Mafia! Mafia! Mafia! Character Role Discussions

[Conia]

Usually, if a BO that uses APTX and is arrested normally will loose the APTX (whether it was correct or not)

So I'm for the idea that a detained BO that was using APTX will fail the APTXing but "take the APTX with him to prison", meaning once that BO is released, he'll have that APTX with him :V

Yeah, I think this would be the easiest way to get what we want (the BO not losing the APTX upon detention) without adding too much extra rules.
Though, in this case maybe we should work out again when lawsuit can be used by BO members. Having Anokata use it with his killing action just to get the poison back (and get the BO lynched the next day without giving him much chances to do anything) or making Irish save up his Eri disguise just to retrieve the poison might be bad side-effects of the rule.
On the other hand it is not so far-fetched that the BO considers their secrets (the APTX) more important than their own members. It just shouldn't make confiscating APTX be so dependent if the BO has lawsuit or not...

Detained or arrested, it is in the best interest of the BO to free their partners, so I don't really see it as an issue.
Also, Anokata's killing action permits Lawsuit? That should be changed, it is extremely overpowered

@Kleene: About bottle, yes every phase you have the bottle will affect you. Aside from the first night since a BO starts out with it and the BO leader/second leader can send in his actions. Unless I understood Con-chan wrong.

That'd be correct. The BO will start with the power to pass the bottle to anyone during Night 1, but it won't be affected by it during that phase. Sorta like, The Bottle is introduced in the game by the BO to mess up with the townies, but then it becomes a problem for everyone!

[Yurikochan]

Usually, if a BO that uses APTX and is arrested normally will loose the APTX (whether it was correct or not)

So I'm for the idea that a detained BO that was using APTX will fail the APTXing but "take the APTX with him to prison", meaning once that BO is released, he'll have that APTX with him :V

Yeah, I think this would be the easiest way to get what we want (the BO not losing the APTX upon detention) without adding too much extra rules.
Though, in this case maybe we should work out again when lawsuit can be used by BO members. Having Anokata use it with his killing action just to get the poison back (and get the BO lynched the next day without giving him much chances to do anything) or making Irish save up his Eri disguise just to retrieve the poison might be bad side-effects of the rule.
On the other hand it is not so far-fetched that the BO considers their secrets (the APTX) more important than their own members. It just shouldn't make confiscating APTX be so dependent if the BO has lawsuit or not...

Detained or arrested, it is in the best interest of the BO to free their partners, so I don't really see it as an issue.
Also, Anokata's killing action permits Lawsuit? That should be changed, it is extremely overpowered

That was changed after the second game with killing actions Honey-chan.

@Kleene: About bottle, yes every phase you have the bottle will affect you. Aside from the first night since a BO starts out with it and the BO leader/second leader can send in his actions. Unless I understood Con-chan wrong.

That'd be correct. The BO will start with the power to pass the bottle to anyone during Night 1, but it won't be affected by it during that phase. Sorta like, The Bottle is introduced in the game by the BO to mess up with the townies, but then it becomes a problem for everyone!

Conia just likes causing trouble

[Kleene Onigiri]

I'll be the next GM, so I thought about some changes:

- Asami will be replaced by Minerva, to have a Adult town trickster.

Changing Uehara:
She'll be able to use normal Detect and some kind of new "protect" (name:???). If she uses that Protect: If she has the identity right, she'll be able to fend off an APTX(like charm). She will only get a feedback once she got the identity right and if that person was APTXed.
She'll be able to use it on 2-3 people and won't loose the ability once it succeeds (unlike Charm)
Other variation: Instead of being able to use it on 2-3 people, she can just use it on 1. If the identity is correct, that person will be protected from APTX and Lynching. [Maybe too strong]

Changing Gin (maybe):
- can still slander
- Instead of investigate, he'll get a new "interrogate" that can be investigated as interrogate.
This "Interrogate" (needs new name XD) will tell Gin if someone is in a Organization(BO, Police, FBI/CIA) or not (rest)
- Maybe giving him Investigate 1 OR "New interrogate"


Also, maybe I'll do something similar like "personal Objectivs" like Schillok did. But more event like ore 1 time use. Don't worry, there won't be anything like betraying their own side and stuff.
I thought about making them secret first, and just saying roughly what those events could do. Like delaying deaths and stuff. But not saying who can do it unde which conditions.
Or are people against that a lot, so I make them public? (in case I do them)

[xpon]

Changing Gin (maybe):
- can still slander
- Instead of investigate, he'll get a new "interrogate" that can be investigated as interrogate.
This "Interrogate" (needs new name XD) will tell Gin if someone is in a Organization(BO, Police, FBI/CIA) or not (rest)

this will mean that when GIN use this, he will know if the the target is having GUN or not.

or maybe DB will show as group member too? then with observe, they can point out Ai really fast!




i am voting that personal Objectives is keep secrets from public!

[Vylash]

please, no personal objectives

[Mohorovicic]

Talk in #minimafia actually made me consider tweaking Conan just a bit.

Spoiler:

Conan, Shrunken Meitantei
Night action: Investigate 3 OR Interrogate
Day action: Mimic
Interrogation: Not BO
Scent: No
Disguise: No
Items: School book, Glasses
Observe: Child

And the new action, Mimic:
Mimic
Roles with that: Conan
- Day action
- Conan may choose to Mimic a role (regardless or not the role is in the game) can do at Night. Target of Mimic is a role (Kujou, Shinichi, Kogoro), and not players (Akonyl, Parkur, Cheesus). He cannot Mimic himself.
- During the following Night, Conan can use a random action target role had during the night.
- Conan may use his Investigate/Interrogate AND his Mimicked action on the same Night.
- If Conan Mimics Investigate or Interrogate, it stacks with his original Investigate and Interrogate.
- If Conan Mimic Investigate, he can only Investigate one extra action, regardless whether the target role had Investigate 2 or Investigate 5.
- Conan may not Mimic the same role/action twice. He may not use Mimic two Days in a row.
- Example: Conan Mimics Heiji's Investigate 5. The following Day, he cannot Mimic at all. The Day after that Day, he cannot Mimic Heiji, and will not get Investigate again from Mimic.
- Conan cannot Mimic BO roles.
- Actions that can be Mimicked: Detect, Discombobulate, Steal, Observe, Investigate, Special Investigate, Interrogate, Stake-out, Deduction.

Feel free to disregard my babbling.

[pofa]

She'll be able to use it on 2-3 people and won't loose the ability once it succeeds (unlike Charm)

This sounds really really strong, since by the end of the game the town alliance usually know each other's roles. So it'd make the BO essentially unable to APTX at the end if she got into the alliance. :/ You could give her "charm" along with Kazuha and make it the same ability, but again having two roles in the game that can steal a BO APTX is harsh on the BO, since they only have 3 to begin with.

I like at least giving her normal detect though. So Okiya/Bourbon won't be so alone.

[Kleene Onigiri]

@moho: Conan is already strong because he's a child, so easy to identify (tho it's bad if the BO identifies him :x) Soo :V


@pofa: Yeah, that's true D: But people didn't like that there were so many APTXings :x
I didn't want to give her an item, because you can prove yourself easier that way. And just vermy would be an option (or irish) for BO.
Whit that, the BO can also try to pretend to be Uehara. So it won't be safe to tell someone claiming Uehara your role XD
But in order to make it easier for the BO to APTX at the end of the game when she's around, we could put in a delay. So you can't protect someone 2x in a row. You need to skip a day or protect someone else on the next day.
Night APTXing would come in handy again XD

[Holmes]

please, no personal objectives

Totally agreed

[Mohorovicic]

please, no personal objectives

Totally agreed

Oh, yes, no personal objectives.

[Kleene Onigiri]

Those are still events XD

[Kleene Onigiri]

http://forum.dctp.ws/viewtopic.php?t=7140.0

Rules changes etc. will be put in there

[Holmes]

I have an idea (sorry, I didn´t know where to put this), what about another Anonymus Mafia, also giving everyone a new username but we play with both, with the original username you use your action on the ficitional username but you don´t know who he is so you actually don´t know on who you actually used your action. So the ficitional username is only for the actions.

Like dunno, Holmes=Hot Dog, Kleene=Onigiri. I say for example "I trick Onigiri", but I don´t know who Onigiri is really. So, another hypothetical scenario, Kleene says "I couldn´t do my action" and I (Holmes) don´t know if it was my fault.

I know I didn´t explain it clearfully so I guess most probably is difficult to understand

[aly_angelflight]

I have an idea (sorry, I didn´t know where to put this), what about another Anonymus Mafia, also giving everyone a new username but we play with both, with the original username you use your action on the ficitional username but you don´t know who he is so you actually don´t know on who you actually used your action. So the ficitional username is only for the actions.

Like dunno, Holmes=Hot Dog, Kleene=Onigiri. I say for example "I trick Onigiri", but I don´t know who Onigiri is really. So, another hypothetical scenario, Kleene says "I couldn´t do my action" and I (Holmes) don´t know if it was my fault.

I know I didn´t explain it clearfully so I guess most probably is difficult to understand

I understand what you're saying, but I think that set-up would be a headache for the town, since the BO can claim to have used Detect/Deduction/Interrogate/Investigate and got a certain result when they really are just creating discord without fear of the consequences, because--hey!--they don't know my fictional username, so they can't lynch me for lying!

[pofa]

I had some observations about this round that nobody probably cares about XD A lot of the strongest roles on both sides were in the game, so it was neat to see it play out.

Gin's pry has the potential to make him a REALLY strong role. BO or Kleene would have to tell me how much use it actually was, but I (Heiji) was effectively paralyzed from telling anyone any of my abilities, because all it would take would be an observation or a theft to APTX me. I kinda liked the idea of it, but was it too strong? Especially since it allows Gin to pretend to be an interrogator when he uses it.

Bourbon and Okiya and Yusaku are all still really strong without much effort from the player. I guess the same could be said about Ayumi and Sherry, but to ID someone, you usually already have some idea who they were. In this game, deduct lists took out several consecutive BO, and Bourbon's spy list probably did the same judging from all the APTX. I know I keep harping on deduct/spy, but it's irritating from both sides of the field to be playing as well as you can, but to get lynched or APTX'd not because the other side made a legitimate effort against you, but just because someone decided to use deduct/spy that night and you were the unlucky one.

I'm not really sure what I'd change it to, but maybe at least only letting Bourbon or Okiya use either deduct OR detect at night, like Yusaku? D: And make it so you can't investigate detect or something, to keep them safer? (Though now that Uehara and Genta can also detect, it's not quite as much of an issue anymore).

Kleene and I PM'd about  possibly giving Yamamura the option to use hinder instead of Confuse (either/or) to help Tequila blend in better and to let you get a little more info as Yamamura. I thought it might be cool. *shrug*

There's also been talk in the mm chatroom about giving a BO the ability to travel. Mainly so travelers can't "prove" themselves to the town by telling people to lynch them (which is more of an issue mm games), but also to possibly give a BO such as Pisco or Tequila or Sherry, who has trouble blending in, more options. Maybe as a killing action or something?

This has to do with a couple of rounds ago, but maybe there should be a limit on how many "groups" of town allies there can be in a game of a certain size? Like there's a "limit" on the number of BO that should be in a certain sized game. I can't remember which round, but I was playing as BO in a mid-sized game, and there were BFs, lovers, and DBs all in the game, and it really made things difficult on lynching days. I know "limiting" it like that could help the BO deduce roles, but at the same time, it's hard when there are so many alliances together from the beginning. ;_; Maybe someone else could come up with a better solution?