ESPIONAGE: Round One (Spy arrested, Civilians win)

[Kleene Onigiri]

Eh? Really? How boring is that? D: Random voting?
First of, whether we vote random or if all vote the 1st person on their list is kinda the same thing. Since both are just random outcomes in the end. We don't know if we'd hit the spy or the detective or just a civilian. And if we all vote randomly, at the end of the phase we won't be able to deduct anything out of the votes, because everything was random and not based on any evidence (like in mafia).
There is also only one spy, so the spy can't get deducted out of his/her vote. Since it doesn't matter much for the spy who he'll vote. Since he doesn't know who's a civilian or who's the detective either.

Thaaaat's whyyyyy, I'm kinda against random voting :3 It's not bad, but it's not very effective. Since in the next phases, most people will have no clue or information who's spy/detective anyway D:
I also find it more fun when you have to defend yourself against being voted :3
It would be very boring dying the first phase out of randomness, and not being able to have done anything against it D:

I'm not sure if that's a good idea either, but I thought about something like that:
We all will nominate a bunch of people to get voted for. (obviously, it can't be just one person naming 7 names *cought* since that's kinda revealing your list ) That way, those people can defend themselves and everyone could get a hunch whether that person is the spy/detective or not.
Other people could also try to defend them based on their own hunches/clues. Or try to get that person arrested because he/she is on their own list.

How about it? \o/ Just an idea

[miyano_shiho]

..(omg why did I think there were only 6 people in my list, this is going to make me suspicious now :V But I swear I'm civilian. If you want to vote me though I wouldn't care)

[Jd-]

Only 12 hours left until--!...

..(omg why did I think there were only 6 people in my list, this is going to make me suspicious now :V But I swear I'm civilian. If you want to vote me though I wouldn't care)

I already posted long before that lists are of 7 people, so I wouldn't worry much considering it's public knowledge.

[bash7353]

[...]

..(omg why did I think there were only 6 people in my list, this is going to make me suspicious now :V But I swear I'm civilian. If you want to vote me though I wouldn't care)

I already posted long before that lists are of 7 people, so I wouldn't worry much considering it's public knowledge.

I think you've misunderstood. Miyano's said earlier that there are six names on her list. Now she's afraid we'll think that's the kind of mistake someone without a list might typically make...

[Nix]

The thing is, I just don't see how one can defend themself :V
If I was asked to defend myself.. since there are no alliances and such, no one could defend me, and I'd be stuck on what to say.

The only clues one can gather is from voting and killings and since votings will be confusing with the 2 without a list.. *confused*

So how about random voting (from our own lists) for day 1, then try stop/kleene's suggestion?

[Jd-]

I think one little addendum we could add before the end of this phase is that arrested players are not considered victorious even if their side wins. Because it isn't like being killed by the Spy (who is always your enemy), it will require at least the Spy + one of your allies to have you arrested, thus you will have to defend yourself if you don't want to be arrested and still want to have won the game by surviving as long as possible.

Any objections to that? I thought about it a little before the game started, but now I think it would actually give a little more gravity to those defense showdowns that are inevitably on the horizon.

[...]

..(omg why did I think there were only 6 people in my list, this is going to make me suspicious now :V But I swear I'm civilian. If you want to vote me though I wouldn't care)

I already posted long before that lists are of 7 people, so I wouldn't worry much considering it's public knowledge.

I think you've misunderstood. Miyano's said earlier that there are six names on her list. Now she's afraid we'll think that's the kind of mistake someone without a list might typically make...

I understood. I was saying that there's nothing to worry about with such a mistake, since it's one that anyone could make with or without the knowledge of how many people are on the lists. As in, it's already posted how many are on it, the Detective and Spy players now know as well, so I wouldn't take that sort of thing as a serious indication of anything right now. Right now, we've not really had a lot of reason to closely examine or remember our lists, so not knowing the exact number off-hand or knowing all 7 isn't much of a big deal, at least to me.

[Kleene Onigiri]

@nix: sure. I guess it'll end up being a random vote this phase anyway, before everyone decides what to do. It's just a bit sad when you get arrested on the first phase without being able to do anything about it XD
But we can't do random every phase :V

[bash7353]

[...]

[...]

..(omg why did I think there were only 6 people in my list, this is going to make me suspicious now :V But I swear I'm civilian. If you want to vote me though I wouldn't care)

I already posted long before that lists are of 7 people, so I wouldn't worry much considering it's public knowledge.

I think you've misunderstood. Miyano's said earlier that there are six names on her list. Now she's afraid we'll think that's the kind of mistake someone without a list might typically make...

I understood. I was saying that there's nothing to worry about with such a mistake, since it's one that anyone could make with or without the knowledge of how many people are on the lists. As in, it's already posted how many are on it, the Detective and Spy players now know as well, so I wouldn't take that sort of thing as a serious indication of anything right now. Right now, we've not really had a lot of reason to closely examine or remember our lists, so not knowing the exact number off-hand or knowing all 7 isn't much of a big deal, at least to me.

I realise that the number of players on each list was already known at that time. However, it's not far-fetched to say that someone who didn't receive a list is more likely to make such a mistake than someone who did. At the same time, most would - if they didn't get a list - be extra careful not to accidentally say anything that might reveal their identity as an non-civilian role, wouldn't they? Unless, of course, it's a double bluff.

So the question is: How devious do we think Miyano is?

[Stopwatch]

The list should not be ignored. What's good in the list is that there is a guarantee that the spy or detective, or both, are in there. It gives us something to start with. We have 7 people out of 20 in the list, and each person there has a 1/7 or 2/7 probability of having a role, as opposed to 1/12 from choosing one of the other 12 (excluding yourself of course) not in the list, which is obviously much lower. (Sorry I'll just keep talking in terms of probabilities now :V) These apply to both the spy and detective but there is still a very low chance we'll hit either of them in the early phases. Also, if we make sure everyone votes someone from their list, we'll soon narrow down the players in each of our lists.

(edited because I don't know what happened I put in the wrong numbers :V)

That will only work if people can reveal their lists and unless we have a way to hint in play the obvious route is out. However, whoever we hit is going to be on a list; just that whoever gets lynched will be on more of them and so narrow it down for more people. There's still a risk of hitting the Detective though.

We can't really afford to try and play like this the entire way through though. Look, can someone come up with a questionnaire or something? Like, if you were the Spy who would you kill and why? (Or potentially, if you were the detective who would you investigate? Though that would be put to better use later. If we do "read lists" each phase from D2 then the Detective can hide their investigations in there. As in, we all have to put a "100% Civilian/Spy" read so that if the Detective ends up dead we still have their investigations.


EDIT: Although actually, there isn't particularly a higher probability of hitting the Spy because they don't have to be on all lists. There's no way to prove or disprove that without knowing the lists, but yeah.

@Jd-: I object ^^;. At least partly because a Civilian may sacrifice themselves (for example, to act as a decoy by implying a special role and then it getting them arrested instead, or if the numbers get low and someone is coming off suspicious and choose to vote themselves so that Town can have a clearer picture the next day) and also because it may affect the way they defend themselves and take away some of the information that can be gained from it.

@googleearth: My view on it was simply that it was a mistake. If you go looking into it any further it'll go bluff, double bluff, triple and so on, with nothing to be taken from it, but your time.

@Nix and Kleene (sort of): I think a bit less can be gained from the votes than normal anyway because from that we usually establish connections between players. For example, who you vote on D1 is extremely important. In this game, because the Spy is on their own instead of a team we can't find the sorts of links you can get from votes because they don't exist in the same way.

That said, I think we can still use reactions from questioning others and what they say, but we need to make an effort to produce reactions from people to read into.

[dumytru]

So the question is: How devious do we think Miyano is?

*hmm*
I think it's possible to make such a mistake.
One would be paying more attention to the names, not their number.

But wait--!

Spoiler:

[miyano_shiho]

I still stand by what I said, I'm civilian and I made a mistake, and I wouldn't care if you vote me. Also, if you know me well, you might be able to tell if I was lying or not :V

@dumytru: yeah I like numbers and I facepalmed when I saw my mistake :V

EDIT: 300th post!

[dumytru]

Lol @ Kleene's avatar

[Kleene Onigiri]

@stop: not sure if you are agreeing or not XD

@dumytru: what appeared?

[dumytru]

@dumytru: what appeared?

Spoiler:

Edit: Now you're pirate? :> Wait-- Onigiri?

[Stopwatch]

@stop: not sure if you are agreeing or not XD

Other than the votes bit (which I don't think we can gain that much from due to the setup), I think I agree.