Unpopular Opinions about the Detective Conan

[Osaka Detective]

Harro people! This thread is to talk about your opinions that you feel are not popular or well received by fans of Detective Conan, whether on youtube, on forums or on whatever!

This is what does not qualify as an unpopular opinion (because, it's popular?):
Kaito Kid-sama is the best character in DC *fangirl scream*

Anyways, respect other people's opinions and tryyyyy not to flame stuff.

PS: The idea came from the 'unpopular opinions' thread in serebii forum manga section.

Imma kick off with..

- I think Kir is the 'strongest' character in the 'Black Org Related Law Enforcement' people (bar Akai)...
which includes Jodie, Camel, James and Ethan (who should be out due to his bare appearances). After Akai, I think Kir is stronger than Jodie, Camel or James. It's pretty impressive considering how she could sneak into the Organisation as a CIA agent, earn a codename and stay undercovered when none of the onscreen FBIs could do it. One thing that puts her in front of Jodie in toughness is that Jodie did not see her father's body, but Kir saw her father die right in front of her eyes, blood exploding everywhere and soon gave a report to Gin and Vodka. Also, there's this scene in the Clash of Red and Black about the doctor doing the pain test thingy to show if the person is awake. If Kir was truly awake then, we could infer that she has a great pain tolerance. And aside from that, I find her kind of cute lol.

[yukitsukihana]

I...actually agree about the Kir thing, and don't understand how it could be an unpopular opinion (especially with the part about the pain test)

I think Shinichi is falling down a slippery slope of morals
Barring the huge list of crimes he's committed (I knew I made that list for a reason), he's recently become...worse. Like the stress of being Conan and the paranoia of being found out is finally getting to him. Not only is he still lying to Ran (trust issues right there, yep),

Spoiler: manga spoilers

but in the Mystery Train case, he pretty much threw Kid to the wolves. He had no way of knowing that Bourbon wouldn't shoot Sherry on sight, and the explosives was a surprise to pretty much everyone save Vermouth. It's like, "in exchange for your freedom, I'm going to toss you in a position where there's every real chance that you could die. But I'm not going to tell you that, because you're a criminal."

Additionally, we as readers know that Kogorou is a decently competent detective (actually would this be considered another unpopular opinion?). Not a genius like the kids, but he was still able to keep his detective agency afloat for many years (though barely). Instead of giving Kogorou a chance to solve a case by himself, or even lead him to the correct answer like he does with the police officers, he instantly resorts to the sleeping dart and voice changer.
It all makes me wonder if he'll ever go back on his promise to not let even murderers die.

mod e: please remember to spoiler future manga cases.

[kkslider5552000]

If it wasn't for the insane amount of time spent on it, the Bourbon arc would still be better than the Kir arc.
2 very, very simple reasons for this.

1. Eisuke was never a threat to anything, anyone, anywhere. The attempts to do so were ridiculous, failed massively and did nothing to make me want to know what his deal was, especially since there was better stuff in the same vain alluding to his character (and Kir's) in different ways. And most of that was honestly more interesting in retrospect, Eisuke was just a comic relief character as far as I'm concerned, which is not what I'd put as the focus of your plot. Despite obvious real identity and unintentional hilarity, I still think Okiya could do something awesome or dark or twisted if necessary, not to mention our other silly mystery characters.
2. Almost everything between plot cases felt like filler. Since Haibara's appearance the goofy and flawed but still interesting and enjoyable romance subplots and little bits of character development have kept the ball rolling between the "important" episodes. Even if those cases technically are mostly still just another case that will never affect anything once it's over, what we do get does feel like something I want to pay attention to. So even for how little real development we often get in the series, the stuff between the plot cases during this arc had nothing. Eri getting a cat was among the most notable parts of any of those cases and especially before the 470s, it felt far more pointless than usual. Not to mention the worst use of the Detective Boys was during that time.

Again, the year and a half filler for the Bourbon arc...was also more pointless than usual (other than hopefully killing the overdone "he's not my boyfriend!" Ran denial thing), which is why I can't defend it as much anymore.

speaking of which

I really like the scene where Conan says Eisuke can't confess to Ran
This scene gets a lot of crap, and I get why, but I actually think it works really well. Now, this might be partially because I love everything else about the whole ending to that episode, but I think it works perfectly with Conan's character. Shinichi is kind of an asshole. I'm obviously not the first person to notice this and the early parts of the series were clearly used to make him less of an asshole, but that doesn't mean he isn't kind of an asshole at points. Like honestly, I would have been far more annoyed had he not stopped Eisuke, as I can't see him being ok with any guy confessing to Ran. Ever. It honestly makes me wish they'd really go more into the psychology of it or whatever, but that's clearly not going to happen.

It would be for the best interest of the series for Ran to find out Conan's identity.
Just do it, there's nothing you can do with this part of the plot anymore.

[Pmofmalasia]

I really like the scene where Conan says Eisuke can't confess to Ran
This scene gets a lot of crap, and I get why, but I actually think it works really well. Now, this might be partially because I love everything else about the whole ending to that episode, but I think it works perfectly with Conan's character. Shinichi is kind of an asshole. I'm obviously not the first person to notice this and the early parts of the series were clearly used to make him less of an asshole, but that doesn't mean he isn't kind of an asshole at points. Like honestly, I would have been far more annoyed had he not stopped Eisuke, as I can't see him being ok with any guy confessing to Ran. Ever. It honestly makes me wish they'd really go more into the psychology of it or whatever, but that's clearly not going to happen.

People don't like that scene? Didn't know that. It's one of my favorite parts of the series, I think the delivery is especially great.

[Chekhov MacGuffin]

I think Kir is the 'strongest' character in the 'Black Org Related Law Enforcement' people (bar Akai)...

Kir may not be as intelligent as Akai, but her strength might surpass him in some areas. She thinks going for help from others is a good idea, something Akai is loathe to do. It worked for her. It's pretty rare for females to be strong in DC, usually they eventually get overshadowed by men. Vermouth (a lead antagonist), Sato (whom Gosho didn't fully create), Eri (only sort of), and Yukiko (only whenever Yuusaku is not around) have managed to escape being pulled into the orbit of a more impressive man and thus consistently outshined.

People don't like that scene? Didn't know that. It's one of my favorite parts of the series, I think the delivery is especially great.

I saw somebody unhappy about it once because they didn't like the idea of one man asking another for permission to date a girl, as if the girl's opinion didn't matter. The fact is though that Eisuke was purposefully confronting Conan to goad him into outing himself as Shinichi. If Eisuke really wanted to take Ran to America, he would have asked her. That would be more in character for him.

A lot of people tend to rag on Eisuke in general. I understand certain character types get on people's nerves, but I think a lot of people dislike him because they see others disliking him. In truth he is a pretty unique character: you don't often see clutzy guys who are also intelligent. Usually that is a girl character type.

---

Real unpopular opinion time...

Haibara is an awkward character
Ai's character has always bothered me because I feel like the strings Gosho uses to make her dance to plot are more visible than those of the other characters. In the best fiction, you do not notice that the author is controlling a character's actions towards a certain end because the character's actions are consistent with their personality and their past behavior. Likewise, a good puppeteer draws your entire focus to the puppets so that you completely forget about the strings the puppet is being manipulated with. A problem occurs when there is a contradiction between the author's need to maintain the plot and the readers' expectations of the character's behavior. Haibara has developed into an awkward character because currently there does not seem to be a good reason for the discrepancy between her intent (she wants to prevent her friends from being killed while they destroy an evil organization) and her actions (give out as little useful information as possible to said friends). Gosho seems to have written himself into a corner here, because he can't ruin the big mysteries that Haibara knows the answers to, even though Haibara's character has become more trusting and confident in her friends.

The second thing that calls attention to her awkwardness is the disconnect between her character development outside Black Org cases and her behavior in them. She has become a more outgoing character outside of Black Org cases, communicating with and trusting the others more. However, in Black Org cases, despite her decision to no longer run away, she still goes off alone thinking she needs to sacrifice herself, rather than trying to work with her friends for a better solution. She seems to completely forget the trust and bonds she has built with others. Since her character development has occurred extensively outside of Org cases, it should carry back to Org related situations, even just a little (i.e her telling Conan beforehand she wants to do something sacrificial because she sees no way out.) Gosho could also give her a monologue explaining that the Black Org causes irrational fear to take over, so explaining her regressions. Leaving it unspoken gives Haibara character whiplash when cases switch between Org and not Org.

---

Finally, not sure if this is an unpopular opinion, but most of Gosho's protagonists don't share information often enough. I am fine with reticence being a character flaw, but there needs to be consequences. It happened once where Conan failed to inform Agasa about his Vermouth suspicions, so Agasa invited over Araide and Jodie when Haibara was sick. Since then though, there has been few consequences for the protagonists, despite the same flaw causing plenty of trouble for the Black Org. It has become too noticeable.

[Kor]

Finally, not sure if this is an unpopular opinion, but most of Gosho's protagonists don't share information often enough. I am fine with reticence being a character flaw, but there needs to be consequences. It happened once where Conan failed to inform Agasa about his Vermouth suspicions, so Agasa invited over Araide and Jodie when Haibara was sick. Since then though, there has been few consequences for the protagonists, despite the same flaw causing plenty of trouble for the Black Org. It has become too noticeable.

Was gonna say that's not completely true and there were consequences, but the only example I could think of is Haibara in episode 345. She didn't know about the whole plan, so she followed him, which kinda ruined his original plan.
Other than that, can't think of anything else.

Not sure if this is unpopular, but...

Gosho is lazy -
When it comes to B.O. arcs, the whole basic premise of each one of those arcs is this: Secret identity.
It doesn't matter whether or not there are masks involved or not.
Vermouth arc: We're supposed to think Jodie is Vermouth. Turns out Vermouth was disguised as Araide. Oh, and Jodie is an FBI agent.
Kir arc: Supposed to think Eisuke is a threat. Kir turns out to be a CIA agent.

Spoiler:

Bourbon arc: Same stuff

True, this is a mystery series, so there's little that can be done, but the problem is that Gosho uses the same tricks to throw us off (Haibara, alcohol), so it just feels repetitive (let's not forget one of the main elements in the series overall is Conan being a secret identity).
To be more specific, the reuse of masks is the most jarring of all. We have so much of that stuff in Kid cases, but whenever Vermouth (or Yukikuo) is involved, you know there'll be some use of masks or disguise.
When you overuse something, it loses its charm.

[kkslider5552000]

I agree with what you're trying to say, but I can't particularly go that far to call him lazy, at least for the most part (some of the ideas are way too samey, even with everything else I'm about to say considered). I mean, Detective Conan's biggest strength and weakness is probably its refusal to not change its identity as a murder mystery of the x number of weeks series despite everything. I can only imagine the difficulty of trying to build any serious storylines while simultaneously trying to make constantly entertaining and engaging murder mysteries based on tons of stuff that Gosho has to research about, especially with the type of schedule mangaka have. He's pratically writing 2 series at once in a way.

This is honestly the answer I got from the insane decision to stop an already slooooow story arc halfway through for over a year. He had to think ahead on what to do next, both in terms of the direction he wants to go with it and even more specific details. I have to believe that's true considering how bizarrely consistent he's been with plot related cases for a while now, and also how every other case has done something that was honestly a bit unexpected (if not particularly innovative).

[Kudo Shinchi]

Ok, here we go...

The Bourbon Arc is underrated
It's not up to the level of the genius Vermouth arc, but its still pretty great. Yes, there was that dreadful year and a half long break but otherwise the pacing was fine, and in fact the breakneck pace of the story now (by DC standards) more than makes up for it. Now, I wouldn't be saying this about the pre-Sera Bourbon arc, but since she came into the picture the plot has really picked up and several intriguing, genuinely challenging and fun mysteries related to the plot outside of character identities have been brought up,and the three mystery characters are all awesome. Also, unprecedented progress has been made in this arc on the relationship sides of things (Sato and Takagi, Kobayahi and Shiratori, Shinichi and Ran) so that's a plus and possibly a sign of an ending in the near future (half a decade, maybe )

Gosho is underrated
I feel he doesn't get enough credit for his work. He has to keep track of character development, plot development, story pacing, relationship plot developments, and weekly murder mysteries all at once, and with an extremely packed and busy schedule. When that much is going on, of course he's going to slip here or there. That DC has managed to retain most of its previous quality for this long is downright incredible, IMO.

Ran is a pretty smart character
I mean, she suspected Conan of being Shinichi pretty early on, and even after being apparently disproved once became suspicious several more times. when people call her dumb for not putting two and two together, they seem to be forgetting that Conan has an entire team (Haibara, Yukiko, Heiji, Agasa) that help him come up with elaborate schemes to fool her, while she's on her own. Also, let's not forget Ran figured out a case mostly on her own before, shortly before the end of the Vermouth arc. That's more than can be said of Sonoko and Kazuha

Adults in DC are competent/intelligent
Many seem to feel that the police in DC, or adults in general, are pretty useless and that only Conan/Heiji have the brains or abilities to get anything done. I disagree with this, as counter-examples are numerous. Okiya is very smart, as are Kansuke and Koumei. Sato has proved her abilities as an officer many times, and Takagi can and has figured out a lot on his own. Even Kogoro is scarily competent when he wants to be.

DC should end soon
Love it to death, but it's been going for long enough. It' be nice to get a solid conclusion.

Also, on how Gosho writes story arcs: I think the reason why they might seem redundant is because Goshso needs to advance the plot while simultaneously maintaining most of the status quo, and that's the best way to do it. Also, let's not forget the various other interesting mysteries Gosho has set up outside of character identities. (Itakura's CD, Elena's tapes, true purpose of BO, secret info on Haibara's floppy disk, Vermouth's no-aging, etc.) More so, if you believe Akai to be alive (virtually everyone) then you have to find out how he faked his death, which certainly wasn't done before the Kir arc. Besides, as mentioned above, Gosho doesn't get enough credit for the effort it takes to set up these long story arcs. He has to pace the arc, place enough hints in the right places, and then wrap up the arc carefully while keeping track of everything else in the manga. I remember Gosho mentioning in an interview that wrapping up the Vermouth arc was especially tiring because he had to bring all the hints he'd placed subtly in the manga to solve the arc's major mysteries in one large climax. Or something like that.

[Kor]

These are some good points. Perhaps I should say "he's lazy with his actual plot" or "he's repetitive" (though that's not an unpopular opinion. EHEM masks EHEM childhood friends).
He's a good mystery writer, but not the greatest story teller. Here are a few examples.

Characters: As I have said in the Story Board, Gosho is constantly throwing himself into corners when he's introducing new characters. After he's done with what he planned for them (or their purpose in the story), I don't think he's capable of using them in a good way.
Our first case is Haibara, who after episode 345, is much less interesting and isn't as important (also what Chekhov said above).
Second case is Eisuke, who was sent to America - this is both good and bad. It's good because if there's no more use for him, we don't need to see him for no good reason. It's bad because it means Gosho had no clue what to do with this character after his purpose was achieved. (I fairly doubt there will be a payoff for Eisuke going to the US, but if there will be, I'll praise Gosho as long as it makes sense.
I'd also like to note Jodie (in the Bourbon arc) feels OOC compared to her earlier days.
In the current arc we have a bunch of new characters. While I don't doubt some of these new characters remain in some way, I have a feeling some of them will either disappear or just become purposeless.
What I hope for the next arc is that it will bring us closer to the end. Otherwise I fear it will just be another "OMG new B.O. member" for another 200 files.
Introducing new colorful characters is always easier than developing your existing ones. DC already has such a huge cast of characters, so why not do something with them? (I do acknowledge most of the DC cast is part of, as you said, Gosho's "other series" thus they can't really be incorporated to the story.

Hmm...I'm kinda dipping into the "What I think it should be like" area, which isn't a good way to criticize fiction. Oh well, I'll roll with it.

Story vs. Status Quo:

I mean, Detective Conan's biggest strength and weakness is probably its refusal to not change its identity as a murder mystery of the x number of weeks series despite everything. I can only imagine the difficulty of trying to build any serious storylines while simultaneously trying to make constantly entertaining and engaging murder mysteries based on tons of stuff that Gosho has to research about, especially with the type of schedule mangaka have. He's pratically writing 2 series at once in a way.

Yes, he's a good mystery writer, but that doesn't necessarily mean he's a good story teller. The whole "monster of the 3 weeks" nature of the series is, as you said, both good and bad. It's good because it's accessible for new audience. It's good because it's simple. It's good because it can (and does) go on for years. However these cases are usually formatted in the same way.
On the other hand, the story (or the current B.O. arc) is not as engaging as it used to be in the "129-345" area. This is sadly because Gosho is reusing the same ideas he has used in the past. I don't dislike his manga fillers - heck, they actually make his main plot more anticipated (without 200 chapters between B.O. cases, I doubt they would have been as appreciated). My problem is that in his B.O. arcs he resorts to the same things and the same ideas. What I'm trying to say is that even his B.O. arcs have a STATUS QUO sign on them. So basically while he has a status quo for regular cases, he kinda got his important B.O. cases into a status quo of their own, which is why I feel the way he handles his B.O. arcs in a bit of a lazy way.

[Jd-]

This topic has turned out to be more interesting than I expected. Here's mine, and this one is going to summon the beats:

There are a number of AOs that are better than manga cases of their corresponding era.

I'm ready.

[Wakarimashita]

This topic has turned out to be more interesting than I expected. Here's mine, and this one is going to summon the beats:

There are a number of AOs that are better than manga cases of their corresponding era.

I'm ready.

You've got to give examples now.

That opinion is somewhat true for the first 300 or so episodes IMO, not more.

[Kudo Shinchi]

@Kor I think Gosho's stotytelling methods were very creative and innovative the first time around, but have become redundant and not as exciting due to their repeated use. Still, the Kir arc and the Bourbon arc are different enough from the Vermouth arc to not be the same thing. Still, I agree the "figure out identity of new character" part of it has become a bit overused.

Spoiler:

I think Haibara has become more important in the current arc then she's been in ages. The MT case was focused on her, and her interactions with Okiya re obviously leading up to something big. I think not so much a case of Haibara losing her importance as it is that she was put on hold because the cellphone and Kir arcs had to come before the Bourbon arc, in which Haibara plays a major part. Its just that it took ages for the cellphone arc, Kir arc, and first half of the Bourbon arc to finish.

Also, most of Jodie's apparent OOCness this arc can to be attributed to Akai's death. Only real OOC moment for her was probably the shrine case, and IMO that's arguable.

Also, another opinion:

Childhood friend romances in DC are fine
Really, they get a lot of flak just because they show up a lot. Doesn't really bother me, tbh.

[Kor]

This topic has turned out to be more interesting than I expected. Here's mine, and this one is going to summon the beats:

There are a number of AOs that are better than manga cases of their corresponding era.

I'm ready.

This would probably be easier to agree/disagree if you actually provide examples

Ok, here we go...

Gosho is underrated
I feel he doesn't get enough credit for his work. He has to keep track of character development, plot development, story pacing, relationship plot developments, and weekly murder mysteries all at once, and with an extremely packed and busy schedule. When that much is going on, of course he's going to slip here or there. That DC has managed to retain most of its previous quality for this long is downright incredible, IMO.

I don't think he's underrated. Just because I criticize him doesn't mean I think he's crappy (though he does have his moments). Most of the things you've mentioned (character and plot development) aren't things he should be given credit for keeping track of. Any competent writer needs to keep track of his own characters and plots. I do think he's dropping hints in a good way (though it does feel easier this time around because we know his schticks).
On the relationship plots? No, I can't give him credit for that. The whole relationships fiasco is one of the most jarring things about Gosho, especially since he reuses the same childhood friends idea over and over. The takagi and Sato plot were good, but it took also took forever.

DC should end soon
Love it to death, but it's been going for long enough. It' be nice to get a solid conclusion.

I wouldn't count on it ending anytime soon

[kkslider5552000]

This topic has turned out to be more interesting than I expected. Here's mine, and this one is going to summon the beats:

There are a number of AOs that are better than manga cases of their corresponding era.

I'm ready.

that's easy

0.

...what? Zero is a number!

But seriously, Seance Case, Mask Coldly Laughs or whatever, there's probably worse or at least less fun DB cases in the first year or 2 than the first couple of DB AOs that were goofy fun. Not the most controversial thing. Most importantly, I'd say at least 1/3 of the modern AOs are better than the Chiba love story nonsense.

You could argue one of the best post Haibara intro cases was the Kogoro focused AO with his former pupil or whoever.

There are 2 1 part AOs that I remember liking more than the 3 part cases in the early 400s.

I mean, Detective Conan's biggest strength and weakness is probably its refusal to not change its identity as a murder mystery of the x number of weeks series despite everything. I can only imagine the difficulty of trying to build any serious storylines while simultaneously trying to make constantly entertaining and engaging murder mysteries based on tons of stuff that Gosho has to research about, especially with the type of schedule mangaka have. He's pratically writing 2 series at once in a way.

Yes, he's a good mystery writer, but that doesn't necessarily mean he's a good story teller. The whole "monster of the 3 weeks" nature of the series is, as you said, both good and bad. It's good because it's accessible for new audience. It's good because it's simple. It's good because it can (and does) go on for years. However these cases are usually formatted in the same way.
On the other hand, the story (or the current B.O. arc) is not as engaging as it used to be in the "129-345" area. This is sadly because Gosho is reusing the same ideas he has used in the past. I don't dislike his manga fillers - heck, they actually make his main plot more anticipated (without 200 chapters between B.O. cases, I doubt they would have been as appreciated). My problem is that in his B.O. arcs he resorts to the same things and the same ideas. What I'm trying to say is that even his B.O. arcs have a STATUS QUO sign on them. So basically while he has a status quo for regular cases, he kinda got his important B.O. cases into a status quo of their own, which is why I feel the way he handles his B.O. arcs in a bit of a lazy way.

I don't really disagree much with this. It's more that Gosho, as far as I'm concerned, has kept it engaging despite that. I find being objectively worse but still being as engaging as the best writers, to be kind of impressive in its own sort of way. I mean I have biased reasons for thinking that, being as big a fan as I am, but still I feel like he's mostly done at excellent job at maximum interest in where a plot is going, without the level of storytelling associated with that. Which feels kinda fitting for long running shonen tbh. (though obviously not everyone agrees, which I understand completely)

Like, I agree with not treating Gosho as some flawless writer, as he clearly isn't. I really hate it when people assume without evidence that whenever their favorite writer makes a mistake, it has to have been the editor's fault, or just anyone else. And yes there are valid reasons to think that for some writers sometimes but I usually see it as an excuse to give all the praise to the writer and all the complaints to someone else.

[Conan-chandesune]

I agree with all unpopular opinions but one.

This topic has turned out to be more interesting than I expected. Here's mine, and this one is going to summon the beats:

There are a number of AOs that are better than manga cases of their corresponding era.

I'm ready.

I cannot believe this. Examples??? Reasons???