Theory on the History of Elena Miyano/Drug research/''sister outside the domain''/Furuya Rei

Forum reserved for discussing specific points of the story—mostly from the manga. Be warned, these discussions will be current with the manga and will spoil many plot lines for anime-centric fans.
User avatar
Shiromi

Posts:
136
Contact:

Re: Theory on the History of Elena Miyano/Drug research/''sister outside the domain''/Furuya Rei

Post by Shiromi »

MeiTanteixX wrote:
Spimer wrote:I want to point out that you're making a slight mistake: Gin says in File 1 that Shinichi was the 1st test subject but on Haibara's explanation of the APTX she mentions that several people have been killed with the APTX already, way before Gin used it on Shinichi: so they knew the effectiveness of the drug.

If you look at that list you'll see that everyone else apart from Shinichi had their deaths confirmed by the BO.

http://www.detectiveconanworld.com/wiki ... 69_Victims

In short: what Gin said is File 1 has been retconned and is no longer a valid statement.

I hope this info was of help.
Yes it was, thanks for the confirmation, cause in all honesty, that's what I believed in the beginning but because it was awhile since I read that chapter, I thought maybe I misunderstood it when @shiromi said that he was the first victim. ^^
I just read over File 179 which the wiki article you linked cites, and there was nothing there that contradicted what Gin said. Sherry said that there were other victims of APTX, nothing about whether they'd been killed before or after Shinichi. Remember - by then it's been several months since Shinichi's "death", and there was plenty of time for it to be tested on other people. So, Gin's statement isn't contradicted, unless you can cite something else that the Wiki-article missed.

Before they tested it on Shinichi, they'd been testing it on animals. Therefore they would know the effectiveness of the drug, or at least have a pretty good idea of what would happen to humans taking it.
MeiTanteixX wrote:We can't really guarantee how much Akai really knew about akemi, especially from her mothers side, because if Elena was an agent, background info would be harder to get. So there's no proof Akai really knew about her being his cousin. Call it incest if u want, in some cultures it's even normal anyway(and don't assume I'm talking about Japan).
So, your reason for saying that we can't guarantee how much Akai knew about Akemi is your baseless conjecture of Elena being a secret agent. What we do know is that Akai targeted Akemi specifically because of her ties to the BO, despite the fact that she had been allowed a normal life with little supervision from the BO.
MeiTanteixX wrote:don't know why you're telling me about the information that we already know from the series. About the whole "they didn't know what they were getting into", there's no proof that Elena didn't know beforehand that they were bad. And the whole MI6 Idea was based mostly on analyzing gosho's story writing style. The fact that he mentioned the MI6 and that he also adds agency/intelligences one after another into the series was something that I just couldn't let go of my mind. there's probably a purpose to why gosho is doing that. But ur free to believe that MI6 is unrelated to this. (Btw if it wasn't obvious, I'll tell you now, the "mad scientist" part was a quote from haibara, other than what agasa said, how would I know how his real personality was like)
Sorry, should have prefaced it with "I think that..." I was making a narrative that's about as bound to the known facts as yours was. I was proving that they could be interpreted another, very different way, which means we just don't have enough information to start making useful theories about this.
MeiTanteixX wrote:The Scotch thing is another matter that I have a theory, either way, u are free to believe that he isn't related to rei.
It's not a matter of belief. It's a matter of how much you can prove. The most you can prove about the nature of the relationship between Scotch and Bourbon is that they're both in the Japanese secret police, and that Bourbon liked Scotch enough to be deeply affected by his death. Other than that, we don't know enough to start saying things like "they were family/lovers/best friends."
MeiTanteixX wrote:ONCE AGAIN, you are misunderstanding my whole theory!!!! I never said that Elena shrank!!!! Nor did I say she was the little "sister outside the domain"!!! That's why I advice u to read it again....but if u still don't get it, Sera's mom is the little "sister", Elena is sera's aunt, in other words, Sera's mom is Elena's sister!!!
Ah, sorry. Wait a sec.... according to your theory, she gave this drug that kills 99.9% of who take it to her own SISTER??? What kind of depraved monster do you want this woman to be? According to your theory, she's a MI6 agent who had kids (blackmail material) and didn't keep them secret from the BO, then abandoned them to be brainwashed into being good little murdering soldiers for the BO. Then she tests a drug that 99.9% of the time is a deadly untraceable poison to her own sister. At least she made loving tapes for her girls that she abandoned in the maw of the BO.
MeiTanteixX wrote:That last sentence doesn't even make sense. Why would u assume that there wasn't an apotoxin victim before shinichi that the BO have no info of.
Well, according to Sherry, human testing didn't begin until Gin gave it to Shinichi, and according to Pisco, Sherry's work on it was a definite step forward in the development of the drug. Silver Bullet likely didn't have the dramatic affects that APTX does. If there is someone who was affected by it, it probably was Vermouth, seeing as she hates the Miyanos so much, and she doesn't age. So, it's slightly more likely that it could only halt the aging process, not shrink people.
MeiTanteixX wrote:According to my theory, the BO shouldn't even know that the Myianos were alive!! Sera's mom didn't shrink inside the BO radar so they wouldn't know if there was a Apt4869 victim before shinichi that got a hold of the drug(according to my theory). And there's nothing proven on the effects of the apotoxin, we don't really know how much every individual would have actually shrunk. So basing ur comment on how much teenagers have shrunk is vague because there's no proof to that a person in her 40's would shrink the same way.
You're right - 40 year olds might become 13 year olds with APTX. We have no evidence that they do, and as far as we know, all other APTX victims are confirmed dead, and the ones who didn't die all ended up the same age. I reject the idea that the mystery girl is one of the Miyanos' test subjects.

The Miyanos disappeared/died when Sherry was very young. If they've been in hiding ever since, then they wouldn't have the resources or research teams needed to continue work on it, and if they're really dead, then they can't continue work on it. If it halts the aging process, if the mystery girl is Mrs. Sera, then it was given to a middle-school aged child (who's had a lot of children since then). If it shrinks people, then the resulting child should be an adult by now. If it shrinks and stops the aging process, we have no evidence of that. In fact, we don't know what Silver Bullet was made to do or what affects it had, other than there being a lot of excitement about it amongst the Miyanos' research partners. Heck, we don't even know what APTX was made to do.

If the Miyanos are still alive and working on the drug and apparently testing it on human subjects, say with the British government (because in your theory Elena is an MI6 agent), then why aren't Akemi and Shiho safe with them? Akemi wasn't important to the BO; she'd have been easy to get out of their clutches. She, at the very least, wouldn't be in the BO and wouldn't have killed people and died trying to get her sister out, because she'd have the resources of MI6 at her disposal.

When coming up with a theory, it's important to think, "If this is true, what else would it mean?"

"If Elena is an MI6 agent, then she gave the organization she's fighting against weapons against her, gave the organization future members, then abandoned them to that fate, even though she easily could have used her MI6 resources to rescue at the very least Akemi."

"If Mrs. Sera is the mystery child and Elena's sister and given APTX by Elena without the knowledge of the BO, then Elena tried to murder her own sister."

If the above are true, then Elena is a crazy, evil failure of a human being. I don't think Goushou was aiming for that in her characterization.
My DC Fanfic: Awaking and Arising - Shiromi writes her version of the end of the series. With 100% more lesbians and immortal zombie boys. And existential crises. Lots of them.
Kogorou - A character study that seeks to answer the question: Why is Kogorou the way he is?
A Kindred Spirit - Sonoko and Makoto realize that they have more in common than previously realized.
DC Fanfic Rants

Betareading this fanfic: Deception
Kor
Administrator

Posts:
3051

Re: Theory on the History of Elena Miyano/Drug research/''sister outside the domain''/Furuya Rei

Post by Kor »

Shiromi wrote: Ah, sorry. Wait a sec.... according to your theory, she gave this drug that kills 99.9% of who take it to her own SISTER??? What kind of depraved monster do you want this woman to be? According to your theory, she's a MI6 agent who had kids (blackmail material) and didn't keep them secret from the BO, then abandoned them to be brainwashed into being good little murdering soldiers for the BO. Then she tests a drug that 99.9% of the time is a deadly untraceable poison to her own sister. At least she made loving tapes for her girls that she abandoned in the maw of the BO.
Before MeitanteixX comes to tell you you misunderstood his theory again, I'll point this out! (Though I can't really blame you for misunderstanding, since as I pointed out, that last paragraph is problematic). He proposes the possibility that Masumi's mother took the pill by accident, which is probably just as ridiculous as Elena actually testing it on her sister purposefully, I'd say.
Elena's sister, however, was given the apotoxin 4869 prototype, that elena had kept in her lab, as a last wish for her sister to protect it and take it with her to the US, But it lead to the misfortune of her digesting it by accident. Since she was sickly from the beginning, she took pills daily, and as she asked her daughter to bring them for her, masumi gave her the wrong one by accident. So,..she witnessed her mother shrink into a kid(funny story). Since the only scientist who has knowledge about the apotoxin is her own niece, who lives in japan, she asked masumi, who already planned to go there, to take her with her.
MeiTanteixX wrote: I purposely added "probably" and "funny story" on that part so that u guys could take that story lightly. When I add "probably", please don't assume that it's the highlight of my whole theory that I fully believe happened. Im just stating possibilities that I came up with on the spot(based on no evidence) to fill up gaps that I just don't have enough hints or signs to fully explain those part, rather then leaving them empty(without suggesting anything).
You are doing to your theory (and your rhetoric) a huge disservice by pointing such things out so blatantly (unless you aren't trying to convince us). Why should we take this theory seriously if you came up with some of its ideas on the spot without evidence?
Anyway, if you need to fill the gaps with ideas you came up with on the spot, which are based on zero evidence, then that's probably because your theory isn't complete or not well thought out. It's a sign that either we don't have enough hints yet to solve the overall mystery, or that your theory is wrong because you constructed a scenario that isn't supported by evidence from the manga.
While filling gaps isn't a sin, how you fill the gaps (and how much of the scenario you constructed relies on the filled gaps and points based on zero evidence) is what makes makes it hard to take your theory seriously.
Image
User avatar
MeiTanteixX

Posts:
1307

Re: Theory on the History of Elena Miyano/Drug research/''sister outside the domain''/Furuya Rei

Post by MeiTanteixX »

Shiromi wrote:
MeiTanteixX wrote:
Spimer wrote:I want to point out that you're making a slight mistake: Gin says in File 1 that Shinichi was the 1st test subject but on Haibara's explanation of the APTX she mentions that several people have been killed with the APTX already, way before Gin used it on Shinichi: so they knew the effectiveness of the drug.

If you look at that list you'll see that everyone else apart from Shinichi had their deaths confirmed by the BO.

http://www.detectiveconanworld.com/wiki ... 69_Victims

In short: what Gin said is File 1 has been retconned and is no longer a valid statement.

I hope this info was of help.
Yes it was, thanks for the confirmation, cause in all honesty, that's what I believed in the beginning but because it was awhile since I read that chapter, I thought maybe I misunderstood it when @shiromi said that he was the first victim. ^^
I just read over File 179 which the wiki article you linked cites, and there was nothing there that contradicted what Gin said. Sherry said that there were other victims of APTX, nothing about whether they'd been killed before or after Shinichi. Remember - by then it's been several months since Shinichi's "death", and there was plenty of time for it to be tested on other people. So, Gin's statement isn't contradicted, unless you can cite something else that the Wiki-article missed.

Before they tested it on Shinichi, they'd been testing it on animals. Therefore they would know the effectiveness of the drug, or at least have a pretty good idea of what would happen to humans taking it.
MeiTanteixX wrote:We can't really guarantee how much Akai really knew about akemi, especially from her mothers side, because if Elena was an agent, background info would be harder to get. So there's no proof Akai really knew about her being his cousin. Call it incest if u want, in some cultures it's even normal anyway(and don't assume I'm talking about Japan).
So, your reason for saying that we can't guarantee how much Akai knew about Akemi is your baseless conjecture of Elena being a secret agent. What we do know is that Akai targeted Akemi specifically because of her ties to the BO, despite the fact that she had been allowed a normal life with little supervision from the BO.
MeiTanteixX wrote:don't know why you're telling me about the information that we already know from the series. About the whole "they didn't know what they were getting into", there's no proof that Elena didn't know beforehand that they were bad. And the whole MI6 Idea was based mostly on analyzing gosho's story writing style. The fact that he mentioned the MI6 and that he also adds agency/intelligences one after another into the series was something that I just couldn't let go of my mind. there's probably a purpose to why gosho is doing that. But ur free to believe that MI6 is unrelated to this. (Btw if it wasn't obvious, I'll tell you now, the "mad scientist" part was a quote from haibara, other than what agasa said, how would I know how his real personality was like)
Sorry, should have prefaced it with "I think that..." I was making a narrative that's about as bound to the known facts as yours was. I was proving that they could be interpreted another, very different way, which means we just don't have enough information to start making useful theories about this.
MeiTanteixX wrote:The Scotch thing is another matter that I have a theory, either way, u are free to believe that he isn't related to rei.
It's not a matter of belief. It's a matter of how much you can prove. The most you can prove about the nature of the relationship between Scotch and Bourbon is that they're both in the Japanese secret police, and that Bourbon liked Scotch enough to be deeply affected by his death. Other than that, we don't know enough to start saying things like "they were family/lovers/best friends."
MeiTanteixX wrote:ONCE AGAIN, you are misunderstanding my whole theory!!!! I never said that Elena shrank!!!! Nor did I say she was the little "sister outside the domain"!!! That's why I advice u to read it again....but if u still don't get it, Sera's mom is the little "sister", Elena is sera's aunt, in other words, Sera's mom is Elena's sister!!!
Ah, sorry. Wait a sec.... according to your theory, she gave this drug that kills 99.9% of who take it to her own SISTER??? What kind of depraved monster do you want this woman to be? According to your theory, she's a MI6 agent who had kids (blackmail material) and didn't keep them secret from the BO, then abandoned them to be brainwashed into being good little murdering soldiers for the BO. Then she tests a drug that 99.9% of the time is a deadly untraceable poison to her own sister. At least she made loving tapes for her girls that she abandoned in the maw of the BO.
MeiTanteixX wrote:That last sentence doesn't even make sense. Why would u assume that there wasn't an apotoxin victim before shinichi that the BO have no info of.
Well, according to Sherry, human testing didn't begin until Gin gave it to Shinichi, and according to Pisco, Sherry's work on it was a definite step forward in the development of the drug. Silver Bullet likely didn't have the dramatic affects that APTX does. If there is someone who was affected by it, it probably was Vermouth, seeing as she hates the Miyanos so much, and she doesn't age. So, it's slightly more likely that it could only halt the aging process, not shrink people.
MeiTanteixX wrote:According to my theory, the BO shouldn't even know that the Myianos were alive!! Sera's mom didn't shrink inside the BO radar so they wouldn't know if there was a Apt4869 victim before shinichi that got a hold of the drug(according to my theory). And there's nothing proven on the effects of the apotoxin, we don't really know how much every individual would have actually shrunk. So basing ur comment on how much teenagers have shrunk is vague because there's no proof to that a person in her 40's would shrink the same way.
You're right - 40 year olds might become 13 year olds with APTX. We have no evidence that they do, and as far as we know, all other APTX victims are confirmed dead, and the ones who didn't die all ended up the same age. I reject the idea that the mystery girl is one of the Miyanos' test subjects.

The Miyanos disappeared/died when Sherry was very young. If they've been in hiding ever since, then they wouldn't have the resources or research teams needed to continue work on it, and if they're really dead, then they can't continue work on it. If it halts the aging process, if the mystery girl is Mrs. Sera, then it was given to a middle-school aged child (who's had a lot of children since then). If it shrinks people, then the resulting child should be an adult by now. If it shrinks and stops the aging process, we have no evidence of that. In fact, we don't know what Silver Bullet was made to do or what affects it had, other than there being a lot of excitement about it amongst the Miyanos' research partners. Heck, we don't even know what APTX was made to do.

If the Miyanos are still alive and working on the drug and apparently testing it on human subjects, say with the British government (because in your theory Elena is an MI6 agent), then why aren't Akemi and Shiho safe with them? Akemi wasn't important to the BO; she'd have been easy to get out of their clutches. She, at the very least, wouldn't be in the BO and wouldn't have killed people and died trying to get her sister out, because she'd have the resources of MI6 at her disposal.

When coming up with a theory, it's important to think, "If this is true, what else would it mean?"

"If Elena is an MI6 agent, then she gave the organization she's fighting against weapons against her, gave the organization future members, then abandoned them to that fate, even though she easily could have used her MI6 resources to rescue at the very least Akemi."

"If Mrs. Sera is the mystery child and Elena's sister and given APTX by Elena without the knowledge of the BO, then Elena tried to murder her own sister."

If the above are true, then Elena is a crazy, evil failure of a human being. I don't think Goushou was aiming for that in her characterization.
I still can't believe that you misunderstood my theory once again:

To explain my theory more simpler sentences:

Let's start with Elena.
Elena and atsushi did Not experiment on humans. The little sister was never a subject.

Elena is "Mrs. Sera's" sister. Elena gave the apotoxin prototype to her sister before her death(If she really died), hoping she can keep it safe with her until it will prove useful in the future, For example, if sera's mom finds the opportunity to give it shiho. This leads to where she is now, shrunken and starting "operations" with sera. To shrink, she has to get a hold of, or be connected to, the apotoxin. my theory explains a possibility to that. When she shrank, how much she shrank and why she shrank cannot be proven or disproven just yet because of lack of info so no one can call anyone's ideas unreasonable.

Elena leaving akemi was for shiho's and the future BO-victim's sake. If there's at least one family figure, who's had a mother's good influence in a young age, it could save shiho from walking a path of suffering(for both shiho, and future victims of the drug that she might develop).

Akai targeted akemi because of her ties with the BO. How much Akai know about these ties, not even u can prove that he knew about Elena, about atsushi, and about how they got involved. The tie could simply be, she is connected to a higher member of the BO(Sherry).

I have my theory on the matter with Scotch, and little that we know, there's no reason for anyone to believe that logical conclusions cannot be made. If u want the details on my analyzes, fine.....I find it wierd for example that little rei would meet elena of all people. We know he works for the police, but we know very little of elena. A door of possibilities is opened to scenarios that they could meet. One of them is that rei was a BO child, trained to become a detective for the BO, but met elena while he was there in the BO. ANOTHER of these possibilities are that they met at the secret police, where rei's future work lies. the reason I went with this is because, compared to the first possibility, it explained couple important stuff that was left to question. Going with the second possibility lead to the fact that if she met him there, it means the secret police must have had a connection to her, could ultimately explain why she knew she had to leave,..to possibly get protection. but Gosho's unnecessary mentioning of MI6 didn't feel that unnecessary in the case that elena met rei in the secret police. So I came to the conclusion that secret police might have clashed paths with MI6 in the past and that the elena might be the bridge to that. But it didn't explain what rei would be doing in the secret police at such a young age. My thought was that his foreshadowed special connection with scotch had the answer to that. Basically, there's a lot of possibilities when there's insufficient facts......so I'd advice to not jump on conclusions about "this" and "that" being unreasonable or impossible when one lacks concrete facts to support that accusation.

Hopefully I didn't seem harsh. ..just got really tired about getting extreme replies to stuff u mostly misunderstood what I meant... sorry in advance if i sounded harsh! ^.^
Last edited by MeiTanteixX on November 20th, 2014, 6:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
DC's Awesome Qoutes:
Spoiler:
Image
Bourbon:''A child's curiosity and a detective's spirit of inquiry do have much in common''
Image
Vermouth:''A secret makes a woman, woman''
Image Image
Mary/Gin:''It's like encountering a demon in the darkness...''
Image
Akai Shuichi:''Fear of death is worse than death itself''
Image
Shinichi Kudo:''following the smell of blood to arrive upon a crime scene, using every one of your senses to hunt the culprit, then once you've seized hold of him, sinking your sharp teeth(your evidence) until your opponent gives up the ghost, That's a detective''
DeviantArt:http://meitanteixx.deviantart.com/
Tumblr:http://masterdetectivexx.tumblr.com/
Youtube:https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCFL6Gq ... hWaNIRUu0Q
User avatar
MeiTanteixX

Posts:
1307

Re: Theory on the History of Elena Miyano/Drug research/''sister outside the domain''/Furuya Rei

Post by MeiTanteixX »

Kor wrote:
Shiromi wrote: Ah, sorry. Wait a sec.... according to your theory, she gave this drug that kills 99.9% of who take it to her own SISTER??? What kind of depraved monster do you want this woman to be? According to your theory, she's a MI6 agent who had kids (blackmail material) and didn't keep them secret from the BO, then abandoned them to be brainwashed into being good little murdering soldiers for the BO. Then she tests a drug that 99.9% of the time is a deadly untraceable poison to her own sister. At least she made loving tapes for her girls that she abandoned in the maw of the BO.
Before MeitanteixX comes to tell you you misunderstood his theory again, I'll point this out! (Though I can't really blame you for misunderstanding, since as I pointed out, that last paragraph is problematic). He proposes the possibility that Masumi's mother took the pill by accident, which is probably just as ridiculous as Elena actually testing it on her sister purposefully, I'd say.
Elena's sister, however, was given the apotoxin 4869 prototype, that elena had kept in her lab, as a last wish for her sister to protect it and take it with her to the US, But it lead to the misfortune of her digesting it by accident. Since she was sickly from the beginning, she took pills daily, and as she asked her daughter to bring them for her, masumi gave her the wrong one by accident. So,..she witnessed her mother shrink into a kid(funny story). Since the only scientist who has knowledge about the apotoxin is her own niece, who lives in japan, she asked masumi, who already planned to go there, to take her with her.
MeiTanteixX wrote: I purposely added "probably" and "funny story" on that part so that u guys could take that story lightly. When I add "probably", please don't assume that it's the highlight of my whole theory that I fully believe happened. Im just stating possibilities that I came up with on the spot(based on no evidence) to fill up gaps that I just don't have enough hints or signs to fully explain those part, rather then leaving them empty(without suggesting anything).
You are doing to your theory (and your rhetoric) a huge disservice by pointing such things out so blatantly (unless you aren't trying to convince us). Why should we take this theory seriously if you came up with some of its ideas on the spot without evidence?
Anyway, if you need to fill the gaps with ideas you came up with on the spot, which are based on zero evidence, then that's probably because your theory isn't complete or not well thought out. It's a sign that either we don't have enough hints yet to solve the overall mystery, or that your theory is wrong because you constructed a scenario that isn't supported by evidence from the manga.
While filling gaps isn't a sin, how you fill the gaps (and how much of the scenario you constructed relies on the filled gaps and points based on zero evidence) is what makes makes it hard to take your theory seriously.
third possibility @kor, I was to Lazy to fill in the details on the analysis I made, stuff that pointed out what was based on serious investigation and what was a little spin off could've been made,..structure sucked, missing informations that actually would explain why or what an idea was based on, relied to much on memory when it came to quoting or referencing, leading to confusions such as "was shinichi the first victim or not?", and that "little sister knowing fake death" was unnecessary and was a unrelated to the context it was with, and then lastly....that I was writing this very late at night, no coffee.

Edit: the sister taking pills was based on the fact that she was introduced to be sickly. other than that, I should've been more clear that the whole accident comedy wasn't really serious on my part. Maybe someday I'll retell this theory with more details on my investigations and theories, if it still stays in tact later.
DC's Awesome Qoutes:
Spoiler:
Image
Bourbon:''A child's curiosity and a detective's spirit of inquiry do have much in common''
Image
Vermouth:''A secret makes a woman, woman''
Image Image
Mary/Gin:''It's like encountering a demon in the darkness...''
Image
Akai Shuichi:''Fear of death is worse than death itself''
Image
Shinichi Kudo:''following the smell of blood to arrive upon a crime scene, using every one of your senses to hunt the culprit, then once you've seized hold of him, sinking your sharp teeth(your evidence) until your opponent gives up the ghost, That's a detective''
DeviantArt:http://meitanteixx.deviantart.com/
Tumblr:http://masterdetectivexx.tumblr.com/
Youtube:https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCFL6Gq ... hWaNIRUu0Q
ThatLee4

Posts:
44

Re: Theory on the History of Elena Miyano/Drug research/''sister outside the domain''/Furuya Rei

Post by ThatLee4 »

I like this topic. Tho many ideas are off or rushed and just filler jokes. It makes good reading to consider the better story lines Gosho is yet to answer.

One topic which you wrote on was the APTX4869 vs the Silver Bullet pill.

I have questioned if they are considered the same thing or one to counter. Or as you said an antidote?

I think it is a counter to the BO's plan and was created instead of the proposed aptx4869 the BO want for their plan. But a couple things to consider:

One or both pills are called the incomplete detective.

Did Shinich and Shilo shrink for some special reason to them? (i also dont believe he was the first person to be used on (unless the rats are the only evidence they count). To know it is untrace able death pill. Which i also believe is a bi product of the research producing that instead of the BO's desired effect.)

Do you think the antidote which changes Conan back to Shinich, which uses the liqor Heiji used has any connection to the BO having Alchol names?

Do you think Rei may be one person able to believe the unrealness of the drug and shrinking becausebof his connection witj Elena and he may know the BO's true plan. While also appering to know Vermont's secret which would be unbelievable to many. Hope he is a character used to mive the main story along deeper
User avatar
MeiTanteixX

Posts:
1307

Re: Theory on the History of Elena Miyano/Drug research/''sister outside the domain''/Furuya Rei

Post by MeiTanteixX »

ThatLee4 wrote:I like this topic. Tho many ideas are off or rushed and just filler jokes. It makes good reading to consider the better story lines Gosho is yet to answer.

One topic which you wrote on was the APTX4869 vs the Silver Bullet pill.

I have questioned if they are considered the same thing or one to counter. Or as you said an antidote?

I think it is a counter to the BO's plan and was created instead of the proposed aptx4869 the BO want for their plan. But a couple things to consider:

One or both pills are called the incomplete detective.

Did Shinich and Shilo shrink for some special reason to them? (i also dont believe he was the first person to be used on (unless the rats are the only evidence they count). To know it is untrace able death pill. Which i also believe is a bi product of the research producing that instead of the BO's desired effect.)

Do you think the antidote which changes Conan back to Shinich, which uses the liqor Heiji used has any connection to the BO having Alchol names?

Do you think Rei may be one person able to believe the unrealness of the drug and shrinking becausebof his connection witj Elena and he may know the BO's true plan. While also appering to know Vermont's secret which would be unbelievable to many. Hope he is a character used to mive the main story along deeper
I do believe the silver bullet project was a counter to the black organizations plans for the apotoxin, currently a prototype(incomplete Tantei). If the Myianos, especially Elena, was nice enough to warn and help shiho through a secret tape, it wouldn't make sense that the research crew and the parents would put their hopes on this "terrifying drug"(mentioned in mystery train case). And what interesting to notice is that the research crew described it as a "Dream drug", while Elena said "terrifying drug". That doesn't necessarily mean a contradiction, but could rather be a description on how terrifying even the Counter-drug could become, if it's not used properly. But what this would mean is that if what I just deduced is true, it would mean that the research crew has always detested the BO and have been dreaming on taking the BO out.

The thing about Rei knowing vermouth secret(that is big enough to be kept away from the BO members) is a big gamble that gosho has taken. It means that he has planned something huge from Rei's, or secret police's, part OR, if he's planning on keeping the story going for another three-two years, that he might kill Rei off in the future, unless he might be planning on taking vermouth out of the BO frame, which would lead to many revelations that about her secrets(too early) as she dies. Reason I'm saying this is that this whole secret leverage isn't something that will keep vermouth on put. she is someone that would do anything to keep her secrets away from the light of the day(note: killing Jodie's father, attempt/threat on killing Jodie/yukiko, eradicting what's left of the Miyanos). If Gosho would drag out this whole Bourbon-vermouth team up, that's based on a blackmail, then he wouldn't be keeping vermouth character real. At this moment, vermouth should be already investigating Bourbon on how he found out, and how the secret would reveal itself if he died.

As for the paikaru(heiji's liquor), It wouldn't be impossible if the ingrediens of the drink, which the BO's codenames is based on, is somehow related to an ingredient in the Apotoxin, but I believe that the reason gosho brought the Paikaru antidote idea up was so that shinichi, as well as Shiho, could find a way to temporary return to their own bodies FOR THE SAKE OF THE STORY(note: shinichi solving case infront of heiji, leading to heiji evetually realizing the truth about conan, and shiho hiding the shrinking secret from Gin, as well as being able to escape from the liquor storage) and for haibara to be able to use it for an antidote,Which also turned out to be temporary(note: Desperately Revival).
DC's Awesome Qoutes:
Spoiler:
Image
Bourbon:''A child's curiosity and a detective's spirit of inquiry do have much in common''
Image
Vermouth:''A secret makes a woman, woman''
Image Image
Mary/Gin:''It's like encountering a demon in the darkness...''
Image
Akai Shuichi:''Fear of death is worse than death itself''
Image
Shinichi Kudo:''following the smell of blood to arrive upon a crime scene, using every one of your senses to hunt the culprit, then once you've seized hold of him, sinking your sharp teeth(your evidence) until your opponent gives up the ghost, That's a detective''
DeviantArt:http://meitanteixx.deviantart.com/
Tumblr:http://masterdetectivexx.tumblr.com/
Youtube:https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCFL6Gq ... hWaNIRUu0Q
User avatar
aaron_ouji

Posts:
58

Re: Theory on the History of Elena Miyano/Drug research/''sister outside the domain''/Furuya Rei

Post by aaron_ouji »

The sister outside the domain's voice actor seems to be Atsuko Tanaka. I wonder what that means.
User avatar
MeiTanteixX

Posts:
1307

Re: Theory on the History of Elena Miyano/Drug research/''sister outside the domain''/Furuya Rei

Post by MeiTanteixX »

That means she's for sure a shrunken adult, and not just some smart kid...IMO
DC's Awesome Qoutes:
Spoiler:
Image
Bourbon:''A child's curiosity and a detective's spirit of inquiry do have much in common''
Image
Vermouth:''A secret makes a woman, woman''
Image Image
Mary/Gin:''It's like encountering a demon in the darkness...''
Image
Akai Shuichi:''Fear of death is worse than death itself''
Image
Shinichi Kudo:''following the smell of blood to arrive upon a crime scene, using every one of your senses to hunt the culprit, then once you've seized hold of him, sinking your sharp teeth(your evidence) until your opponent gives up the ghost, That's a detective''
DeviantArt:http://meitanteixx.deviantart.com/
Tumblr:http://masterdetectivexx.tumblr.com/
Youtube:https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCFL6Gq ... hWaNIRUu0Q
Post Reply