Mafia! Mafia! Mafia! Character Role Discussions

[Akonyl]

I like the idea of reducing Nakamori's investigations to 2, since I still think having three abilities that can all be done at once, one of which is like a super-investigation already, is a little too strong. (I feel a little the same way about Satou's detention, but it's still weaker than face pinch since it gives her no info.) And like someone else said, it would keep Yumi safer if she weren't the only role with 2 investigations.

Also, was the bomber notified of how many policemen were in the game this round?

what about megure and shiratori, then? They also have three abilities they can use in one phase.

I just think nakamori's getting extra hate because I arrested three people this round, two of which I would have been able to do anyway even if I wasn't him

[xpon]

You say the out come will be the same if we forbid double poisoning? NO! by forbid double poisoning, it will allowed the townie to do 1 more actions! that is where the problem lies

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@Akonyl
no.. you play good!

[PT]

I actually don't have any issues with the way Nakamori is now. Although I wouldn't mind dropping him down to two investigations to help hide Yumi a bit. Most of the police have 3 abilities (Investigate + Arrest + Special Ability), so I don't think that's an issue.

You say the out come will be the same if we forbid double poisoning? NO! by forbid double poisoning, it will allowed the townie to do 1 more actions! that is where the problem lies

But it's not like the townie will know the poisoning was attempted in the first place. And if the guess was right the first time, there wouldn't be any difference at all, except the BO wouldn't lose the one capsule.

[xpon]

yes.. but it worth because if the townie that aptxed have a night ability.. there is a change she / he can made a lucky investigation / arrest or anything!.....

and it is balanced right? the gamble will be using 1 more actions or get rid 1 aptx!

[Schillok]

what about megure and shiratori, then? They also have three abilities they can use in one phase.

I just think nakamori's getting extra hate because I arrested three people this round, two of which I would have been able to do anyway even if I wasn't him

They are allowed to both house-search and arrest during the same phase? Well, I would rather change that than adding Nakamori to that list.
Beside... how often do they arrest and house-search during the same phase, even if they are allowed to do that? However Nakamori will always both investigate and face-pinch.

Again: I would rather restrict Megure and Shiratori.
Beside... even when the number of investigations of Nakamori get reduced by 1, he will still be able to use 3 abilities at once.


And no, it is not about how well you handled him. It really is that face-pinching seems like an improved investigate that he has in addition to his current 3 investigates.

Most of the police have 3 abilities (Investigate + Arrest + Special Ability), so I don't think that's an issue.

Not true, most do not fit into that pattern.

Tome: Special Investigate + Arrest
Chiba: Stake-Out + Arrest
Takagi: Stake-Out + Arrest
Yumi: Investigate + Arrest + Deciding lovers  [But she has investigate 2 anyway which we want to give to Nakamori anyway.]

So only Satô, Shiratori and Megure really have 3 abilities (and the normal number of investigations).
And again: While Shiratoris and Megures house-search might be stronger, it is not the kind of ability you can use every night since it requires information (or a lot of pure luck) so you don't lose the ability for the rest of the game (and be suspended for 2 phases). Face-pinching however gives you information and "failing it"... well, it tells you the target was not disguised and you can use it again the next time.

yes.. but it worth because if the townie that aptxed have a night ability.. there is a change she / he can made a lucky investigation / arrest or anything!.....

and it is balanced right? the gamble will be using 1 more actions or get rid 1 aptx!

I prefer giving the BO the choice of either losing one APTX for sure or risk to let the townie alive for one more phase. Forcing them to have to go for the slow way feels wrong.

[Akonyl]

I actually don't have any issues with the way Nakamori is now. Although I wouldn't mind dropping him down to two investigations to help hide Yumi a bit. Most of the police have 3 abilities (Investigate + Arrest + Special Ability), so I don't think that's an issue.

as I mentioned earlier, I'd have no qualms upping Yumi's investigates to 3, now that she no longer chooses concrete pairings.

They are allowed to both house-search and arrest during the same phase? Well, I would rather change that than adding Nakamori to that list.
Beside... how often do they arrest and house-search during the same phase, even if they are allowed to do that? However Nakamori will always both investigate and face-pinch.

Again: I would rather restrict Megure and Shiratori.
Beside... even when the number of investigations of Nakamori get reduced by 1, he will still be able to use 3 abilities at once.


And no, it is not about how well you handled him. It really is that face-pinching seems like an improved investigate that he has in addition to his current 3 investigates.

it would only be an improved investigate imo if it was changed so that it no longer auto-arrested.

I also don't see what the inherent problem is with people being able to use three abilities at once, it depends on how strong each ability is, and I really don't think it's as powerful as you make it out to be. If we're going by numbers of actions to hand in, why not count investigations as one each, which puts Nakamori at 5, and Akai at 6? It's equally as arbitrary as just counting actions.

Yes, pinching got vermouth, but had commi not been killed quickly, I may have done her in myself as well.

[PT]

as I mentioned earlier, I'd have no qualms upping Yumi's investigates to 3, now that she no longer chooses concrete pairings.

That would work, too. (I have been reading the thread, I promise! Just... not all here today.)

[xpon]

but that will be a win guarantee for the BO in late phase....

[Abs.]

As PT said,

But that's if they even have any left at the end of the round. It really depends on how the BO plays, though. In that case it comes down to strategy throughout the entire game, so I still don't really see a problem with it. If the BO is careful enough with their poisons to still have 2-3 left in the end, then why not let them throw it all at the same person to secure a win?

Remember also that narrowing it down to 2 possible roles takes some doing - it's not as simple as just an observe or just a steal.  The BO pays in order to do narrowing (unless the player is loose lips with his/her role/abilities).

[PT]

Actually, being pinched worked out better for me, because instead of lynching me after finding out I'm disguised, I got arrested and was still able to communicate with the BO. So I don't see the problem with it there.

And yeah, Kid would be stuck in jail, but unless he's randomly pinched on Night 1, he'll at least have a little bit of information to work with, and if Vermouth is killed later, he can at least be trusted, even if there's no way to break him out of jail.

[Abs.]

and if Vermouth is killed later, he can at least be trusted, even if there's no way to break him out of jail.

Abs. will point out "BUT HE COULD STILL BE IRISH!!!!!!!!!1111one"

[xpon]

well then it really suck to be healer or protector... right?

even a detective or police in general will be a lot more save then they!

well..if mafia is played equally, then it not a big problem... but some player always start with -10 or -20 in trust meter while the rest of the player start with 0

[Abs.]

No, because heal/protect counts as the same action when investigating unless I am remembering wrong/the mechanics changed on me while I was distracted

And there's a pretty big pool of healers and protectors

[Akonyl]

Remember also that narrowing it down to 2 possible roles takes some doing - it's not as simple as just an observe or just a steal.  The BO pays in order to do narrowing (unless the player is loose lips with his/her role/abilities).

*remembers a certain round where we barraged yuriko with DB-APTX at the end* :V

Actually, being pinched worked out better for me, because instead of lynching me after finding out I'm disguised, I got arrested and was still able to communicate with the BO. So I don't see the problem with it there.

And yeah, Kid would be stuck in jail, but unless he's randomly pinched on Night 1, he'll at least have a little bit of information to work with, and if Vermouth is killed later, he can at least be trusted, even if there's no way to break him out of jail.

the problem with Dus's round too, where breva was arrested instead of lynched, I figure she was doin the planning at the end there

and that's true about kid, but there's the possibility that the police isn't saying why they arrested criminal X to stay hidden to the criminal possibly *cough*, thus letting akemi or someone claim they were pinched instead, so kid may not be 100% trustable.

[pofa]

I like the idea of reducing Nakamori's investigations to 2, since I still think having three abilities that can all be done at once, one of which is like a super-investigation already, is a little too strong. (I feel a little the same way about Satou's detention, but it's still weaker than face pinch since it gives her no info.) And like someone else said, it would keep Yumi safer if she weren't the only role with 2 investigations.

Also, was the bomber notified of how many policemen were in the game this round?

what about megure and shiratori, then? They also have three abilities they can use in one phase.

I left out house-search because it has such a strong penalty against the player for being used indiscriminately, whereas face pinch and detention don't.

it would only be an improved investigate imo if it was changed so that it no longer auto-arrested.

I'm good with this, though.

As I mentioned earlier, I'd have no qualms upping Yumi's investigates to 3, now that she no longer chooses concrete pairings.

As well as this.