Ran's role changed? Other's too?

[baka1412]

Even if you swap their role in the story, i would still vote "Aye" for Shiho..

Unless, if and only if, you swap every single aspect of their characteristics, traits, etc, then i might reconsider my decision..

[kirite]

Omg I just love that comic book parallel fluent-chan!  Very interesting read!

Even if you swap their role in the story, i would still vote "Aye" for Shiho..

Unless, if and only if, you swap every single aspect of their characteristics, traits, etc, then i might reconsider my decision..

Now that I think about it wouldn't a Ran from a B.O. background yet keeps all her current personality traits be really...scary?  Just my opinion xDD.

Anyways just a note for future reference:

Most of us here are only looking at MANGA-CANONVERSE.  OVAs/movies/novels/anime/doujinshis/fanfictions are not written by Gosho and tend to butcher characterisation in a "screw the canon I have plot!1!" way of writing.

[Eve]

Even if you swap their role in the story, i would still vote "Aye" for Shiho..

Unless, if and only if, you swap every single aspect of their characteristics, traits, etc, then i might reconsider my decision..

I agree, I love Ai because of her characteristics and story ^_^ (again I'm not anything offensive, I just said I like Ai role because of those traits of her, so even if her role changed, if those traits are kept, I'd still love her ^_^)

[kkslider5552000]

@Ranger: I completely agree with your Spider-man theory. I've never been a big fan of Mary Jane because she was just so....stereotypical D.I.D....

If ya'll are still claiming Ran is a stereotypical D.I.D. when I've referenced her saving the title character hero and protect herself without his physical help, while you've seen Haibara saved by the title character and explicitly accept his protection then... well... enjoy your biased fanon take on the story.

Conan is a retard for trusting him just because he's a Holmes fan.

Why don't you troll the Haibara/couple threads? I'm trying to be polite and move the "Ran sucks" debates out of the Haibara threads so they can focus on saying how awesome and wonderful Haibara is. Apparently Ran isn't a topic open to discussion at all, just bashing. (And I'm not going {to} chicken out and edit this out this time. {I'll edit out the vulgar epithet, though  ::) ... ::sigh:: and get the attribution right...}

I'm not sure if I should laugh or cry at the fact that you actually took my post seriously.

[AICHAN]

Even if you swap their role in the story, i would still vote "Aye" for Shiho..

Unless, if and only if, you swap every single aspect of their characteristics, traits, etc, then i might reconsider my decision..

I agree, I love Ai because of her characteristics and story ^_^ (again I'm not anything offensive, I just said I like Ai role because of those traits of her, so even if her role changed, if those traits are kept, I'd still love her ^_^)

Same thing for me i like haibara mostly because of her personality,so i can't agree more with you!

@NotSoFluent: i like your analysis^^especially the Ran/Lois Lane comparison you must have taken a lot of time to write all these things!!!

  if that happened, everyone would bash haibara for her haircut..lol "whats up with her haircut?!!! maaan"

LOOOOOOOOOOOL!
well i have to admit that i don't like her haircut(i prefer long hair)but it's not a good enough reason to hate a character

I'll admit that it didn't, but the few posts earlier in the thread (Ran's a bitch, she's only good for fanservice, she's whiny, etc.) definitely carried that air like nothing else.  Without civility and formality, threads about Ran get easily derailed (like a certain thread did; all of that's delated now, but you know which one I'm talking about with the request and the nobody likes her and..oyyy vey~).

What kills me is that Ran fans and Ai fans really can't get along due to shipping nonsense.  Differing opinions are fine, and that's what makes a fandom fun, but expressing your opinions -doesn't- have to be a pissing match.

I like Ran AND Ai, but whenever a thread is made about one or the other, it becomes SO FIERY. Heck, the characters correspond well with one another.  Ai even seems to hold Ran in good respects (after the Halloween incident, she tells Shinichi that "she's stronger than you think she is") and seems more protective/concerned with her since the BO encounter in #42, even reminding her of her sister Akemi at one point. 

I just get frustrated with some lacks of compromise since I actually see some compromise, great discussion and admission to character faults in this very thread.  But this is the Internet, where the 'DIE FOR OUR SHIP' aspect of fandom rages in all media so it becomes a regular and inevitable occurrence.     

well i have to agree with you,it would be WAY better if people were more tolerant about each others opinions,and try to understand others point of view,instead of bashing characters like Ran and Haibara...
(it's always between the Ran fans and Ai fans that the threads turn into a war mostly because of the pairing choices...it's sad,cause the only responsible is Gosho )

[宮野志ä¿]

well i have to agree with you,it would be WAY better if people were more tolerant about each others opinions,and try to understand others point of view,instead of bashing characters like Ran and Haibara...
(it's always between the Ran fans and Ai fans that the threads turn into a war mostly because of the pairing choices...it's sad,cause the only responsible is Gosho )

I agree.... instead of bashing other characters, lets just focus on praising your own favorite character, don't even mention characters you don't like, thus it won't cause such trouble, and hopefully everyone won't take your praising of your character as offensive ... I think

[ranger]

The question is what if Shiho had Rans role? They were childhoodfriends, and Kudo meet Ran as a 7 year old girl. Shiho would have the bath-scenes and Ran in her white coat and that creppy look. If so, would there be more Ran fans?

probably

if that happened, everyone would bash haibara for her haircut..lol "whats up with her haircut?!!! maaan"

It all lies in character, I bet I would like Ran if the roles were switched up, because from what I've observed I always like the character that has a sad past/history...

I think a good example would be John Locke in LOST, hes my fave char because he has such a touching story

actually when I think about it...I'd probably still like Ai even with the role reversal, if we are counting the fact that personalities stay the same, I much prefer Ai's sarcastic attitude over Ran's nice/sensitive/typical anime girl attitude.

Dude, imagine if Ran had ai's personality, that would be sick, sarcasm +karate.

[NotSoFluent]

[quote="宮野志ä¿

[James Rye]

If ya'll are still claiming Ran is a stereotypical D.I.D. when I've referenced her saving the title character hero and protect herself without his physical help, while you've seen Haibara saved by the title character and explicitly accept his protection then... well... enjoy your biased fanon take on the story.
Why don't you troll the Haibara/couple threads? I'm trying to be polite and move the "Ran sucks" debates out of the Haibara threads so they can focus on saying how awesome and wonderful Haibara is. Apparently Ran isn't a topic open to discussion at all, just bashing. (And I'm not going {to} chicken out and edit this out this time. {I'll edit out the vulgar epithet, though  ::) ... ::sigh:: and get the attribution right...}

I'm not sure if I should laugh or cry at the fact that you actually took my post seriously.

Ya´know kksliderandsoon, i think everyone takes your post seriously cause of your avatar.
I mean what´s up with this http://www.tripod.com thing?
Only serious guys would have something like that as a avatar or do you do that for advertisement?

Most of us here are only looking at MANGA-CANONVERSE.  OVAs/movies/novels/anime/doujinshis/fanfictions are [b]not written by Gosho and tend to butcher characterisation in a "screw the canon I have plot!1!" way of writing.[/b]

THIS.  THIS THIS THIS THIS. THANK YOU.  Mix-and-Match media makes these things very, very frustrating;  I mean, the original topic was how the roles are changing in the manga.  Besides, the manga's a lot farther into the story (obviously) than the other things and the movies aren't considered all that canon anyway.
[/quote]

Yeah, it´s about the manga of Gosho-sensei not about some trash movies.

What kills me is that Ran fans and Ai fans really can't get along due to shipping nonsense.  Differing opinions are fine, and that's what makes a fandom fun, but expressing your opinions -doesn't- have to be a pissing match.

So....
How about a cookie match?

[soratothamax]

@Ranger: I completely agree with your Spider-man theory. I've never been a big fan of Mary Jane because she was just so....stereotypical D.I.D....

If ya'll are still claiming Ran is a stereotypical D.I.D. when I've referenced her saving the title character hero and protect herself without his physical help, while you've seen Haibara saved by the title character and explicitly accept his protection then... well... enjoy your biased fanon take on the story.

Conan is a retard for trusting him just because he's a Holmes fan.

Why don't you troll the Haibara/couple threads? I'm trying to be polite and move the "Ran sucks" debates out of the Haibara threads so they can focus on saying how awesome and wonderful Haibara is. Apparently Ran isn't a topic open to discussion at all, just bashing. (And I'm not going {to} chicken out and edit this out this time. {I'll edit out the vulgar epithet, though  ::) ... ::sigh:: and get the attribution right...}

As I've always said, it's not that i don't see Haibara has flaws in development. First off, I think Haibara is a little too "inaccurate" on her BO speculations, when she has been in the BO. I also feel she is going to be the "death-role." Same with Ran.

However, I'm not talking about which character I like. I'm talking about the portrayal of the characters themselves. I love Akai, but I feel they got rid of him quickly so Shinichi could take the spotlight. I love the Detective Boys, but I can't deny they are just taking up space.....

Though Ran has saved numerous characters, those episodes seem forced in just to over-ride the idea that she is meant to be protected by Shinichi. Those episodes seem...to be trying to make Ran important, when in actuality, she's not really. Don't get me wrong, Ran can kick some butt. But i don't think Ran is getting the character role she deserves. She has become a D.I.D. And though Haibara is too, I'm harder on Ran's character because she has been positioned as a "main girl character." With that role she is supposed to have, holds a responsibility that Goshyo has (I've told you before I'm a writer, right? so in classes i've been told this). Goshyo is responsible for making his lead heroine as important as possible to the story without taking her true personality away...but it seems it is getting difficult for Goshyo to find a way to make her important because her true nature has nothing to do with the focus of his plot: the BO and criminal cases. So, he's forced to make these episodes that "show" she is important in some way..when really, in majority of episodes, she will be the D.I.D or the lover....

I feel the same with Ai Haibara. She has become the D.I.D which contradicts her role. However, she is not the main girl character. So I'm not as hard on her as i can expect secondary characters to not be as developed as "main characters." And yet, Haibara is more important and more developed than Ran. That is backwards. So now, Ran appears to be nothing to the story but a lover. It's not bashing Ran, but looking at the facts for what it is. You can't run away from the truth of the character, and what the author is trying to hide.....I mean think about it. How important is Ran, really?

[ranger]

@Ranger: I completely agree with your Spider-man theory. I've never been a big fan of Mary Jane because she was just so....stereotypical D.I.D....

If ya'll are still claiming Ran is a stereotypical D.I.D. when I've referenced her saving the title character hero and protect herself without his physical help, while you've seen Haibara saved by the title character and explicitly accept his protection then... well... enjoy your biased fanon take on the story.

Conan is a retard for trusting him just because he's a Holmes fan.

Why don't you troll the Haibara/couple threads? I'm trying to be polite and move the "Ran sucks" debates out of the Haibara threads so they can focus on saying how awesome and wonderful Haibara is. Apparently Ran isn't a topic open to discussion at all, just bashing. (And I'm not going {to} chicken out and edit this out this time. {I'll edit out the vulgar epithet, though  ... ::sigh:: and get the attribution right...}

As I've always said, it's not that i don't see Haibara has flaws in development. First off, I think Haibara is a little too "inaccurate" on her BO speculations, when she has been in the BO. I also feel she is going to be the "death-role." Same with Ran.

Though Ran has saved numerous characters, those episodes seem forced in just to over-ride the idea that she is meant to be protected by Shinichi. Those episodes seem...to be trying to make Ran important, when in actuality, she's not really. Don't get me wrong, Ran can kick some butt. But i don't think Ran is getting the character role she deserves. She has become a D.I.D. And though Haibara is too, I'm harder on Ran's character because she has been positioned as a "main girl character." With that role she is supposed to have, holds a responsibility that Goshyo has (I've told you before I'm a writer, right? so in classes i've been told this). Goshyo is responsible for making his lead heroine as important as possible to the story without taking her true personality away...but it seems it is getting difficult for Goshyo to find a way to make her important because her true nature has nothing to do with the focus of his plot: the BO and criminal cases. So, he's forced to make these episodes that "show" she is important in some way..when really, in majority of episodes, she will be the D.I.D or the lover....

I feel the same with Ai Haibara. She has become the D.I.D which contradicts her role. However, she is not the main girl character. So I'm not as hard on her as i can expect secondary characters to not be as developed as "main characters." And yet, Haibara is more important and more developed than Ran. That is backwards. So now, Ran appears to be nothing to the story but a lover. It's not bashing Ran, but looking at the facts for what it is. You can't run away from the truth of the character, and what the author is trying to hide.....I mean think about it. How important is Ran, really?

*nods nods

you have a way with words sora, I wish I could analyze/debate as well as you can unfortunately, im super lazy/ not a writer hehe

[
Ya´know kksliderandsoon, i think everyone takes your post seriously cause of your avatar.
I mean what´s up with this http://www.tripod.com thing?
Only serious guys would have something like that as a avatar or do you do that for advertisement?

I dunno whats up with his avatar, I asked him once why it was just a tripod thing, but he said it was working on his computer and I was the one that was having problems : /  I cant detect sarcasm on the internet, so I took his word...it prob works on his, but it doesnt work for anyone else's lol

[soratothamax]

@Not so fluent

I agree with you. people still degrade my RanxEusike belief! And I love them together!

However, though I love that couple, I am not so blind as to accept the flaw in this couple. Same with Ai/Conan. I also see the problem with couples that are already together. I analyze how they appear. Then I weigh out the pros and cons, and find their importance in the story, and analyze a change in character. That's what I do, especially as a writer. I can be very critical of stories (gomen nesai  ) But it is not meant to be an all-out attack on characters or the writer, it is my way of analyzing and predicting how fair a story will be.

It is also the same way with characters for me. I love when characters have flaws. I love when all characters are important to the stories, but I don't mind "normal" characters. In fact, I love them! However, I don't like the "normal" character to be someone who is supposed to be one of the "main hero/heroines" of the story. I feel that can cause that character to be neglected, and I don't want Ran to be neglected. But if she doesn't have any more importance than she does now, she will end up being neglected until the end, and disappear from cases, or end up being.....static.

Now if it was a character that is not meant to be as important, it doesn't matter if they become neglected...as long as they come back eventually. But with Ran in every case, supposedly supposed to be the "main girl character," she ends up taking up space....

[marie07896]

honestly.... i REALLY thought ran's role changed on episode 270...

Spoiler:

it's like she was part of the black org because she knows akai(we didn't know he was a FBI agent...YET)

and i just like to ask one thing... why haibaraXconan?
i mean the amvs are awesome...but is it right to change the girl that waited almost a year?
thats kinda depressing if thats the ending... poor ran...
haha... and im NOT creating a fight with CoAi fans....IT'S ONLY A COMMENT a LATE COMMENT i mean..

[kkslider5552000]

@Ranger: I completely agree with your Spider-man theory. I've never been a big fan of Mary Jane because she was just so....stereotypical D.I.D....

If ya'll are still claiming Ran is a stereotypical D.I.D. when I've referenced her saving the title character hero and protect herself without his physical help, while you've seen Haibara saved by the title character and explicitly accept his protection then... well... enjoy your biased fanon take on the story.

Conan is a retard for trusting him just because he's a Holmes fan.

Why don't you troll the Haibara/couple threads? I'm trying to be polite and move the "Ran sucks" debates out of the Haibara threads so they can focus on saying how awesome and wonderful Haibara is. Apparently Ran isn't a topic open to discussion at all, just bashing. (And I'm not going {to} chicken out and edit this out this time. {I'll edit out the vulgar epithet, though  ::) ... ::sigh:: and get the attribution right...}

I'm not sure if I should laugh or cry at the fact that you actually took my post seriously.

the best part is that the part she quoted makes her post not make any sense

[soratothamax]

honestly.... i REALLY thought ran's role changed on episode 270...

Spoiler:

it's like she was part of the black org because she knows akai(we didn't know he was a FBI agent...YET)

and i just like to ask one thing... why haibaraXconan?
i mean the amvs are awesome...but is it right to change the girl that waited almost a year?
thats kinda depressing if thats the ending... poor ran...
haha... and im NOT creating a fight with CoAi fans....IT'S ONLY A COMMENT a LATE COMMENT i mean..

Well, Ran has been waiting a year, yes, for someone who hasn't even CONFESSED he loves her. They are also NOt dating, so....

I like Ai/Conan because together they are a more interesting pair when they are together. I've never liked Ran/Shinichi together. They've always annoyed me. Reason being....it is too cliche and too obvious. And the same pattern happens all the time, and has been happening for years......A story can change. Love is an unpredictable thing....just like a story