Mafia! Mafia! Mafia! Character Role Discussions

[KangarooGirl]

2) You mean if someone uses bow-tie investigate/interrogate?

Yep exactly. Basically what I want to clarify is whether it's the items themselves or who they came from. If Agasa is Anokata it probably doesn't matter right now since he's the only one with research but later on we might give it to someone else as well so better set it straight from the start. I'm still inclined to set it as for who it is that uses it to determine. So if BO uses Agasa's BT to interrogate it wouldn't show up on Research but it would if a town member uses it (even if Anokata Agasa gives it to them)

[KangarooGirl]

ALRIGHT! Time for discussion on how to improve the game:

We found Rye to be a wee bit too strong with Vengeance since he KNOWS he will be voting someone on the other side so we're suggesting a change for Rye to Revenge like the other two snipers instead. There was a second suggestion to remove Frighten as well but I think if we put that caveat that Frighten can be used by only one BO member at a time should be fine?

Speaking of Revenge, Kleene I think said this earlier but I really want to change Revenge to be a temporary injury. PGT came to the consensus of 4 phases which felt like a good balance between enough to be bothersome but not too long to might as well be a permanent injury. Discuss!

Next is PT's suggestion on making Betrayal and Interview non-passive. And I would agree on that. It isn't fair to get info when you're not sending something as well. Arguably that should go with James' subordinate results too but see what people say.

Now we've finally been able to test out Toichi, the feedback was there wasn't much control over the actions since the GM was randomising so the proposal is to give Toichi TWO keywords and he picks one action from them. Eg. Toichi gets Detect or Observe and he chooses between DETECT, STAKEOUT, GENDER OBSERVE or AGE OBSERVE.

Lastly stems from the inactivity issue we had that last round. So here is another proposal to handle that:

Spoiler: Proposal to handle inactivity

From now on, every player needs to send a PM to the GM every phase from Night 1. Even if you don’t have day actions and plan not to vote, send the non-vote to the GM. If a player fails to do so for 3 total phases without prior warning, their vote/actions will be split amongst people belonging in the same faction (ie. BO, town, lovers). With cases with prior warning, it will be up to the GM’s discretion, but players need to keep in mind that it will hurt your side if you miss too much.

Which role/player went inactive will NOT be given (although it is likely obvious in some cases). If the player given either of those actions die, it will be passed on to a different living player on the same side. If the inactive player dies, the players given the abilities will be notified they no longer have control over them.

For example, if Rena goes inactive, one player will be given her Betrayal, Investigatex1 and SIx1, and a second player will be given her day votes in the form of a Vote Token. The GM will list the inactive vote as “Token”.

The people who are given the inactive’s abilities/votes may NOT at any point discuss that happening to ANYONE. The inactive person will still be for all accounts and purposes the role, including keeping passive abilities like Vengeance/Revenge, being investigated as doing the actions, and being able to be arrested for it if applicable. For Revenge lynch injuries, the player receiving the inactive’s actions will be accountable. For example, Makoto receives inactive Takagi’s actions. If Takagi was the subject of Revenge, Makoto will not be injured and will still be able to use SO/Follow-up/Arrest as normal to prevent Makoto from knowing Takagi was the one inactive. If Makoto was the subject of Revenge, he will be injured and unable to use all of his own abilities and Takagi’s.

If by chance the inactive person returns, they will come back to a PM from the GM saying they have been considered gone inactive and may no longer participate in the game.

Sample PMs:

To inactive players:
“You did not send actions for X, Y and Z phases. You are now considered inactive and may no longer participate in the game. Your actions have been split up amongst other players on your side, and you may still be investigated as having done the actions that they send for you, but you will not receive results.

You may not discuss anything with living players or post in the game thread about being considered inactive.”

To the ones receiving actions:
“A player on your side is now considered inactive and you have been chosen to take over one of their actions. You may now use X ability/vote each [Night/Day]. You will receive the results for this action, but you cannot be investigated as having used it.

You MAY NOT discuss this with any player.”

[PT]

Should already be obvious, since she even mentions we discussed it together, but I support all of the above. And yeah, if Rye gets Revenge instead of Vengeance, then he can keep Frighten (provided we make it so that BO can only use 1x Frighten per night no matter what).

[Yurikochan]

^

[shinichi'sapprentice]

what did i just read in the previous page x__x i need to catch up with my Conan or is my memory just failing me... @[email protected]

anyways... *tries to write sumthin' and fails* ;v please note that i've never done this before and i've only played seven games so far and just finally for the first time experienced the BO side of things and is just writing from a player's perspective so expect some fails or things that you may already have thought of in a broader point of view that is, being GM which i've never experienced either ;v

1. i already said sumthin' 'bout the Rye thing but if a Vermouth-Akai and Rye (didn't realize/forgot they can be both in xD) are in a game, wouldn't having both Akai and KID-Akai be just as powerful? if his vengeance is going to be replaced with revenge, then maybe might as well give him the sniper status? but then again, there is now an Amuro that can cancel his vengeance anyway so Rye's not really that powerful with just investigations... Lastly, about the frighten, i was gonna suggest he still be able to use it with another frightener at the same phase since the ability is not really an info gathering one but after reading the other roles that are not allowed to use the same action set at the same time, i think i just discombobulated myself imagining a game with a combination of Vodka, Pisco, or Tequila, or all of the three being in the same game xD if it really is still too much powerful though, then i guess it's fine to include Rye in the people who can't use the same action as the ones above ;__;

2. *reads about revenge* @[email protected] it says that cops get injured only two phases... *imagines being a non-cop that is permanently injured* eh... xD *agrees on what has been suggested* since people recovers from injuries anyway...

3. hmm... yeah, i guess it is fine. but speaking of interview... *just read what it does* <.< since the Lovers rules kinda have changed, (or was that just specific to round 63? ;v) it would seem kinda useless about knowing that 'someone used protect' since the player would know that the protect was definitely used by a protector instead of a lover if in the beginning of the game, everyone already knows if lovers are in or not.. dunno.. just wanna comment on that xD annnnnd to the second part of the topic... about the James thing.. was that related to my James question..? xD or is that about sumthin' else ;v *is discombobulated* @[email protected]

4. what does it mean that 'there wasn't much control over the actions'? was it... too powerful? xD with the example given though, even if Toichi gets another keyword, wouldn't he be always choosing detect over others? or whatever is the more useful thing ;v

5. >.> *kicks/snipes/throws out the window the inactive players* ;v no objections with the proposal but just a few comments maybe.. it says that players NEED to PM the GM EVERY phase-- actually nvm ;v i always send wills even at n1 even if i'm BO EVERY PHASE so i don't think i'll miss a phase even if my role is something that has no actions to send on particular phases xD will read the proposal more later to see if i think of something to say ;v

*disappears to zzz*

[KangarooGirl]

1. Akai and KID-Akai is impossible. KID/Vermouth can't disguise as someone already IN the game. They can disguise as their alts like Conan and KID-Shinichi though. And Akai's Vengeance can easily hit a townie rather than a BO but the BO know who their teammates are so they'll definitely hit a townie. That's what makes it powerful.

3. That was specific to round 63 but we were hoping for it to be something more permanent because cross lovers and even when there isn't, the threat of it causing paranoia is terrible. It's up to future GMs whether they want to implement it. With lovers, protect is a special case. Generally you'd get something else besides protect the whole time. Since there's so much going on you'd have to really be hated by random to only get protect. The James part did come to mind with your James question but not really? It is a separate issue in the sense James' is a status rather than an ability. But since our logic is no free info for inactives, keeping it as a status makes it so that it'll be free info still. That's why I wanted others' opinion whether to keep it that way.

4. It wasn't powerful enough. Raiden kept wanting other abilities other than the ones random gave him. Well, not kept. A few nights :x And I would expect Toichi to use whatever he feels works best for him at the time, sure. It's not necessarily always detect though. Like interrogate or stakeout can be useful too depending on the situation. And if Toichi feels like someone might die he might appreciate being able to heal/protect.

5. I thought spending a minute sending the GM a PM is not that hard. Just something to let us know you're alive and paying attention to the game Ideally it will contain actions too, of course.

[Kleene Onigiri]

I agree to the suggested changes too
But there are some either or suggestions too so here is some thought from me:

ALRIGHT! Time for discussion on how to improve the game:

We found Rye to be a wee bit too strong with Vengeance since he KNOWS he will be voting someone on the other side so we're suggesting a change for Rye to Revenge like the other two snipers instead. There was a second suggestion to remove Frighten as well but I think if we put that caveat that Frighten can be used by only one BO member at a time should be fine?

Yeah, vengeance is too strong with that :V
I think frighten can stay when only one BO can use frighten if there are two roles in with frighten. (with that, GM can vary the ability-pool)

Speaking of Revenge, Kleene I think said this earlier but I really want to change Revenge to be a temporary injury. PGT came to the consensus of 4 phases which felt like a good balance between enough to be bothersome but not too long to might as well be a permanent injury. Discuss!

Yeah, permanent injury is bleh when you get injured at the beginning of a game
4 Phases sounds good \o/

Next is PT's suggestion on making Betrayal and Interview non-passive. And I would agree on that. It isn't fair to get info when you're not sending something as well. Arguably that should go with James' subordinate results too but see what people say.

Non passive is good, for one it's a reminder for the GM too (XD) and as a player you feel more active too.
I think James subordinate result is more a status than a passive and is different from betrayal or interview. Since James get the info just once at the beginning, while interview and betrayal give out info each phase-pair. So you actually have to use it or get the info every phase.
So I think you can let James Status info as passive. It's also kinda an info that comes with your role.
That said, NOC is also a status and also comes along with the role information.

It would also be strange to make the FBI Leader an active ability, since the person who is James would first need to know that they are James. So if James is supposed to know the amount of FBI in the game on Night 1, he'd need to send an action during prep.phase? Which is strange? XD (if my babbling makes sense XD)

Now we've finally been able to test out Toichi, the feedback was there wasn't much control over the actions since the GM was randomising so the proposal is to give Toichi TWO keywords and he picks one action from them. Eg. Toichi gets Detect or Observe and he chooses between DETECT, STAKEOUT, GENDER OBSERVE or AGE OBSERVE.

Also good \o/

Lastly stems from the inactivity issue we had that last round. So here is another proposal to handle that:

Spoiler: Proposal to handle inactivity

From now on, every player needs to send a PM to the GM every phase from Night 1. Even if you don’t have day actions and plan not to vote, send the non-vote to the GM. If a player fails to do so for 3 total phases without prior warning, their vote/actions will be split amongst people belonging in the same faction (ie. BO, town, lovers). With cases with prior warning, it will be up to the GM’s discretion, but players need to keep in mind that it will hurt your side if you miss too much.

Which role/player went inactive will NOT be given (although it is likely obvious in some cases). If the player given either of those actions die, it will be passed on to a different living player on the same side. If the inactive player dies, the players given the abilities will be notified they no longer have control over them.

For example, if Rena goes inactive, one player will be given her Betrayal, Investigatex1 and SIx1, and a second player will be given her day votes in the form of a Vote Token. The GM will list the inactive vote as “Token”.

The people who are given the inactive’s abilities/votes may NOT at any point discuss that happening to ANYONE. The inactive person will still be for all accounts and purposes the role, including keeping passive abilities like Vengeance/Revenge, being investigated as doing the actions, and being able to be arrested for it if applicable. For Revenge lynch injuries, the player receiving the inactive’s actions will be accountable. For example, Makoto receives inactive Takagi’s actions. If Takagi was the subject of Revenge, Makoto will not be injured and will still be able to use SO/Follow-up/Arrest as normal to prevent Makoto from knowing Takagi was the one inactive. If Makoto was the subject of Revenge, he will be injured and unable to use all of his own abilities and Takagi’s.

If by chance the inactive person returns, they will come back to a PM from the GM saying they have been considered gone inactive and may no longer participate in the game.

Sample PMs:

To inactive players:
“You did not send actions for X, Y and Z phases. You are now considered inactive and may no longer participate in the game. Your actions have been split up amongst other players on your side, and you may still be investigated as having done the actions that they send for you, but you will not receive results.

You may not discuss anything with living players or post in the game thread about being considered inactive.”

To the ones receiving actions:
“A player on your side is now considered inactive and you have been chosen to take over one of their actions. You may now use X ability/vote each [Night/Day]. You will receive the results for this action, but you cannot be investigated as having used it.

You MAY NOT discuss this with any player.”

Sounds good too \o/
Tho 3 total phases might be a bit harsh, in case the game is running for a long time and someone happens to miss the phasechange or so. (but then the GM would just adjust as how they see it fit)

[Kleene Onigiri]

Oh yeah, about the activity:

Would a post in the thread count as enough activity too or would you still need to PM the GM too? (would be easier to track for the GM if they still need to PM, but also a bit strange too XD)

[PT]

Regarding James, he gets info every phase due to his Leader status, if subordinates are in. He'll get one result that his subs got. So that's what Hayley meant when talking about making it non-passive. Obviously he would find out at the beginning of the round how many subs are in and if any are suspicious, and he wouldn't need to send anything to get that info. But each night phase, should he have to send something to get info back about what his subs are doing?

As for the activity thing: I stand by saying they need to PM the GM every phase. Even if it's just a "hey, I'm still here" thing or a "not voting today" PM.

If something comes up irl, they can let the GM know and it's up to the GM's discretion what to do about it.

[KangarooGirl]

What PT said regarding James. Like if James doesn't go to the office those reports will be piled up at his desk anyway (because his subs are active) so I'm fine keeping it the same.

3 phases isn't too harsh I think. Because if you look at this game while the BO played extremely well, 2 night phases missed is 40% of it! And that was enough for the town to fall behind.

[Kleene Onigiri]

Ohhhh~ I completely forgot about that part for james passive XD
yeah, then it makes sense.

Well, I mean in the extremely rare cases where the phases get into a 2 digit number or so :x

[pofa]

All the role stuff sounds good to me. ^^ I can see how that suggestion to Toichi might help when he's trying to ally.

And I'm also in for the inactivity proposal, and I say that as someone who might have actually been penalized by it before, because I miss phases sometimes. ^^; Sometimes you can't help it, but spreading your abilities around will make it a lot fairer to the people who were still able to play and also to the GM.

So more of a policy than a "punishment" imo.

[Raiden]

@On Rye: Agree with you, Hayley.

On Permanent Injury: Yes, please. Sounds good to me
Since permanent injury's been brought up, could we do something to First Aid like that too? As someone who has been penalized with permanent injury since Night 1 for two FM games in a row it really sucks...but I might be biased on that.

Next is PT's suggestion on making Betrayal and Interview non-passive. And I would agree on that. It isn't fair to get info when you're not sending something as well. Arguably that should go with James' subordinate results too but see what people say.

I think it sucks that we have to even discuss this rule change, but don't mind it being implemented if it's really necessary...just meh. V:

Now we've finally been able to test out Toichi, the feedback was there wasn't much control over the actions since the GM was randomising so the proposal is to give Toichi TWO keywords and he picks one action from them. Eg. Toichi gets Detect or Observe and he chooses between DETECT, STAKEOUT, GENDER OBSERVE or AGE OBSERVE.

As fun as the gamble aspect of Toichi was to start with, yes, I do agree some form of control would be really nice. Example: Night 4, after speaking with pofa / before sending in actions, I wish I had gotten Heal instead of Detect so I could heal her...because gut feeling... I know now that she was bribe-killed so it didn't matter but if the BO hadn't decided to use their bribe on her, it would have made the whole difference between dead and alive cop. XD
Also as pofa mentioned, a bit of control over his abilities help in allying. I was kinda paranoid that some cop would arrest me for steals when trying to ally with them. ^^;

Don't mind the Inactivity Policy either. Sounds good with me, not that I would be affected by it as I already do give the GM a poke with a 'no voting today also *insert funny quote/pic* <3'. XD

[James Rye]

Damn, must have been AGES since I had last been here. And the DC mafia game looks so different from the last time I have played it. XD

[Yurikochan]

Damn, must have been AGES since I had last been here. And the DC mafia game looks so different from the last time I have played it. XD

You should play mini mafia on IRC with us!