(Episode 230) Busjacking - AI's weird question

[Divin]

Hello fellow detectives,

as I was watching some of my favorite episodes again, I came across a very weird mental remark of Haibara.

During the busjacking case (Episodes 230) we listen to her inner monologue about Vermouth and the pressure she is causing her. There she thinks the following:

"Is she with the organization? Is she after me?"

As I only watched the anime and couldn't find a reliable manga version of this case, I don't know if this utterance is canon.
But if it is I find it very weird. I mean, what is the alternative to Vermouth being with the organization???

We could, of course, contribute this nonsensical query (thank you Dr. Sheldon Cooper) to a state of mental distress.
Nevertheless I wanted to post this question out there, whether there might be an alternative that Haibara is aware of and we are not, even if I find myself in the category of nonsensical queries.

[xpon]

not really.

at that time, we all think that Jodie is somehow connected with BO. and Ai never see this person before but she got BO scent on the bus ( which we later found out that being released from Dr.Araide )

so it is normal for her to ask if she is from the organizations.

[sstimson]

As you likely Xpon know, Jodie manner and behavior before and during this case tell me that she is a friendly of the police. More evidences of this can be shown by putting puzzle clues of gosho together. We know she was there during Ran play case (Both Jodie and Vermouth) We learn later that Jodie KNEW who Vermouth was acting as, and likely either before or so after the Vermouth switched, started teaching English at Ran's school. Again note Jodie while hiding she was FBI, never hid from anyone and characters studies of Detective Conan Characters show that she does not fit the BO mode, Araide after that case does. Again I can partial agree that Gosho clearly shows his hand if you look. And I learned a lot with my characters studies. It was clear if you look that Jodie was never BAD.

This story introduced a character that at the start did look bad, hidden, little lines, and looks that could look evil. That character was Akai. Haibara radar can sense more then one BO characters but it seem that one bad characters can overwhelm her radar with their badness.

[Divin]

I think, we can agree...
... that Gosho wanted us to believe Jodie is Vermouth
... that if you read or watched carefully, you would have seen that this isn't the case

But this isn't the question, at least not mine . She clearly identifies that 'scent' as Vermouth's and knows that Vermouth is on the bus, still she asks:

"Is she with the organization?"

That is what I don't get. That "she" doesn't (or shouldn't) refer to Jodie, but to Vermouth and then the question remains:
What is the alternative to Vermouth being with the organization?

[kkslider5552000]

The only logical explanation I can think of is it's just the worst worded way to wonder "Is she alone or are other members of the Organization around?"

[Abs.]

The phrase in question is awkward in Japanese as well:

Page 8
2.1.  ã‚„ã

[Chekhov MacGuffin]

The phrase in question is awkward in Japanese as well:

Page 8
2.1. やっぱり組織の人間？　私を追って来たの？
2.2. それとも偶然？

It really does imply that Haibara was unsure about Vermouth's status. Perhaps that foreshadowed the questions about Vermouth's loyalty later.

Even now, the best I can translate it as is, "So she's with the organization, then? Has she come in pursuit of me?" "Or is it just by chance that she's here?"

(in response to kkslider:) **"with" in reference to association, not physical presence... "a person belonging to the organization"... "with" is used in the translation to lend the right amount of ambiguity so that it wouldn't raise too many red flags unless you looked into it very closely...

There's every indication, looking back, that Haibara didn't know who Vermouth was disguised as (although the reader at that point was supposed to have assumed it was Jodie). It could have been any of the teachers, or any other random person on the bus. But nonetheless she knew Vermouth was disguised. That suggests that there might be some other reason Vermouth has to 1) be in Japan, and 2) go around in disguises, besides "Sherry Hunting."

Maybe "So she's with the organization, then?" is an awkwardly worded way to ask "Is she here on Org business?" or "Has she come over with the rest of the Organization?"

This discussion reminds me of Akai's "Favoritism won't come out of this in the end" line.

No no no... Her question isn't that of "org business" or, again, a question of "presence"... It really does seem to question Vermouth's allegiance...

やっぱり組織の人間？

Yappari / soshiki / no / ningen?

As I thought / organization / 's / person?

[Abs.]

No no no... Her question isn't that of "org business" or, again, a question of "presence"...  It really does seem to question Vermouth's allegiance...

ã‚„ã

[D.]

It really does seem confusing. But do you think it is worth it? I mean aren't we making something small very big? We all now know that Vermouth is with the BO.

[sstimson]

My thought time. Might it be: So that the org. person?

[Abs.]

Even now, when we know Vermouth is "with the BO" she does wish for Shinichi to take the BO down.

[D.]

Even now, when we know Vermouth is "with the BO" she does wish for Shinichi to take the BO down.

Yeah, you're right. But does she do anything other than "wishing" for Shinichi to stop the BO? I don't think that anyone knows that she wants the BO to fall down. It will be different if Ai knew that and had the possibility of Vermouth deciding to go against the organization herself.

[Divin]

[quote]ã‚„ã

[Xtian]

Newbie here to give his opinion.

I'll have to disagree with Abs.

Ai's inner thought is never focused on "vermouth."  She just recognizes the same type of "scent" that she felt during the time with Pisco.  The "stronger" scent. 

And Ai says "What is this pressure? it is the same bad feeling as that time!"

The translation from here should be "it's here, THAT person is in this bus!"
Ai never uses "her" because she's not talking about Vermouth, she's talking about the "PRESSURE" so she doesn't know who that BO person is at this time.

then the translation should be "As I thought, SOMEONE from the Organization, who's after me?" <--- i would use this sentence structure to leave to gender out of the translation, or something like "Someone from the Organization? Is this person after me?"

My take is that AI isn't aware of Vermouth at all, but just the "pressure" and from this perspective, Ai's words are just a questions of "PRESENCE" and I see nothing at all that makes Ai think/doubt Vermouth's allegiance/etc.  Ai is just scared of this PRESSURE and wondering if that PRESSURE knows she's here or just by coincidence.

I think putting "she" in here is too early as a translation, and it's more interpretation than a faithful translation in my opinion.

[sstimson]

A thought entered my head. Remember Yukiko almost asking the same question: Is she really a BO?

Abs, just curious. How is Yukiko question phrased?

Also Did Ran tell Haibara any thing about Sharon? Might Haibara be wondering if such a person is really bad. Could it be a question of doubt?

Also to the above, a minor grammar lesson

"it's here, THAT person is in this bus!"

is better as "It's here. That person is ON this bus!"

"As I thought, SOMEONE from the Organization, who's after me?"

is better as "I think it's someone from the Organization. Who could be after me?"

"Someone from the Organization? Is this person after me?"

is better as "Could it be someone from the Organization? Are they after me?"

Just minor grammar suggestions