PT's Botfia Poll #3 (SO and Blamed Actions)

[PT]

As of right now, if Gin kills me and blames Conia for killing me, and then Hayley goes and stakes me out, I'm gonna show up as killed twice.

If Tequila blames Conia for slandering me, but Gin's not even in the game, I'm still gonna show up as slandered for no real reason.

So.... what do you think? Should that be allowed to happen?

[KangarooGirl]

PT, you're starting to make me feel like a terrible person. I've taken advantage of this before too :x :x :x

[Raifuujin]

As I've caught this one in SO before, I think it's very misleading to have blamed actions count as the real thing in most cases. Though the BO have to have some way of making people believe something that's not true, I think it should stay with the investigations. Having an SO show up as two people killing someone, when there's only one BO is bad for everyone, including that one BO. They might not realize that its the blame the SOer got and think there's another BO around, and the town would think they're dealing with two members and be more likely to lynch/arrest towns who have suspicious actions, especially in small games. And I've used the slander blame, but I still think it shouldn't show up in SO.

Thinking about it in real life, I would think people who stake out others would know what really happened to that person, since they see it first hand.

[PT]

PT, you're starting to make me feel like a terrible person. I've taken advantage of this before too :x :x :x

To be fair, I've taken advantage of this one too. Intentionally, to prove a point. But still. V:

[Kleene Onigiri]

Yes.

Why, is that bad? O_o

[PT]

Is it bad if someone shows up to be killed twice on a single stakeout? Seems bad for the BO and the town. Town's gonna know it's blame and BO won't be able to talk themselves out of that.

I dunno. I think it is, but there's a reason this is a poll and not "PT's World Is Law And Must Be Followed."

[blurfbreg]

(In reality, when two people are found to be killing, they probably did it together. )

From the two cases you made, the first one seems awkward for BO (and wouldn't make sense for the purpose that it was meant for), and the second one is quite okay, since you actually made it seem as though it is real.

However, isn't SO be used to discover the oddities of a single person?

I think it should be kept as it is. (although I've only had 3 rounds of MM)

[PT]

SO is used to see what happened to a single person during a night phase.

The way Akobo works, every single action is set up as it's own. So if two people investigate the same person and someone SOs that same person, the results would be "Investigate, Investigate, Observe" (because your own SO always shows up as Observe on the results).

In FM or even in GMed MM games, you'd only get the results of "Investigate" because duplicates + your own SO won't be shown. So the issue of double kills/other actions wouldn't show up in GMed MM games.

Of course, it's a little more complicated when you get into actions that were ONLY blamed, with no real (or BS-faked) actions backing them up... I personally don't even think you should be allowed to blame someone for an action that's not even actually happening. (Blaming Conia for slandering himself when Gin isn't in the game and you're not using the BS to fake a slander on Conia, for example.)

[Raiden]

(although I've only had 3 rounds of MM)

Join in more games with us! \o/

[Akonyl]

The way Akobo works, every single action is set up as it's own. So if two people investigate the same person and someone SOs that same person, the results would be "Investigate, Investigate, Observe" (because your own SO always shows up as Observe on the results).

In FM or even in GMed MM games, you'd only get the results of "Investigate" because duplicates + your own SO won't be shown. So the issue of double kills/other actions wouldn't show up in GMed MM games.

for the record, akobo's stakeout is that way because iirc that is how I had GMed it in the past ("that way" being that I gave people duplicate actions in their SO results). If you don't want duplicates+your stakeout to show up in SO results, that's entirely possible, but put that in a different poll.

[Jecka]

Hmm I may have to think about this for a little

[Kleene Onigiri]

Is it bad if someone shows up to be killed twice on a single stakeout? Seems bad for the BO and the town. Town's gonna know it's blame and BO won't be able to talk themselves out of that.

I dunno. I think it is, but there's a reason this is a poll and not "PT's World Is Law And Must Be Followed."

I didn't encounter that scenario often, so I asked if it's bad.
Tho, wouldn't that be good for town, to know that blame is included? (or does "bad" mean, that it's game wise "bad"? XD)

For slander, blaming slander is supposed to get SOed. Otherwise it doesn't make much sense to blame someone for slander and not letting it get shown. Because that a slander get's investigated isn't so likely I think? Or do people investigate that often?
But that is kinda linked to the other poll with the interrogate. If interrogate isn't in the game, slander won't either I guess? XD

Is seeing 2x kills on SO so overpowered in MM?
Personally I'd go for the single set up, so the actions just show up once. That way you can keep the faked slander/faked actions and you won't have a double kill shown.
Maybe another poll? Or edit that possibility into the poll?

[PT]

Well it's not just slander, that's just the example I threw out there.

Usually when you want slander to show up on SO without actually slandering a person, you FAKE that action, not BLAME for it.

What about steal then? A person shows up on SO as getting stolen from twice (blame + actual steal), but they're only notified of it as one steal, whereas if it was both Akemi and Kid stealing, they'd be told that two people stole from them.

Most people aren't gonna just fake a steal because that's silly when the person won't be notified.

Even just limiting it to 1x per action keyword on the SO wouldn't solve the issue completely.

Example: I'm Anokata. N1, I use the BS to fake a heal on myself and then blame Kleene for attacking me. If Hayley stakes me out, it definitely looks like I was attacked and saved. Town can't tell the difference until I die.

My problem with this is that there wasn't even a FAKED attack on me. It's just me randomly blaming someone for something that didn't happen at all.

This reminds me we need to rework Anokata somehow because that's about the only way he's useful at all. And Irish/Vermy can do all that too.

[Kleene Onigiri]

Example: I'm Anokata. N1, I use the BS to fake a heal on myself and then blame Kleene for attacking me. If Hayley stakes me out, it definitely looks like I was attacked and saved. Town can't tell the difference until I die.

My problem with this is that there wasn't even a FAKED attack on me. It's just me randomly blaming someone for something that didn't happen at all.

Hmmmm.. I see what you mean now.
I don't think it's such a big deal, but I would go for "blamed actions should turn up on SO" now.

[Stopwatch]

I would rather blamed actions show up on SOs really. It can backfire on both sides and I don't really see any problem with it.