Detective Conan Episode 581 (The Red Shaking Target) Discuss

[Chekhov MacGuffin]

Though I do agree with Chekhov's theory regarding the identity of Akai and Bourbon, I am curious about what Okiya says near the end. He says that Scar Akai "wasn't who I thought he was". That doesn't quite seem to accord with your theory, as far as I can see, though it doesn't work so well the other way either.

This gets asked a lot. I wonder if I should stick it on the main theory page? (I did) It was a message for Conan. Conan knows from what Okiya said that he had seen scar Akai, and Okiya's comments that, "Actually, I happened to see him on that floor. Unfortunately, it seems he wasn't who I thought he was, so I didn't talk to him. I've known his face for a very long time... There's no way I could be mistaken." You can parse his quote this way: "Actually, I happened to see that person who looked like Akai on that floor. This Akai wasn't the real Akai (since I'm the real one), and I didn't confront him. Being the real Akai, this scar Akai is obviously someone else..." Okiya is layering is conversation with a second meaning, confirming there is someone disguising as Akai, for Conan's benefit, and Conan is a bit surprised and nervous about the info since someone in the Org most likely is Scar Akai since they have the motive.

[scineram]

When Kogoro started talking after Sleeping Kogoro was done I had the biggest grin on my face but then it was just the phone text and I was sad. (I guess they didn't want the plot overshadowed by Kogoro's infinite awesomeness)

Same here.

Also, the sniper thing was super amateurish. The credibility of the series is on the line.

[Abs.]

Indeed. You cannot tell which hand someone prefers while writing without trace evidence (outside of witnessing them doing the writing yourself).

Eh, in English there is often a different slant to the letters if written with the left hand.  Of course circumstantial evidence only since not all lefties do that.

[Detective Tommy]

Saw the episode.
My crazy brain says:

Spoiler: The Crazy

Okiya= Bourbon
Scar Akai= That person aka The Boss
Akai= Is alive and working behind the scenes(aka has not made an official appearance yet but warned Jodie in the mall)

Yep, crazy I know but I like it. Gin spoke of Bourbon with distaste in episode 580 but had a sort of admiration when speaking about "Sherlock Holmes" in episode 581. It looked and sounded like this "Sherlock Holmes" has impressed Gin in the past and this new revelation is really nothing new to him, which is why he backed off immediately without displeasure.
A person that can calculate so far ahead that they would spot Shinichi's, Kir's, and Akai's plan(yeah the made a plan) and have a counter, that is a modern day Sherlock Holmes. A Holmes that could keep someone like Gin and Vermouth in line. He also instilled fear into his subordinates with only a glare and reaped the benefits by making Chianti freak out just because he looked at her. Chianti could of subconsciously remembered that glare and acted accordingly but we the viewer interpreted that she was freaking out because Scar-Akai spotted her position(It seemed like she was freaking out without a true cause).

Vermouth also did state "That Person" is very cautious to the point he would knock on a stone bridge to the point of breaking it. It sounds like he's(or she, Akai is looking girly these days) a person that likes to test the resolve of people, like chess match using real people and real situations. So it's not a stretch to believe he made use of Vermouth's talents to part take in this huge chess match his subordinates have been to "pre-occupied" to notice happening.

As for why Okiya is Bourbon?
Yeah he could be Akai and there is evidence he is Akai, but that's no fun. . Gosho is giving us to much evidence that he is Akai to the point it just seems like a fake-out. If Bourbon has his own agenda, it would make sense that he is acting helpful. Perhaps he already has a plan to us Jodie as bait to lure Akai out if he cannot find him and thus protected her in the mall.

that makes me think...

I love your idea that scarred Akai is the BO boss.
This makes me think of a whole new possibility. I actually love this possibility,
Maybe the real Akai will appear soon.

[TheBlind]

Saw the episode.
My crazy brain says:

Spoiler: The Crazy

Okiya= Bourbon
Scar Akai= That person aka The Boss
Akai= Is alive and working behind the scenes(aka has not made an official appearance yet but warned Jodie in the mall)

Yep, crazy I know but I like it. Gin spoke of Bourbon with distaste in episode 580 but had a sort of admiration when speaking about "Sherlock Holmes" in episode 581. It looked and sounded like this "Sherlock Holmes" has impressed Gin in the past and this new revelation is really nothing new to him, which is why he backed off immediately without displeasure.
A person that can calculate so far ahead that they would spot Shinichi's, Kir's, and Akai's plan(yeah the made a plan) and have a counter, that is a modern day Sherlock Holmes. A Holmes that could keep someone like Gin and Vermouth in line. He also instilled fear into his subordinates with only a glare and reaped the benefits by making Chianti freak out just because he looked at her. Chianti could of subconsciously remembered that glare and acted accordingly but we the viewer interpreted that she was freaking out because Scar-Akai spotted her position(It seemed like she was freaking out without a true cause).

Vermouth also did state "That Person" is very cautious to the point he would knock on a stone bridge to the point of breaking it. It sounds like he's(or she, Akai is looking girly these days) a person that likes to test the resolve of people, like chess match using real people and real situations. So it's not a stretch to believe he made use of Vermouth's talents to part take in this huge chess match his subordinates have been to "pre-occupied" to notice happening.

As for why Okiya is Bourbon?
Yeah he could be Akai and there is evidence he is Akai, but that's no fun. . Gosho is giving us to much evidence that he is Akai to the point it just seems like a fake-out. If Bourbon has his own agenda, it would make sense that he is acting helpful. Perhaps he already has a plan to us Jodie as bait to lure Akai out if he cannot find him and thus protected her in the mall.

that makes me think...

I love your idea that scarred Akai is the BO boss.
This makes me think of a whole new possibility. I actually love this possibility,
Maybe the real Akai will appear soon.

What are you waiting for then Detective?
Join in the fun and post your possibility. I feel something good in these threads, so many people working together and analyzing every possible detail, we'll probably have this whole Okiya/Scar Akai thing figured out one month before the arc ends.

[Detective Tommy]

Saw the episode.
My crazy brain says:

Spoiler: The Crazy

Okiya= Bourbon
Scar Akai= That person aka The Boss
Akai= Is alive and working behind the scenes(aka has not made an official appearance yet but warned Jodie in the mall)

Yep, crazy I know but I like it. Gin spoke of Bourbon with distaste in episode 580 but had a sort of admiration when speaking about "Sherlock Holmes" in episode 581. It looked and sounded like this "Sherlock Holmes" has impressed Gin in the past and this new revelation is really nothing new to him, which is why he backed off immediately without displeasure.
A person that can calculate so far ahead that they would spot Shinichi's, Kir's, and Akai's plan(yeah the made a plan) and have a counter, that is a modern day Sherlock Holmes. A Holmes that could keep someone like Gin and Vermouth in line. He also instilled fear into his subordinates with only a glare and reaped the benefits by making Chianti freak out just because he looked at her. Chianti could of subconsciously remembered that glare and acted accordingly but we the viewer interpreted that she was freaking out because Scar-Akai spotted her position(It seemed like she was freaking out without a true cause).

Vermouth also did state "That Person" is very cautious to the point he would knock on a stone bridge to the point of breaking it. It sounds like he's(or she, Akai is looking girly these days) a person that likes to test the resolve of people, like chess match using real people and real situations. So it's not a stretch to believe he made use of Vermouth's talents to part take in this huge chess match his subordinates have been to "pre-occupied" to notice happening.

As for why Okiya is Bourbon?
Yeah he could be Akai and there is evidence he is Akai, but that's no fun. . Gosho is giving us to much evidence that he is Akai to the point it just seems like a fake-out. If Bourbon has his own agenda, it would make sense that he is acting helpful. Perhaps he already has a plan to us Jodie as bait to lure Akai out if he cannot find him and thus protected her in the mall.

that makes me think...

I love your idea that scarred Akai is the BO boss.
This makes me think of a whole new possibility. I actually love this possibility,
Maybe the real Akai will appear soon.

What are you waiting for then Detective?
Join in the fun and post your possibility. I feel something good in these threads, so many people working together and analyzing every possible detail, we'll probably have this whole Okiya/Scar Akai thing figured out one month before the arc ends.

It would be cool for Okiya to be Bourbon, but why did he say "the wolves and the prey", as if he hated the BO? But he is definitely connected with them because he noticed Chianti and Gin's car.

Scarred Akai can't be Akai because Akai is too smart. He wouldn't endanger Kir. Also, he grinned at Chianti. He looks BO related but it's possible he isn't.

I would love the possibility of Scarred Akai = BO Boss.
But I'm still hoping to see the episode where the BO boss is Yoko-chan.

[kkslider5552000]

Although I have very little/no proof I have one theory that I've been leaning towards and it involves the answer to a completely unanswered question.

Spoiler:

Who is Bourbon? Yes, I'm serious. We know that Okiya is a disguise either way and Akai is too if Akai is Bourbon but who is the person who is disguising as either Subaru-san or Amnesia Akai? While I do think it's extremely likely it's a new character, my guess is Koumei.

I skimmed through parts of the Red Wall case in the manga and certain parts certainly helped me believe my theory (especially since that book's description at the end fit pretty well).

[Detective Tommy]

Although I have very little/no proof I have one theory that I've been leaning towards and it involves the answer to a completely unanswered question.

Spoiler:

Who is Bourbon? Yes, I'm serious. We know that Okiya is a disguise either way and Akai is too if Akai is Bourbon but who is the person who is disguising as either Subaru-san or Amnesia Akai? While I do think it's extremely likely it's a new character, my guess is Koumei.

I skimmed through parts of the Red Wall case in the manga and certain parts certainly helped me believe my theory (especially since that book's description at the end fit pretty well).

1) Who is Koumei? http://www.detectiveconanworld.com/wiki/Taka%27aki_Morofushi
2) Why do you believe it's Koumei?

[Jd-]

Indeed. You cannot tell which hand someone prefers while writing without trace evidence (outside of witnessing them doing the writing yourself).

Eh, in English there is often a different slant to the letters if written with the left hand.  Of course circumstantial evidence only since not all lefties do that.

Not quite (I'm a lefty myself )! It's actually entirely dependent on how you hold the pencil and even how you form the letters mentally, no matter which hand it is; some righties slant letters precisely the same way because they hold their utencil at a comparable angle. And even then, there's still little consistency on which to form a theory on it. The reason our writing doesn't appear different is because we often tilt the paper to compensate for it. So, essentially, the writing occurs at practically the same angle on our end as it would for a righty. Roll up all of these factors and any number of external reasons and it's an issue that can't really be sorted out without a lot of secondary information.

As far as I know, the slant thing is a bit of a myth. Few/no handwriting experts claim they can identify someone's handedness from a letter as well (without secondary evidence), to note--particularly criminal ones. Now, if we can just ditch polygraphs, we'll be in much better shape!

As for how it relates to this case: Gosho is right-handed, so it's highly likely that this would be righty too even if he was aware of how it could be analyzed (unless these are overlayed through a computer, as the rest of the text is [obviously]). The actual familiarity of the handwriting is really the only good indicator, and since Jodie doesn't make any fuss about it, I dunno what to think there.

[Kor]

I don't know if it's because the fact that I (like many others here) concluded rather quickly that Akai=Okiya and scar Akai=Bourbon, but to me it felt like the anime episodes make it even more obvious than the manga files did, like either Gosho told the studio what he's planning, or that the studio staff deducted themselves that this is what Gosho is planning and they were trying to highlight that to the viewers. Maybe it was just me though.

Anyway, the Chianti part was hillarious.
Man in the street #1: hey look, she's got a rifle
Man in the street #2: maybe their filming a movie
Not only Chianti is dumb, but the people in the street are also rather dumb...

[kkslider5552000]

Although I have very little/no proof I have one theory that I've been leaning towards and it involves the answer to a completely unanswered question.

Spoiler:

Who is Bourbon? Yes, I'm serious. We know that Okiya is a disguise either way and Akai is too if Akai is Bourbon but who is the person who is disguising as either Subaru-san or Amnesia Akai? While I do think it's extremely likely it's a new character, my guess is Koumei.

I skimmed through parts of the Red Wall case in the manga and certain parts certainly helped me believe my theory (especially since that book's description at the end fit pretty well).

1) Who is Koumei? http://www.detectiveconanworld.com/wiki/Taka%27aki_Morofushi
2) Why do you believe it's Koumei?

he was introduced as a seemingly important and extremely intelligent character and since we can probably get rid of Yamato after the case before the red wall, the only significant (or seemingly significant at least) character introduced in this arc outside of Okiya and (if he's not Akai)Amnesia Akai that fit Bourbon's description at all. But for voice reasons (Koumei can't desguise his voice that well to sound like Okiya. Probably.) for this theory I'll go with the ever popular Okiya = Akai, Akai = Bourbon theory.

The description for the Koumei book at the end of the Red Wall case (while basically used to describe Koumei and, in this case specifically (from Koumei's perspective) Conan). The description of a calm detective that sees through everything fit Scar Akai in this case perfectly. Just the way he looked throughout the case and especially when he looked at Chianti and smiled (granted, being part of their team is probably a big reason why, but how calm even his smile was was pretty interesting).

It's probably not that important but Koumei's assitant who accidently touched the doorknob or something like that never got much of an explanation, which seemed odd to me (but it could have been a random red herring or something).

Koumei being Bourbon being Amnesia Akai would also explain why HE was the one that gave Kogoro that clue and it seems likely he's interested to see if Conan really is the one who solves these cases (although unlike other BO members, it's likely he would do so just because he's also been a kid detective and assumes Conan is just also a kid genius or something. And considering he's been called a detective multiple times, it wouldn't surprise me if he just likes seeing murder cases solved (like how Conan/Shinichi genuinely enjoys solving murder cases))

[kentasaiba]

Bourbon is a great detective so why not Koumei? But shoulnd't he appear more then?

[Akonyl]

if he appeared too often, maybe some people would get suspicious about him.

[dilbertschalter]

Though I do agree with Chekhov's theory regarding the identity of Akai and Bourbon, I am curious about what Okiya says near the end. He says that Scar Akai "wasn't who I thought he was". That doesn't quite seem to accord with your theory, as far as I can see, though it doesn't work so well the other way either.

This gets asked a lot. I wonder if I should stick it on the main theory page? (I did) It was a message for Conan. Conan knows from what Okiya said that he had seen scar Akai, and Okiya's comments that, "Actually, I happened to see him on that floor. Unfortunately, it seems he wasn't who I thought he was, so I didn't talk to him. I've known his face for a very long time... There's no way I could be mistaken." You can parse his quote this way: "Actually, I happened to see that person who looked like Akai on that floor. This Akai wasn't the real Akai (since I'm the real one), and I didn't confront him. Being the real Akai, this scar Akai is obviously someone else..." Okiya is layering is conversation with a second meaning, confirming there is someone disguising as Akai, for Conan's benefit, and Conan is a bit surprised and nervous about the info since someone in the Org most likely is Scar Akai since they have the motive.

I mean, I don't know the original Japanese, so I don't know about double meanings, but from what I can understand of the translation what you are "parsing" it to changes the meaning by eliminating the idea that he couldn't find who he was looking for.

[Detective Tommy]

Although I have very little/no proof I have one theory that I've been leaning towards and it involves the answer to a completely unanswered question.

Spoiler:

Who is Bourbon? Yes, I'm serious. We know that Okiya is a disguise either way and Akai is too if Akai is Bourbon but who is the person who is disguising as either Subaru-san or Amnesia Akai? While I do think it's extremely likely it's a new character, my guess is Koumei.

I skimmed through parts of the Red Wall case in the manga and certain parts certainly helped me believe my theory (especially since that book's description at the end fit pretty well).

1) Who is Koumei? http://www.detectiveconanworld.com/wiki/Taka%27aki_Morofushi
2) Why do you believe it's Koumei?

he was introduced as a seemingly important and extremely intelligent character and since we can probably get rid of Yamato after the case before the red wall, the only significant (or seemingly significant at least) character introduced in this arc outside of Okiya and (if he's not Akai)Amnesia Akai that fit Bourbon's description at all. But for voice reasons (Koumei can't desguise his voice that well to sound like Okiya. Probably.) for this theory I'll go with the ever popular Okiya = Akai, Akai = Bourbon theory.

The description for the Koumei book at the end of the Red Wall case (while basically used to describe Koumei and, in this case specifically (from Koumei's perspective) Conan). The description of a calm detective that sees through everything fit Scar Akai in this case perfectly. Just the way he looked throughout the case and especially when he looked at Chianti and smiled (granted, being part of their team is probably a big reason why, but how calm even his smile was was pretty interesting).

It's probably not that important but Koumei's assitant who accidently touched the doorknob or something like that never got much of an explanation, which seemed odd to me (but it could have been a random red herring or something).

Koumei being Bourbon being Amnesia Akai would also explain why HE was the one that gave Kogoro that clue and it seems likely he's interested to see if Conan really is the one who solves these cases (although unlike other BO members, it's likely he would do so just because he's also been a kid detective and assumes Conan is just also a kid genius or something. And considering he's been called a detective multiple times, it wouldn't surprise me if he just likes seeing murder cases solved (like how Conan/Shinichi genuinely enjoys solving murder cases))

That's a very interesting theory.
Are there any meaning in his name, or etc that might connect with the word "Bourbon" in Japanese?



Also, this might be stupid, but is Kir Japanese or American?
She works for the American CIA, but she looks Japanese.
(Unlike Jodie, James, and Camel who look American.)