Kogorous Riddle Thread and eworms Deduction Thread

Mr. E · Post by **Mr. E** » June 23rd, 2011, 8:47 pm

Just some random guesses for now:
If it has something to do with names then

Spoiler:

@c-square

Haha, I am in fact married to Ms. Terri Us but she refused to take my last name, saying it was too sissy for her

.

VQ · Post by VQ » June 24th, 2011, 3:02 am

Eworm is taking too long.

Spoiler:

c-square wrote:
VQ wrote: So, no hints? Can we ask yes/no questions?

Spoiler:
The Riddlers' avatars or names are related to the FBI agents names?

Well...

Spoiler:
If the avatars are related, then VQ, you're most likely the spy. After all, your avatar's the only one who's dressed in black!

But maybe it's a trap prepared by Eworm to make you think I'm the spy, while in reality he is the spy, or maybe he is protecting the real spy, that it's you, or maybe I'm the spy after all.

eworm · Post by **eworm** » June 24th, 2011, 4:57 am

Hey, guys, sorry but you just happened to be quite active when it was a night at my place

@ sstimson - you misunderstood, I think you've realised by now. The riddle is about identifying the FBI members and the spy amongst the Riddlers. For example "eworm - James Black" or "c-sqyare - the spy".

@ VQ

Do we need background information about the DC FBI agents to solve the puzzle?

A bit. You may want to remember some manga's chapters they starred in.

The Riddlers' avatars or names are related to the FBI agents names?

Yes, in most cases it's about avatar or name.

If you're going to give me an answer, make it complete - with every person assigned to a role of FBI/the Spy.

red · Post by **red** » June 24th, 2011, 8:04 am

lol ... it's true. I don't really have much of an interest in the brain-frying riddles, sorry 8( I'd take a stab at ones that don't need me to channel Holmes p:

Spoiler:

obviously incomplete ...... I need sleep =n=; also. "Reveal who is one of the Blacks" - gaaaaasp~ James Black is a Black! o: ahahaha kidding. I clearly need some rest; my mind's all over the place

VQ · Post by VQ » June 24th, 2011, 8:01 pm

So what about this:

Spoiler:

That's what I got, but there isn't enough fragments of chaos, so I'm probably wrong.

Can you give us a hint?

eworm · Post by **eworm** » June 25th, 2011, 5:37 am

Close but no cigar.
You got only two wrong. That's kinda like a hint, isn't it. I'll give you another one if this turns out to be too difficult.

sstimson · Post by **sstimson** » June 27th, 2011, 4:12 am

VQ wrote: So what about this:

Spoiler:
red=Akai Shuuichi: Akai can be translated from Japanese to mean red.

c-square=James Black: c-square has an avatar of Mitsuhiko holding a notebook with the silhouette of SH, we all know SH lived in the 221B Baker Street in London and James Black according to DC was born in London, England, in the Marylebone district, the same district where the original Baker Street is located.

VQ=Jodie Starling: Both female and blonde, going by the avatar.

sstimson=Andre Camel: sstimson's avatar is a Lion, an animal like a Camel (lame I know).

Knowing this, we can conclude that Eworm=spy!!

That's what I got, but there isn't enough fragments of chaos, so I'm probably wrong.

Can you give us a hint?

So two are transposed?

How about this

Spoiler:

Yes I going to do it again. Question about Eworms logic

red wrote: thanks :] the others were there too, they just probably didn't get the chance to reply until after I did .... but anyway, here's my riddle:

There were once four people living together in the same house, Albert, Alfred, Alexander and Aloysius. Their occupations were doctor, broker, lawyer and mayor, but not in that order. One day a new person, Bernard, moves in and the neighbour tells him ..... :

"Albert and Aloysius don't get along with the broker. Alfred is related to the lawyer. Albert is on good terms with the mayor and the doctor. Alexander comes and goes very often, so his room is often empty."

Bernard nods his head and thanks the neighbour.
So - who is who? this should be relatively simple :]

eworm wrote:
Spoiler:
Albert is not the doctor nor the mayor (he gets along well with them) nor the broker (they're on bad terms). He's the lawyer.

Alexander is often out, so my guess is he's the doctor.

Aloysius can't be the broker for the same reason as Albert. He seems to be the mayor.

And finally Alfred's the broker.

as this riddle has already been solved I will not put my logic in quotes

Albert is not the broker ... Albert, Alfred, Alexander and Aloysius. Their occupations were doctor, broker, lawyer and mayor, but not in that order. And that statement bolded is where my question lies.

Does that mean that Eworms answer might be wrong since he made Alfred the broker, bur the riddle says not it that order which would seem to suggest he is not the broker.

Back to my logic

Albert is not the broker ( see above ) also Albert and Aloysius don't get along with the broker
a
he is also not the mayor ... Albert is on good terms with the mayor and the doctor
Or is he the Doctor ... same as above
So he is the Lawyer

Next Aloysius
He is not the Lawyer ... Albert is
He, also is not the Broker ... Aloysius don't get along with the broker.
He should also not be the mayor ... Albert, Alfred, Alexander and Aloysius. Their occupations were doctor, broker, lawyer and mayor, but not in that order.
Which would make him the doctor.

Next Alfred
He is not the lawyer ... Albert is ... also Alfred is related to the lawyer
He is not the Doctor ... Aloysius is
He should also not be the broker ... Albert, Alfred, Alexander and Aloysius. Their occupations were doctor, broker, lawyer and mayor, but not in that order.
That would make him the mayor.

Last Alexander
He not the lawyer ... Albert is
He not the Doctor ... Aloysius is
He not the mayor ... Alfred is
That makes him the broker

So as I see it this is the people and their jobs

Albert - Lawyer
Alfred - Mayor
Alexander - Broker
Aloysius - Doctor

Is my logic wrong?

eworm · Post by **eworm** » June 27th, 2011, 3:46 pm

Wrong, sorry.

And the codename Rye was already used, remember? It was Akai.

Also, sstimson, you said something about a great answer to the BFR...? I'm waiting till Friday.
TILL FRIDAY!

sstimson · Post by **sstimson** » June 27th, 2011, 5:14 pm

Sent. Also at least tell me in my guess how many parts were wrong, should either be three or four. And Also you replied before you read my logic to the earier riddle. To you does it look right and how do you interpet the bold part?

eworm · Post by **eworm** » June 28th, 2011, 5:47 am

Hm, I guess by "not in that order" red meant "not necessarily in that order" or "that order doesn't matter for the solution". As simple as that.

Read the deduction. Answer sent. Still waiting till Friday for more - from anyone! Keep trying until you run out of time!

VQ · Post by VQ » June 30th, 2011, 3:07 am

So, if only two are transposed then:

Spoiler:

eworm · Post by **eworm** » June 30th, 2011, 5:22 am

eworm=Andre Camel: eworm supposedly hates physical activity,

Woah, wait, how do you know? MAL?
Anyway, again - no, that's not the correct answer. Think again.

And remember - tomorrow the Brain-Frying Riddle #4 ends at last!

VQ · Post by VQ » June 30th, 2011, 5:50 pm

Then.....

Spoiler:

eworm · Post by **eworm** » July 1st, 2011, 4:26 am

That's a correct answer. Good job figuring out the James Black reasoning. About c-square being Andre Camel:

Spoiler:

Your turn, VQ.

Also, the BFR#4 ends today at last. Don't you go anywhere, the answer can be posted any minute now!

eworm · Post by **eworm** » July 1st, 2011, 7:41 am

BRAIN-FRYING ANSWER #4

You know what the best part of creating these Brain-Frying Riddles is? Imagining the looks on the faces of you reading the answer

In all honesty - the BFR#3 made me feel awesome, but this one took the cake. I'm totally proud. Now you can read the answer and understand why. But first, as always - the Brain-Frying Riddle itself.

Spoiler: The Riddle

The answer:

Spoiler:

Misawa Tomoya wants to kill one of his fellow club members. The questions are: who, why, when and how? The answer to “why?” depends on the answer to “who?” so let's skip these two for now and concentrate on “when?” and “how?”.

THE METHOD(part1)
There are many ways for a human to kill another human, but not all of them can be disguised as accidents or suicides at these circumstances. Stabbing, shooting, strangulation, beating to death... No matter how you look at it, it's a murder, no doubt. There are two ways Tomoya can get away with killing another club member at this trip:

a) murder disguised as a suicide – poisoning or cutting the person's wrists for example. That method would require something supporting a “suicide” theory though, ie. a suicide note or at least a plausible reason for that person to want to die. As much as we know, none of them are that much depressed or have problems that big. It doesn't seem this method is something Tomoya would be able to use on any of his fellow club members.

b) murder disguised as an accident – drowning to be exact. Given there's a big lake nearby, this seems easy. It could be done by Tomoya's “failing to rescue” the drowning person or by him sending a drunk/sleeping/unconscious/drugged person to the center of the lake in a boat and then somehow turn the boat upside down. Making a hole in it would ruin the “accident” façade. Either way, the target in that case could hardly be Goshi, the excellent swimmer.

It's quite safe to assume that Tomoya is going to make his victim drown and make it look like an accident.

THE TIME
After taking a look at the schedule, we can pinpoint several occasions for Tomoya to kill somebody:

I – After the first fishing at the lake:
a) if he does good, he'll be alone with somebody at the lake. He would be able to feign an accident and make that person drown. If that's his plan, the target surely isn't Sanae – who is the worst at fishing and therefore will almost surely be in the dinner-preparing group. As Goshi's skills are not yet known, it's difficult to predict who will be the one checking the lake out with Tomoya.
b) if he does badly, he'll get to prepare the dinner with somebody. It's highly likely it'd be Sanae, the worst at fishing, but if he kills her then, he'll become the main suspect at once – not only did he fish unusually badly, the rest of the club members were at the lake together, so they couldn't have done it. There's also a possibility Tomoya would want to put poison in somebody's dish – but again his bad fishing would be suspicious.

II – During the two-on-two competition:
He could knock out the person he'd pair up with and then push them off the boat feigning an accident. But if you think about it, it's highly likely he'd get paired up with Goshi. Why? Well, Goshi is the newest in the club and the others don't know anything about his fishing skills. It'd be Tomoya's job as the vice-president to take a look at his techniques and check how good he is. Moreover since Sanae always tries to distance herself from her ex-boyfriend Tomoya, she surely wouldn't want to pair up with him. And the best fisherman Tomoya teaming with the veteran Shinichi would seem totally unfair – especially since Goshi could turn out to be horrible at fishing.
That leads us to the conclusion that the teams would almost surely get divided like this: Tomoya & Goshi and Sanae & Shinichi. It's obvious Tomoya wouldn't be able to get people into believing that Goshi who's a great swimmer, suddenly drowned.

III – During the evening:
Trying to murder somebody during the evening would be risky. Unless the club members found something very absorbing to do, chances are they'd get near the lake and notice Tomoya with the victim. And with just four people it'd get noticed if Tomoya went somewhere with somebody and then this somebody was found dead. Besides there's no way to create a good alibi in such circumstances.

IV – During the night:
Yes, during the night, when everybody is asleep. That seems to support the “upside down boat” theory. Placing the victim in the boat and sending them into the middle of the lake with no oars. It'd be wise of Tomoya to drug the victim first or knock them out with a stun-gun. Using alcohol would make it even more accidental-looking.

Yes, Tomoya is probably planning to do it at night.

THE MOTIVE & THE VICTIM(part1)
Let's take a look at the Characters' Hints. Isn't there a statement that strikes you as odd? I'm talking about what Shinichi said about Sanae being different than usual. What's weird about it, you ask? Well – if nobody else noticed anything, how come this daydreaming Aizawa Shinichi did? Even if it's him who's mistaken about his Character Hint, is there some reason why he pays special attention to Sanae? It seems there is. And we can easily guess what it is, right? She's quite a beauty after all.
But that's not all! Why would she stay in the fishing club if she's not that great at fishing and the vice-president's presence bothers her? We can take a guess here too – Shinichi is a popular guy.
(That raises the possibility of them wanting to team up during the two-on-two competition even more!)

As you've probably noticed already, here lies a possible motive of the crime. If Sanae fell in love with Shinichi after joining the club, she might have broken up with Tomoya for that very reason. That way he has a motive to kill Sanae and/or Shinichi – one of the most common motives, jealousy. Even if they don't realise each other's affection.
On the other hand he seems to have absolutely no reason to want Goshi's death. The mangaka helped him when he was in serious trouble a year ago. Tomoya has a reason to be grateful to him but none to hate him or anything.

It seems we've figured out the motive - it's Tomoya's jealousy over Shinichi + Sanae pairing.

THE CLUB MEMBER WHO KNOWS
We agreed it's strange that Shinichi noticed a change in Sanae – but we still don't know what this change is or what's the reason behind it. There's also the conversation she had over the phone. Since it serves as a Character's Hint, it must be important. It seems Sanae was talking with somebody, let's call them X, who's in the hospital. Not only that, X is worried about her dying for some reason.

Now what can be the reason for X's worries? We know this trip is much more dangerous than it seems, but is it possible for X to know about it too? Where could they have learned that from? Well, there's only one possibility – they witnessed Tomoya doing something really suspicious or heard him... Anyway, if X really had discovered Tomoya's plans, they would have become an obstacle for him... And now they're in a hospital. Coincidence? Don't think so, especially after looking at Tomoya's Character Hint. Before the trip began, he had already killed somebody...
Or so he thinks.
There's one person who's mistaken about their Character Hint. What if X actually survived but Tomoya doesn't know about the fact? Immobilised in a hospital, X can do nothing to stop Tomoya – and it seems the police can't make their move yet. Tomoya probably made sure to make his attack look like an accident or suicide. Maybe X is in a state where his statements aren't being taken seriously? Anyway, there's only one thing X could do – and that's to send somebody trusted on that trip and make them stop Tomoya at all costs.

Of course this somebody, let's call them Y, can be either one of the club members or somebody completely different, impersonating one of them. Since we know X stays in touch with Sanae, it can only be her. But the real Akitake Sanae isn't very strong and makes a better target than a rescuer – it seems like this Sanae is not the real one. That fits well with Shinichi's statement that something is different about her.

So what, you ask – we are nowhere closer to the truth. We've just realised there are two more characters working behind the scenes, X and Y. We know nothing about them...! Or at least it seems that way at the first glance. In fact we know enough to realise who they both are.

Remember that only the club members know about the place they were going to? If Y is not a member of the club how did they know where to go? Well, that's simple – because X told them! And that can mean only one thing – X is a member of the fishing club – and not just any member, but the president, Yoshimizu Outa!! That's why he was unable to go with the others. It sure is convenient for Tomoya that Outa has recently started dating Ryouko – that way nobody would find his absence suspicious. It's obvious he'd like to spend some more time with his new girlfriend, right?

Let's summarise the facts a bit: Outa was attacked by Tomoya, but – unbeknownst to him – survived and is now in a hospital. From there he's communicating with Y who's disguised as Sanae and aims to stop Tomoya from killing. We've already realised the two possible targets are Shinichi and Sanae (that means Y).
Y is most likely a woman, otherwise it would be extremely hard for them to impersonate Sanae. It's also probable Y knows Sanae – the voice, the way she moves, it's not something one could imitate otherwise. Moreover Y seems to care for Outa and vice versa. Lastly – Y must have a confidence in her physical skills. She's aiming to stop a criminal, you know.
Now it's just about using your memory and imagination a little: Y is obviously Outa's girlfriend, Anegasaki Ryouko!! Not only is she close with him, not only is she a tomboy (meaning: most likely physically stronger than your average girl) but she has the exact same hobby as Sanae – hiking! Therefore it's not that far-fetched to say the two can know each other, right?

There we have it – two characters from the previous Brain-Frying Riddles are secretly starring in this one too. The “club member who knows about Tomoya planning to kill” is Yoshimizu Outa!

THE VICTIM(part2) & THE METHOD(part2)
We've already come to the conclusion the least probable victim is Aoyamo Goshi. He's an excellent swimmer who won't drown that easily and there is absolutely no motive.
We've also deduced the method partially – Tomoya will probably place the sleeping victim in one of the boats and after sending them into the middle of the lake, make the boat turn upside down. It could be done with a very long rope, string... or fishing line. Goshi noticed that Tomoya prepared a lot of it, remember? To be perfectly certain the victim doesn't wake up, Tomoya will probably use a stun-gun, some sleeping pills and maybe alcohol.
While it's not unheard of for people to wake up in the middle of the night and do something silly while half-asleep, this “accident” could still be suspicious in somebody's eyes. If it was just walking into the wrong tent – it'd be plausible (and quite funny probably). But mistaking an uncomfortable, wooden boat for a tent? Even half-asleep person wouldn't make such a mistake – it'd require a totally asleep person.
A person walking in their sleep.
And we know there is somebody like that – Sanae sometimes do that. It's a well-known fact that it happens even more often when sleeping in a place other different than usual – on a trip for example. As her former boyfriend, Tomoya probably knows about this little quirk of hers.
The person Tomoya's going to kill is Akitake Sanae!
Or rather, though he himself doesn't know about it – Anegasaki Ryouko! With Outa out of the game, is she going to die?!

THE CONCLUSION

a) The victim – who is Tomoya going to kill?
He's going to kill Anegasaki Ryouko thinking it's Akitake Sanae!

b) The time – when is he going to do it?
He's going to do it at night when the others are asleep.

c) The motive – why does he want to kill?
After Sanae dumped him for another guy (Shinichi), he wants to take revenge.

d) The club member who knows – who is this person?
It's Yoshimizu Outa, the club's president.

The finale of the story:

Spoiler:

WWWIt's said that the leader of the group determines the mood. And yet Tomoya didn't let anybody know about what he was planning to do. The hours passed and he was sure nobody suspected anything. Yes, he let them feel at ease, but it's time to kill now. At night, when everybody is asleep.
WWWHe used the fishing line to prepare the trap. One strong pull at the right time and the boat will turn upside-down. With that person in it, drugged with sleeping pills and alcohol. Everything went smoothly. He smiled, watching the boat getting near the middle of the lake. He tightened the hold on the line. Just pull it and they're dead... They deserve it...
WWWFor quite some time now, he could hear a sound of a helicopter flying somewhere close.
WWW“Well, it's nothing”, he thought. “Whoever it is, they won't notice and probably will be gone in a minute.”
WWWAnd yet the sound didn't disappear – on the contrary, it was getting closer. Hidden behind the trees, Tomoya could see the helicopter. He was getting uneasy. What's going on...? Are they suspecting something...?
WWWNo, calm down. It's clearly not a police helicopter. Besides, there's absolutely no way anybody could know about his plan. The only person who got to know is now dead. Even if they notice the boat, they should think somebody's enjoying the night starry sky. With a little luck they'll fly away not to disturb that person. Hopefully the rest of the club members won't wake up because of the machine's noise... Come on, fly away, so I can pull the fishing line and finally kill that person...
WWWThe helicopter stopped in mid-air, the boat just below it. Now, something was clearly wrong. Tomoya clenched his teeth. Who? Who can it be? How come...?!
WWWThey turned on the light on the helicopter and threw a rope ladder. A person started to climb down to the boat. They carefully jumped into it, trying not to shake it too much, and took Tomoya's victim-to-be in their hands.
WWWTomoya couldn't see clearly who it was. Well, it was a man, that's all he could tell. A man who wants to hinder his plan... Should he pull the fishing line and make both of them fall into the water? No, it would accomplish nothing. There was someone else in the helicopter, the pilot. They'd help... Damn! So it's ruined? The plan is ruined!
WWWTomoya let go of the fishing line.
WWWWho was it? Who the hell was it?! It can't be... him, right? He's dead! Yoshimizu Outa is dead!
WWWThe man grabbed the ladder with one hand, holding Sanae with the other. The helicopter moved a bit. Tomoya hid himself within the trees surrounding the lake. The two landed safely on the ground, just a few meters away from where Tomoya was. Coincidence? No way.
WWWThe man gently put sleeping Sanae on the ground and then... took off her wig and mask. What the hell?! It wasn't Sanae at all! It was some totally different girl! Disguise? Impossible... Even he didn't notice a thing! Well, she was clearly avoiding him, so... but still!
WWWThe man who rescued the girl, stood up and Tomoya could finally see him better. It wasn't Outa. Well of course it wasn't! Outa was dead... The man looked much older... Tomoya was almost surprised the old guy managed to do everything he just did.
WWWAnd now the old guy was looking around. He was looking for Tomoya! No way! Gotta escape... But where to... Tomoya started to panic, especially since the man started to go into his direction! He heard him! It's over! The whole life in prison! No, he didn't want that! It was supposed to be a foolproof plan, what went wrong?!
WWWTomoya couldn't run away, paralysed with fear. The man grabbed him, and grew his face close to Tomoya's, almost touching him with his moustache.
WWW“You are going to regret” said Anegasaki Yusuke “ever laying a finger on my daughter!”.

Kogorous Riddle Thread and eworms Deduction Thread

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