Conan+Ayumi

[Conia]

Don't worry this thread wont last long I already planted my bombs.

Yeah, but their timers are unlimitated, just like AyuCon's love

[xGinx]

Don't worry this thread wont last long I already planted my bombs.

Yeah, but their timers are unlimitated, just like AyuCon's love

LOL .... what are u trying to do with that Conia? xD

[Conia]

Don't worry this thread wont last long I already planted my bombs.

Yeah, but their timers are unlimitated, just like AyuCon's love

LOL .... what are u trying to do with that Conia? xD

Trying to make Schillok's day happier

[Schillok]

Don't worry this thread wont last long I already planted my bombs.

Yeah, but their timers are unlimitated, just like AyuCon's love

LOL .... what are u trying to do with that Conia? xD

Trying to make Schillok's day happier

Aww, thanks a lot. My day has already be good so far, finally had the time to watch all the DC episodes that have accumulated since new year.  But of course seeing that more people come to understand the greatness, no the Greatness, of AyuCon is a welcome addition. 

BTW, the explosives are futile anyway. Conan has found them long ago and he and the DB disposed them in an elevator. Somewhere.  8)

I scent the off-topicness...
Yeah, I know I shouldn't be talking, but anyway, you're getting off-topic. But I welcome you to discuss that in the according thread...

Thank you. Yeah, this is a serious thread, no off-topicness allowed.

Spoiler:

::) Just kidding. But reduce it to a minimum though.

Well, at least I didn't miss much today after seeing the topic had grown for one page...

Shinichi would die for Ran.

He has already driven himself to near death for her.

Something like that doesn't go away easily...

He would do the same for Ayumi.

And to be fair, also for Mitsuhiko, Genta, Haibara and about every other member of the cast. Maybe not for Vermouth, but even for her he would endanger his own live if he thinks he could save her that way.

So this is nothing special to Ran. Though, putting that aside Ran is still his most precious, most beloved person. I have no illusions that DC will end with Shinichi x Ran, unless some major things happen.

Spoiler:

Ran is the BO boss? Shrinking Shinichi was just a test to see how much she means to him? And he failed?
Who would have thought that... 

tbh technically the chances are currently 0 until something comes up which shows Conan is a 'tiny' bit into Ayumi.

Come on, she is a little girl. Of course Conan can't show that he is into her, even if he wanted. If he were interested in her at the moment...

As said countless times before: Ayumi x Conan is not impossible, chances are not 0. But some things would need to happen in favor of that pairing since in the current situation. Well... and the major thing that would need to happen is that Shinichi and/or Ran stop considering each other as their (only) romantic interest any longer. Which would be necessary for any pairing involving only one of them... 

same with Aicon too,  but in our own personal view, the chances are a bit above 0

Either you say chances are 0 for both Ayumi and Ai since Conan "never showed a tiny bit of interest" in both of them, or you acknowledge that BOTH have a (tiny) chance.
And from my own personal view AiCon is even more unlikely than AyuCon. But I guess that depends on how you weight the arguments which support (or oppose) the pairings.

when i say personal view, i mean theoretically the chances are a bit above 0, same with AyuCon

but technically, as in all the evidence that has been displayed in the manga so far, both shippings has 0 chance of happening as it is.

kind of like the chances of a piano falling on top of me right now, the evidence of my surrounding proves that there is 0 chance of happening,
but theoretically, going to the extremes of probability, there is an above 0 chance of this happening.

what's the point of saying this? just wanted to mention that there is a small chance of this happening in the future, but current evidence shows that it isn't going to happen.

I know. As things are now it won't end as Haibara/Shiho x Conan/Shinichi nor as Conan x Ayumi.
At least.. it is very unlikely.

About the piano example - it is a bit of, since we are not talking about any of these pairings right now, but somewhere in the future.
So the correct example would be: "Like the chance of [you] being killed by a piano any time in the future".
Chances are, your course of death won't be a piano (And I certainly hope so...). But... you can't be completely sure.

Spoiler:

When things get too close, don't be scared push away and run to ask for an adult.-Child Safety Group

Conan didn't seem to mind catching Ayumi. Neither did Ayumi being hold by him. So... it's a happy end, right? 

Either you say chances are 0 for both Ayumi and Ai since Conan "never showed a tiny bit of interest" in both of them, or you acknowledge that BOTH have a (tiny) chance.
And from my own personal view AiCon is even more unlikely than AyuCon. But I guess that depends on how you weight the arguments which support (or oppose) the pairings.

Using the personal view/opinion shield works wonders..unless you are trying to use it to defend against the evidence sword. .

But the only evidence would be if DC ended and it was shown that Conan/Shinichi ended up with another girl and "they lived happly ever after". Or the word of god Gosho.

As for the first comment, no not really. Conan is aware of Ayumi's feelings and treats them accordingly(child love). Conan has been made aware of the possibility that Ai might have feelings for him and is hesitant to even acknowledge the possibility, Ayumi's chances does not equal Ai's chances as they both have a set of different variables with "Shinichi no longer loves Ran" being the common....but in that case why would Conan love Ayumi if she's so similar like you claim? .

He is not hesitant to "acknowledge the possibility", he outright excluded it entirely. So right now he is not interested in either of them. I don't see how Haibaras chances are better than Ayumis, who at least showed her affections and made Conan notice them.
Haibara... as you know, it is still open if she has any (romantic) feelings for Conan in the first place. Though I don't deny that it might change in the future.

As for why Conan would chose Ayumi after he gave up on Ran: Because she is so similar to Ran.
If he has to give up Ran it would be to reasons out of his control. But since she was his first love it is evident that he liked her traits, her character and so on. That is why he might fall in love with Ayumi then, who possesses similar traits as her.

[Umandsf]

I hate this thread. I come back after a little hiatus, and I'm distracted in class by various thoughts concerning this topic (no, I will not share them, or it'll never end). Curse you all!

[Callid]

But the only evidence would be if DC ended and it was shown that Conan/Shinichi ended up with another girl and "they lived happly ever after". Or the word of god Gosho.

You're mean, you know. Giving a TV Tropes link without warning. Now they are bound to have a Wiki Walk for the next few hours, possibly forgetting important stuff and reducing the activity in here!
Really, such dangerous links must be labelled!

[kkslider5552000]

reading the Conan page on there was an unusually fun way to spend an hour

[Callid]

reading the Conan page on there was an unusually fun way to spend an hour

I didn't say it is boring - it's only time-killing.

[TheBlind]

Conan didn't seem to mind catching Ayumi. Neither did Ayumi being hold by him. So... it's a happy end, right? 

Says you. You can clearly see the fear in Conan's eyes as she lunged towards him with her perverted intentions. Luckily Conan is magic, so he stopped her in her tracks and kept his compusure..among other things. .

But the only evidence would be if DC ended and it was shown that Conan/Shinichi ended up with another girl and "they lived happly ever after".

Yeah, lets ignore all the good points everyone has submitted to this claim that disproves it, .
There's only one thing left to do here............Can you prove it?
Can you prove that Ayumi's chances are equal to Ai's chances?
I don't think you can. Though you always resort to this fail safe when things aren't going well, you have yet to prove or even present interpretive evidence to back it up. Everyone that has felt like it, has already submitted a piece that shows Ai's chances are higher but you disagree and say" No it's either neither or both"(why?). So that means you must have proof that they both equal the same.

He is not hesitant to "acknowledge the possibility", he outright excluded it entirely. So right now he is not interested in either of them. I don't see how Haibaras chances are better than Ayumis, who at least showed her affections and made Conan notice them.

This is because you don't want to, really. You try to find a different convoluted explanation to every Ai moment presented to you, try to find some cryptic meaning to every conversation that alludes to Ai's feelings for Conan and when none of that works, you go kamikaze just to avoid acknowledging it, . This statement is a perfect example as again you claim Conan excluded the possibility entirely but then why did he feel the need to approach her about it alone(the demons were at rest) and evaded his true question at the last second?
You actually believe Conan wanted to know in seriousness if there was something on his face?

Haibara... as you know, it is still open if she has any (romantic) feelings for Conan in the first place. Though I don't deny that it might change in the future.

Again, can't really help here. There are quite a few scenes that show she has interest in him. She already was interested in Shinichi before meeting him on a research level and it has been progressing since then. She has asked him if he's going to keep his promise to protect her, she has shown interest in his happiness, she has acknowledged the similarities they share as well as the predicament they are in, and finally, she has shared certain details only to Conan(vice versa). During her introduction, Shiho broke into tears on Conan's chest which lead Conan to state that this was probably the first true face she showed him...I think it was the first true face and the most vunelrable face she showed to someone that wasn't her sister. Why would Gosho(not god, I have claimed Eisuke to be the god of the DC universe....become loyal to him or perish!...his words not mine) script it like that if this just isn't a a big puzzle? He could of easily had her cry on Agasa, turn away to cry, or just react with anger but he didn't. Like all AixConan moments, they are subtle and have a deeper meaning to them if you ask me..each one another pieces to a big puzzle.

As for why Conan would chose Ayumi after he gave up on Ran: Because she is so similar to Ran.
If he has to give up Ran it would be to reasons out of his control. But since she was his first love it is evident that he liked her traits, her character and so on. That is why he might fall in love with Ayumi then, who possesses similar traits as her.

DC has established that Conan rarely gives up and when he loses control, he tries anything to get it back. So like I said in the other thread, Shinichi/Conan would never give up on Ran to fall for a similar girl, if he wants Ran he will do anything,"Even if I die, I'll come back to you", to get back to her. It would only be a situation where Ran is no longer there for him to go back to and that just complicates things as he could easily shun anything similar to Ran because it is not Ran. Which places sexy eyes in the magic spot...Gosho you sly fox...cough...so yeah, I still don't see how Ayumi being similar to Ran is a strength. I still say it's a weakness.
I can already tell you are just crazy with joy that I escaped the 38th dimension, Schillok  .

[Schillok]

I hate this thread. I come back after a little hiatus, and I'm distracted in class by various thoughts concerning this topic (no, I will not share them, or it'll never end). Curse you all!

Well, you will have time at some point to tell everyone your thoughts. If you want. I hope this thread will still be here then.  ;D

But the only evidence would be if DC ended and it was shown that Conan/Shinichi ended up with another girl and "they lived happly ever after". Or the word of [s]god[/s] Gosho.

You're mean, you know. Giving a TV Tropes link without warning. Now they are bound to have a Wiki Walk for the next few hours, possibly forgetting important stuff and reducing the activity in here!
Really, such dangerous links must be labelled!

Jup, I spent hours there already... so addicting....  ::)

But the only evidence would be if DC ended and it was shown that Conan/Shinichi ended up with another girl and "they lived happly ever after".

Yeah, lets ignore all the good points everyone has submitted to this claim that disproves it, .
There's only one thing left to do here............Can you prove it?
Can you prove that Ayumi's chances are equal to Ai's chances?
I don't think you can. Though you always resort to this fail safe when things aren't going well, you have yet to prove or even present interpretive evidence to back it up. Everyone that has felt like it, has already submitted a piece that shows Ai's chances are higher but you disagree and say" No it's either neither or both"(why?). So that means you must have proof that they both equal the same.

Of course I have no proof. Neither that their chances are truly equal, nor that one of them has a higher chance. As I said before (I can finally quote myself):

I guess that depends on how you weight the arguments which support (or oppose) the pairings.

There are arguments that might support one pairing, and some that might oppose it. For example the "psychical age difference" which you think matters a lot and which I think isn't that important. Or the similarity in values and ideals between Ayumi and Conan which you (Was it you? Or some other people?) claim would change when Ayumi grows up while I think they would stay constant. It is those different interpretations that make finding a definite, unbiased, objective truth and proof impossible.    

You think she is in love with him and would confess her feelings when she thinks she has a chance.
I think she is not in love with him and even if she felt in love with him later she would hold back for the sake of Ayumi.

He is not hesitant to "acknowledge the possibility", he outright excluded it entirely. So right now he is not interested in either of them. I don't see how Haibaras chances are better than Ayumis, who at least showed her affections and made Conan notice them.

This is because you don't want to, really. You try to find a different convoluted explanation to every Ai moment presented to you, try to find some cryptic meaning to every conversation that alludes to Ai's feelings for Conan and when none of that works, you go kamikaze just to avoid acknowledging it, . This statement is a perfect example as again you claim Conan excluded the possibility entirely but then why did he feel the need to approach her about it alone(the demons were at rest) and evaded his true question at the last second?
You actually believe Conan wanted to know in seriousness if there was something on his face?

Then why did he ask the question in the first place if he knew that there was nothing on his face? The answer is obviously (at least to me): Since he excluded already that she might be in love with him that was the only thing remaining.
If it means something else like you claim: Why didn't he change his behavior towards Haibara? If it were serious, then there would have been a change.

That is if Yukiko said the truth and Haibara really looked at Conan 10 times during that time. As mentioned before, most of the time Yukiko was either driving in a rather reckless driving style or had had her attention on other things, not Haibara.
And I still think she would not be able to evaluate Haibara within the 1 hour they spent together anyway. Neither the DB, nor Conan, nor Agasa noticed anything despite being with her for months but that woman who loves nothing more than teasing her son shows up and reads her instantly?

You know the conclusion: It was purely meant as a joke, not to "hint" anything. It is you who adds cryptic things into Haibaras conversations to strengthen your claim of her romantic feelings for Conan - which she never showed, talked or thought about.

Haibara... as you know, it is still open if she has any (romantic) feelings for Conan in the first place. Though I don't deny that it might change in the future.

Again, can't really help here. There are quite a few scenes that show she has interest in him. She already was interested in Shinichi before meeting him on a research level and it has been progressing since then.

I won't argue here. He is an interesting research object. A rare occurance that contradicts the expected results of being subjected to APTX4869. But that is not love.

She has asked him if he's going to keep his promise to protect her, she has shown interest in his happiness, she has acknowledged the similarities they share as well as the predicament they are in, and finally, she has shared certain details only to Conan(vice versa).

At the same time she is also holding certain details back. First she went to him - or rather his house - because it was the only place she could think of when she was shrunk and escaping from the organization. The she stayed at the professors house and after getting accustomed to her new life and meeting people she cares for (Agasa, Detective Boys, Conan) she decided to stay. Conan only convinced her not to run away from that new life she created for herself out of fear.
About her interest for his happiness: Does it go beyond a point of what she feels responsible for by developing the APTX4869 that shrunk him? Something she wouldn't do for her other friends as well? I remember nothing.

During her introduction, Shiho broke into tears on Conan's chest which lead Conan to state that this was probably the first true face she showed him...I think it was the first true face and the most vunelrable face she showed to someone that wasn't her sister. Why would Gosho(not god, I have claimed Eisuke to be the god of the DC universe....become loyal to him or perish!...his words not mine) script it like that if this just isn't a a big puzzle? He could of easily had her cry on Agasa, turn away to cry, or just react with anger but he didn't. Like all AixConan moments, they are subtle and have a deeper meaning to them if you ask me..each one another pieces to a big puzzle.

To show her deep connection with her sister? To emphasize she was the most important think - probably the only important thing - in her previous life. To show she is human? To make a deeper impact while connecting her to a previous case? To show that she doesn't believe that even the most brilliant mind in solving crimes is useless if it can not save an important person?
Gosho could have countless reasons. To hint for a possible "romantic attraction of Haibara towards Conan revealed much later (if ever)" does not seem likely to me.

She only knew Conan for 1 day at that point. Do you think she was in love with her at that time already?

As for why Conan would chose Ayumi after he gave up on Ran: Because she is so similar to Ran.
If he has to give up Ran it would be to reasons out of his control. But since she was his first love it is evident that he liked her traits, her character and so on. That is why he might fall in love with Ayumi then, who possesses similar traits as her.

DC has established that Conan rarely gives up and when he loses control, he tries anything to get it back. So like I said in the other thread, Shinichi/Conan would never give up on Ran to fall for a similar girl, if he wants Ran he will do anything,"Even if I die, I'll come back to you", to get back to her. It would only be a situation where Ran is no longer there for him to go back to and that just complicates things as he could easily shun anything similar to Ran because it is not Ran. Which places sexy eyes in the magic spot...Gosho you sly fox...cough...so yeah, I still don't see how Ayumi being similar to Ran is a strength. I still say it's a weakness.

If you call it a weakness it would be because you weight it differently than me. I say it is one of her biggest strengths. People prefer certain attributes/traits/characteristics, they influence if we fall in love with a person or not. When Shinichi can't be together with Ran anymore he will go for a girl with similar traits. Which would be Ayumi.

But you are right, chances that Conan/Shinichi will give up on Ran are low, he is not ready to give her up. At least not yet. The nice thing on Conan x Ayumi is that they need a few years to mature anyway (Ayumi more than Conan), but these few years would be exactly what could weaken the Shinichi x Ran relationship enough to make one of them - or both Shinichi and Ran in mutual agreement - decide that it would be best to go separate ways. When he searches for a new love he would (unconsciously or consciously) search for a girl similar to Ran.

Beside, shouldn't Conan shun anything that was responsible for losing Ran instead of people who are like her?
I mean a certain organization. And their Ex-Member who will always remind him that he was shrunk because she worked on that poison that did it to him?

Spoiler:

I don't blame Haibara for it. And Conan probably realized it as well that it is better than being dead by a working poison (or a bullet in his head because Gin had no other way to get rid of him) and that Haibara is not really the cause of his misery. She is blaming herself enough anyway.
Well, maybe he will thank her later when he is happily married with Ayumi who he would not have gotten to know otherwise...  ::)

I can already tell you are just crazy with joy that I escaped the 38th dimension, Schillok  ;D.

Uhh... yeah, a bit.  ;D
Finally a long, drawn-out discussion. Pairings are serious business.  

Finally a real wall of text. It was fun.  

[TheBlind]

Of course I have no proof. Neither that their chances are truly equal, nor that one of them has a higher chance.

You are correct and incorrect. You are right when you say that there is no proof to state "their chances are equal" but are incorrect when you say "there is also no proof that one has a higher chance".

• Conan and Ai have a higher compatibility(interest & mindset)
• Ai isn't a child mentally(Conan has acknowledge Ayumi to be a child which one could assume influences is view of her affection
• Conan and Ai have cross dressed..crucial to any good couple.
• Shinichi is more open with Shiho than any character in the series outside of Agasa

There I just introduced three simple pieces of evidence that support if Shinichi stops loving Ran, there is a higher chance of him ending up with Ai/Shiho. It's similar to how Ran has proven facts that state why her chances would be higher than Ai/Shiho's, even if it was unclear whether Shinichi loved Ran.

I know I said this before in the other thread but sadly Ayumi doesn't have anything like the sort. All she has are "what ifs" that have little weight against proven events and dialogue. So you can't kamikaze your Ayumi against Ai when people point this out. .

There are arguments that might support one pairing, and some that might oppose it. For example the "psychical age difference" which you think matters a lot and which I think isn't that important. Or the similarity in values and ideals between Ayumi and Conan which you (Was it you? Or some other people?) claim would change when Ayumi grows up while I think they would stay constant. It is those different interpretations that make finding a definite, unbiased, objective truth and proof impossible.    

It's not impossible. It's only impossible to you because you are maneuvering in the realm of opinions when you talk about Ayumi + Conan. The Ran fans and Ai fans don't have to resort to such because there is plenty of evidence in the canon to create arguments that can easily be proven.
The only "what ifs" the Ran and Ai(abs. catch this) have are two that are linked.
1) Will Shinichi return/Will Conan stay
2)Will Ai confess to Conan-Will Conan confess to Ai/ Will Ran confess to Shinichi-Will Shinichi confess to Ran

I really don't want to sound like a bully here but I have to when I say the following: The logic you are using for Ayumi is such a general and opinion based logic that even Genta could be made to end up with Sonoko with it. I just can't see the solid evidence you are using to claim Ayumi+Conan in the same group as Ai+Conan aka"either they both have a chance or neither has a chance".

I think she is not in love with him and even if she felt in love with him later she would hold back for the sake of Ayumi.

See, this here, is a double standard with denial mixed in. You go all out with the "what ifs" for Ayumi and read more into what is suppose to be taken at face value then turn around to shun Ai scenes and claim that people are just reading too much into them.
The denial is Ai holding back for Ayumi. If you believe Ai to have no feelings for Conan, then why would this even be a possibility?
But to answer your what if counter:
No, I really don't see it that way because Ai herself acknowledges Ayumi's affection to be a crush. So I don't see how this would keep her from confessing to Conan(given that he no longer loves Ran).

To answer your what if counter with a what if:
What states that Ai & Conan have to keep the DBs in the loop about details of their personal life. They already do a good job of keeping them out of their Shiho/Shinichi life, so I don't see why it would be a problem. They could easily keep their relationship a secret all the way until High School(hopefully...they'll practice abstinence until then but you never know with Ai  ) and if Ayumi's affection was a crush it would be resolved by then. If not, then Conan or Ai would just have to talk to her and hopefully she will not be a vindictive person.

See the problem with What Ifs, just a lot of talking with no one getting anywhere(every what if can be countered with a what if). .

That is if Yukiko said the truth and Haibara really looked at Conan 10 times during that time. As mentioned before, most of the time Yukiko was either driving in a rather reckless driving style or had had her attention on other things, not Haibara.
And I still think she would not be able to evaluate Haibara within the 1 hour they spent together anyway. Neither the DB, nor Conan, nor Agasa noticed anything despite being with her for months but that woman who loves nothing more than teasing her son shows up and reads her instantly?

You know the conclusion: It was purely meant as a joke, not to "hint" anything. It is you who adds cryptic things into Haibaras conversations to strengthen your claim of her romantic feelings for Conan - which she never showed, talked or thought about.

I admire the lengths you go to dis-acknowledge an easier and more fitting explanation but that still doesn't answer my question. Why did Conan wait until he was alone with Ai(demons asleep) to confront her on the subject and then avoid it at the last moment?

Because if it was a joke, Gosho could of had the DBs awake to add to the joke(Genta:What are you talking Conan there's no food on your face?!) or left it to the post case segment, the place he usually uses his jokes.

At the same time she is also holding certain details back.

I don't see the relevance here. We know she's holding things back because she stated it herself, it's part of the canon and Conan also knows this because she directly told him.

First she went to him - or rather his house - because it was the only place she could think of when she was shrunk and escaping from the organization. The she stayed at the professors house and after getting accustomed to her new life and meeting people she cares for (Agasa, Detective Boys, Conan) she decided to stay. Conan only convinced her not to run away from that new life she created for herself out of fear.

This here confuses me. You just restated the canon in your first two sentences and the last was..I don't know, . "Her life of fear"?
Are you saying Ai is a coward because she hid from an organization of killers and that Conan talked her into continuing to live her life of cowardliness just because?
..not following

About her interest for his happiness: Does it go beyond a point of what she feels responsible for by developing the APTX4869 that shrunk him? Something she wouldn't do for her other friends as well? I remember nothing.

I actually never brought up Ai's interest for Conan's happiness but since we are already here:
Shiho has never felt responsible for Conan's predicament in relation to his shrinking because Conan has never blamed her for it. When Conan heard Ai's story, he blamed her for the murders committed by the APTX4869(something he has apologized for) and wanted to know where the lab was to stop development of the drug. Not once did he make Shiho feel guilty about his predicament then or now because she had no influence on him deciding to following Gin at the park that day. 

So Shiho's work on the APTX4869 isn't based on guilt because she would of caved in to the many times Conan has asked her for a proto-type pill if that was the case or Conan would try to use guilt as leverage. It could be she's developing the antidote for what she said she was, to get their normal bodies back while using Conan as the test subject, could be. .
But I don't see how ANY of this is relevant unless you are claiming Ai is only working on the antidote because she loves Conan....no, just no. .

To show her deep connection with her sister? To emphasize she was the most important think - probably the only important thing - in her previous life. To show she is human? To make a deeper impact while connecting her to a previous case? To show that she doesn't believe that even the most brilliant mind in solving crimes is useless if it can not save an important person?

....None of your questions actually answers mine: Why did Gosho have her cry on Conan's chest?

Gosho could have countless reasons. To hint for a possible "romantic attraction of Haibara towards Conan revealed much later (if ever)" does not seem likely to me.

Where those questions suppose to be your "countless reasons"?
Because all of those could of been accomplished by having cry somewhere else instead of on Conan's chest...like I said in my original reply.

She only knew Conan for 1 day at that point. Do you think she was in love with her at that time already?

, Did you read my reply or skim it?
I said it could be a piece of a bigger puzzle..writers tend to do a little something called foreshadowing, it's a neat trick. But to answer the obvious, no.

If you call it a weakness it would be because you weight it differently than me. I say it is one of her biggest strengths. People prefer certain attributes/traits/characteristics, they influence if we fall in love with a person or not. When Shinichi can't be together with Ran anymore he will go for a girl with similar traits. Which would be Ayumi.

You already said this. Let's not go in circles. This is something you cannot hide behind the "opinion shield".
It's in the canon that if Shinichi wants to be with Ran he would even die to accomplish it(I know it doesn't make sense but they are his words  ). You have yet to provide a scenario that turns Ayumi's similarities into an actual strength, you just claim it's a strength.

But you are right, chances that Conan/Shinichi will give up on Ran are low, he is not ready to give her up. At least not yet. The nice thing on Conan x Ayumi is that they need a few years to mature anyway (Ayumi more than Conan), but these few years would be exactly what could weaken the Shinichi x Ran relationship enough to make one of them - or both Shinichi and Ran in mutual agreement - decide that it would be best to go separate ways. When he searches for a new love he would (unconsciously or consciously) search for a girl similar to Ran.

What if gets countered with a what if:
What if Conan decides to take Yusaku's offer and go overseas with him and invites Ai to help him in his B.O. investigation. A more passive investigation that would have them just solving interpol cases like superstars while biding their time to catch the B.O. at their weakest.

Serious:
I don't think that what if would be possible. If Shinichi left Ran in a mutual agreement it would mean he no longer loves her which means he would not find a copy of her as his partner. So the agreement is either not mutual(which just allows the "Shinichi would do ANYTHING to be with Ran if he still loved her" fact to be slipped in here) or Ayumi's weakness removes her from candidacy.

Beside, shouldn't Conan shun anything that was responsible for losing Ran instead of people who are like her?

You are assuming Ran has to die and it must be at the hands of the Black Organization for her no longer to be there for Shinichi to return to. There are many scenarios that fulfill "Ran no longer being there" while her still being alive and thus contain Conan shunning anything related and/or similar to her. But let's go with your thing, if the B.O. did kill Ran, why would he shun them?
In your attempt to try another kamikaze attack you overlooked that the canon already showed that Shinichi would attack the B.O. with more force if they hurt someone he cared about. Not to mention Akai is the perfect example of what Shinichi would become if they took Ran from him.
....Besides, Ai isn't B.O. anymore...so why? . This one was a real stretch. 

[Callid]

...

You know that your text walls are scaring people away, do you?
I think I'd prefer a triple-post 

[Schillok]

You are correct and incorrect. You are right when you say that there is no proof to state "their chances are equal" but are incorrect when you say "there is also no proof that one has a higher chance".

• Conan and Ai have a higher compatibility(interest & mindset)
• Ai isn't a child mentally(Conan has acknowledge Ayumi to be a child which one could assume influences is view of her affection
• Conan and Ai have cross dressed..crucial to any good couple.
• Shinichi is more open with Shiho than any character in the series outside of Agasa

• Conan and Ayumi have a higher compatibility(interests & ideals)

We had this already. Ayumi shares more interests with Conan than Haibara or Ran does. Both Ayumi and Ai share the interest for football (soccer), but only Ayumi is interested in working as/playing detectives and solving cases. This is clearly an advantage for Ayumi.
The with the ideals - Ayumi is like Conan who would try to help everyone. Ai would only help people she knows and likes.

• [s]Ai isn't a child mentally(Conan has acknowledge Ayumi to be a child which one could assume influences is view of her affection[/s]

Ayumi won't stay a child forever. She will grow up and Conan will have to accept that her feelings for him are genuine. (If her feelings remain, but why shouldn't they?)

• Conan and Ayumi have cross dressed..crucial to any good couple.

I guess it was just a joke anyway, but just like Conan and Ai so did Ayumi and Conan crossdress before when saving Two-Mix from the Kidnappers. Actually even more extreme than Conan and Ai, who at least took fresh clothes for their crossdressing.
Ayumi and Conan on the other hand were exchanging the clothes they were wearing at that time.

• Shinichi is more open with Shiho than any character in the series outside of Agasa

She is just one of the few persons out there he can talk with about his double-identity. Of course he can't talk about that with anyone else. There isn't anything he would discuss with her that he would not also discuss with Heiji or Agasa.
This is no sign of romance.
Though, I admitted before it is an advantage for Haibara that he knows about both identities. An advantage that would dissipate over time anyway if Conan remains a child and gives up his dual-identity.

On the other hand despite being so "close" to her he also keeps secrets from him. He had never explained to her why he let Okina live next door. He drugged her and locked her in a cellar to chase after Vermouth before. He keeps information he gathers hidden from her.
This shows that just like for Ayumi there are things that he can't confine her in.

There I just introduced three simple pieces of evidence that support if Shinichi stops loving Ran, there is a higher chance of him ending up with Ai/Shiho. It's similar to how Ran has proven facts that state why her chances would be higher than Ai/Shiho's, even if it was unclear whether Shinichi loved Ran.

I know I said this before in the other thread but sadly Ayumi doesn't have anything like the sort. All she has are "what ifs" that have little weight against proven events and dialogue. So you can't kamikaze your Ayumi against Ai when people point this out. .

I didn't kamikaze anything. I have solid reasons (same interests and ideals, similar to Ran, etc) to believe that Ayumi has great chances to win Conan if he gives up on Ran in a few years. Ayumis interest in Conan is confirmed by the canon. Ais/Shihos in Conan/Shinichi not.

It's not impossible. It's only impossible to you because you are maneuvering in the realm of opinions when you talk about Ayumi + Conan. The Ran fans and Ai fans don't have to resort to such because there is plenty of evidence in the canon to create arguments that can easily be proven.

Wait, what? Evidence for Ai x Conan? Stop here for a moment!
Even if you claim you could prove Ais romantic interest in Conan - which I wouldn't have to do for Ayumi since it is already canon - there is nothing that shows that Conan would return those feelings yet. It is the same for Ayumi x Conan - you just specuilate he would, you might have arguments why he would deceide for Ai, but you couldn't prove it. Don't try to put ConAi on the same level as ShinRan and AyuCon on a lower level at the same time.

The only "what ifs" the Ran and Ai(abs. catch this) have are two that are linked.
1) Will Shinichi return/Will Conan stay
2)Will Ai confess to Conan-Will Conan confess to Ai/ Will Ran confess to Shinichi-Will Shinichi confess to Ran

I don't see how this is different from 1) Will Conan stay? and 2) Will Conan confess to Ayumi?
If you want to put it in such an easy way every couple could be answered by these two questions.

I really don't want to sound like a bully here but I have to when I say the following: The logic you are using for Ayumi is such a general and opinion based logic that even Genta could be made to end up with Sonoko with it. I just can't see the solid evidence you are using to claim Ayumi+Conan in the same group as Ai+Conan aka"either they both have a chance or neither has a chance".

Is there anything wrong to make Genta end up with Sonoko?  ::) In the real of fanfiction nothing is impossible.
When talking about couples it is always opinion based. You decided to like AiCon best because of your opinion.
I already presented a lot of evidence that shows why Ayumi x Conan is at least equal to Ai x Conan. Same interests, same ideals, similarity to Ran, not restricting him, not responsible to the shrunken state, not being forced to be around him constantly. If you don't want to listen to them than be it so - but don't claim I presented nothing.

I think she is not in love with him and even if she felt in love with him later she would hold back for the sake of Ayumi.

See, this here, is a double standard with denial mixed in. You go all out with the "what ifs" for Ayumi and read more into what is suppose to be taken at face value then turn around to shun Ai scenes and claim that people are just reading too much into them.
The denial is Ai holding back for Ayumi. If you believe Ai to have no feelings for Conan, then why would this even be a possibility?

She is not holding back for the sake of Ayumi at the moment because she HAS NO ROMANTIC FEELINGS for Conan. But even if she developed them later, I think she would hold back for the sake of her best friend Ayumi.
Of course that would be no absolute restriction, she might decide to try her luck with Conan anyway if the feelings get to strong. But it is an additional obstacle that obstructs Ai x Conan.

To answer your what if counter with a what if:
What states that Ai & Conan have to keep the DBs in the loop about details of their personal life. They already do a good job of keeping them out of their Shiho/Shinichi life, so I don't see why it would be a problem. They could easily keep their relationship a secret all the way until High School(hopefully...they'll practice abstinence until then but you never know with Ai  ;D) and if Ayumi's affection was a crush it would be resolved by then. If not, then Conan or Ai would just have to talk to her and hopefully she will not be a vindictive person.

And you don't want to claim that they already are in that relationship and Gosho is keeping it a secret to surprise everyone in the end?  ::)

Seriously, that scenario you gave is not impossible given the right turn of events. (Like: Conan giving up on Ran; Ai falling in love with Conan and vice-versa; A confession from one of them, the acceptance from the other and then both deciding to do it that way.)
Still, if Ayumi stays in love with Conan it would break her hearth and both of them know it.  

See the problem with What Ifs, just a lot of talking with no one getting anywhere(every what if can be countered with a what if). .

But this is how our pairings work. Unless one of them turns reality which I don't really think.

That is if Yukiko said the truth and Haibara really looked at Conan 10 times during that time. As mentioned before, most of the time Yukiko was either driving in a rather reckless driving style or had had her attention on other things, not Haibara.
And I still think she would not be able to evaluate Haibara within the 1 hour they spent together anyway. Neither the DB, nor Conan, nor Agasa noticed anything despite being with her for months but that woman who loves nothing more than teasing her son shows up and reads her instantly?

You know the conclusion: It was purely meant as a joke, not to "hint" anything. It is you who adds cryptic things into Haibaras conversations to strengthen your claim of her romantic feelings for Conan - which she never showed, talked or thought about.

I admire the lengths you go to dis-acknowledge an easier and more fitting explanation but that still doesn't answer my question. Why did Conan wait until he was alone with Ai(demons asleep) to confront her on the subject and then avoid it at the last moment?

Because if it was a joke, Gosho could of had the DBs awake to add to the joke(Genta:What are you talking Conan there's no food on your face?!) or left it to the post case segment, the place he usually uses his jokes.

Because Gentas comment wouldn't add anything to the joke. Haibaras annoyed face ("How dare he keep me awake with such a stupid question") was a great finisher, don't you think?

Beside, he didn't wait until the others were asleep to ask Haibara afterwards. If you recall he was kept awake by the DB talking and didn't know if Haibara was awake as well. He was not waiting for it, it was merely a good opportunity for a stupid question. He could have asked it at any other time as well.
And as I said: Why didn't he change his behavior at all towards Haibara afterwards if he really believed that his mother was not talking nonsense? The "post-case segment" showed exactly that: The DB in the cinema, watching the movie, nothing having changed at all. If Yukikos statement would have had any deeper meaning but being a joke it would have been shown there.

My explanation is not "harder" than yours. Yours just ignores what kind of character Yukiko is, she is impish and not to be taken seriously, especially when she is talking with her beloved "Shin-chan".
If you were to show why your version is correct you would have to go through the same loops as I had for mine: Showing WHY and HOW she would be able to find out these "feelings hidden deep inside Haibara for her son that no other character but her is able to see".

At the same time she is also holding certain details back.

I don't see the relevance here. We know she's holding things back because she stated it herself, it's part of the canon and Conan also knows this because she directly told him.

The relevance is that just like towards Ran and Ayumi there are certain things that he doesn't reveal to Haibara. Like for the other two girls he has good reasons not to do so, but it shows that Haibara is nothing special.

First she went to him - or rather his house - because it was the only place she could think of when she was shrunk and escaping from the organization. The she stayed at the professors house and after getting accustomed to her new life and meeting people she cares for (Agasa, Detective Boys, Conan) she decided to stay. Conan only convinced her not to run away from that new life she created for herself out of fear.

This here confuses me. You just restated the canon in your first two sentences and the last was..I don't know, . "Her life of fear"?
Are you saying Ai is a coward because she hid from an organization of killers and that Conan talked her into continuing to live her life of cowardliness just because?
..not following

Err, no what I wanted to say is that Conan is trying to convince her not to run away from this new life she created for herself. The reason why she would run away is "out of fear" from the dangers to the persons close to her, even if running away would reduce the dangers to those people from the BO.

But I don't see how ANY of this is relevant unless you are claiming Ai is only working on the antidote because she loves Conan....no, just no. .

Well, I think her motivation is to right the wrong "her" drug has caused to Conan. I think she feels guilty for his state, it is that guilt that motivates her to create the antidote.
As it was discussed a few times before (and what shouldn't have to be discussed again) her own state is quite convinient for her: It is the perfect disguise and she finally has a "normal" live with real friends. She wouldn't have to design an antidote purely for herself.

To show her deep connection with her sister? To emphasize she was the most important think - probably the only important thing - in her previous life. To show she is human? To make a deeper impact while connecting her to a previous case? To show that she doesn't believe that even the most brilliant mind in solving crimes is useless if it can not save an important person?

....None of your questions actually answers mine: Why did Gosho have her cry on Conan's chest?

Because it has a deeper impact on the reader. "Ice queen" Ai loosing her composure completely means she must have REALLY cared about her sister.
Now answer mine: Do you think she was in love with him already during that case?

[Schillok]

...

You know that your text walls are scaring people away, do you?
I think I'd prefer a triple-post 

So I split my reply into two parts, just for you. Better? 
Though, for the "normal people" in this thread I guess it would be a good idea to write some post again that do not contain more than 10 lines of text.  Can't have this thread turn into a discussion between just 2 people, can we?

Gosho could have countless reasons. To hint for a possible "romantic attraction of Haibara towards Conan revealed much later (if ever)" does not seem likely to me.

Where those questions suppose to be your "countless reasons"?
Because all of those could of been accomplished by having cry somewhere else instead of on Conan's chest...like I said in my original reply.

Well, these questions were indeed possible reasons why he would have made her cry made her have a mental breakdown.
And as I said: Having her have it in his chest increased the impact.
Beside... he was the one she was talking with when it happened. He was closest to her.

She only knew Conan for 1 day at that point. Do you think she was in love with her at that time already?

, Did you read my reply or skim it?
I said it could be a piece of a bigger puzzle..writers tend to do a little something called foreshadowing, it's a neat trick. But to answer the obvious, no.

Guess I had taken a bad point to split my post. Okay, that answers my last question.
Okay, I guess I see your position now. But I don't think it was foreshadowing, especially not for a "romantic" relationship (or even the development of romantic feelings of Ai only) between the two.

If you call it a weakness it would be because you weight it differently than me. I say it is one of her biggest strengths. People prefer certain attributes/traits/characteristics, they influence if we fall in love with a person or not. When Shinichi can't be together with Ran anymore he will go for a girl with similar traits. Which would be Ayumi.

You already said this. Let's not go in circles. This is something you cannot hide behind the "opinion shield".
It's in the canon that if Shinichi wants to be with Ran he would even die to accomplish it(I know it doesn't make sense but they are his words  ). You have yet to provide a scenario that turns Ayumi's similarities into an actual strength, you just claim it's a strength.

The scenario is that he can't have Ran anymore. He had to accept reality that it is not possible anymore. He had to admit defeat, for the sake of Ran herself. He can't decide for her that she has to wait for him to grow up again and stay faithful to him if an antidote is not possible.
Then, when Ran is no longer an option and he is getting open for a new relationship he will notice Ayumi who is his physical age and who is very similar to Ran.
This is no opinion - people in real live will be more attracted to partners with similar characteristics as their previous partner(s). Those traits are their preferences so they will find them attractive again when they encounter a different person with them. This is an experience I made myself as well.

But you are right, chances that Conan/Shinichi will give up on Ran are low, he is not ready to give her up. At least not yet. The nice thing on Conan x Ayumi is that they need a few years to mature anyway (Ayumi more than Conan), but these few years would be exactly what could weaken the Shinichi x Ran relationship enough to make one of them - or both Shinichi and Ran in mutual agreement - decide that it would be best to go separate ways. When he searches for a new love he would (unconsciously or consciously) search for a girl similar to Ran.

What if gets countered with a what if:
What if Conan decides to take Yusaku's offer and go overseas with him and invites Ai to help him in his B.O. investigation. A more passive investigation that would have them just solving interpol cases like superstars while biding their time to catch the B.O. at their weakest.

And why would Haibara agree on a mission to actively investigate the BO? Even in the security of a strong agency like interpol, she would have to leave her best cover, she couldn't pretend to be a normal kid anymore. All it takes is one mole in that organization to discover and kill her.
Aside from the point that she would have to leave the professor and all the other friends behind. 

Serious:
I don't think that what if would be possible. If Shinichi left Ran in a mutual agreement it would mean he no longer loves her which means he would not find a copy of her as his partner. So the agreement is either not mutual(which just allows the "Shinichi would do ANYTHING to be with Ran if he still loved her" fact to be slipped in here) or Ayumi's weakness removes her from candidacy.

This "mutual agreement" is only if they realize that they can't be together with each other anymore, for whatever reason. Even if Shinichi were still in his original body if Ran found another partner for herself and if she were serious about it he would not be able to stop her - he would have to accept that it is the best for her, and in the end for him as well to accept that. And as you said: Shinichi would do ANYTHING to be together with her.
But when Conan/Shinichi gives up his double identity and become Conan for good, this restriction would no longer apply. Then Ayumis similarity would be her strength - because she posses the characteristics that made Shinichi fall in love with Ran, and the same traits would now make him attracted towards (older) Ayumi.

He won't fall in love with another girl completely opposite to Ran. He will fall in love with one similar to her. 

Beside, shouldn't Conan shun anything that was responsible for losing Ran instead of people who are like her?

You are assuming Ran has to die and it must be at the hands of the Black Organization for her no longer to be there for Shinichi to return to. There are many scenarios that fulfill "Ran no longer being there" while her still being alive and thus contain Conan shunning anything related and/or similar to her. But let's go with your thing, if the B.O. did kill Ran, why would he shun them?
In your attempt to try another kamikaze attack you overlooked that the canon already showed that Shinichi would attack the B.O. with more force if they hurt someone he cared about. Not to mention Akai is the perfect example of what Shinichi would become if they took Ran from him.
....Besides, Ai isn't B.O. anymore...so why? . This one was a real stretch. 

No, I didn't say Ran has to die. Actually I would hate it if that happened...
What I mean is that his current state prevents him to be with Ran. If he were not shrunk their relationship could have been "perfect" by now. You know, first date, confession, kissing and so on. A normal couple. What is preventing that from happening is the APTX that made him shrink.
If he can no longer be together with Ran for any reason the most obvious thing to blame is the APTX and his shrunken state that made him unable to intervene with whichever event(s) caused this separation from happening. So whenever he sees Haibara wouldn't he instantly be reminded of the APTX because she developed it? It would immediately remind him of what he has lost, what he can't have any longer (=Ran, and his former live in general) because of her.
This effect of constantly reminding him is much weaker in Ayumi, since she has no direct connection to the BO and the APTX.

And seeing it from the perspective of the respective girl: Ayumi would not be affected by this phenomena at all since she has no idea of the APTX, BO or shrunken people. Her mind would not be burdened by any of these things if she were in a romantic mutual relationship with Conan.
Ai on the other hand would probably suffer even more than Conan judging her character. She will regularly blame herself and might be remembered occasionally that she was only "second choice" because her research made Conan/Shinichi unable to be with Ran anymore. This would certainly strongly burden her relationship with him. 

[Tanner-kun]

sorry to bring back old new but

There was a Ai+Mitsuhiko thread once on these boards that contained a battle so fierce it almost destroyed DCTP forums. We lost great warriors like Ginrei would sacrificed himself to save his whole battalion, Akonyl who jumped into a volcano chasing after a ring, ranger who used his final moments to help everyone escape, and Jd- who revealed himself to be the evil master mind behind everything.

As you can see this was an epic battle that went down in history as one of the most epic battles ever.......and still the Ai+Mitsuhiko thread was about ten pages. Unless we ride the "off-topic" wave to 100pages I don't see it happening.

hah 11 pages almost on topic and no epic battle (even though I sent up a fort and everything)