Discussion Thread: Detective Conan Files 818-824 "Mystery Tr

[Leuconoe]

As for Akai risking showing himself to Bourbon, he can't drop the grenade and risk being seen as Okiya, considering where he's living and with whom he's been associating. Yukiko, Conan, or Agasa could not possibly take the risk of showing themselves either. BUT, if he goes as himself feebly 'disguised' in Sera's hat, he knows that all the smoke would provide some thin veil of protection, with the added bonus of completely messing with Bourbon's head.
And the grenade had to be dropped by someone else at that point for the plan to continue, considering Bourbon had no intention of setting off the first explosion to trigger Vermouth's death-dealing blow.

Pandora isn't so atypically fantastical for the DC canon either, or at least for the BO. Remember the mermaid arrows which grant immortality? And I will never ever ever ever listen to anything Aoyama says in an interview, he's either being incredibly vague, telling half truths or completely lying. (This is not to say that I think (or want) the MK and DC plots will combine, but at this point with the DC manga having run for so long and its end lying very far in the horizon, Aoyama just copping out and intertwining the plots is entirely possible.)

So far, I'm liking the Bourbon arc way more than the Clash of Red & Black arc so I really can't find too much to gripe about.

[queenmisanagi]

So psyched to see KID, period so I'm not complaining. Also Conan and KID has warmed up to each other after meeting so many times and Conan was desperate at that point, I think. So not completely a character flaw. But I wasn't expecting KID at all so it was kind of a deus ex machina scenario. But hey, more KID and I'm not complaining.

[S.Vineyard]

Well, he showed that he has a kind of codex of honor to Conan several times. He even once helped Jirokichi, a guy who spend tons of money to trap KID.

@BO no dangerous: Vermouth wasn't a threat this time, because she got distracted by Yukiko. Conan needed her to get out of the game for this. Also she a least has qualm to harm children.

And yeah, Gin and Vodka were useless in this once...thankfully. You saw how Gin wouldn't even cared if two of his "associates" got killed. And just remember the train case from Volume 4. He would just haved blown up the whole train to get his goal.

But we really need some followup explaination and most likely we will get some in the next file.

[mihai]

But we really need some followup explaination and most likely we will get some in the next file.

like when Yukiko came back home, met(or not) Okiya, how they got him to work together on this. Maybe Gosho will show them talking(Akai, Conan, Yukiko) after the whole case, since Yukiko can't just leave like that right after it.

[User 4869]

@ Kor and El Huesudo II about Bourbon assignment.
http://www.detectiveconanworld.com/wiki ... m_Vermouth

The conversation between Gin and Vermouth about getting the boss's approval can be interpreted as Vermouth informing Gin of Bourbon's plan to disguise as Akai with Vermouth's help and test the reactions of the FBI agents. In that scene, there is a panel with no speech where Vermouth faces Gin and whispers something to him. This signifies a conversation between Gin and Vermouth that the readers were not allowed to hear. At this time, Vermouth informs Gin that Scar Akai is Bourbon in disguise, and that she helped with that disguise as part of a plan to test the FBI's reactions to him to see if Akai is still alive. Gin asks if Vermouth got authorization from the boss to go through with this plan and disguise Bourbon as Akai. Vermouth affirms this and explains that the boss is cautious and wants to make doubly certain the FBI didn't plan a trick with Kir to fake Akai's death.

This conversation implies that the Black Organization lied to Kir about Bourbon's true mission so that Kir could not alert any FBI colleagues that they were going to be probed. Kir was told Bourbon was looking for Sherry.

[conan/over/kudo]

ummm i would just like to point out that maybe one of the reasons Akai appeared as himself was to have Amuro let his guard down, because if you look here
http://www.dctp.ws/V78-Reader/V78-7Read/A9.html
Amuro paused and didn't shoot, thinking that it was Vermouth in disguise.

not to mention the other reasons that other users have already posted, such as it being too risky to appear as Okiya, and that if Bourbon reinvestigates he might stay outta their faces for a while.

i'm still really curious why he stuck around Mouri Detective Agency, and even found the need to hack into Mouri's computer. maybe he was trying to investigate whether or not Akai was alive, which means investigate whether or not Kir was a traitor, which means Mouri might be a contact? i'm not sure...
and on a side note i dont think theres any problem with Amuro still sticking around. i saw no evidence that he knew about Conan and Haibara shrinking, so even though they know who Amuro is, he shouldnt be aware of that. this also depends on whether or not his mission was to find Sherry. because its possible he only happened to come across the footage of Sherry and the kids on Mouri's computer, and he wasnt actually trying to find evidence on her.

just my personal opinions =/

[User 4869]

Since Amuro is the one who come up with the idea of Scar Akai. When he see Akai (after think Akai is dead) He probably think it a disguise. Not to mention he would think he's Vermouth at first.

[musashiro]

for me, this mystery train is not that bad, Gosho owes us some explanations though..

[El Huesudo II]

@ Kor and El Huesudo II about Bourbon assignment.
http://www.detectiveconanworld.com/wiki ... m_Vermouth

[...]

This conversation implies that the Black Organization lied to Kir about Bourbon's true mission so that Kir could not alert any FBI colleagues that they were going to be probed. Kir was told Bourbon was looking for Sherry.

...How could I have missed this? Damn.

Well, in that case, the plot is looking rather bleak right now. The so-called "wedge of steel" is nothing but a time bomb strapped to both Akai and Conan. (And Vermouth. Once someone realizes she knows too much and informs too little, it's game over for her too.)

Unless they pull a fast one on Bourbon and "convince" him that Akai is dead, they're pretty much done for. And, well, we haven't seen Bourbon at his peak performance. He's shown he sucks at being an agent, but his deduction and info gathering skills might actually be top-notch for all we know.

The only thing that could save the situation right now is if Bourbon's loyalties aren't with the BO. We have 2 hints pointing at it (Date Wataru, and his promise to Vermouth), but they're merely hints, not facts...

[Midi]

@ Kor and El Huesudo II about Bourbon assignment.
http://www.detectiveconanworld.com/wiki ... m_Vermouth

[...]

This conversation implies that the Black Organization lied to Kir about Bourbon's true mission so that Kir could not alert any FBI colleagues that they were going to be probed. Kir was told Bourbon was looking for Sherry.

...How could I have missed this? Damn.

Well, in that case, the plot is looking rather bleak right now. The so-called "wedge of steel" is nothing but a time bomb strapped to both Akai and Conan. (And Vermouth. Once someone realizes she knows too much and informs too little, it's game over for her too.)

Unless they pull a fast one on Bourbon and "convince" him that Akai is dead, they're pretty much done for. And, well, we haven't seen Bourbon at his peak performance. He's shown he sucks at being an agent, but his deduction and info gathering skills might actually be top-notch for all we know.

The only thing that could save the situation right now is if Bourbon's loyalties aren't with the BO. We have 2 hints pointing at it (Date Wataru, and his promise to Vermouth), but they're merely hints, not facts...

I am putting my answer under a tag, as it is rather long, and not everyone may want to read it

Spoiler:

And isn't that what's so exciting about this? We do not really know where anyone stands, despite their identities being revealed. I honestly like this better: another Vermouth-type reveal where it's a do-all end-all chapter would have been boring and predictable. As it is, it gives us more to look forward to. This, in fact, could have not been the confrontation with Bourbon at all; I'll honestly be disappointed if he clears out of the Mouri Agency. His main target is terminated, but his link to finding himself there is unclear at best - he must have alternative motives to be at the agency, and quite honestly, no other BO member has ever managed to get the snake this close to the nest. Could he be testing Kogoro? Could Bourbon have 'seen through' Akia's ruse when he sniped at Gin from the roof? If Bourbon hates Akai so much, anything related to him would have interested him, and this one episode may have stuck in his mind.

The theory on them testing the waters with Kir, purposefully feeding her false info so that their own plans would port is very interesting, and quite dangerous. Apart from Vermouth, however, nobody knows that Sherry survived, and since Amuro assumed that Vermouth was the one with the granade (Latex perfection, oh how Gosho loves you), Sera's reaction seems to have sealed the deal on that one. Whether Bourbon took the bait, I'm not sure. Would be more interesting if he hadn't. Can't make it too easy for the boys.

As for Kid's involvement, I apologise if this will annoy some people, but I have only one thing to say: FINALLY. It was ridiculous, how the boy in white hopped around this story, as though Gosho had forgotten he has his own rather dark motives for wearing the monocle. Being the chromatic opposite of Batman was heavily reminded in all the 'Kid Month' last summer, when all the significant Magic Kaito stories were re-animated (...was I the only one who preferred the old art style?). Then there was a special on how Kid's parents met in the manga proper, and a rather heavy lean towards the Kuroba family being vigilante of a rather original sort. It's making me wonder whether Gosho was a) hoodwinking us; b) has changed his mind; on Kid and the BO. Logically (and in DC, logic is paramount), two organisations of that level sharing Tokyo as turf would cause massive territory conflict. Even if one considers the possibility that they tollerate each other, their motives are too similar. APTX is a recycle of the Pandora idea - possibly not something Gosho considered using as a link at the start, since DC was supposed to be short. But now it is there, and as a mystery author worth his salt, and a Holmes fan moreover, he knows that the coincidence grates on the mind. As an avid mystery fan, it annoyed me quite a bit that this obvious link, no matter how originally unintended, had been ignored. Once Kid made his first appearance on DC, ignoring it became ... criminal.

Canon's attitude towards Kid has also gradually been changing. Mourice LeBlanc's Lupin did, often, collaborate with Holmes (or Sholmes. Rather funny story, that), most notably in The Hollow Needle. The first time our boys collaborated openly was in the Iron Tanuki case, where the respect for one another was rather openly displayed in the amicable conversation. Kid has made sure to save the knee-high sleuth at every turn, and Shinichi is cunning; he knows a good ally when he sees one. I found movie 14, while not canon, so entertaining because it is something that actually may occur. Rather than Kid knowing Conan's identity, it was the level of co-operation mixed with rivalry and comraderie that can be found between the original two, Lupin and Holmes, that made it so entertaining. I'm hoping this rather unsightly plot-hole may get patched up, at last.

tl;dr In short, I am quite satisfied at the moment with where things are going. I am hoping against hope that we won't get a Bourbon retreat, as it would not make sense. I am happily anticipating that, should Bourbon stay, things will come to a REAL head, rather than this false climax, and Bourbon may perhaps be another grey character, instead of black or white as Shinichi and Gin are. And finally, I am hoping that the link between Kid's organisation and Conan's is finally explored, because frankly, once KID stepped into DC, the clues in that direction needed to be explored. With so many good detectives on hand, at least one of them should have realised that Kid isn't doing it quite for fun alone.

[hidden ninja]

hi everybody, this file was a huge disappointement to me; since Akai has just worn a wig not changing & not straightened it as i think. it would be more better if akai had dyed his hair and straightened it instead of wearing a wig or a mask... gosho i'll kill you because Okiya' s appearence is going to disappear
you guys, what do u think concerning this ?
do you prefer Okiya's hair or Akai's one ?

[El Huesudo II]

I am putting my answer under a tag, as it is rather long, and not everyone may want to read it

Spoiler:

And isn't that what's so exciting about this? We do not really know where anyone stands, despite their identities being revealed. I honestly like this better: another Vermouth-type reveal where it's a do-all end-all chapter would have been boring and predictable. As it is, it gives us more to look forward to. This, in fact, could have not been the confrontation with Bourbon at all; I'll honestly be disappointed if he clears out of the Mouri Agency. His main target is terminated, but his link to finding himself there is unclear at best - he must have alternative motives to be at the agency, and quite honestly, no other BO member has ever managed to get the snake this close to the nest. Could he be testing Kogoro? Could Bourbon have 'seen through' Akia's ruse when he sniped at Gin from the roof? If Bourbon hates Akai so much, anything related to him would have interested him, and this one episode may have stuck in his mind.

The theory on them testing the waters with Kir, purposefully feeding her false info so that their own plans would port is very interesting, and quite dangerous. Apart from Vermouth, however, nobody knows that Sherry survived, and since Amuro assumed that Vermouth was the one with the granade (Latex perfection, oh how Gosho loves you), Sera's reaction seems to have sealed the deal on that one. Whether Bourbon took the bait, I'm not sure. Would be more interesting if he hadn't. Can't make it too easy for the boys.

As for Kid's involvement, I apologise if this will annoy some people, but I have only one thing to say: FINALLY. It was ridiculous, how the boy in white hopped around this story, as though Gosho had forgotten he has his own rather dark motives for wearing the monocle. Being the chromatic opposite of Batman was heavily reminded in all the 'Kid Month' last summer, when all the significant Magic Kaito stories were re-animated (...was I the only one who preferred the old art style?). Then there was a special on how Kid's parents met in the manga proper, and a rather heavy lean towards the Kuroba family being vigilante of a rather original sort. It's making me wonder whether Gosho was a) hoodwinking us; b) has changed his mind; on Kid and the BO. Logically (and in DC, logic is paramount), two organisations of that level sharing Tokyo as turf would cause massive territory conflict. Even if one considers the possibility that they tollerate each other, their motives are too similar. APTX is a recycle of the Pandora idea - possibly not something Gosho considered using as a link at the start, since DC was supposed to be short. But now it is there, and as a mystery author worth his salt, and a Holmes fan moreover, he knows that the coincidence grates on the mind. As an avid mystery fan, it annoyed me quite a bit that this obvious link, no matter how originally unintended, had been ignored. Once Kid made his first appearance on DC, ignoring it became ... criminal.

Canon's attitude towards Kid has also gradually been changing. Mourice LeBlanc's Lupin did, often, collaborate with Holmes (or Sholmes. Rather funny story, that), most notably in The Hollow Needle. The first time our boys collaborated openly was in the Iron Tanuki case, where the respect for one another was rather openly displayed in the amicable conversation. Kid has made sure to save the knee-high sleuth at every turn, and Shinichi is cunning; he knows a good ally when he sees one. I found movie 14, while not canon, so entertaining because it is something that actually may occur. Rather than Kid knowing Conan's identity, it was the level of co-operation mixed with rivalry and comraderie that can be found between the original two, Lupin and Holmes, that made it so entertaining. I'm hoping this rather unsightly plot-hole may get patched up, at last.

tl;dr In short, I am quite satisfied at the moment with where things are going. I am hoping against hope that we won't get a Bourbon retreat, as it would not make sense. I am happily anticipating that, should Bourbon stay, things will come to a REAL head, rather than this false climax, and Bourbon may perhaps be another grey character, instead of black or white as Shinichi and Gin are. And finally, I am hoping that the link between Kid's organisation and Conan's is finally explored, because frankly, once KID stepped into DC, the clues in that direction needed to be explored. With so many good detectives on hand, at least one of them should have realised that Kid isn't doing it quite for fun alone.

Oh, it's exciting alright. But it kinda looks like the BO is moments from being dealt the winning hand. As I said, the "wedge of steel" feels more like a death trap, a Sword of Damocles dangling above Conan. If that's all Conan has against the BO, then things are looking too bleak.

It all depends on Amuro now, and what he does, and what he finds.

As for Kid, I agree with you. It was about damn time that he stopped being a mere cameo and got actively involved on the plot. I do hope this isn't a one-time thing and that Kid's role in Conan keeps growing.

I don't like the idea of the Magic Kaito Organization and the BO being one and the same, but that's not the only possibility around. Maybe the former is not as big as one might think, and are merely pursuing a mythical object that doesn't exist. Maybe the latter knows about the Pandora Jewel, but their standing on it is that it's merely a legend, and they're trying to make part of it a reality through science. Who knows?

[MagicianUndertheMoonlight]

I doubt you would have a MK Organization / BO crossover since the two manga may not share readership. Gosho hasn't indicated that readers should be following both manga and has said in interviews that he doesn't want to intertwine the titles too much.

[El Huesudo II]

But he kinda already did, sort of.

[MagicianUndertheMoonlight]

He had Kid crossover but not Kid's organization or anything with Pandora. I would think he'd keep those storylines separate while allowing characters to participate in both without exclusion.