Ai + Conan

[Abs.]

Of course it is about Ayumi. It is alway about Ayumi. When DC is over and Ayumi finally won Conan-kuns affection I will be the one smiling because I knew it all along that Shinichi was a lolicon.

Fixed it for you!  You're welcome! 

[Rellik]

Of course it is about Ayumi. It is alway about Ayumi. When DC is over and Ayumi finally won Conan-kuns affection I will be the one smiling because I knew it all along that Shinichi was a lolicon.

Fixed it for you!  You're welcome!   ;D

that was like so 3 weeks ago since we figured that out 

[Abs.]

Of course it is about Ayumi. It is alway about Ayumi. When DC is over and Ayumi finally won Conan-kuns affection I will be the one smiling because I knew it all along that Shinichi was a lolicon.

Fixed it for you!  You're welcome!   ;D

that was like so 3 weeks ago since we figured that out 

Ah, touché!  Touché!

[Girl19]

But yes, that is my point - it was just made as a joke/ to confuse the viewer and not to have any influence on the story (beside to introduce the "criminal" in the next scene of course). There was no "big masterplan" of Gosho to introduce Ai x Conan (one sided) with that theater play (character level), it was just a joke on the producer/viewer level.

Funny how everytime there is a hint to Haibara's feelings for Conan, you say "It's just a joke".

I think Conan avoided the idea tat she loved him because he was afraid. If he got the truth, that would put him in an awkward position because he said he loved Ran. And when you find out someone you never thought loved you, might possibly love you, it's hard to bring it to the person's attention. He also thinks Haibara is too tough to be "a person in love" which he has said before.

Conan didn't look very afraid to me.
Beside, he had no problem telling his "first love" (the girl who made the cake for the soccer club and had a crush on him) that he was interested in another girl. And he was younger at that time. And he didn't seem to have such a hard time telling it to her when she did, nor did he avoid coming to the point in any way.
That leaves the last part of your conclusion, which I agree on: Haibara is too tough to be "a person in love" or Conan doesn't consider Haibara the type of girl to be in love with him.

1. He had no problem saying that he loved Ran, because he didn't say it directly to Ran, he said it to someone else. And yet, he seemed very shy.
2. You're kinda missing the point here since "soratothamax" didn't say that Conan/Shinichi is afraid to tell his feelings; she said that she thinks Conan avoided to ask Haibara about her feelings for him because he was afraid to be put in an awkward position since he loves Ran. I suggest you re-read "soratothamax" post.

Well, you convinced me that Gosho likes to fool us by making us think about Ai being in love with Conan (and resolve the truth a few pannels later). Please forgive me for not taking them serious. 

You've convinced me that you're blind.

Of course it is about Ayumi. It is alway about Ayumi. When DC is over and Ayumi finally won Conan-kuns affection I will be the one smiling because I knew it all along.

Is this supposed to be another joke?

[Girl19]

The translation that I read only said "looking", not staring. And there are hundrets of reasons to look at someone.

Funny how your translation always seems to be different! DCTP used the verb "to stare":

And there are probably a 100 reasons to look at someone; but to stare at someone, and 10 times a day, there aren't that many.

Well, and the question is did Conan "avoid the do you love me question". as you put it? Or did he completly disregard it because he thinks/knows that Haibara has no feelings for him? I know, Shinichi is pretty dense about love-stuff, but shouldn't he be the person knowing Haibara second-best (after Agasa)?
I think he did that, eliminating the "love" possebility immedeatly - which only kept him wondering why his mother would say something like that. Which lead him to ask the "something on my face"-question.
I guess when he saw Haibaras reaction he came to the same conclusion as I did - his mother was either teasing him or seeing things wrong.

1. I don't think we can freely say that Conan is the second-best to know Haibara, and that the first-best is Agasa; since we don't know Haibara's relationship with other characters (such as Gin who seems to know her very well, or Vermouth, or maybe other characters too).
2. Let's suppose you're right, and that Conan is the second-best to know Haibara (after Agasa). This doesn't mean he would figure out everything about her feelings, especially that she always hides her feelings.
3. Conan didn't disregard the "Do you love me?" question. He was going to ask Haibara that, but at the last moment, and after a long hesitation, he asked "Is there something on my face?" instead. It's an intelligent way to find out about her feelings without directly asking her (because it's awkward to just come out of nowhere and ask someone if they love you).
4. I suggest you (re-)watch this short clip: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6YIH60xVVJQ

Or maybe we are seeing to much in it. And it was really just a joke in the first place and not to be taken seriously. 

You are indeed seeing too much in it. It is obvious to everyone else that Ai has feelings for Conan, but you keep seeing too much in it and trying hard to find silly contrearguments to prove that she isn't and that you're right.

Well, yes it is hard to judge Yukikos character from the few appearances she had. Which doesn't mean she couldn't be exactly like characterized in the AOs.

I didn't say that Yukiko's character is different in the canon episodes compared to the AO's. I said that the AO's always tend to exaggerate.

With whose feelings was she playing? With Conan who didn't take her "Ai-loves-you" serious anyway? Or the "readers feelings" who are on a completly different level?

1. If she was just joking as you're saying, then yes she would be playing with both Haibara's and Conan's feelings.
2. If Conan hadn't taken her statement seriously, he wouldn't even have bothered to ask Haibara.
3. The readers' feelings are NOT in a completely different level. We know very well what's true and what's not. For instance, even though I'm an AiCon fan, I know that Conan doesn't love Haibara but only cares about her. And I know that Haibara loves him but hides it because she knows that he loves Ran. You and your feelings, on the other hand, are on a completely different level because you won't even admit Haibara's obvious feelings, and also because you're obsessing over Ayumi's little crush.

You might think it was no joke. Or a stupid joke. I think it was a joke, a funny joke (The complete scene including Conans question I mean).

1. I know it wasn't a joke.
2. "There are none so blind as those who will not see."

Sorry, must have missed those examples. Can you repeat them again?
Because these two are probably much more able to judge Haibara than Yukiko, since they interact with her daily.

- Ayumi noticing Haibara's feelings for Conan >> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Uq4CfdPfdA
- Mitsuhiko noticing Haibara's feelings for Conan >> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FvQmLDdcMlg


---------------------------------


PS: And just to let you know, I'm done with this leading to nowhere conversation.
I gave heavy evidences of my theory, and your "evidences" don't convince me at all.
End of discussion.

[scineram]

So what if Gosho made Yukiko and even herself say she likes him? This PROVES she is not.

IT IS NOT A LATIN SOAP OPERA, BITCHES!!!!

[Girl19]

BITCHES!!!!

Do you feel superior when using such words?

[scineram]

Sense of humor thou shalt acquire.

[Girl19]

There is good and bad sense of humour.

[Conia]

About the clip of episode 136:
Don't you think it is a little early to say Ai has feelings from Conan? it's like... she has been introduced 7 episodes ago, and she already has feelings for Conan?
It's just weird to me... as many other here, I think Ai loves Conan, but when did this started? I'm confused now ... The only explanation I can think of is Haibara falling for him in episode 129... In other words: Love At First Sight. But, the "Love At First Sight" thing is much less than no compatible with Haibara...

DAMN! someone give me a clue please 

Spoiler:

Another possibility could be that Ai's love had developed throughout the chapters,and in episode 136 she only had "little" feelings for Conan, which may explain why she stares at Conan 10 times a day 200 episodes after...

[Kor]

even though Yukiko referred it to what girls do, as far as I recall, whenever there was a girl I liked, I ended up staring at her unintentionally...I'm still doing it I think...

[ranger]

About the clip of episode 136:
Don't you think it is a little early to say Ai has feelings from Conan? it's like... she has been introduced 7 episodes ago, and she already has feelings for Conan?
It's just weird to me... as many other here, I think Ai loves Conan, but when did this started? I'm confused now ... The only explanation I can think of is Haibara falling for him in episode 129... In other words: Love At First Sight. But, the "Love At First Sight" thing is much less than no compatible with Haibara...

DAMN! someone give me a clue please 

Spoiler:

Another possibility could be that Ai's love had developed throughout the chapters,and in episode 136 she only had "little" feelings for Conan, which may explain why she stares at Conan 10 times a day 200 episodes after...

I always had the assumption that in the first few cases she was introduced, after her 1st appearance, she was merely teasing Conan / the casual flirting.  Slowly however, she takes interest in his deduction abilities and just his overall shinichi-ness.  This is however before she knows about Ran, once she find outs, she gets a bit bitchy because she thought Conan was his, thus the reason why she is always glaring at Ran and ignoring her (at least until 345 when Ran saves Ai, then Ai begins to appreciate her).

Look, as long as Ai doesnt hook up with Genta or Mitsubishi, then i am fine.  I prefer Conan, but I really think it's quite impossible now because of the endless Ran BS.  I will be satisfied with aixokiya, or aixakai (if this was true, DAAAYUUM akai is a dog, going out with both miyano sisters  )

[Schillok]

But yes, that is my point - it was just made as a joke/ to confuse the viewer and not to have any influence on the story (beside to introduce the "criminal" in the next scene of course). There was no "big masterplan" of Gosho to introduce Ai x Conan (one sided) with that theater play (character level), it was just a joke on the producer/viewer level.

Funny how everytime there is a hint to Haibara's feelings for Conan, you say "It's just a joke".

That was 3 times, right? Once this scene where a reader is wondering "What is going on here?" before learning it is a theater play, once the scene with Yukiko preparing for the "Is there something on my face"-scene, and the "something is happening between Conan and Haibara" before we knew the meaning of that sentence a panel later. To you it is "obvious" that this is a hint for Ais love for Conan. For me it is "obvious" it is a joke.

Spoiler:

It is not like I can't show a picture supporting my theory:


Here we have Yukiko at the beginning of that scene - and to me she is in full "tease Shin-chan" mode, as indicated by the blush stripes in her face. At least she is not making the face she would make if she were serious. It also shows the sceptism on Conans face who knows his mother enough to not take her 100% serious now.

Well, you convinced me that Gosho likes to fool us by making us think about Ai being in love with Conan (and resolve the truth a few pannels later). Please forgive me for not taking them serious. 

You've convinced me that you're blind.

If you decide to ignore what I think - you can do so. Just notice that it doesn't makes my arguments invalid, nor will it change my opinion. I don't know how many think the same way I do, but just like you I am convinced that others think the same.

Of course it is about Ayumi. It is alway about Ayumi. When DC is over and Ayumi finally won Conan-kuns affection I will be the one smiling because I knew it all along.

Is this supposed to be another joke?

Yeah, it was. I know, this pairing has close to no chance.

[Kor]

But yes, that is my point - it was just made as a joke/ to confuse the viewer and not to have any influence on the story (beside to introduce the "criminal" in the next scene of course). There was no "big masterplan" of Gosho to introduce Ai x Conan (one sided) with that theater play (character level), it was just a joke on the producer/viewer level.

Funny how everytime there is a hint to Haibara's feelings for Conan, you say "It's just a joke".

That was 3 times, right? Once this scene where a reader is wondering "What is going on here?" before learning it is a theater play, once the scene with Yukiko preparing for the "Is there something on my face"-scene, and the "something is happening between Conan and Haibara" before we knew the meaning of that sentence a panel later. To you it is "obvious" that this is a hint for Ais love for Conan. For me it is "obvious" it is a joke.

Spoiler:

It is not like I can't show a picture supporting my theory:


Here we have Yukiko at the beginning of that scene - and to me she is in full "tease Shin-chan" mode, as indicated by the blush stripes in her face. At least she is not making the face she would make if she were serious. It also shows the sceptism on Conans face who knows his mother enough to not take her 100% serious now.

Well, you convinced me that Gosho likes to fool us by making us think about Ai being in love with Conan (and resolve the truth a few pannels later). Please forgive me for not taking them serious. 

You've convinced me that you're blind.

If you decide to ignore what I think - you can do so. Just notice that it doesn't makes my arguments invalid, nor will it change my opinion. I don't know how many think the same way I do, but just like you I am convinced that others think the same.

Of course it is about Ayumi. It is alway about Ayumi. When DC is over and Ayumi finally won Conan-kuns affection I will be the one smiling because I knew it all along.

Is this supposed to be another joke?

Yeah, it was. I know, this pairing has close to no chance.

Why do "Yukiko teases Conan" can't go together with "Yukiko is serious"? It's not opposing to each other. My mother teased me sometimes but it doesn't mean she wasn't serious. How do you want Yukiko to tell Conan that Haibara has feelings for him then? Should it be in "I'm going to tell you that your father is dead" serious or should it be in "I might be dying" serious?
let's imagine for a moment a scenerio.

Yukiko: you and Ran are on good terms with each other?
Shinichi in an uncaring attitude: yeah, so?
Yukiko smiles (like she does in the picture): then maybe you should ask her out.
Shinichi: What?!

Now, yes. It does seem like a tease, but why shouldn't we also take this seriously? A mother wouldn't be saying such a thing really really really really seriously because such issue shouldn't be THAT serious.

[Schillok]

1. I don't think we can freely say that Conan is the second-best to know Haibara, and that the first-best is Agasa; since we don't know Haibara's relationship with other characters (such as Gin who seems to know her very well, or Vermouth, or maybe other characters too).
2. Let's suppose you're right, and that Conan is the second-best to know Haibara (after Agasa). This doesn't mean he would figure out everything about her feelings, especially that she always hides her feelings.
3. Conan didn't disregard the "Do you love me?" question. He was going to ask Haibara that, but at the last moment, and after a long hesitation, he asked "Is there something on my face?" instead. It's an intelligent way to find out about her feelings without directly asking her (because it's awkward to just come out of nowhere and ask someone if they love you).
4. I suggest you (re-)watch this short clip: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6YIH60xVVJQ

1. Sure. I just wanted to note that Conan should know Haibara much better than Yukiko.
2. Same as before... if Haibara has hidden romantic feelings for Conan, then I don't believe Yukiko would be able to read them. Or differentiate them from things like worry, guilt or facination.
3. Is there any proof for what you are saying? There was no inner monologe, no half-sentence indicating that he wanted to say something else. What proofes that this interpretation is the only valid one?
4. Rewatched it. Nice pacing during the bed-scene to build up tension and then resolve the joke. [My interpretation]

You are indeed seeing too much in it. It is obvious to everyone else that Ai has feelings for Conan, but you keep seeing too much in it and trying hard to find silly contrearguments to prove that she isn't and that you're right.

You claim that it is obvious "everyone else" (but me). I think there are other people who think the same like me, that Ai has no romantic feelings for Conan. I wanted to show why I am thinking that way and what arguments back up my interpretation.
Unless there will be a definite proof who is right - like Gosho giving a clear statement on that question. Or something like Haibaras confession, in your case. Unfortunatelly for me it is hard to prove the non-existance of something outside the realm of mathematics.

I didn't say that Yukiko's character is different in the canon episodes compared to the AO's. I said that the AO's always tend to exaggerate.

Sure, AOs bend the canon regulary. Which is kind of understanable since they need to be as close as possible to the original, but interesting enough for the fans to be watched. I for example like AOs, since I don't know the case beforehand from the manga then. 
But as shown in my last post:

Spoiler:

Yukiko looks like she is joking in the beginning of that scene. Which is why I take anything she said with suspicion.

1. If she was just joking as you're saying, then yes she would be playing with both Haibara's and Conan's feelings.
2. If Conan hadn't taken her statement seriously, he wouldn't even have bothered to ask Haibara.
3. The readers' feelings are NOT in a completely different level. We know very well what's true and what's not. For instance, even though I'm an AiCon fan, I know that Conan doesn't love Haibara but only cares about her. And I know that Haibara loves him but hides it because she knows that he loves Ran. You and your feelings, on the other hand, are on a completely different level because you won't even admit Haibara's obvious feelings, and also because you're obsessing over Ayumi's little crush.

1. Why Haibaras feelings? She doesn't even hear them. And why Conans feelings? He doesn't love Haibara. I don't know how saying: "Hey, it looks like girl A has a crush on you" is playing with anyones feelings.
2. If Conan had taken her statement seriously he wouldn't have said anything. He would observe Haibara to find out if his mother said the truth or not.
3. What I wanted to know is: "Is Yukiko playing with the feelings for the readers?" It was not about how "obvious" Haibaras feelings are, because I know we have no consent in that.
Sure, my obsession for Ayumis crush on Conan influences my motivation to show that Haibara might not be in love with Conan. But is that bias really different from a Ai x Conan fan trying to prove the opposite?

You might think it was no joke. Or a stupid joke. I think it was a joke, a funny joke (The complete scene including Conans question I mean).

1. I know it wasn't a joke.
2. "There are none so blind as those who will not see."

1. Again, what makes you so sure? For me, all I can say that the resolution of the whole scene was funny and - in retrosprospect - the previous scence (Mother teasing Conan) was there to prepare for that moment. DC contains comedic moments, to me this was one of them.
2. Calling me "blind" for not agreeing to your point of view?

- Ayumi noticing Haibara's feelings for Conan >> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Uq4CfdPfdA
- Mitsuhiko noticing Haibara's feelings for Conan >> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FvQmLDdcMlg

Ohh, I liked those scenes. I love the detective boys and these scenes are all about how they see the relationship between Conan and Ai.
Both can't understand the closeness between Conan and Ai (due to the shared secret of their shrinking and since they can talk to each other about things they have to keep secret from the rest of the world) - they know something is different between them, but they can't explain what. Which kind of scares them. Beause Ayumi knows she can't compete with Ai in smartness and maturity, same for Mitsuhiko who knows he can't compete with Conan. Both are afraid that their love interest (Conan or Haibara respectively) might be interested in the more mature competitor - which they have no chance to compete against.
To me Haibara seemed serious and honest when she assured them that there is no romantic conection between her and Conan.