Ai + Conan

[Searcher]

hoi, everybody.

It has been a very long time since i posted here, the reason was that i felt that the storyline (the anime) went nowhere. Didn't make any progress, still do.
But is nice to see James Rye (and others) still online, and writing such insightfull post into AiCon. And after reading James Rye post, i remembered an other reason why i got bored with Detective Conan (eventhough i, and mine sister, still watch it). There is no banter between Ai and Conan, it is getting as stale as Conan and ran relationship and that is dead to me. How can Gosho claim that Ai is his favourite character and do so little with her? If he wants to kill Ai at the end, i would feel bad but not much, because Ai has so screentime and interaction with conan. Ai, almost, has become a second ran and that's to much for me.

Well keep up the good work posting helpfull insights and i will try to log on more often.

[1Kaito]

How can Gosho claim that Ai is his favourite character and do so little with her?

Conan is his favorite character. He said Haibara was his favorite character to talk through.

And the storyline hasn't been going anywhere for over 5 years brah

Spoiler:

but the storyline is actually going somewhere soon!

[James Rye]

Yo Searcher! Nice to see another lurker back from the dead. XD

I´m just lurking around here and remain an Aicon zombie, waiting for the right time... TO ATTACK ALL SHINRANS AND BITE THEM AND TURN THEM INTO AICON ZOMBIES AS WELL! MUHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA~

Anyway, sweet pics.^^

@1Kaito

Spoiler: manga

Dunno, we´re over 800 chapters already and i´m still bored. Most BO we´ve seen was Vermouth in sexy motorbike outfit talking to three persons (hahaha).^^

I want some more action, some more witty banter between Ai and Conan, heck, even a better romance between Ran and Shinichi would be okay! Though we all know the later is impossible due Shinichi being Conan at the moment so, meh.

[Divinely Ethereal]

Hey all
So I've been lurking on DCTP for some time; finally decided to get an account. So...thoughts on Haibara and AiCon, and apologies for anything that souds re-hashed; haven't read all the posts on here, of course:



I first fell in love with Haibara's complexity as showcased in her first appearance in the 2hr Special and then again in the Desperate Revival Arc: The way she scared the living daylights out of Kudo with her revelation, how cold and calm she was as he screamed and railed at her at Agasa's house; the fact that she betrayed the Org because they murdered her sister, and not out of good conscience; the melt-down she had at the end of that case; her strong, stead-fast unrequited love for Kudo, with its quiet ache, and the desire to see him happy and safe despite her jealousy/dislike of Ran. However, since then, and particularly after the climax of the Vermouth  Arc, I've realised that, sadly, Haibara  may have well failed to live up to her initial potential as a character.

I love the IDEA behind the Haibara character, not so much the EXECUTION, which to me has been at times both unrealistic and inconsistent. Here's a girl that was raised surrounded by a bunch of psychos from a criminal organisation that doesn't know grace, groomed to take her place within their ranks, isolated by her vast intelligence, bullied at school, friendless, alone; she adores her older sister, but their lives are too different and they've drifted apart(am I the only one who thought she looked distinctly bitter in the flashback where she was looking up her sister's college trip pics in the floppy Akemi sent?)Then Akemi is murdered attempting to get her out of the Org, and Shiho realises that she's gotten the only only person she gave a damn about killed. Isn't that background a recipe for some serious psychological issues?

I don't know, but though she had a lot of promise, she was never shown to be bitter enough, damaged/dysfunctional enough. I think her transition into 'normalcy' as per Gosho is too smooth(granted, it's a mystery show that doesn't have time for character psychology, but even in animes I turn my nose up at like DBZ, we see how much time and effort it took for a character like Vegeta to adjust to life on Earth/the people around him), you'd expect her to be more dangerously volatile, maybe an epic fight/disagreement or two between herself and Kudo on how best to handle a situation, whereupon they stop speaking to one another for a while...something to show her inner struggle; the whole "must let myself be blown up for my friends" is frankly unimpressive for someone who's demonstrated great instincts for self-preservation. Why does she quake at the mere thought of Gin and Vermouth? She faced Gin very calmly on the rooftop of the Hotel, sort of flirted with him, spoke very calmly about her imminent death to Conan once she realised what being trapped in the wine cellar meant. She also faces psycho culprits with ice in her veins, but then sees a random Porsche and starts shaking like a leaf- character inconsistency, I say; someone with the sort of poker face that comes from being raised in the BO should be able to retain their impassive mask, or at least Gosho can show the readers her fear in more subtle ways- the whole Ice Queen/Quaking Mess Dichotomy + Martyr Complex are frankly frustrating and a disservice to sensible character development.

Another blow to Haibara's character development is her new-found appreciation for Ran, which I think is a huge cop-out on Gosho's part. She was  bitter towards her; Ran was a painful reminder of Shiho's failure with her sister; at times she couldn't even bear to look at her. She was also jealous that Ran got to walk in the Light, that she got Kudo's affection, that she was everything she herself wasn't, and then Ran saves her once and suddenly Haibara looks at her with goo-goo eyes and , suitably grateful, very graciously decides to drop out of the race for Conan's heart.  Well, that's just not very realistic, is it. Old jealousies/prejudices die hard; humans are spiteful creatures, someone as flawed and human as Haibara would be forgiven for not taking kindly to being saved by her rival, for not developing some weird sisterly attachment. Besides, Akemi-clone or not, I just don't think it's realistic for an Org-hardened person like Shiho, who's been wearing a mask all her life to be appreciative of sentimental fools  who wear their hearts on their sleeves and cry and scream in public like daft ninnies, much as Ran has been doing with increasing frequency (Oh God, Shirigami+London yuck ><). At least Akemi, being with the Org, knew how to keep it cool, and was generally composed, as well as proving to be very clever and resourceful, as evidenced by her bank heist, qualities which Ran has failed to show.

Despite Haibara's failings(and Conan's, will get there...), I'll be the first to admit that the two charas play very well off one another; AiCon chemistry as friends is far superior to all other couples' as lovers, though that's not saying much, seeing as the majority of couples are trite. The whole enemies-to-allies dynamic, the ''protection'' angle, the fact that this relationship would be founded on trust, understanding, intellect and respect instead of tween hormones/bland infatuation etc, the one person damaged, the other wholesome, the two learning from and influencing one another- all spectacularly alluring stuff, gives the pairing the potential to be really profound and grown up and all, but this is still a pairing that can't be realistically or satisfactorily portrayed unless the flaws in the characterizations in canon are tweaked. Conan would have to grow more mature, less arrogant, less egotistic ,more cautious, more thoughtful/sensitive, his Taurus compassion would have to be fully tapped; there are times in the show where he has demonstrated his ability to grow as a character, but then relapses, spec. when he regains his older body. He cannot even begin to appreciate the complexity of Haibara's person, let alone become a suitable romantic partner until he gets a hearty shove out of the shonen hero corner the author boxed him into, but that's exactly what fanfic is there for

As to Haibara, for the pairing to be truly profound, the author has to portray her in her full complexity, not to shy away from her flaws; after all she's a DAMAGED woman who has seen and done terrible things; her past ought not to be glossed over, and the author mustn't take the easy way out, like Gosho did with Ran, sometimes I think the guy forgets the origins of his character; she's become too nice, bland almost. I live my DC Experience nowadays for the rare moment when Haibara turns around and snarks Conan ("throes of death" comment XD), so I can say to myself, "Yep, there's life in her yet. Somewhere."

Great fanfic fodder nevertheless, with endless possibilities. Apologies for the huge post but 1) first post 2) semi-dead topic

[sonoci]

The whole enemies-to-allies dynamic, the ''protection'' angle, the fact that this relationship would be founded on trust, understanding, intellect and respect instead of tween hormones/bland infatuation etc, the one person damaged, the other wholesome, the two learning from and influencing one another- all spectacularly alluring stuff, gives the pairing the potential to be really profound and grown up and all

I very wholeheartedly agree with this

Though I think part of the problem is that DC is a series that's actually aimed at younger people, so an adult relationship isn't as appreciated by them. To be honest, I think that (no preferences concerned) AiCon would be "better" simply because if they got together it would be a far more stable relationship.

1) They wouldn't have been influenced/biased by knowing each other during their *actual* younger days
2) They *as mentioned above* trust, understand and respect each other more and more as days go by
3) They've been at ends more than once, always realizing in a rational way who is right or that they have to agree to disagree
    a) *to do with 3* When they do disagree, they usually don't get too overblown emotion wise and are willing to actually talk about things (albeit sarcastically)
4) Opposites attract :p
and
Though this isn't a positive point for AiCon but instead a negative for ShinRan
most importantly (though technically mentioned in two)
5) The lack of essential trust with ShinRan. I've heard so many times that relationships are founded on trust, something ShinRan doesn't seem to have. I'm not saying people can't like the pairing, I myself can see why people would like it. I'm not trying to bash. It's just the sad truth that, in reality, Shinichi and Ran are lacking that fundamental trust (at least, Shinichi is. Ran actually is probably holding up her end and trusts Shinichi dearly) The problem is Shinichi's choice to not tell Ran "for her safety". ...Why? I mean, if the BO were to find out anything about Shinichi still being alive, they wouldn't really care who actually knows about the situation but who could know about the situation. In other words, Ran is likely on the hit list regardless of her knowledge.
So then, why doesn't he just tell her? She's in significant danger either way.
Reason: he doesn't trust her. He believes that she'll get too wound up in the events and get them discovered. He thinks she won't be able to keep his secret. The tragic part (for Ran's case, believe it or not) is that he still holds this view even after figuring out that she knew for quite some time before Desperate Revival and was actually helpful. Truth be told, I've only just kind of realized it myself while writing this, but it's really sad how Shinichi doesn't trust Ran and yet she trusts him. ...If anything, Shinichi's the one that's the main problem for their relationship. Obviously he doesn't come out and say it, but if you think about it it's quite obvious.


Anyhoo

[Conia]

The whole enemies-to-allies dynamic, the ''protection'' angle, the fact that this relationship would be founded on trust, understanding, intellect and respect instead of tween hormones/bland infatuation etc, the one person damaged, the other wholesome, the two learning from and influencing one another- all spectacularly alluring stuff, gives the pairing the potential to be really profound and grown up and all

I very wholeheartedly agree with this

Seconded.

The problem is Shinichi's choice to not tell Ran "for her safety". ...Why? I mean, if the BO were to find out anything about Shinichi still being alive, they wouldn't really care who actually knows about the situation but who could know about the situation. In other words, Ran is likely on the hit list regardless of her knowledge.
So then, why doesn't he just tell her? She's in significant danger either way.

As much of a sad ShinRan fan this makes me, I also agree with this.

[Apocrypha]

Conan and Ai are pretty cute together so I would probably support their development if it went that way.  But it's very hard to see that happening.  At the very least, them staying as good friends would be enough to satisfy me as far as their relationship goes.

As for the stuff above, I think it's more about being smart and being protective of their friends and loved ones over trusting them too much.  It's just they don't want to see any danger or harm come to them. 

It's probably been said before, but like Ai probably knows a lot more BO, but is keeping all of that hidden from Conan to keep him safe.  If she told him all that she knew, she'd know what Conan would do.  He'd snoop around and put himself into danger along with everyone else around them.  Conan probably also knows Ai won't tell him anything either, at least until he happened to discover something on his own.

This is also a similar situation when it comes to Conan telling Ran anything about what happened to him.  They know each other well enough to see what actions they would take if they were told anything.

[hiten22]

1) They wouldn't have been influenced/biased by knowing each other during their *actual* younger days
2) They *as mentioned above* trust, understand and respect each other more and more as days go by
3) They've been at ends more than once, always realizing in a rational way who is right or that they have to agree to disagree
    a) *to do with 3* When they do disagree, they usually don't get too overblown emotion wise and are willing to actually talk about things (albeit sarcastically)
4) Opposites attract :p

Agree... Most couples are do that thing  . Lets say is a hard challenges and unique .
More I like is, there is AICON when the story is about love. 

[James Rye]

@Divinely Ethereal

Every word just like i would have said or already have said it and just forgot it. I heart you! Also hope you´ll continue to write some more such posts. <3
Also your avatarpic is so precious.
Do you got the link and could put the image in here, pls?^^

@sonoic
Yeah, it´s what makes Ranichi, for myself no bash intended, a bit shallow. That and the whole Ghosho-god-word, where as when noticing that there are not enough ShinRan-moments to keep the love interest up always use a flash-black of their childhood or teen time all *Look! They´re all over each other! Though Ran discovered that only like a year ago, they were sooooo in love with! DO I HAVE TO NAIL IT ONTO YOU FOREHEAD SO THAT YOU GET IT?!*, same as said as with the overdramatic crying scenes here and there and blabla. I guess for kids and people who grew up with it loving Shinran, its great, not for me. Especially since Ran was my first favorite chara in DC before Ai came. Now... now i kinda have the feeling both of them are like baggy gums, same for Shinichi. -_-

Also i agree with the fanfic stuff, have read tons of both Aicon and ShinRan, but the Aicon were mostly more intriguing. I remember a fic in which Shinichi hasn´t turned nor died at the chapter where Gin gave him the poison. He was then brought to a BO lab where Shiho made experiments on him to find out why he was resitant to APTX. It was quite interesting as both got closer over the time, the lab rat/detective and the (mad) scientist/dangerous BO agent. In the end Shinichi got murdered by Shiho though, but it was still one heck of a read.^^;
ShinRan are mostly about uhm mushy stuff, family, love, drama,etc. Heck there are so many Ran got preganant by Shinichi fics out there it sickens me. At least the one where she got pregnant by some other guy was kinda good, till she made suicide... <.<
But yeah, preferences and opinions and stuff.

[Mareliini]

What am I doing in this thread I don't even..

James Rye, any chance you could remember which aicon fic was that? *smells some angst stuff*

The problem is Shinichi's choice to not tell Ran "for her safety". ...Why? I mean, if the BO were to find out anything about Shinichi still being alive, they wouldn't really care who actually knows about the situation but who could know about the situation. In other words, Ran is likely on the hit list regardless of her knowledge.
So then, why doesn't he just tell her? She's in significant danger either way.

I have though the same. Oh that idiotic situation. >__>

*lurks away*

[Divinely Ethereal]

Thanks all! Let's keep this topic bumped

About Ranichi and trust : Well I maintained in my post above that Kudo is still too thoughtless, egotistic, immature etc. He probably can't begin to understand what it means to want to commit in a relationship. He needs to wait two years...or ten, before he can be deserving of a girl XD But please, let's not bring ShinRan into it.

So, AiCon.... Haibara attracted to Kudo's warmth, innocence and his never-say-die attitude... an abstract kind of love that's quite heartwarming...Nobody wants to discuss the gripes/frustrations I had with Gosho's development of the individual characters of Conan and Haibara that formed a major chunk of my post above, or how to tweak those failings to accommodate the pairing in fanfiction? Nobody else disappointed?

@James Rye: Thanks! As to the pic, I don't recall the site, so sorry, but I have the pic saved and I do wonder if it would be possible to upload it on here for AiCon fans?

As to AixCon fanfics, it's a rare occasion for me to find stuff that demonstrates the proper standards of writing: good command of language, proper flow, proper characterizations etc. What I've found so far:


http://www.fanfiction.net/s/2514858/1/31_Days

http://www.fanfiction.net/s/4587100/1/New_Beginnings

http://www.fanfiction.net/s/4301053/1/F ... the_flames


http://www.fanfiction.net/s/3607925/1/4 ... Shiho&nbsp; *includes a one-shot where Shiho experiments on Kudo with APTX and kills him*

~Keep posting!

[1Kaito]

He says it's to protect her, but... come on...the truth is it'd be awkward and very inconvenient if she knew and especially if Kogoro knew.

He must be thinking if he told ran the truth....

Spoiler:

No more baths together

[James Rye]

@Divinely Ethereal

Yes, i meant that one!

Btw, do you think you could help me search for a fic about Shinichi and Shiho? Somehow i can´t seem to find it anymore. Its about Conan/Ai becoming Shinichi/Shiho again, but this time there´s also a female Shinichi version and a male Shiho version, who were friends of Shinichi of his time in america if i remember correctly. Rei... was that her name, not sure. Can´t for the love of god remember the name of the guy. >.<
Anyway it was a pretty long fic (20-30 +/- some chapters) with long chapters and with lots of reviews, between 200-300, but somehow i can´t find it under Ai and Conan nor under Shinichi and Shiho and now i fear it might have been one of those which aren´t marked. o.o
Or i simply oversaw it. <.<;

Anyway, i wanna read it again, i liked espcially the chapter where Shiho and Shinichi were in the garden while it rained under the tree where they kissed. I wanna read that part again~ <3
But can´t find it. Why didn´t i saved it? ;A;

@1Kaito

Well, we ll knew that Conan was a perv, didn´t we?

[twohaha]

Are you talking about this?

http://www.fanfiction.net/s/1840258/1/F ... _same_star

[AICHAN]

Are you talking about this?

http://www.fanfiction.net/s/1840258/1/F ... _same_star

Yeah I think it is this one...James Rye pushed me to read it...It's a good fanfiction.If Only Gosho could use it in DC...