Chekhov's theories about the plot

[WolfenAmphithere]

File 251: Ariade will substitute for the role of the Knight in the school play who will kiss Ran. Araide and Vermouth likely switched at this point as Araide later confesses that he has no idea about what is going on at the school.

Wait, so had Vermouth already made the switch? That means Ran was gonna have a kiss scene with Vermouth O___o;
(and also that Vermouth would have to know that Shinichi was alive, since Ariade would have been informed last-minute that he wouldn't be playing the Black Knight (and would have seen his face during the crime scene later if she didn't already know who the replacement was))

[User 4869]

File 251: Ariade will substitute for the role of the Knight in the school play who will kiss Ran. Araide and Vermouth likely switched at this point as Araide later confesses that he has no idea about what is going on at the school.

Wait, so had Vermouth already made the switch? That means Ran was gonna have a kiss scene with Vermouth O___o;
(and also that Vermouth would have to know that Shinichi was alive, since Ariade would have been informed last-minute that he wouldn't be playing the Black Knight (and would have seen his face during the crime scene later if she didn't already know who the replacement was))

All true. There's even speculation that Vermouth plan to play that part to lure Shinichi out. There's a scene where Sonoko peek behind curtain to watch the play, and Araide is behind her (the scene mean to show the black knight is not Araide).

[User 4869]

It would mean that she knows there is a 'special' relationship between Shinichi and Ran.

Why not? They're together in New York. Why Shinichi's parent invite her there in the first place. And Yukiko even whisper behind Vermouth's back that Ran could be her future Daughter in law. Mind you, this speculation doesn't explain why Vermouth know Shincihi is still alive or why she take interest in him.

[mangaluva]

I think EVERYBODY knows that there's a "special" relationship between Shinichi and Ran- besides, she was being Araide and was around the school a lot, if she didn't know it already five minutes listening to Sonoko and Ran talk would have told her XD I suspect Vermouth knew about the APTX and what it does already, for whatever reason, and that she sort of cares for Shinichi. Maybe stemming back to the thing in New York, maybe not.

[Stopwatch]

I think Vermouth cares about Shinichi partly 'cause of the New York thing, partly 'cause of her being an (ex)friend of Yukiko and also because she seems to have a soft spot for kids(Haibara doesn't count though). It does say in the Teitan Ghost case that everyone (the kids at Rans school) thought that 'the doctor was very kind'(they were talking about when Vermouth was disguised as Araide). As this was repeatedly menioned it shows that Vermouth was being exceptionally nice to them to the point of becoming suspicious if one knew the real Araide. The fact that she is brilliant at acting makes it unlikely that she simply got some characterisation wrong and more likely that perhaps some of her actual personality was showing through. Of course this is Vermouth so we'll probably never know for sure... 

[psyko_stevey_999]

sad as it is I think Vermouth will be a character that remains clouded in obscurity for a while to come. But then again it wouldn't go out of Gosho's character to throw out some seemingly menial event or interaction that gives some serious insight into her character or any of the insufficiently explained characters. Heck i would be fine with just another chapter that had anything to do with the plot as a whole I mean we're goin' on three months here without a seriously relevant manga arc

[WolfenAmphithere]

@psyko: which was the last case you felt was significant? the London one?

[mangaluva]

IIRC, the last plot-related case was the one where Gin nearly shot Kir but somehow didn't even after seeing Scarface Akai? Damn, that feels like a long time ago...

I'd be interested to know what happened to Vermouth. Espcially why she's so fond of kids. She's showing a lot of signs of displaced maternal instinct; in other words, it's highly likely that somewhere in her past was a child (her child? A younger sibling?) that she was immensely fond and protective of, and then something happened.... I'm betting it's involved with the Organization, and if we knew how and what happened to them, we'd know a lot more about Vermouth.

[User 4869]

Thanks for the answers.
I was reading the Four Porsches and I noticed that Prof. Agasa calls Conan by his real name on the phone (like he always does), but they didn't know that Shuichi Akai was hearing their conversation. Add to this fact that Subaru Okiya could be Shuichi Akai (I believe it's true), and also the Kinichi student that loves mysteries (Sonoko and Ran's lie). Considering his detective skills it's almost certain that he knows Conan's true identity. What do you think?

Okiya, who's Akai or not, in the end of paper air-plain case. picture Shinichi and Conan together in his though (and smile to himself).

[WolfenAmphithere]

IIRC, the last plot-related case was the one where Gin nearly shot Kir but somehow didn't even after seeing Scarface Akai? Damn, that feels like a long time ago...

I'd be interested to know what happened to Vermouth. Espcially why she's so fond of kids. She's showing a lot of signs of displaced maternal instinct; in other words, it's highly likely that somewhere in her past was a child (her child? A younger sibling?) that she was immensely fond and protective of, and then something happened.... I'm betting it's involved with the Organization, and if we knew how and what happened to them, we'd know a lot more about Vermouth.

Yes, that was the last BO case. However, Psycho said something about a significant case 3 months ago, and the Red Shirts case was much longer ago than that.

And that's a really good thought about Vermouth, I wonder when we'll get a little more info about her?

...it's almost certain that he knows Conan's true identity.

I'm beginning to think almost everyone knows or is 95% of Conan's identity whether they're admitting it or not, lol. Obvious "no"'s, of course, would be BO members other than Vermouth, the DB (since they don't know Shinichi very well), and Kogoro lol

[WolfenAmphithere]

Ran's just pretending not to suspect him xD

[Pnaq]

Okiya, who's Akai or not, in the end of paper air-plain case. picture Shinichi and Conan together in his though (and smile to himself).

I didn't remember that, another clue that confirms the theory.

I'm beginning to think almost everyone knows or is 95% of Conan's identity whether they're admitting it or not, lol. Obvious "no"'s, of course, would be BO members other than Vermouth, the DB (since they don't know Shinichi very well), and Kogoro lol

Yeah, even I think so.
When Yukiko said that she saw something strange in Ran's smile I think their was a deeper meaning (even though Ran seems to stop suspecting Conan).
Also Takagi in the bomb case asked Conan who he really is, but until now there was no answer. =/

I doubt that Ran MUST suspect at least something, cos she has done it many times before.
And I'm kinda waiting when Takagi asks Conan's true identity again and so...!!!

[kriegpaolo_23]

Okiya, who's Akai or not, in the end of paper air-plain case. picture Shinichi and Conan together in his though (and smile to himself).

I didn't remember that, another clue that confirms the theory.

I'm beginning to think almost everyone knows or is 95% of Conan's identity whether they're admitting it or not, lol. Obvious "no"'s, of course, would be BO members other than Vermouth, the DB (since they don't know Shinichi very well), and Kogoro lol

Yeah, even I think so.
When Yukiko said that she saw something strange in Ran's smile I think their was a deeper meaning (even though Ran seems to stop suspecting Conan).
Also Takagi in the bomb case asked Conan who he really is, but until now there was no answer. =/

Umm...Ran did think that COnan is Shinichi in vol 14, but then smiled and pretended to believe in Yukiko and Conan's cover-up. I am guessing that she likes living with Shinichi/she likes that Shinichi is really really close to her. If you notice Ran's actions from vol 14 until vol 26 you can tell she knows Conan is Shinich. Look at vol 16, when Kaito first appeared. She thought she saw Shinichi on the streets with another girl and then told Kogoro and Conan about it. Conan said to her to "not worry about it" and she must be mistaken. In response, Ran glared at Shinichi with a look.

http://www.mangareader.net/139-8202-3/d ... r-156.html

At the end of that Kaito case, she saw Kaito Kuroba and believes that he was the "Shinichi" she saw. Ran then smiled at Conan "I'm glad, I get it now!"

http://www.mangareader.net/139-8205-10/ ... r-159.html

If you read between volume 14 an 26 you'd see the "hints" that Ran has been believing that Conan = Shinichi. Remember also that in vol 9 she took a bath with Conan, but then in vol 25 rejected to bath with Conan. Because  by then she had believed that Conan = Shinichi.

It all culminates with the Desperate Revival arc where Ran donates her blood to Conan because she knew that Conan = Shinichi and therefore has the same blood tipe as she does. Of course ths prompts Shinichi to pull th double with Ai and fool Ran. As of now Ran believes that Conan and Shinichi are not the same. Which is why when she sent Shnichi text and it reaches Cnan's phone, her initial suspicion is that Shinichi is "having an affair" with another girl and lets messages to his number to go to Conan instead, to prevent "the girl" to see the messages.

http://www.mangareader.net/139-8525-7/d ... r-479.html

Eventually, Ran thought of the possibility that Conan=Shinichi again but was again fooled. Chapter 483.

As of now, Ran definitely doesnt think that Conan=Shinichi as evidenced from her normal reactions to Conan in recnt cases (especially after the Impostor Shinichi arc and the London case. In addition, as evidenced in Chapter 668 when she offered to bath again with Conan.

[Suutashi]

And I'm kinda waiting when Takagi asks Conan's true identity again and so...!!!

Me too, let's hope it will happen one day...

- cut -

You're right, good observational skills!

A question: what happened to the 100 APTX 4869 antidotes that Ai gave to Conan in file 654/655?
We know that the more times he takes them, the less effective they become. Since he asked Ai for other before leaving for London, it probably means that he finished the previous 100. That means that in the London case, the antidote's effect should've lasted very little, but to me it seems that it lasted too much. What do you think?

I think she was joking about that.

[kriegpaolo_23]

I still think that the manga has stretched so far that its beyond ridiculous to me. How Ran and Kogoro can let Conan live at their house for so long without suspicion is ridiculous, and we can go on and on about the other loopholes in the whole series. But nonetheless I have to admit that the cases can be entertaining and the plot is still exciting to follow (even though Gosho really seems to hate his fans). I cant quit tuning in for new Conan chapters because of this. Especially since no one scans Kindaichi

And I dont think Ai is joking when she said that Conan's body can develop anti-bodies to the antidotes and therefore the antidote would not last as long as the previous one. (Ai didnt really give Conan 100 antidotes right? Lol just making sure here)

It is indeed odd though, sometimes the effects seem to last for soo long and other times not so much.