. ¿Why did she record tapes for her baby, after all, she was just a baby.
It´s like the series jump in 3 clear timelines:

- Present

- Past (10 years ago):

Conan is 7.
The Akai family meets the Kudo family.
Hyoue Kuroda has a terrible accident.


- Far past (17 years ago):

ASACA case.
Miyanos accident
Shuichi Akai joins the FBI
Birth of Shinichi Kudo, Masumi Sera, one year before Haibara..


¿Why people die taking the drug and other ones survive?

That´s actually a big question. We don´t exactly how many victims the modern APTX has and why the BO clasify the victims in the same list if it´s a different drug.
Let´s say that the APTX or silver bullet drug are made to do the perfect crime, because it doesn´t leave traces in the victims. Maybe the fact that some people survive is a side effect - add on put by Shiho, something her mother told her in the tapes. As if Silver Bullet drug could turn against BO project. And this fact it´s someway related to that mysterious drug (cannabis?) that drove mad the people in Karasuma Renya mansion.

¿Does Shuichi know that his mother actually shrunk and does Mary know Shuichi is alive?

I think it´s a YES for both.
User avatar
DCUniverseAficionado
Life can be so many things... what it is for me and for you is up to us to decide.

Posts:
1792

Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Post by DCUniverseAficionado »

Kor wrote:At most, she's just a guest character that shows up every 70 chapters or so.
Perhaps, but that'd ultimately be a waste of a character—not to say that it would be such a surprise or shock if Gosho ultimately ends up wasting her character, but a waste of a character is, well, not exactly desirable—I don't think the majority preference (regardless of how much investment one puts in her character) is that she should just be some infrequently-appearing random maid who happens to be Katsunobu's and Naeko's friend. Better she have some plot impact than none.
“Life is infinitely stranger than anything which the mind of man could invent. We would not dare to conceive the things which are really mere commonplaces of existence. If we could fly out of that window hand in hand, hover over this great city, gently remove the roofs, and and peep in at the queer things which are going on, the strange coincidences, the plannings, the cross-purposes, the wonderful chains of events, working through generations, and leading to the most outre results, it would make all fiction with its conventionalities and foreseen conclusions most stale and unprofitable.”
“Education never ends... it is a series of lessons, with the greatest for the last.”
― Arthur Conan Doyle, The Complete Adventures of Sherlock Holmes and His Last Bow
"I have decided to stick to love... hate is too great a burden to bear."
— Martin Luther King Jr. (A Testament of Hope: The Essential Writings and Speeches of Martin Luther King, Jr)
User avatar
Tantei San
It's Complicated... It was...It is..And Will remain that way....!!

Posts:
331

Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Post by Tantei San »

Absenta wrote:-

- Past (10 years ago):

Conan is 7.
The Akai family meets the Kudo family.
Hyoue Kuroda has a terrible accident.


- Far past (17 years ago):

ASACA case.
Miyanos accident
Shuichi Akai joins the FBI
Birth of Shinichi Kudo, Masumi Sera, one year before Haibara..
Haibara is older than shinichi by one year.
Also Shuichi joined FBI when Conan was 7 not when he was born
¿Why people die taking the drug and other ones survive?

That´s actually a big question. We don´t exactly how many victims the modern APTX has and why the BO clasify the victims in the same list if it´s a different drug.
Let´s say that the APTX or silver bullet drug are made to do the perfect crime, because it doesn´t leave traces in the victims. Maybe the fact that some people survive is a side effect - add on put by Shiho, something her mother told her in the tapes. As if Silver Bullet drug could turn against BO project. And this fact it´s someway related to that mysterious drug (cannabis?) that drove mad the people in Karasuma Renya mansion.
How can anyone surviving is a side effect, this definitely has some back story which apparently Haibara knows and hasn't told shinichi yet.
User avatar
kkuuddoo

Posts:
199

Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Post by kkuuddoo »

¿Why people die taking the drug and other ones survive?
How can anyone surviving is a side effect, this definitely has some back story which apparently Haibara knows and hasn't told shinichi yet.
I agree with you
Haibara was thinking to her self " But what they really wanted me to make .... was another drug" File 948 page 4
She never addressed what was the different drug they wanted, neither did she tell Conan about it (Conan isn't the only secret keeper here)

We originally thought that Haibara was recreating her parents drug from the burnt data she got when she started working for them, but now haibara is claiming they didn't want her to do the same drug but another one.

Why ? was Silver Bullet not done ? not good enough ? change of purpose ? they ran out of Silver bullet ?

Who took APTX 4869 and who took Silver bullet, when were each one of them made ?

Those are all unanswered questions we have gosho has yet to answer

I dont have a theory here, but its just an idea I had for a FanFiction Story .... ( Please Don't judge me for that ) I will still write this fan fiction
Here is the idea

Elena and Atsushi worked on the drug with stages, One stage killed people with no trace and another stage reached a shrinking result, they decided to hide they shrinking drug, and hid the drug they made somewhere mysterious ( maybe with Mary or a British/Japanese friend )
The Organization used the killing drug as much as they wished

However, Someone heard the miyano's deciding to hide some new results, so they rated them out, Elena was aware there life was in danger because of her and her husbands actions, so she recorded the tapes for her girls ( assuming maybe akemi got some tapes too ) She was sure she wasn't going to risk her children life, although leaving them with the Bo is a risk it self, she still had hope that her kids wont be killed, and had thoughts that her kids will be forced to work for them, at least one of them ( assuming Shiho somehow was an abnormal smart child, maybe Talked or walked early )
Somehow Vermouth got a hold of that drug by mistake and turned younger - Or she got a previous stage that stopped aging ( Assuming Vermouth was there test subject for a while - explains why she hates them )
The Miyano Parents were indeed killed for their mysterious actions, hiding the results of the future drug Silver Bullet ( No one finds it yet )
Shiho was sent to the US to study, and came back to get the data left behind from her parents, she reached the killing stage as The BO wished

Here we go - Main Story Idea
Akemi had been with her parents and knew where the shrinking drug is, she went ahead and found it, and started sneakily slipping it into shiho's lab coat to see what will happen, as shiho seemed to have told her sister everything. Shiho discovered the mice shrinking and thought it was a just a side effect, Akemi decided to keep it that way and once again, slips another drug into shiho's coat and shiho ended up putting it with the batch Gin took and used on Shinichi, who was lucky enough to get the shrinking drug instead of the killing drug
Akemi plans the escape from the BO plan, and puts another piece in shiho coat, fearing she would get killed, shiho might decide to commit suicide, and that happens,Akemi is killed, shiho tried to kill herself with the drug she made, however she takes the shrinking drug unknowingly and turns to a child - later known as Haibara Ai.
Mary might have gotten one of those from when Akemi slipped a few of the pills in shiho's coat ( assuming shiho always kept a few in her pocket originally, which made it easy for akemi to switch them secretly.

Of corse, this does not explain everything, I am still thinking of how the story will go, and will not write it until a few things are explained and confirmed by gosho and the mange ( like Elena and Mary being sister for example )

Any thoughts ?
GIN X SHIHO <3<3<3
VERMOUTH IS SEXY AS HELL !!

Elena Miyano and Atsushi ..... APTX 4869 & Silver Bullet
Absenta

Posts:
69

Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Post by Absenta »

kkuuddoo wrote:
¿Why people die taking the drug and other ones survive?
How can anyone surviving is a side effect, this definitely has some back story which apparently Haibara knows and hasn't told shinichi yet.
I agree with you
Haibara was thinking to her self " But what they really wanted me to make .... was another drug" File 948 page 4
She never addressed what was the different drug they wanted, neither did she tell Conan about it (Conan isn't the only secret keeper here)

We originally thought that Haibara was recreating her parents drug from the burnt data she got when she started working for them, but now haibara is claiming they didn't want her to do the same drug but another one.

Why ? was Silver Bullet not done ? not good enough ? change of purpose ? they ran out of Silver bullet ?

Who took APTX 4869 and who took Silver bullet, when were each one of them made ?

Those are all unanswered questions we have gosho has yet to answer

I dont have a theory here, but its just an idea I had for a FanFiction Story .... ( Please Don't judge me for that ) I will still write this fan fiction
Here is the idea

Elena and Atsushi worked on the drug with stages, One stage killed people with no trace and another stage reached a shrinking result, they decided to hide they shrinking drug, and hid the drug they made somewhere mysterious ( maybe with Mary or a British/Japanese friend )
The Organization used the killing drug as much as they wished

However, Someone heard the miyano's deciding to hide some new results, so they rated them out, Elena was aware there life was in danger because of her and her husbands actions, so she recorded the tapes for her girls ( assuming maybe akemi got some tapes too ) She was sure she wasn't going to risk her children life, although leaving them with the Bo is a risk it self, she still had hope that her kids wont be killed, and had thoughts that her kids will be forced to work for them, at least one of them ( assuming Shiho somehow was an abnormal smart child, maybe Talked or walked early )
Somehow Vermouth got a hold of that drug by mistake and turned younger - Or she got a previous stage that stopped aging ( Assuming Vermouth was there test subject for a while - explains why she hates them )
The Miyano Parents were indeed killed for their mysterious actions, hiding the results of the future drug Silver Bullet ( No one finds it yet )
Shiho was sent to the US to study, and came back to get the data left behind from her parents, she reached the killing stage as The BO wished

Here we go - Main Story Idea
Akemi had been with her parents and knew where the shrinking drug is, she went ahead and found it, and started sneakily slipping it into shiho's lab coat to see what will happen, as shiho seemed to have told her sister everything. Shiho discovered the mice shrinking and thought it was a just a side effect, Akemi decided to keep it that way and once again, slips another drug into shiho's coat and shiho ended up putting it with the batch Gin took and used on Shinichi, who was lucky enough to get the shrinking drug instead of the killing drug
Akemi plans the escape from the BO plan, and puts another piece in shiho coat, fearing she would get killed, shiho might decide to commit suicide, and that happens,Akemi is killed, shiho tried to kill herself with the drug she made, however she takes the shrinking drug unknowingly and turns to a child - later known as Haibara Ai.
Mary might have gotten one of those from when Akemi slipped a few of the pills in shiho's coat ( assuming shiho always kept a few in her pocket originally, which made it easy for akemi to switch them secretly.

Of corse, this does not explain everything, I am still thinking of how the story will go, and will not write it until a few things are explained and confirmed by gosho and the mange ( like Elena and Mary being sister for example )

Any thoughts ?

I really like this theory , explains a lot and is really cool and how Shinichi is lucky enough to get the "magic" one. I also like that Akemi semi-planned in advance to protect Shiho. She believed that Shiho could escape and reunite with little Shinichi to take down the BO.

So maybe Mary had this pill and took it when she felt that RUM was going to catch her. We suppose then that she took and old Silver Bullet pill¿? She has a pre-puberty body, like 12 year-old girl. It´s possible that she took the APTX, but is less probable because it means that she took it later on. We don´t know how many "magic" pills are still in the BO. I believe there are a few Shiho could produce between the gap shown in EPISODE ONE and Akemi´s assasination.

About Vermouth...I think it´s more complicated that just taking a pill for her.
There are many theories about this, Even one that states that Vermouth could be Elena. It´s a complex piece, specially because she has a personal relationship with the boss. She is her favourite and it´s probably because the boss it´s more interested in other researchs aside the mortal effect that the drug has in people.

It´s possible that Vermouth is part of the early stages of the project, even before than Elena and Atsushi and she served to them as a guinea pig "the marvelous case of the woman that didn´t age". Or maybe is what you say, she took a silver bullet thinking she would die and things turned worse, bieng in a spiral of nihilistic autodestruction of herself and the BO.
Post Reply