I just read over File 179 which the wiki article you linked cites, and there was nothing there that contradicted what Gin said. Sherry said that there were other victims of APTX, nothing about whether they'd been killed before or after Shinichi. Remember - by then it's been several months since Shinichi's "death", and there was plenty of time for it to be tested on other people. So, Gin's statement isn't contradicted, unless you can cite something else that the Wiki-article missed.MeiTanteixX wrote:Yes it was, thanks for the confirmation, cause in all honesty, that's what I believed in the beginning but because it was awhile since I read that chapter, I thought maybe I misunderstood it when @shiromi said that he was the first victim. ^^Spimer wrote:I want to point out that you're making a slight mistake: Gin says in File 1 that Shinichi was the 1st test subject but on Haibara's explanation of the APTX she mentions that several people have been killed with the APTX already, way before Gin used it on Shinichi: so they knew the effectiveness of the drug.
If you look at that list you'll see that everyone else apart from Shinichi had their deaths confirmed by the BO.
http://www.detectiveconanworld.com/wiki ... 69_Victims
In short: what Gin said is File 1 has been retconned and is no longer a valid statement.
I hope this info was of help.
Before they tested it on Shinichi, they'd been testing it on animals. Therefore they would know the effectiveness of the drug, or at least have a pretty good idea of what would happen to humans taking it.
So, your reason for saying that we can't guarantee how much Akai knew about Akemi is your baseless conjecture of Elena being a secret agent. What we do know is that Akai targeted Akemi specifically because of her ties to the BO, despite the fact that she had been allowed a normal life with little supervision from the BO.MeiTanteixX wrote:We can't really guarantee how much Akai really knew about akemi, especially from her mothers side, because if Elena was an agent, background info would be harder to get. So there's no proof Akai really knew about her being his cousin. Call it incest if u want, in some cultures it's even normal anyway(and don't assume I'm talking about Japan).
Sorry, should have prefaced it with "I think that..." I was making a narrative that's about as bound to the known facts as yours was. I was proving that they could be interpreted another, very different way, which means we just don't have enough information to start making useful theories about this.MeiTanteixX wrote:don't know why you're telling me about the information that we already know from the series. About the whole "they didn't know what they were getting into", there's no proof that Elena didn't know beforehand that they were bad. And the whole MI6 Idea was based mostly on analyzing gosho's story writing style. The fact that he mentioned the MI6 and that he also adds agency/intelligences one after another into the series was something that I just couldn't let go of my mind. there's probably a purpose to why gosho is doing that. But ur free to believe that MI6 is unrelated to this. (Btw if it wasn't obvious, I'll tell you now, the "mad scientist" part was a quote from haibara, other than what agasa said, how would I know how his real personality was like)
It's not a matter of belief. It's a matter of how much you can prove. The most you can prove about the nature of the relationship between Scotch and Bourbon is that they're both in the Japanese secret police, and that Bourbon liked Scotch enough to be deeply affected by his death. Other than that, we don't know enough to start saying things like "they were family/lovers/best friends."MeiTanteixX wrote:The Scotch thing is another matter that I have a theory, either way, u are free to believe that he isn't related to rei.
Ah, sorry. Wait a sec.... according to your theory, she gave this drug that kills 99.9% of who take it to her own SISTER??? What kind of depraved monster do you want this woman to be? According to your theory, she's a MI6 agent who had kids (blackmail material) and didn't keep them secret from the BO, then abandoned them to be brainwashed into being good little murdering soldiers for the BO. Then she tests a drug that 99.9% of the time is a deadly untraceable poison to her own sister. At least she made loving tapes for her girls that she abandoned in the maw of the BO.MeiTanteixX wrote:ONCE AGAIN, you are misunderstanding my whole theory!!!! I never said that Elena shrank!!!! Nor did I say she was the little "sister outside the domain"!!! That's why I advice u to read it again....but if u still don't get it, Sera's mom is the little "sister", Elena is sera's aunt, in other words, Sera's mom is Elena's sister!!!
Well, according to Sherry, human testing didn't begin until Gin gave it to Shinichi, and according to Pisco, Sherry's work on it was a definite step forward in the development of the drug. Silver Bullet likely didn't have the dramatic affects that APTX does. If there is someone who was affected by it, it probably was Vermouth, seeing as she hates the Miyanos so much, and she doesn't age. So, it's slightly more likely that it could only halt the aging process, not shrink people.MeiTanteixX wrote:That last sentence doesn't even make sense. Why would u assume that there wasn't an apotoxin victim before shinichi that the BO have no info of.
You're right - 40 year olds might become 13 year olds with APTX. We have no evidence that they do, and as far as we know, all other APTX victims are confirmed dead, and the ones who didn't die all ended up the same age. I reject the idea that the mystery girl is one of the Miyanos' test subjects.MeiTanteixX wrote:According to my theory, the BO shouldn't even know that the Myianos were alive!! Sera's mom didn't shrink inside the BO radar so they wouldn't know if there was a Apt4869 victim before shinichi that got a hold of the drug(according to my theory). And there's nothing proven on the effects of the apotoxin, we don't really know how much every individual would have actually shrunk. So basing ur comment on how much teenagers have shrunk is vague because there's no proof to that a person in her 40's would shrink the same way.
The Miyanos disappeared/died when Sherry was very young. If they've been in hiding ever since, then they wouldn't have the resources or research teams needed to continue work on it, and if they're really dead, then they can't continue work on it. If it halts the aging process, if the mystery girl is Mrs. Sera, then it was given to a middle-school aged child (who's had a lot of children since then). If it shrinks people, then the resulting child should be an adult by now. If it shrinks and stops the aging process, we have no evidence of that. In fact, we don't know what Silver Bullet was made to do or what affects it had, other than there being a lot of excitement about it amongst the Miyanos' research partners. Heck, we don't even know what APTX was made to do.
If the Miyanos are still alive and working on the drug and apparently testing it on human subjects, say with the British government (because in your theory Elena is an MI6 agent), then why aren't Akemi and Shiho safe with them? Akemi wasn't important to the BO; she'd have been easy to get out of their clutches. She, at the very least, wouldn't be in the BO and wouldn't have killed people and died trying to get her sister out, because she'd have the resources of MI6 at her disposal.
When coming up with a theory, it's important to think, "If this is true, what else would it mean?"
"If Elena is an MI6 agent, then she gave the organization she's fighting against weapons against her, gave the organization future members, then abandoned them to that fate, even though she easily could have used her MI6 resources to rescue at the very least Akemi."
"If Mrs. Sera is the mystery child and Elena's sister and given APTX by Elena without the knowledge of the BO, then Elena tried to murder her own sister."
If the above are true, then Elena is a crazy, evil failure of a human being. I don't think Goushou was aiming for that in her characterization.