Shinichi+Ran or Conan+Ai?

[Kleene Onigiri]

I agree with Girl19 in most of the things she said....
of course there're people who doesn't care about pairings and won't vote in this poll...
but there are also some people who like KazuhaxHeiji,or AokoxKaito,who'll vote for shinran mostly because it's canon and it's the same type of relationship as their favorite couple ( i know many people who would vote for Shinran because it looks like KazuxHeiji)
also some people would vote Shinran because they don't see anything romantic between conan and Ai so they would vote for the most logical pairing...

And what's bad about that? They still choose Shinxran over aixcon, for whatever reason they may have.

I never said it was bad or something like that ...I was just trying to explain the results like others people do...

Oh, it sounded like an accusation, that's it's wrong to vote for such reasons. Sorry then (I thing the "..." at the end made me think that)

[Kor]

Proofs?

Why should I bother if you can't go to the ShinRan thread and provide proofs for your own claims?

And this is where you're wrong because, when someone posts long comments, there are many people reacting to that comment, hence many people start posting comments too. How many times did we see 1 long post generating 10 or more pages of discussions? If you don't know the answer, go check the thread, again.
Also, it's funny how you keep using my argument out of context. You did that with the "objective" thing before, and now you're doing it again. I used the "walls-of-texts" as an argument here to show that the AiCon thread doesn't only have "spamming and off-topic" posts, according to you; I wanted to show that it's one of the threads with the longest on-topic and detailed discussions. Because you wanted to make it sound as a shallow thread, which it definitely isn't.

This wasn't directed at you and you misunderstood what I was trying to say.
Anyway, you're only looking at it from one side. Many posters are being intemidated by long posts and don't want reading/replying them, which is why I don't see it any different from a short post.

1. Once again, and seriosuly, and compared to the ShinRan thread, there's very few spamming.
2. Once again, and seriosuly, and compared to all other threads, there's just as much off-topics.
3. Now you're just proving you didn't really read this:

1) no. There's not.
2) no. There's much more.
3) I did, and these discussions are being repeated every now and then with the exact same things which were said 100 pages ago.
You're just proving that your biased opinion can't tell just how much repeated discussions or off-topicness there is in the AiCon thread.

And where did you see anyone, else than newbies, saying "Let's list the reasons we like AiCon?". It's a good thing you striked your "again" because old members won't just go and say, "Hey, let's list the reasons again". If new members do that, they have reasons:
- They're new.
- They want to share their opinion too.
- They can't check the whole thread to see if they are repeating a discussion or not.

Makes me wonder if you're actually reading the AiCon thread...
it happened alright. If you choose to ignore it, that's your decision.

And why's that?

There's an obvious difference between asking a "forum" and asking someone in person.

LOL, I thought it was already crystal clear that they both vote because it's canon? So you didn't need to prove that point.. However, this doesn't mean they're the same group because, one cares about pairings and the other doesn't, but they both end up voting, and for the canon.

You're the one who said "There are people who don't care, so they obviously vote for Ran" and "there are people who vote automatically for the canon, so they vote for Ran" (and no. from your original post, you said yourself that neither care about the pairing. Just one that doesn't care, and one that votes for the canon) Now however you say that both groups vote for Ran because it's canon. Can't you see some sort of a problem here? The original 3 groups are now down to 2.

1. I didn't play the "what-if" card to solve anything, I used it as an argument to back up my theory that most people would vote for the canon no matter what that canon-pairing is. And this is no prediction, this is obvious. Let's face it, we all know that the canon would win because it has a strong impact on people, because it's set and elaborated by the author himself. So, once again, if AiCon were canon, it'd definitely win.

In theory of pairings, nothing is obvious, and you still don't take all factors into account.

2. I don't agree with this: "If AiCon was canon, it wouldn't make sense story-wise", because if AiCon were canon, Aoyama would know how to make it work, and even better than ShinRan who's now becoming boring (after 16 years of repeated moments).

Try to think more deeply what would happen if AiCon was canon, and btw, I don't mean if AiCon was canon as of this moment, but as of the start, because now after 570 episodes, our minds are set on ShinRan as the canon (at least according to your argument) so it wouldn't make sense to change it. Also, as I stated before, AiCon will become boring JUST LIKE ShinRan over time, not to mention that it wouldn't be a good pairing. It's only hyped by fans such as you because you're allowed to speculate how "awesome" it would be and how "better" it would be, but the man who created ShinRan (which some of you hate so much) wouldn't be able to create something so awesome with a different couple. For the AiCons' sake, the couple should stay just as a hopeless fantasy because otherwise you will all be dissapointed......or maybe not. You're proving to be so biased that even if it was the worst couple ever, you will still like it just because it's AiCon.

3. This "it's non-canon therefore it's more interesting, and we can speculate as much as we want" is a new argument you're using. Just to point out that I never used it before, therefore I don't agree with it. For all I know, if ShinRan were non-canon, I still wouldn't like it.

From what I've seen, some AiCons might disagree (in theory of course. Obviously no one will admit that there's any shred of chance they could like ShinRan)  8)

Good for you. I don't need anyone backing up my statement, moi.

Yeah, I'm sure you still have lots of excuses for why ShinRan wins over AiCon so much.

Thank you. You've just proved my point yourself!
Rarely≠never. Which means it did happen to you to vote in polls you didn't care about.

ehh....hypocrisy, anyone?

Twisting words to help your own side? I thought you were better than that, Kor.

Anyway, sorry for confuzing you, but I was half asleep while writing that post (spent all the night in front of the piano. You know, upcoming tests in drums/flute/piano/improvization/scales/ear-training do require some hours of work) what I meant to write was "I rarely post in polls in this forum, because I don't care much about them and most of the time don't have an opinion regarding the subject"

Rarely≠never. Which means it did happen to you to vote in polls you didn't care about.
My job here is done. My point was proved by the opposite side.
/End.Of.Discussion

I think you forgot what we were discussing about...

[AICHAN]

2. I don't agree with this: "If AiCon was canon, it wouldn't make sense story-wise", because if AiCon were canon, Aoyama would know how to make it work, and even better than ShinRan who's now becoming boring (after 16 years of repeated moments).

Try to think more deeply what would happen if AiCon was canon, and btw, I don't mean if AiCon was canon as of this moment, but as of the start, because now after 570 episodes, our minds are set on ShinRan as the canon (at least according to your argument) so it wouldn't make sense to change it. Also, as I stated before, AiCon will become boring JUST LIKE ShinRan over time, not to mention that it wouldn't be a good pairing. It's only hyped by fans such as you because you're allowed to speculate how "awesome" it would be and how "better" it would be, but the man who created ShinRan (which some of you hate so much) wouldn't be able to create something so awesome with a different couple. For the AiCons' sake, the couple should stay just as a hopeless fantasy because otherwise you will all be dissapointed......or maybe not. You're proving to be so biased that even if it was the worst couple ever, you will still like it just because it's AiCon.

ok,we aren't Gosho,so the "what if "theories are just speculation,that's useless....

I agree with Girl19 in most of the things she said....
of course there're people who doesn't care about pairings and won't vote in this poll...
but there are also some people who like KazuhaxHeiji,or AokoxKaito,who'll vote for shinran mostly because it's canon and it's the same type of relationship as their favorite couple ( i know many people who would vote for Shinran because it looks like KazuxHeiji)
also some people would vote Shinran because they don't see anything romantic between conan and Ai so they would vote for the most logical pairing...

And what's bad about that? They still choose Shinxran over aixcon, for whatever reason they may have.

I never said it was bad or something like that ...I was just trying to explain the results like others people do...

Oh, it sounded like an accusation, that's it's wrong to vote for such reasons. Sorry then (I thing the "..." at the end made me think that)

it's Ok...it wasn't an accusation,don't worry... I'm here here to discuss,not to criticize people's tastes...

[Girl19]

I wasn't going to reply, but I thought I could bother one last time.

Why should I bother if you can't go to the ShinRan thread and provide proofs for your own claims?

Oh please, this is mere excuse. If you can't find proofs, that's your problem, but don't come telling me I didn't. I already gave you examples of what's being discussed in the ShinRan thread, but you chose to ignore them, obviously.

Spoiler:

Fine, for all I know, the ShinRan thread has repeated discussions, which is normal because there's not much to discuss about ShinRan, because their relationship is already set, canon, and it's clear that they love each other and that they'll end up together and have lots of babies and live happily ever after. So what is it to discuss about that? There are only 2 types of discussions possible about ShinRan: either "remembering the ShinRan moments and how lovely they were and how sad it was when Ran cried at the end because Shinichi had to leave her again" type, or the "ShinRan Vs AiCon" one, which can also be found in the AiCon thread, especially in the first pages.

This wasn't directed at you and you misunderstood what I was trying to say.

Your biased comments are directed to us, AiCon fans. You're actually accusing all of us of posting nothing but crap just because 1 or 2 of us posted spam comments. If you're, for some reason, annoyed to see the AiCon thread as one of the longest threads in the forum, then just ignore it. But making it look as a shallow thread while it's full of various discussions and analysis is just low.

Anyway, you're only looking at it from one side. Many posters are being intemidated by long posts and don't want reading/replying them, which is why I don't see it any different from a short post.

Not many posters, just a few, and they admit it. But most users do read long posts and react to them. This is a forum after all, not a chatroom.

1) no. There's not.
2) no. There's much more.
3) I did, and these discussions are being repeated every now and then with the exact same things which were said 100 pages ago.
You're just proving that your biased opinion can't tell just how much repeated discussions or off-topicness there is in the AiCon thread.

Now who's childish and playing games? Fine, we can keep going like this:
1. Yes, there is.
2. No, there's just as much.
3. LOL, I just love it when the biased people fail to see their own biased opinions and call others biased because they can't find solide arguments to "win" the debate. What "same" content? Do you actually read the AiCon thread on a regular basis or do you just read it once in a blue moon and dare giving your so called "not-biased" opinion about it? And if you still can't tell the difference between a re-opened discussion and a repeated one, I don't see why I am even wasting my time with you.

Makes me wonder if you're actually reading the AiCon thread...
it happened alright. If you choose to ignore it, that's your decision.

I loled. Do you mean that I don't read the AiCon thread, and that I just reply to people according to my biased opinions? No wait, that's you alright.

There's an obvious difference between asking a "forum" and asking someone in person.

Oh really? You would know. lol
If there was a difference, you would have explained it already. But you just keep talking about this difference which doesn't exist.

You're the one who said "There are people who don't care, so they obviously vote for Ran" and "there are people who vote automatically for the canon, so they vote for Ran" (and no. from your original post, you said yourself that neither care about the pairing. Just one that doesn't care, and one that votes for the canon) Now however you say that both groups vote for Ran because it's canon. Can't you see some sort of a problem here? The original 3 groups are now down to 2.

Did you really not understand what I said or do you just like twisting words? I said the people who vote for canon are 2 types: the ones who care about pairings and are too narrow-minded to think about non-canonical pairings, and some of the people who don't care about pairings but still vote because they're tempted to vote so they end up voting for the canon because it's obvious and because they won't take the time to think about the non-canonical pairings since they're not interested in pairings to start with. There, my original post about the groups thing still exists, so twisting it is useless.
And, the original 3 groups are now up to 4.

Spoiler:

- The people who vote for AiCon are AiCon fans.
- The people who vote for ShinRan are:

• ShinRan fans
• People who don't care about pairings, so they just vote for the obvious one..

(And just because they vote, it doesn't mean they care about pairings).

• People who care about pairings, but they only vote for the canonical one because, well, it's canon?

(Which doesn't mean they prefer ShinRan, because if Aoyama made AiCon canon, they'd vote for AiCon).

• Some HeijixKazuha and KaitoxAoko fans because it's the same type of relationship

(that is, of course, in case the HeijixKazuha and KaitoxAoko options don't exist in the poll).

In theory of pairings, nothing is obvious, and you still don't take all factors into account.

You are the one who still doesn't take the most important factor into account, i.e. canon.

Try to think more deeply what would happen if AiCon was canon, and btw, I don't mean if AiCon was canon as of this moment, but as of the start, because now after 570 episodes, our minds are set on ShinRan as the canon (at least according to your argument) so it wouldn't make sense to change it. Also, as I stated before, AiCon will become boring JUST LIKE ShinRan over time,

The thing that makes ShinRan, in my opinion, boring, isn't just the fact that it took 16+ years long and it's still static. The problem is the characters themselves and how incompatible they are in my eyes. I said it before and I'm saying it again, I never was fan of ShinRan, not even before Ai appeared, not even when I was 7 or 8 years old dreaming about fairy tales. ShinRan just never moved me. Now even if AiCon were a canon couple since the start, it won't become boring because there actually IS a great interaction between them. Ai and Conan are compatible and never boring, every little AiCon moment just makes me wish for more. There are some couples, in both real life and fiction, who could last for 20+ years and never become boring; AiCon's one of them, which is WHY I'm a fan of the pairing (and not vice versa, meaning: don't tell me I'm a biased fan so I say AiCon can't be boring. It's the other way around: I actually noticed that AiCon is too awesome and can never be boring, THEN I became a fan).

not to mention that it wouldn't be a good pairing.

Of course not a good pairing. A GREAT pairing.

It's only hyped by fans such as you because you're allowed to speculate how "awesome" it would be and how "better" it would be,

And what's wrong with that? Yes, it will surely be awesome and better.
And if you mean I'm just saying/thinking that because it's non-canon and it's all specualtions, let me tell you that I'm not the type to be influenced by canon; meaning I'm different from the people I listed above (the ShinRan voters who aren't ShinRan fans); meaning if AiCon were canon, I would have the same reasons I have now for loving it, and I would support it the same way I do now. You think the AiCon fans are fans of AiCon just because it's not canon, I think you're biased and blind to think so because you can't see the OBVIOUS reasons why we prefer AiCon, and those reasons have nothing to do with the fact that it's non-canon. Also, the fact that we dislike ShinRan has nothing to do with the fact that it's canon.

but the man who created ShinRan (which some of you hate so much)

Now you're just delusional. Who ever said we hated Aoyama? ShinRan is not a good enough reason to hate him, it ain't even worth it. And for your info, as far as I'm concerned, I'm one of his biggest fans and I always defend him in other forums when people critic him. So, wrong catch, sorry.

wouldn't be able to create something so awesome with a different couple. For the AiCons' sake, the couple should stay just as a hopeless fantasy because otherwise you will all be dissapointed......or maybe not.

Not. Trust me on that.
Why I think so? Copied/pasted because I can't repeat myself anymore:

Spoiler:

The thing that makes ShinRan, in my opinion, boring, isn't just the fact that it took 16+ years long and it's still static. The problem is the characters themselves and how incompatible they are in my eyes. I said it before and I'm saying it again, I never was fan of ShinRan, not even before Ai appeared, not even when I was 7 or 8 years old dreaming about fairy tales. ShinRan just never moved me. Now even if AiCon were a canon couple since the start, it won't become boring because there actually IS a great interaction between them. Ai and Conan are compatible and never boring, every little AiCon moment just makes me wish for more. There are some couples, in both real life and fiction, who could last for 20+ years and never become boring; AiCon's one of them, which is WHY I'm a fan of the pairing (and not vice versa, meaning: don't tell me I'm a biased fan so I say AiCon can't be boring. It's the other way around: I actually noticed that AiCon is too awesome and can never be boring, THEN I became a fan).

You're proving to be so biased that even if it was the worst couple ever, you will still like it just because it's AiCon.

Do you realize that what you're saying is illogical? How could I still like AiCon if it were the worst couple ever? You're talking as if I was born an AiCon fan, as if loving AiCon is something taken for granted, as if I love AiCon for no reason. This makes no sense. Do you actually understand what does "being a fan" mean? It means you notice something that catches your attention, you think it's good, you start liking it, THEN you become a fan. It's not the other way around. Loving AiCon took me some time, I noticed their great interaction ever since Ai's first appearance, but I grew to love them as a pairing gradually, as more of their interactions were shown. It's not like I said: "hey, I'll become an AiCon fan, for no reason". That would be ridiculous. I don't see how someone can be fan of something if they don't like it, and I don't see how someone can like something for no reason. If AiCon were the worst couple ever, I wouldn't have loved it and became fan of it to start with.

From what I've seen, some AiCons might disagree (in theory of course. Obviously no one will admit that there's any shred of chance they could like ShinRan)  8)

And you're talking on behalf of people now? Wow, you're not even trying to hide that you're out of arguments. It's no fun.

Yeah, I'm sure you still have lots of excuses for why ShinRan wins over AiCon so much.

I don't need excuses. I already have the 2 other polls which back up my point.

Spoiler:

And my point is, in case you "forget" it, that the reason why ShinRan wins so much here is because there were no other options available, like there was in the other polls. Now there is, which is good, but too late.

Thank you. You've just proved my point yourself!
Rarely≠never. Which means it did happen to you to vote in polls you didn't care about.

ehh....hypocrisy, anyone?

And what does "hypocrisy" have to do with the part you quoted?!

Twisting words to help your own side? I thought you were better than that, Kor.

Anyway, sorry for confuzing you, but I was half asleep while writing that post (spent all the night in front of the piano. You know, upcoming tests in drums/flute/piano/improvization/scales/ear-training do require some hours of work) what I meant to write was "I rarely post in polls in this forum, because I don't care much about them and most of the time don't have an opinion regarding the subject"

Once again, the reply sounds off and doesn't have much to do with the quoted part.

Rarely≠never. Which means it did happen to you to vote in polls you didn't care about.
My job here is done. My point was proved by the opposite side.
/End.Of.Discussion

I think you forgot what we were discussing about...

LMAO, what? I thought we were discussing the fact that even if people don't care about a poll, they can end up voting, sometimes? And you denied that by saying that if people don't care, they never vote? And right after that you said that you, yourself, voted in some polls which you didn't care about? Meaning you proved yourself wrong and myself right?

Spoiler:

I rarely vote in polls which I have no opinion about or don't care for.

Rarely, but you do. So yeah.


----------


And now, I shall leave this "discussion" because it's becoming a little bit too personal.
3 accusations at once? That's new. I'm actually learning things about myself here. So according to Kor:
- I don't read the AiCon thread (so maybe my hundred replies there were typed by a ghost).
- I'm biased (because, apparently, I was born an AiCon fan).
- I hate Aoyama-san (because he made ShinRan canon, wow).

I think I've had enough of silliness. I stated my points clearly, I gave arguments and examples, there's nothing left I could do.

Also, I'm just wondering where are the people who once called me nothing but a "general" AiCon fan, now? Since THEY are the "real" AiCon fans and the "ultimate believers", one would think they'd be the first ones to defend AiCon and its thread. But no, it's just me, a "general" AiCon fan, who's doing all the job. Funny!

Well, that's it. I'm done with discussing anything in this forum. Let's see what the "real" fans are capable of.
As for me, not gonna read what's coming next.
Gonna add this thread to my "threads which ain't worth reading anymore" list.

Good luck!

[James Rye]

Ma ma, clam down Girl19.^^

You know as good as me that there are no *general* or *real* fans of whatever.

That´s just silly talk of some people who wants to make them *special* at the costs of others, so don´t listen to them.

That being said, if people vote for Ranichi (if they may like it or not) it makes them automatically a part of the ranichi-facton cause they made their choice. They could have also vote for Aicon, but they didn´t. If the canon has an big effect on it or not isn´t that important at all. As long as we know why we stnad up for our decision/vote.

[AICHAN]

Wow...
that was as interesting discussion
@Girl19:I already told you to not care about people who called you a "genaral Aicon fan" ...you just proved that you like Aicon  even if you know it will never happen,that's what I call a real fan

[randompi314159]

Yeah, quite interesting to see the discussions here.

[James Rye]

Yeah, quite interesting to see the discussions here.

Then you have to read all 240 pages of the Ai + Conan thread. There were some very interesting discussions/opinions.^^

[AICHAN]

Yeah, quite interesting to see the discussions here.

Then you have to read all 240 pages of the Ai + Conan thread. There were some very interesting discussions/opinions.^^

no,according to some people here,the conan+Ai thread is just full of spamming,off topic posts and repeting discussions...

[Detective Prince]

Hmm I see she's still mad about that...

And I see you people still misunderstood everything....

Well I don't wanna get into another battle right now ( I don't have a lot of time on my hands like you guys) so AiXConan FTW. That's all I gotta say. That's all I need to say anyhow. It's the truth and there's only one truth

and no I don't see how it's a spam message...

[randompi314159]

Yeah, quite interesting to see the discussions here.

Then you have to read all 240 pages of the Ai + Conan thread. There were some very interesting discussions/opinions.^^

Probably, I just gotta find the time to read em

[James Rye]

Yeah, quite interesting to see the discussions here.

Then you have to read all 240 pages of the Ai + Conan thread. There were some very interesting discussions/opinions.^^

Probably, I just gotta find the time to read em

I needed a week and that was when it has something over 100-150 pages. ^^;

[randompi314159]

Yeah, quite interesting to see the discussions here.

Then you have to read all 240 pages of the Ai + Conan thread. There were some very interesting discussions/opinions.^^

Probably, I just gotta find the time to read em

I needed a week and that was when it has something over 100-150 pages. ^^;

I'll just read it a little at a time ^^

[Conia]

- I don't read the AiCon thread (so maybe my hundred replies there were typed by a ghost).

It wasn't me!!
I didn't had your password back then 8)

[bluekaitou1412]

I finally had the time to read what is going on in here.


I, myself, is not an AiCon fan (which I pointed out many times already) but anyone who says that the Ai+Conan thread is trash-- or at least implies that it is-- (Look, it's spam-filled. So what? No-one can't avoid it. The fans are having fun, and in between those spam posts, you can find lots of relevant discussions) got to be kidding.