2011 September Anime Episodes Schedule COMPLETED!!! (3 AO, 1

[sonoci]

As I see it, the magic Akako uses is not common knowledge in the least. I'd say her, her servant thing and Kaito are the only ones who know about it. Thus, even if it does exist, if no one is aware of it, its existence shouldn't mess anything up.

I mean, if you were new to MK and didn't happen to read the files where Akako uses magic, you'd just see her as another, normal character (well, maybe not normal. In fact, probably weird )

Personally I wouldn't want Akako's magic to be 'rationalized' because...that was kind of her point: to use 'real' magic. Take away that magic...and she's kind of just a crueler, female Kaito.

Whatever the case, I'm sure her episode will be amazing~

[Katty008]

No, magic cannot exist in a series based on logic and realism.  Otherwise you'd have cases of "You're the culprit", "No I'm not, a wizard did it!"

As I see it, the magic Akako uses is not common knowledge in the least. I'd say her, her servant thing and Kaito are the only ones who know about it. Thus, even if it does exist, if no one is aware of it, its existence shouldn't mess anything up.

Which is why it works. If someone actually tried to blame it on a wizard, the detectives and police would think they're nuts and just ignore them. It's a teeny, tiny bit like Supernatural, where the FBI agent thinks the main characters are just really bizarre serial killers because he doesn't know about demons and such.

[Akonyl]

now if only we could get some two-part filler, maybe we'd get an interesting AO case for once

for once? You do remember the 3 part case that was better than at least half of what Gosho does nowadays right? I mean, I get that it was a miracle and will likely never happen again but still...

Honestly, we survived Chiba's first love, nothing is a problem anymore.

actually, I forgot all about the seance case when I typed that. In that case, we need more.

[GinRei]

As I see it, the magic Akako uses is not common knowledge in the least. I'd say her, her servant thing and Kaito are the only ones who know about it. Thus, even if it does exist, if no one is aware of it, its existence shouldn't mess anything up.

No, even its mere existence screws things up.  In fact, Heiji even had a line about how the supernatural cannot exist or else detectives would be of no use.

I mean, if you were new to MK and didn't happen to read the files where Akako uses magic, you'd just see her as another, normal character (well, maybe not normal. In fact, probably weird )

Hence why I want her magic to be logical, such as illusions, technology, and drugs.  It doesn't cause detriment to her character in any way.

[Suutashi]

But if "magic" of that sense does exist in Conan's universe, the entire thing comes unraveled. The entire series is based not just on it not existing in that universe but it being impossible for it to exist. The "unfortunate (?)" truth of the matter is that the two worlds will never be completely consolidated.

Simply put: Everybody has to forgive the sorcery in Magic Kaito and pretend, when Kid shows up in Conan, that Kid doesn't come from a universe where that's possible. As much as we'd all like it to be one cohesive universe, there is and always will be a clear dichotomy there until Gosho makes an effort to outright prove otherwise.

But see, that is exactly how it works. Conan solves complicated crimes through logic because to him, there is no such thing as magic. He knows that there has to be a way to do it because he knows that magic doesn't exist. But that is only what he knows. Magic could easily exist and he just doesn't know about it, therefore he dismisses the possibility out of hand allowing him to solve crime through logic.

No, magic cannot exist in a series based on logic and realism.  Otherwise you'd have cases of "You're the culprit", "No I'm not, a wizard did it!"

Did anyone else get reminded of Harry Potter?

[sonoci]

@suutashi: It does kind of sound like that xD

Anyway...

From the looks of things, Akako's 'real' magic is the problem here since DC has no room for such things. Normally the case would be that Akako is not in the DC world but because of all the crossovers/cameos KID has...well, actually the point is still the same, IMO

As of this point, only KID (mainly, Hakuba came a few times *as he's a detective*) has shown up in the DC manga (as for the anime, Gosho doesn't have any word in what specifically is produced *as far as I know* so I'm just going to look at the manga). Kudo Shinichi did show up in the MK universe once, and Akako even began to use magic, but she stopped. Nothing really stopped her other than her servant thing. Nevertheless, she started to use it, even with Shinichi there. The reason? "Kudo Shinichi did show up in the MK universe". He was in their manga, so he was playing by their rules.

I think what this boils down to is the 'crossover' rule: despite a character showing up in a different universe(/show/manga) this doesn't mean they take their world with them unless it's outright stated that their worlds/plots intertwine...which I think Gosho even said that the opposite of that was true. In other words, the argument stands tall and proud and undeniable...so long as it's regarded at Akako showing up in the DC universe. When it's aimed at Akako in the MK universe...it loses some of its pizazz, IMO. Akako was created before DC in the MK universe where she did in fact use 'real' magic. Having that change just because there've been many cases of KID in the DC world (not even Akako herself)...it seems cheap.

I do get and in fact agree that magic should never be in DC, but this is MK, not DC.

There's also something I forgot on that list before: there's Akako, her servant thing, Kaito and someone else very important. The audience. As I said, if we as the audience didn't see her magic, we probably wouldn't think any more of Akako. The same could be said for KID: if he didn't show up in DC, most probably wouldn't even know about him, even though Gosho made MK. Since KID doesn't hold any plot significance in DC and could simply not show up, I suppose my point is why a character's abilities from a non-important cameo character's world matters as much as it's being implied.

All of this reminds me of something my friend told me. She said, with the utmost confidence, that she'd held the hand of a ghost one time. Of course I respect her standpoint, but I personally don't believe it. Why? Because I don't believe in ghosts. However, she does, so it's easy for her to say something like that: because she believes it. The same logic is behind Heiji's line: even if magic existed, he'd still say what he did because he doesn't believe in it. Someone who doesn't believe in something isn't going to back it up. There's also the fact...that Heiji is from the DC universe, where logic reigns.

Well, in short I don't think either of us will change our views It's kind of our preferences too...I don't think the actual episode will be effected at all. Sorry for rambling 

[GinRei]

As of this point, only KID (mainly, Hakuba came a few times *as he's a detective*) has shown up in the DC manga (as for the anime, Gosho doesn't have any word in what specifically is produced *as far as I know* so I'm just going to look at the manga). Kudo Shinichi did show up in the MK universe once, and Akako even began to use magic, but she stopped. Nothing really stopped her other than her servant thing. Nevertheless, she started to use it, even with Shinichi there. The reason? "Kudo Shinichi did show up in the MK universe". He was in their manga, so he was playing by their rules.

I think what this boils down to is the 'crossover' rule: despite a character showing up in a different universe(/show/manga) this doesn't mean they take their world with them unless it's outright stated that their worlds/plots intertwine...which I think Gosho even said that the opposite of that was true. In other words, the argument stands tall and proud and undeniable...so long as it's regarded at Akako showing up in the DC universe. When it's aimed at Akako in the MK universe...it loses some of its pizazz, IMO. Akako was created before DC in the MK universe where she did in fact use 'real' magic. Having that change just because there've been many cases of KID in the DC world (not even Akako herself)...it seems cheap.

I do get and in fact agree that magic should never be in DC, but this is MK, not DC.

No, it's all the same in the anime.  That's why I specified anime, not manga.  Even then, the manga are beginning to cross over too, so a problem is beginning to form there too, but it's passable since as you said MK was made before Conan.  However, this is the anime.  Conan was here first this time.  They've already updated things to be "modern", so there's no reason why they can't change more.

Also, Akako has been in the Conan anime.  Episode 219.

[queenmisanagi]

I stopped rationalizing this too much when Conan appeared in the second MK. That effed up the timeline in DC/MK canon-wise.

Point, though: If they make Akako use technology and drugs as opposed to her 'real magic' then that would defeat the purpose of her character and in the manga she even has a line where she says something like 'your tricks aren't real magic' to Kaito because Akako believes that sorcery is true magic and magic tricks (what Kaito does) is just cheating. So yeah, I'm partial to them just following what happened in the manga.

[Katty008]

Obviously this is a preference thing, so I'm just going to say this: that Heiji quote illustrates my point exactly. The entire thing hinges on the detectives not knowing. Even if they were faced with Akako's magic, they would probably try to find a way to rationalize it because to them, that is the way the world works. It's like the idea of the weirdness censor hiding magic from the normal people, only the normal people are the main characters.

[sonoci]

No, it's all the same in the anime.  That's why I specified anime, not manga.  Even then, the manga are beginning to cross over too, so a problem is beginning to form there too, but it's passable since as you said MK was made before Conan.  However, this is the anime.  Conan was here first this time.  They've already updated things to be "modern", so there's no reason why they can't change more.

Also, Akako has been in the Conan anime.  Episode 219.

...and I specified manga because of Gosho's lack in participation in the anime. For instance Conan and friends' appearance in the MK episodes just couldn't happen: it was an Easter Egg from the animation staff.

I've been arguing for the manga's sake. 

As for updating to be "modern"...that almost seems as if you're saying magic existed in the "modern" days back in the 1980s-90s. Far as I'm concerned, 'real' magic has never existed in real life, but it did exist in MK.

I was aware of her appearance in 219, that's why I specified the manga. Specifically so for episode 219: since that was based on the MK chapter where Shinichi cameoed, not a DC case where Akako cameoed.

Also a thanks to queen misanagi: you've phrased exactly what I've been thinking

If they make Akako use technology and drugs as opposed to her 'real magic' then that would defeat the purpose of her character

I really wouldn't mind a character using drugs and technology...what I mind is Akako using drugs and technology. If she did...IMO she wouldn't be Akako anymore 

RM'd by Katty008 xD I agree with you, btw

[Jd-]

It's a teeny, tiny bit like Supernatural, where the FBI agent thinks the main characters are just really bizarre serial killers because he doesn't know about demons and such.

If we're gonna go that route, we can also introduce the X-Files, and what do those two have in common? They're science fiction. When Gosho says that Conan is meant to be science fiction or at the very least concede to fantasy elements instead of logic, I can agree that it's "possible" for magic to exist in Conan's world without it shaking up the entire foundation of the series.

The thing is, though, that it isn't. They disprove supernatural elements every time they're brought up given that this is a logic-based series. There is no ambiguity in Conan when it comes to cases involving the supernatural or the overtly magical.

EDIT:

Even if they were faced with Akako's magic, they would probably try to find a way to rationalize it because to them, that is the way the world works.

That's the way the Conan world works period, because it's based on the real world. These two universes will never be consolidated into one if Akako is able to do her sorcery, because that is completely, without question, at odds with the Conan universe. If magic is ever introduced to the Conan world, we have to re-examine every case from 1-620 and beyond and wonder just how many actually involved magic that Conan just didn't pick up on.

[GinRei]

As for updating to be "modern"...that almost seems as if you're saying magic existed in the "modern" days back in the 1980s-90s. Far as I'm concerned, 'real' magic has never existed in real life, but it did exist in MK.

I'm saying that technology and medicine wasn't as good 20-30 years ago as it is now.  Back then, it'd be hard to pass off that stuff as logical, but nowadays you could easily do so.

I really wouldn't mind a character using drugs and technology...what I mind is Akako using drugs and technology. If she did...IMO she wouldn't be Akako anymore 

So her entire character is based on her first appearance, and none of the others?  I always viewed her character as someone who always got everything she wanted, and when she was denied, she got angry and pissed off until she got charmed by Kaito's wit.  She then gave MK a love triangle, and that is her current character.  Really, you're the ones doing Akako an injustice by deeming her to be a witch and only a witch, with no other caveat to her character.

[sonoci]

Of course Akako isn't just a witch. I, in fact, completely love her character. However, 'real' magic is one of her main quirks, so taking that away for DC purposes seems unnecessary when it's an MK anime. I'd still love her if she used technology and stuff, I'd just be disappointed that they found it necessary to make her use technology.

I agree that DC is logical. I agree that the MK universe's 'magic' should never exist near DC. These are all things I get.

What I don't get is why MK has suddenly been ripped of its right to have 'real' magic. It isn't Detective Conan. It's Magic Kaitou. Magic Kaitou...it's even in the title. 

These two universes will never be consolidated into one if Akako is able to do her sorcery, because that is completely, without question, at odds with the Conan universe. If magic is ever introduced to the Conan world, we have to re-examine every case from 1-620 and beyond and wonder just how many actually involved magic that Conan just didn't pick up on.

I suppose another thing is this. In the manga world, MK existed before DC. They were very different and still are. In the anime world, DC existed before MK. They're very different. As awesome/confusing/etc it would be for the two worlds to have something to do with each other, I personally see it as almost a fact that they don't. In other words...Akako might as well not exist in the Conan world, as it should be.

The shortest way I can put this is that Magic Kaitou having to change its roots for the purpose of Detective Conan doesn't make sense to me. I'm sure people watching are aware that Magic Kaitou is a different show. I've delved in too much myself, but I guess the point is that Akako's magic really shouldn't matter as much as it is right now. If it happened upright in Detective Conan, then it'd be something big...and in Detective Conan I actually kind of would be irritated as well since it's logic based, but her magic was already used and confirmed in Magic Kaitou long, long ago.

So: magic in DC - bad, horrible, why would you do something like that, it ruins the foundations
magic in MK - it's...magic? Want crazy go look at Yaiba




Anyway this is kind of off topic. I'm not sure if I started it, but I didn't want this to snowball...especially considering the stem of it is almost definitely preferences. It's not quite worth all of these words 

We should agree to disagree and just enjoy the episode when it comes out 

[Wakarimashita]

What I don't get is why MK has suddenly been ripped of its right to have 'real' magic. It isn't Detective Conan. It's Magic Kaitou. Magic Kaitou...it's even in the title.

"Detective Conan Special: Secret of the Birth of Phantom Thief Kid"
"Detective Conan Special: Phantom Thief Kid's Summer Festival: Phantom Thief Kid's Busy Date"
"Detective Conan Special: Phantom Thief Kid's Summer Festival: The Magic the Princess-sama Loves"

As far as I'm concerned, despite the idiotic choices of the anime staff in some occasions and the fact that Kid appears in DC, I still consider both universes to be different since they don't follow the same rules and are not based on the sames mangas. Therefore, even if the MK specials are labeled 'Detective Conan', they're not numbered and are still based on MK which is independent from DC and can work with it's own rules.

[sonoci]

@Wakarimashita: Touche. You also make a good point for what I'm thinking. DC is DC and MK is MK.

From this point on, I think I'll just continue to quote one thing to avoid wasting more of my or anyone else's time.

In my eyes, taking away Akako's magic would be like taking away Shinichi's fandom for Holmes. It's still the same person, but one of their main quirks is missing

On topic, what's the guess on what'll air on September 17? As of right now it's unannounced. I suppose they could shorten a manga file, but I think an AO might be more likely.  :-\